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tsomo

How Many Ppm Make Something 'gluten Free'?

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My understanding is that if something has under 200ppm it can be labeled as gluten free. At least this is the law in Canada and I believe its true for the U.S. also. I can't begin to describe how retarded that logic is, however, there have been numerous times I have gotten contamination from a product claiming to be gluten free. Only to discover after investigating that the product may contain up to 200 ppm of gluten.

I dont believe anyone anymore who says their product is gluten free. With the exception of those who use testing for less than 20 ppm which is I think the most sensitive test there is.

Does anyone else here react to this amount?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills :)

Tsomo

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As far as I know, in the states it hasn't been defined yet.

I consider something that has no gluten to be gluten-free ... but maybe I'm just not as smart as those making the laws. <_<


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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There are no laws regarding gluten-free in the US, there's not even a definition. There will be laws on the books by 2008. The european definition is the Codex standard of 200ppm.


Alright, don't worry even if things end up a bit too heavy

We'll all float on, alright

Well we'll float on good news is on the way...

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There are no laws regarding gluten-free in the US, there's not even a definition. There will be laws on the books by 2008. The european definition is the Codex standard of 200ppm.

Does this thought worry anyone else? Do you think that current "gluten free" products from companies that have gluten products will be less safe?


"But then, in all honesty, if scientists don't play god, who will?"

- James Watson

My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.

- Ashleigh Brilliant

Leap, and the net will appear.

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Guest dreams25

Hi In answer to your question about gluten in the gluten free products here in Australia we have very strict guidelines, for a product to be named gluten free has to contain no detectable gluten.

The level of detection for the test to measure gluten is 0.0005% (ie. 5 parts per million)

The food standards code in this country is pretty strict so i'm finding most of the products gluten free here carry the 0% of gluten in them.

The food standards code also makes provision for foods to be lablelled as low gluten. If the gluten content is less than 0.02% (ie. 200 parts per million)

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As mentioned by others, there is no definition of "gluten free" in the US. Codex has a couple of different standards, depending on whether the item in question is naturally free of gluten, or has been processed in a manner that removes most of the gluten.

Canada's rule is not based on ppm. Actually, there are two regulations:

Food and Drug Regulation B.24.018

No person shall label, package, sell or advertise a food in a manner likely to create an impression that it is gluten-free unless the food does not contain wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye or triticale or any part thereof.

Food and Drug Regulation B.24.019

The label of a food that is labelled, packaged, sold or advertised as "gluten-free" shall carry the following information, per serving of stated size of the food:

( a ) the energy value of the food, expressed in Calories (Calories or Cal) and kilojoules (kilojoules or kJ) and;

( b ) the protein, fat and carbohydrate content of the food, expressed in grams.

For enforcement purposes, when a test is needed, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) uses an ELISA test which can detect 20 ppm, but this is a limitation of the test itself, not an approved level of gluten. The words "any part thereof" in the first regulation prohibit even those parts of the grains in question which are not proteins.

[in my opinion, rule B.24.019 is completely irrelevant to the matter, and serves only to prevent things like apples and milk being sold as "gluten-free." Who cares?]

In Canada, gluten free really means gluten free. :)


Peter

Diagnosis by biopsy of practically non-existent villi; gluten-free since July 2000. I was retested five years later and the biopsy was normal. You can beat this disease!

Type 1 (autoimmune) diabetes diagnosed in March 1986

Markham, Ontario (borders on Toronto)

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator since 2007

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I can't begin to describe how retarded that logic is, however, there have been numerous times I have gotten contamination from a product claiming to be gluten free. Only to discover after investigating that the product may contain up to 200 ppm of gluten.

Tsomo

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. The only "gluten-free" foods that I've found to consistently keep me well, are those that are from dedicated facilities...Kinnikinnick...Enjoy Life....whoever makes those EnviroKidz products, etc. I've researched and those stick to the less than 20 ppm. I agree, 200 ppm is TOO MUCH GLUTEN for me. The proof is in the pudding if you experience the symptoms (or not) and THEN research and uncover the reason behind the undeniable pattern...less than 20 ppm, never sick; 200 ppm allowed, often sick.

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As mentioned by others, there is no definition of "gluten free" in the US. Codex has a couple of different standards, depending on whether the item in question is naturally free of gluten, or has been processed in a manner that removes most of the gluten.

Canada's rule is not based on ppm. Actually, there are two regulations:

Food and Drug Regulation B.24.018

No person shall label, package, sell or advertise a food in a manner likely to create an impression that it is gluten-free unless the food does not contain wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye or triticale or any part thereof.

Food and Drug Regulation B.24.019

The label of a food that is labelled, packaged, sold or advertised as "gluten-free" shall carry the following information, per serving of stated size of the food:

( a ) the energy value of the food, expressed in Calories (Calories or Cal) and kilojoules (kilojoules or kJ) and;

( b ) the protein, fat and carbohydrate content of the food, expressed in grams.

For enforcement purposes, when a test is needed, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) uses an ELISA test which can detect 20 ppm, but this is a limitation of the test itself, not an approved level of gluten. The words "any part thereof" in the first regulation prohibit even those parts of the grains in question which are not proteins.

[in my opinion, rule B.24.019 is completely irrelevant to the matter, and serves only to prevent things like apples and milk being sold as "gluten-free." Who cares?]

In Canada, gluten free really means gluten free. :)

Agree completely....... I even wish that they would label apples and stuff gluten-free just to help confused noobies.

The codex standard itself is VERY bizarre.

First off its NOT a European standard its a WHO standard and its completely optional. As it happens the board has representatives from Canada and the US but the EU only has a single one so its not European .....I just say this because its important how its viewed. The US and Canada have far more influence than any EU nation and together twice that of the EU as a whole.

The second thing is it is done with and funded by food manufacturers, it is not a independent organisation.

The most bizarre aspect is similar to rule B.24.019 .. but it goes further.

A literal intepretation (and I can't see any other way to interpret this kind of document) is a real corn tortilla cannot be labelled gluten free BUT if you add some wheat starch to the corn flour or even some pure gluten it can be so long as the total isn't more than 200ppm (actually expressed as mg/l dry matter total nitrogen)

Someone tell me this isn't crazy!

You can only call a product which is naturally gluten free "gluten free" by adding gluten or an item that normally contains gluten.

Lastly, 20ppm is the detection limit for the ELISA test which is cheap... GC-MS or LC-MS would be able to detect it down to ppb levels.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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You can only call a product which is naturally gluten free "gluten free" by adding gluten or an item that normally contains gluten.

Maybe someone who's more knowledgeable about history can tell me, at what point in time did lawmakers decide logic was irrelevant?


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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Maybe someone who's more knowledgeable about history can tell me, at what point in time did lawmakers decide logic was irrelevant?

I used to work for a company who had a policy on eMail which states "rough translation"

In order to get a company eMail account the employee must send an email from their company email to xxx@yyy.com giving there employee number and email address of their direct superior.

I actually thought whomever wrote this must be a complete idiot till I met them.

They tried 5 times to tell the person telling them to write this it was illogical BUT on the 5th time they were told that they would receive a written warning letter if they refused to write what they had been told and put thier name on it.

Actually an old college (different company) had a sign on his wall... "A camel is a horse designed by comitee"


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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Guest nini

since we've been told that a single molecule of gluten is enough to cause damage then anything that has more than ONE MOLECULE can not be considered gluten free

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Nini, I've always heard that it was 1/49th of a slice of bread needed to cause an auto-immune reaction that affects villi.

I know that some people are very sensitive, and I'm wondering where I can read about the one molecule info. Ty has no outward symptoms, and I'm a lot more concerned about cc than his dad is. Dad is very careful preparing food, but thinks nothing of having a common chip bowl where people eating gluten buns are sharing the chip bowl with Ty. I always give him a separate bowl and depending on his mood, I sometimes get an eye-rolling do-you-really-think-that's-necessary speech. Well, obviously I think it's necessary or I wouldn't be doing it.

If you have easy access to that info, will you please pass it along so I can have my husband read it?

Thanks.


Linda, Mom to Ty (11 years old)

Ty was diagnosed by blood test June 7/05

biopsy Aug 11/05, diagnosis confirmed Aug 18/05

Mom, Dad and big brother Celiac-free.

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Maybe someone who's more knowledgeable about history can tell me, at what point in time did lawmakers decide logic was irrelevant?

Around the same time humans started walking upright. :rolleyes:


Alright, don't worry even if things end up a bit too heavy

We'll all float on, alright

Well we'll float on good news is on the way...

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Nini, I've always heard that it was 1/49th of a slice of bread needed to cause an auto-immune reaction that affects villi.

I know that some people are very sensitive, and I'm wondering where I can read about the one molecule info. Ty has no outward symptoms, and I'm a lot more concerned about cc than his dad is. Dad is very careful preparing food, but thinks nothing of having a common chip bowl where people eating gluten buns are sharing the chip bowl with Ty. I always give him a separate bowl and depending on his mood, I sometimes get an eye-rolling do-you-really-think-that's-necessary speech. Well, obviously I think it's necessary or I wouldn't be doing it.

If you have easy access to that info, will you please pass it along so I can have my husband read it?

Thanks.

Well if a T-cell detects it then it starts the whole process. Chance is it won't but 1 molecule is ... minicule/a lot .. really really small.... a single crumb contains millions so its best to just think the tiniest amount you can imagine then divide that by 100.

the 1/49th thing is really old. Its just the how much to eat to get a biopsy if I remember.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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the 1/49th thing is really old. Its just the how much to eat to get a biopsy if I remember.

I think the 1/49th came from a test they did of celiacs and this is the amount they gave them and they saw damage from it. The point of the test, I believe, was to show even a little causes visible damage, I don't think it was the purpose of the test to show how much or how little.


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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Agree completely....... I even wish that they would label apples and stuff gluten-free just to help confused noobies.

The codex standard itself is VERY bizarre.

First off its NOT a European standard its a WHO standard and its completely optional. As it happens the board has representatives from Canada and the US but the EU only has a single one so its not European .....I just say this because its important how its viewed. The US and Canada have far more influence than any EU nation and together twice that of the EU as a whole.

The second thing is it is done with and funded by food manufacturers, it is not a independent organisation.

The most bizarre aspect is similar to rule B.24.019 .. but it goes further.

A literal intepretation (and I can't see any other way to interpret this kind of document) is a real corn tortilla cannot be labelled gluten free BUT if you add some wheat starch to the corn flour or even some pure gluten it can be so long as the total isn't more than 200ppm (actually expressed as mg/l dry matter total nitrogen)

Someone tell me this isn't crazy!

You can only call a product which is naturally gluten free "gluten free" by adding gluten or an item that normally contains gluten.

Lastly, 20ppm is the detection limit for the ELISA test which is cheap... GC-MS or LC-MS would be able to detect it down to ppb levels.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly....

I buy corn tortilla chips with the only ingredients being corn, lime and oil. However, they are lableled gluten free. Does this mean, in order to put gluten free on the package they have to add a little gluten to the mix?

So I am better off buying corn tortilla chips with corn, lime and oil, but doesn't say gluten free on the label.

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. . . Does this mean, in order to put gluten free on the package they have to add a little gluten to the mix?. .

So I am better off buying corn tortilla chips with corn, lime and oil, but doesn't say gluten free on the label.

I think the idea was to stop marketers from putting a gluten-free label on everything - even those foods which never contained gluten, apples etc. - but "ideas" and "laws" have never played well together.

The codex(s) only apply outside the US. So it depends on where you live.

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