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Rachel--24

Omg...i Might Be On To Something

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I get those red spots-dots to. For the longest time i thought they were bug bites lmao.

Im thinking they are from mold lol. I refuse to think im mercury toxic to. Yes im still in denial lmao

Everyone,

Pray that i have a good day tommorow, My mom wants to come and take the kids school shopping and have an girls day. I so want to be able to enjoy seeing her, i havent seen her in 3 weeks

paula

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Everyone,

Pray that i have a good day tommorow, My mom wants to come and take the kids school shopping and have an girls day. I so want to be able to enjoy seeing her, i havent seen her in 3 weeks

Paula....I'll say a prayer. Enjoy "girls day" with your mom tomorrow. :)

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Is there anything that can be done to remove them?? Anybody know?

I dunno....maybe Carla's light?? :huh:

Thats another thing I can test the light on....the red dots!

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Anyone in the mood for scientificness?? :P

When the methylation cycle isnt working the immune system is dysfunctional, the detoxification system is dysfunctional, the body's ability to heal is reduced and the anti-oxidant system (glutathione, etc.) mal-functions as well.

Faulty methylation and sulfation has an effect on all of these things...

* Detoxification

* Heavy metal elimination

* Digestion

* Immune function

* Cellular/metabolic function

* Gut integrity

* Microbial balance

Here's some info. on getting the methylation cycle up and running....which is what my newest Dr. will be trying to do for me.

The Bio-chemistry.

There are four cornerstones to the methylation cycle and on each cornerstone sit four molecules namely homocysteine, methionine, S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) and S-adenosylhomocysteine. Each of these cycles leads into the next one by means of enzymes.

The important co-factors that allow this to happen are the B vitamins such as folic acid, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6. In converting from S-adenosyl homocysteine into homocysteine, a methyl group is given up and this can be used to stick on to other molecules - hence the name, the methylation cycle.

However there is a particular bio-chemical glitch here. In order for the methylation cycle to work these B vitamins have to be in their activated form, namely methylcobalamin, folinic acid and pyridoxyl-5-phosphate. In order to get cobalamin into methylcobalamin, the methylation cycle has to be working. So if this cycle has crashed completely the body can't make methyl cobalamin in order to get it up and running again.

Since this cycle is so fundamental to other biochemical cycles including trans-sulphuration and folate metabolism, it can't change the vitamin B6, folic acid and cobalamin into the active forms necessary for the methylation cycles to work.

This means that in order to get this cycle up and running initially we have to prime the pump with the activated vitamins, but hopefully once the methylation cycle is up and running it can function on the vitamins in their normal states.

I think this is a "simplified" explanation....but this is basically what my Dr. is gonna do to try to open up that pathway.

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and more....

Methylation is an extremely important process that is essential to our health. It activates brain-signaling molecules and inactivates DNA and RNA (it is how liver cells learn to be different from muscle cells and how we inactivate viruses).

Impairment of the methylation mechanism impairs another process called sulfation. Sulfation is necessary to produce many substances including the protective coating of the digestive tract and the connective tissues of the body.

It is also the source of the most important detoxifying substance in our body, glutathione. This substance is

so important that if its level falls below a certain amount in any cell, that cell will self-destruct. Glutathione

is also the essential mechanism to remove toxic metals from inside the cells.

Another substance, metalothionine, serves a role as guardian preventing toxic metals from gaining entrance

to our body and brain by binding to these metals at the surface of the GI tract and at the blood-brain barrier.

This barrier protects the brain from dangerous substances that may be circulating in our blood stream.

When we study the genetics of autistic children and their parents we see weakness in the methylation,

sulfation, glutathione production and low metalothionine levels. It must be stated though that these

weaknesses would have no negative impact if there were not some environmental insult(s) that play upon

the weaknesses.

So what new environmental toxin has entered our world and caused this epidemic in the past 40 years? The

weight of evidence is falling heavily upon mercury and secondarily on other heavy metals.

Mercury is accepted to be the most toxic non-radioactive element on the planet and it has become a pervasive element in our environment.

In this country alone we dump 200 tons of mercury into the atmosphere every year. This rains back to the ground and eventually finds its way to our waterways and into our fish. More importantly dentists place 100 million silver

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Rachel,

Anyway you can post the link? I am very interested in learning about this.

I was taking the activated forms of b6 & b12 along with other stuff to open up the sulfation pathway. I am thinking this is related? I remember the ND explaining to me why we had to use certain "forms" of the vitamins. And they had to be taken together to help it all work.

I took NAC by itself and had a major reaction. Then took it along with the other vitamins and was fine.

I took this conglomeration (is this a word?) of vitamins for 6 months and now I am on a break. It's probably time for me to start up again.

If I repair the Sulfation cycle does this mean the methylation cycle could still be off? That is something that I never looked into.

Does anyone know what Enula is used for other than parasites? I know its antimicrobial, but is it good against yeast, too?

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I dunno....maybe Carla's light?? :huh:

Thats another thing I can test the light on....the red dots!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mine went away. Mine were the flat kind. They were there a long time, but now they're gone. They flared up and I had more of them when I was treating bart and parasites, then they went away. Once in a while I'll get one but then it will disappear. That was before I got the light, LOL.

Does anyone know what Enula is used for other than parasites? I know its antimicrobial, but is it good against yeast, too?

Primarily for babesia, but it worked well on my parasites, and many on LN mention parasites as well.

Cumanda is the one that is supposed to be good for yeast .... but I think I'd try grapefruit seed extract or oregano oil first, they're cheaper.

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Is there anything that can be done to remove them?? Anybody know?

I don't know about petechia (why oh why can't I remember how to spell that stupid word, lol), but I've read somewhere in my ancient research that they generally don't remove them, at least not surgically because they actually are like little blood blisters...I think they'd bleed to much. I don't remember ever reading anything about any other way of getting rid of them (doesn't mean it doesn't exist...just that I don't remember if it does, lol).

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I'm guessing I'm partially blocked....

I would tend to agree considering that metals are still an issue as well as the infections....even after lengthy treatments. If you're blocked I would imagine that this prevents healing to some extent.

Rachel,

Anyway you can post the link? I am very interested in learning about this.

Yeah...I'll have to look for it later though. I'm only on lunchbreak. :)

I was taking the activated forms of b6 & b12 along with other stuff to open up the sulfation pathway. I am thinking this is related? I remember the ND explaining to me why we had to use certain "forms" of the vitamins. And they had to be taken together to help it all work.

I think its important to know where the "glitches" are...which is why I'm having to take another test. The OAT and the amino acid analysis gives him alot of info.

I dont think its as simple as just taking the stuff....otherwise I wouldnt even be needing these tests. He said it has to be done in a certain order. I know there are other supps. which are used in treating autism...including DMG and TMG. I can see on my diagram of the methylation cycle that besides B6 and B12 there are other things noted including zinc, DMG, TMG, SAMe, glutathione and more.

I'm assuming that zinc is an important cofactor for specific enzymes in the pathway.

I think the tests results are going to give him an idea of which areas are weak.

He's not starting me on anything right now. Once the test results are in and I have my follow up visist I'll probably be starting on the supplements. If I cant tolerate them (which will most likely be the case) then the new voodoo lady will desenstize them so that I'm able to take what I need.

If I repair the Sulfation cycle does this mean the methylation cycle could still be off? That is something that I never looked into.

I dont know that its even possible to correct the sulfation problem if methylation is blocked or impaired. They are connected. You can look at this diagram of the cycle and see how it is connected. http://www.bhare.org/usman.ppt#588,12,Slide 12

If you think it looks complicated the diagram I have from my doctor is even more detailed!

April, have you seen the thread on this topic? I think its in the "related disorders" forum.

Cumanda is the one that is supposed to be good for yeast ....

Of all the cowden herbs I tried I found Cumanda to be the most powerful. Um...maybe thats because I have fungal issues. :P

The other herbs didnt really have an effect. Hmmm....maybe I'll get back on Cumanda...if I can find it. I think I have a whole bottle somewhere.

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Does it have to be filtered through the liver? I know the liver has to filter a lot of hormones and if its blocked then the hormones build up in the body causing toxicity.

I wonder if Naet or acupuncture would help with this. Sounds like you and Rachel are similar.

Yes, I take the T4 and T3 (thyroid hormone) orally, so the liver has to process it. I had actually asked my Naturopath if I could get a thryroid hormone cream so that the liver would not have to process it. I take progesterone cream...but she would really have to research it because she has never seen it. I know that my liver is blocked but I have yet to find a doctor who can figure it out. Maybe I should go to a DAN! doctor.

My naturopath did want to give me a liver enzyme urine test...I have been putting it off because of financial issues and because everytime I take a test, she finds relatively nothing. Almost every test I take, my results are either just out of range, or at the end of the range; so because she is UNimpressed with the results she does nothing to play it safe...but then I go over it with a fine tooth comb and those little things where I am out of range, I use those things as a clue to what's going on . My amino acid test, I was the one who picked up on the cysteine (which was only a little out of range) and my adrenals (were only a little out of range but she didn't feel that was the reason for the thyroid hormone problem).

The more I think about it, it has to be a liver thing because the reaction takes about an hour to an hour and a half for it to kick in.

I did get liver treatments through my acupuncturist last summer and they made me sleep like a baby!!! Maybe I will give him a call too.

Thanks-

Nancy

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Try petechia, plural petechiae.... I see you got a lot of answers already.

I have some of these too.

Sherry

I have them too. They appear in new places and then go away over time. I have a few right now.

Nancy

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Rachel,

Anyway you can post the link? I am very interested in learning about this.

I was taking the activated forms of b6 & b12 along with other stuff to open up the sulfation pathway. I am thinking this is related? I remember the ND explaining to me why we had to use certain "forms" of the vitamins. And they had to be taken together to help it all work.

I took NAC by itself and had a major reaction. Then took it along with the other vitamins and was fine.

I took this conglomeration (is this a word?) of vitamins for 6 months and now I am on a break. It's probably time for me to start up again.

If I repair the Sulfation cycle does this mean the methylation cycle could still be off? That is something that I never looked into.

Hi-

I took an activated B-complex and got palpitations - but this was before i started treating the lyme.

April - what conglomeration of vitamins did you take.

Rachel-

Your explanation in quotes explains why I did not do well on the methyl B12 shots, right, since I could not convert it. That quote about the four pathways...where did you find that?

Nancy

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Primarily for babesia, but it worked well on my parasites, and many on LN mention parasites as well.

Cumanda is the one that is supposed to be good for yeast .... but I think I'd try grapefruit seed extract or oregano oil first, they're cheaper.

Carla and all

I am thinking of doing a version of Cowden protocol as I am having an awful time on ABX. I have not been able to leave the house for a whole week! My stomach is in constant disarray - I neen to slightly cut down on the ABX for now, I see Dr. R on Tuesday and I still have three weeks until Dr. H. I also got candida back - got the sore on my mouth...I started taking saccaromyces along with the ProBio and am cutting out most starches...

In the meantime, I thought I would slowly work up on the Cowden protocol (assuming that I am going to ween off the ABX). What I want to do is introduce one tincture at a time..so Cumanda or Samento first, wait a couple/few weeks, then Cumanda or Samento, then Enula and all along do the Burbur or the Parsley and Zeolite...eventually I would rotate Cumanda with the Quina...

If I were to guess, my biggest problem of the three, right now, is the Babesia. I took a half day break from the Mepron and Zith (for my poor tummy), I got so weak that I couldn't get out of bed, so they are alive and reproducing like crazy. Even with taking the Artemisinin, nothing is killing those suckers like the ABX...

Will I make the babs worse by eventually stopping the ABX...in other words, should I have not started the ABX if I don't think I can tolerate them long term?

Another option... :huh:

I could try an anti-parisitic that my Naturopath sent me, start building up on that which will take a few weeks because the ideal dose is 60 drops 4 times a day. Do this formula that I have already paid for!!! which has P'au Darco, two kinds of Artemisinin, Episodia, Garlic, Gentia (sp?), Clove, Ginger, Wormwood and Golden seal. And then, continue Steven Buhner's protocol which I am now, but I feel is doing nothing for the Babs or the neurological stuff.

Any thoughts? I am running low on the herbs I was taking from Steven Buhner's protocol and I need to reorder, but don't have a game plan yet.

Any thoughts? Any one? Bueller? Bueller? :P

Nancy

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Nancy, starting Cowden is a good idea especially since you will be seeing Dr. H, who likes Cowden. Here is the schedule of how to take the drops. http://www.bionatus.com/nutramedix/pages/protocols.html

From my experience, I would NOT stop the Mepron/Zith. I declined quickly off of it. Try taking Prilosec, it helps me. Also take both meds on a full stomach. If you can't tolerate the Zith (which is the common culprit of the stomach issues), you might try my schedule - Three days, 500 mg, once daily, then a four day rest (at least until you see Dr. H). Or ask to be put on Biaxin instead.

You ARE going to feel bad starting treatment. :( Eventually you will start feeling better. See if you can get a Nystatin script for the yeast. I feel worse within a couple days after stopping Mepron. The reason is that the babesia comes back quicker than the Lyme.

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Yes, I take the T4 and T3 (thyroid hormone) orally, so the liver has to process it. I had actually asked my Naturopath if I could get a thryroid hormone cream so that the liver would not have to process it. I take progesterone cream...but she would really have to research it because she has never seen it. I know that my liver is blocked but I have yet to find a doctor who can figure it out. Maybe I should go to a DAN! doctor.

Hormones (including thyroid) are detoxified through sulfation....regardless of whether they're taken orally or produced naturally by the thyroid gland.

Sulfation is an important mechanism for regulating the biological activity of numerous hormones and neurotransmitters in man.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would try desensitization first...to see if that helps. I havent ever heard of a thyroid cream.

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My naturopath did want to give me a liver enzyme urine test...I have been putting it off because of financial issues and because everytime I take a test, she finds relatively nothing. Almost every test I take, my results are either just out of range, or at the end of the range; so because she is UNimpressed with the results she does nothing to play it safe...

It depends on the type of testing you're doing. You have to get the tests which are specific to your problems if you want something to show up. For the first 3 years I had a TON of bloodwork done, not to mention the MRI, CT scans, x-rays, ultrasounds, bariums, endoscopy, colonoscopy, etc. None of these tests were very helpful and all of them (with the exception of ultrasound) found nothing.

Actually, despite everything I was going through I was constantly told that I'm the picture of perfect health.....based on the lab results showing absolutely nothing out of the norm.

If you suspect problems with detoxification...and specifically blocked methylation/sulfation....you'll need to see someone who specializes in that. Your best bet would be someone who's treating Autism....like a DAN! doctor....but preferably someone who is knowledgeable about everything involved....including heavy metals and chronic infections.

If someone with chronic Lyme doesnt see an LLMD...they probably wont get very far. Its the same thing with this issue....you have to see someone who is trained for it. You need the proper tests and also someone who knows how to interpret them.

Someone on another thread took offense to this....because I'm saying that without the right tests and without the right Dr.'s....you dont get very far. They felt that these things arent necessary. Personally, I feel very strongly that they are necessary. Testing is really important....I've done lots of it and when things are complicated I dont think its possible to get the full picture without having investigated all of the possibilities.

I have always been pretty gung-ho over testing....but only if the test is actually going to help me. If its not getting to the root of the problem I'm usually not that interested.

I remember reading a story about how the parents of an autistic child walked into a clinic and requested that their child have EVERY test run. The Dr. told them that it would cost alot of money to do that....and some tests may not be necessary. They didnt care...they wanted every test. They got every test...took all that info. and got their son treated. In less then two years that severely autistic child was no longer autistic.

Obviously, most of us cant afford to do it that way. However, if we are in-tune with our bodies and have a good idea of where the problems may lie....we can research those things and also which tests are available to give us a closer look. As for methylation/sulfation and the biomedical testing/treatments available...the vast majority of info. is with regards to autism. This is where all of the research is being done. Even though the symptoms arent identical (children are more severely affected) the underlying issues can be very similar.

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Had a really good day. I even got to see my friends new 10 day old baby. She is the cutest thing ever. I have baby fever now tho.

Will catch up on post later, i just skimmed over them lol

paula

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Rachel-

Your explanation in quotes explains why I did not do well on the methyl B12 shots, right, since I could not convert it. That quote about the four pathways...where did you find that?

That quote came from this page... http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=401

Heres more info.

They found that glutathione was also depleted in autistic children, that this was associated with a partial block in the methylation cycle (also called the methionine cycle), that this partial block was associated with genetic variations in the genes for certain enzymes and other proteins associated with the sulfur metabolism, and that it interfered with the synthesis of glutathione. They also found that by using certain supplements (methylcobalamin, folinic acid and trimethylglycine) they could lift the block in the methylation cycle and restore the glutathione level.

It appears that genetically susceptible persons are unable to maintain normal glutathione levels when the total demand for it is high, and that once glutathione drops sufficiently in a genetically susceptible person, the sulfur metabolism becomes disrupted.

In many cases the methylation cycle (part of the sulfur metabolism) becomes partially blocked, and the result can be a depletion of some or all of several important sulfur-containing metabolites, including S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), cysteine, glutathione, taurine and sulfate. A vicious circle is thus formed, and the depletion in these metabolites causes an avalanche of pathogenesis, since they all have very important functions in the body.

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/cont...igue%20Syndrome

Mercury and other heavy metals can interrupt the process of methylation...preventing the body from producing glutathione. For those of us who may be genetically susceptible....this interruption can occur at very low levels of exposure.

Anna (my BioSET lady) had told me that if I had had these exposures at a very young age I would have almost certainly been autistic. I believe she must have been right about this. Fortunately, I wasnt exposed to the number of vaccines that kids today are exposed to.

and one more page...

Treatment is directed at correcting the metabolic impairment involving methylation. Key cofactors including betaine, folinic acid and methylcobalamin can be supplemented to support deficient pathways and improve ASD symptoms.

Standard laboratory tests are of limited use in assessing need for supplementation, since the issue is more with a functional metabolic imbalance, rather than a classic vitamin deficiency.

http://www.drbratt.com/files/Treatment_of_...cits_in_ASD.doc

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Hi-

I took an activated B-complex and got palpitations - but this was before i started treating the lyme.

April - what conglomeration of vitamins did you take.

Rachel-

Your explanation in quotes explains why I did not do well on the methyl B12 shots, right, since I could not convert it. That quote about the four pathways...where did you find that?

Nancy

Nancy,

It sounds like your situation is more complicated than mine was.

I took Activated b6, folic acid, b12 shots, NAC, L- Glutamine, and Molybdenum. It has definately worked for me. The testing I had was the Liver Detoxification profile by Genova Diag.

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did you guys see that post? Someone named KAG posted real quick saying all her posts were being deleted and then her posts were gone all of a sudden.

Very wierd.

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did you guys see that post? Someone named KAG posted real quick saying all her posts were being deleted and then her posts were gone all of a sudden.

Very wierd.

It was regarding a controversial topic posted in another forum...nothing to do with this thread (or anyone posting in this thread)...and obviously WAY off topic and inappropriate. She only posted here because of the size of the thread and the amount of views.

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