What Is Your Opinion?

[e&j0304]

This came up on another thread and I'm interested. I have a son who was never diagnosed. He had negative blood tests, biopsy and was even negative through Enterolab. He was diagnosed with "toddler diarrhea" and since my dd was already on the gluten-free diet, we put him on it as well. His diarrhea cleared up.

Last Tuesday he got into some regular pretzels. He ate A LOT of them. Within a few hours he had spiked a fever, was vomiting and had diarrhea. He was sick for about 4-5 days. We are unsure if it was the pretzels or if he just came down with the flu and it was unfortunate timing with the little "gluten challenge." He is still having diarrhea and it has now been almost one full week. The thing that makes me think flu was the fever. He got a really high one and at its worst his rectal temp was 105.9 (no typo).

So what do you all think? Can a person who does not have a gluten intolerance develop one if kept off gluten? I want to be able to send my son to school on a "normal" diet if possible. I am planning on sending him to a Mother's Day Out program starting in January. I guess we will have to challenge this again in the summer when it isn't cold and flu season. I hate to make him sensitive if he doesn't have a problem with it. Do we need to introduce it slowly if we do it again?

Thanks for any thoughts. I have thought about this many times before and wanted to ask, so now I am!

Thanks!

Shannon

[Ursa Major]

Shannon, since your son wasn't exposed to gluten for long when tested, and with having 'toddler diarrhea' (which is a terrible term, as that is NEVER normal), I expect that he is intolerant to gluten, despite all the negative tests.

The evidence is his diarrhea clearing up on the gluten-free diet. It is entirely possible that his fever, flu-like symptoms and diarrhea were caused by the pretzels. Especially because it sounds like he ate a lot of them.

You know, poisoning can cause terribly high fevers. In fact, the only time your body's built-in 'security mechanism' that stops overheating to such a degree that it could kill you, is when you're poisoned. And of course, gluten is a poison to people who are intolerant to it (and your son may even be allergic to gluten, who knows). So, I really think it could cause a fever.

Be careful when you try another gluten challenge with your son, don't give him much. Personally, I wouldn't do it, I'd be scared to.

And no, I really, really don't think that it is possible to cause somebody to be gluten intolerant by not giving him gluten. I think that either you are intolerant, or you're not.

Otherwise, we should get sick every time we try something we haven't tried before! Like me trying buckwheat when I realized I can't have real flour. I had never tried buckwheat in my life before last year. But it is actually the only starch I can tolerate a little of.

[Carriefaith]

Gluten is hard on the digestive system and when it is permantely removed for a while it may be difficult to re-introduce it without problems.

[e&j0304]

This is interesting to me. I have not asked my dr what she thinks but I will at my son's 2-year check up next week. I do not want to be making him sensitive to something, but also wonder if that's really possible.

Ursula, you made a good point when you stated that we would then be sensitive to anything new we try.

Sometimes it's really hard trying to figure this out as a parent. As an adult trying this diet, you know your body and how you feel. When I place my 2 year old who can't even talk on this diet, I really don't know how much better if at all he feels. It's a tough call to make. Of course, just like every other parent I just want to do what is best for him.

thanks for any other opinions. Anyone's dr. tell them what they think about this??

Shannon

[mommida]

The tests aren't very accurate for a patient under 24 months old. If your son was tested at such a young age, I would have to say his reaction from the gluten free diet is the conformation for the gluten intlorence.

A gluten challenge can be dangerous. My daughter ended being hospitalized after two weeks on the gluten challenge.

L.

[Michi8]

So what do you all think? Can a person who does not have a gluten intolerance develop one if kept off gluten? I want to be able to send my son to school on a "normal" diet if possible. I am planning on sending him to a Mother's Day Out program starting in January. I guess we will have to challenge this again in the summer when it isn't cold and flu season. I hate to make him sensitive if he doesn't have a problem with it. Do we need to introduce it slowly if we do it again?

Thanks for any thoughts. I have thought about this many times before and wanted to ask, so now I am!

Thanks!

Shannon

It think it can work that way for allergies, but doubt it's the same with intolerance.

I worry a bit about it myself. I'm going to go gluten free after my endoscopy (on Thurs!) regardless of the results, but wonder if I'm setting myself up for developing a wheat allergy. I already have numerous allergies, including to foods (and the list keeps growing), so I don't think it would be a stretch.

Michelle

[lonewolf]

I worry a bit about it myself. I'm going to go gluten free after my endoscopy (on Thurs!) regardless of the results, but wonder if I'm setting myself up for developing a wheat allergy. I already have numerous allergies, including to foods (and the list keeps growing), so I don't think it would be a stretch.

Michelle

Do you mean that you think going gluten free for a while might MAKE you allergic to wheat?

[Michi8]

Do you mean that you think going gluten free for a while might MAKE you allergic to wheat?

I'm concerned that the reintroduction of wheat after a long time of avoidance may trigger an allergic response. I'm basing this concern on how my allergies have changed and increased over the years.

For example, I developed an allergy to dogs after our family dog died (15 years with our family and no reactions) and I was "reintroduced" to dog dander after she was gone for a few years. Another example... since "outgrowing" my peanut allergy, I've been instructed to eat peanuts on a regular basis so I don't become resensitized. The theory is that to stop eating peanuts for awhile and then expose myself again, I may develop the allergy upon reexposure.

Michelle

[lonewolf]

Hmmm, interesting. I was told by two different doctors that you tend to become sensitive (or allergic) to foods you eat the most. You've obviously had a different advice.

If your body is reacting to a food, it seems like you just shouldn't eat it. You can supress a reaction by continuing to eat small amounts of a food, but that can also burn your immune system out after a while. When your body reacts to a food or chemical it's telling you that it sees it as poison or at least as dangerous to your body.

For example - I am allergic to dairy, but consumed it for many years. My body could fight a reaction, and did so by producing small amounts of an opiate-like chemical, so I actually craved milk. (And, there was damage bing done to my body that I couldn't feel.) Once I stopped drinking it for a long time, my immune system no longer produced this chemical to fight the reaction and when I tried to drink it again I reacted very badly. This meant that I was giving my immune system a much needed break. I wish I could find the article that I read about this that explained it all. I know I'm not explaining it well.

[Michi8]

Hmmm, interesting. I was told by two different doctors that you tend to become sensitive (or allergic) to foods you eat the most. You've obviously had a different advice.

If your body is reacting to a food, it seems like you just shouldn't eat it. You can supress a reaction by continuing to eat small amounts of a food, but that can also burn your immune system out after a while. When your body reacts to a food or chemical it's telling you that it sees it as poison or at least as dangerous to your body.

For example - I am allergic to dairy, but consumed it for many years. My body could fight a reaction, and did so by producing small amounts of an opiate-like chemical, so I actually craved milk. (And, there was damage bing done to my body that I couldn't feel.) Once I stopped drinking it for a long time, my immune system no longer produced this chemical to fight the reaction and when I tried to drink it again I reacted very badly. This meant that I was giving my immune system a much needed break. I wish I could find the article that I read about this that explained it all. I know I'm not explaining it well.

I don't have time to respond in depth right now (I've been a mouse potato for too long today! LOL!) But wanted to pass on this article about outgrowing peanut allergy and keeping it at bay: Open Original Shared Link The reason I outgrew the allergy in the first place was due to totally avoiding peanut for many years . Had I eaten small amounts over that time, I probably would still be reacting to peanuts.

Michelle

[Nancym]

Have you had your son checked for food allergies? By that, I mean the type of IgE allergy like a peanut allergy. Maybe he is allergic rather than intolerant.

Also, Dr. Fine says there are people who will test negative to his test yet still be gluten sensitive as proven by diet.

[lonewolf]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. I wonder if it's only true for peanuts. I didn't know that people could outgrow an anaphylactic type peanut allergy. My nephew has almost died a couple of times by accidental exposure to peanuts - wonder if an allergy that serious could be outgrown.

[e&j0304]

So basically this could go both ways?? Either I am making him more sensitive by keeping him off of it, or I could be causing unknown damage by having him on it. Am I right? I am a little confused. Basically what this boils down to for me is that I want my son to have the least complicated preschool experience that I can give him. I know how difficult it was to keep my dd gluten-free in preschool. I know it is not impossible, but why have your child left out of almost every little party if they don't have to be? (My dd is now starting to notice that her treat is different and she doesn't really like that.)

I guess there is probably no "right" answer to this question. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Thanks to all who have offered advice and any more is always welcome!

Shannon

Have you had your son checked for food allergies? By that, I mean the type of IgE allergy like a peanut allergy. Maybe he is allergic rather than intolerant.

Also, Dr. Fine says there are people who will test negative to his test yet still be gluten sensitive as proven by diet.

No, he has not been allergy tested. Do allergies run in families as well? We recently found out that my dd has a shellfish allergy. She also has allergic reactions to certain soaps. Maybe we need to check into that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Michi8]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link. I wonder if it's only true for peanuts. I didn't know that people could outgrow an anaphylactic type peanut allergy. My nephew has almost died a couple of times by accidental exposure to peanuts - wonder if an allergy that serious could be outgrown.

My allergies are not now, and never have been anaphylactic. They are still IgE responses, but just aren't that that severe. I get itchy lips, tongue, throat and ears, skin reactions, conjunctivitis (from airborne allergens) and have asthma attacks (also from airborne allergens.) The dr calls my food allergies "oral allergy syndrome."

I do not know how often allergies that result in anaphylaxis are outgrown. One child that I know personally who has outgrown peanut allergy was assumed to be anaphylactic "just in case" (given an epipen in case a reaction became severe) but never actually had a reaction that severe. The allergy was determined to be outgrown with an oral challenge and skin test. He outgrew this allergy by the time he was 8yo...until that point, he carefully avoided all contact with peanuts and nuts.

Michelle

So basically this could go both ways?? Either I am making him more sensitive by keeping him off of it, or I could be causing unknown damage by having him on it. Am I right? I am a little confused. Basically what this boils down to for me is that I want my son to have the least complicated preschool experience that I can give him. I know how difficult it was to keep my dd gluten-free in preschool. I know it is not impossible, but why have your child left out of almost every little party if they don't have to be? (My dd is now starting to notice that her treat is different and she doesn't really like that.)

I guess there is probably no "right" answer to this question. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Thanks to all who have offered advice and any more is always welcome!

Shannon

No, he has not been allergy tested. Do allergies run in families as well? We recently found out that my dd has a shellfish allergy. She also has allergic reactions to certain soaps. Maybe we need to check into that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The tendency to be allergic can run in families, especially if both mother and father both have allergies. The allergies do vary from person to person, however. So, although your dd has a shellfish allergy, your son may never develop one. I developed allergies to different things than my brothers, and a different times in our lives. I was allergic to peanuts and cat dander since toddlerhood, where my brother developed an allergy to legumes, wheat (though it may be celiac...still trying to convince him to get tested!) and peanuts in his late teens. My allergy to birch pollen, tree fruit and tree nuts didn't show up until my early 30s.

Michelle

[ravenwoodglass]

You can have gluten intolerance and still show up negative on blood tests. This happened to me even as an adult and it is even more common in children. This negative statis can often change which is why in countries where they routinely test children that are 'asymptomatic' they do it at about 4 and again at 11 to 12. In my opinion your withholding gluten will not make him gluten intolerant. If he does not have the genetic predisposition it will not happen. What you did was a gluten challenge. You withheld the suspect food until symptoms resolved and then saw them reoccur when it was reintroduced. I would consider him to be gluten intolerant and simply put him on the diet.

[sspitzer5]

So what do you all think? Can a person who does not have a gluten intolerance develop one if kept off gluten? I want to be able to send my son to school on a "normal" diet if possible. I am planning on sending him to a Mother's Day Out program starting in January. I guess we will have to challenge this again in the summer when it isn't cold and flu season. I hate to make him sensitive if he doesn't have a problem with it. Do we need to introduce it slowly if we do it again?

Interesting question! I've wondered about this too. Before I found out about being gluten intolerant, I had lots of fatigue, headaches, another autoimmune problem, but I never had any GI symptoms. I went on a pretty strict low carb diet for a couple of years. Of course, I wasn't gluten free, but I had cut down on gluten greatly due to the diet. When I later went off the low carb diet and started eating more gluten, I developed intestinal symptoms. This is how I finally figured out that gluten was causing many of my health problems. I often wonder if would have developed intestinal problems if I hadn't cut back on gluten so much. But, I guess it worked out better this way. If I didn't have intestinal symptoms, I never would have figured out the gluten thing nor been able to stick with the diet.

S

[Guest Kathy Ann]

How allergies form and how they continue is an interesting study. I'm no expert, but the way it has been explained to me is that some people are honestly born with immune systems genetically preprogrammed to react to certain things (usually proteins) like gluten, casein, egg whites, etc. Those kinds of allergies cannot be "outgrown" and require complete abstinence to remain healthy. Dangerous immediate allergies like peanuts probably fall into this category as well.

Because of serious allergies like gluten intolerance which repeatedly perforate the intestines or modern gastrointestinal ailments like diverticulitis, parasites, constipation and colitis which also hurt the integrity of the gut, undigested foods end up leaking into the body (Leaky Gut Syndrome). The powerful immune system being what it is, responds perfectly and puts out a protective "hit" on those undigested foods and you end up with a temporary allergy as a result. Until that gut is fully healed and you keep completely away from those temporary allergy foods for a long enough time (usually 6 months to a year), you will remain allergic to them because your immune system still "remembers" it.

After you abstain long enough and there is no longer any leakage, it is very possible for your immune system to then "forget" that allergy. Genetically preprogrammed intolerances, however, are never outgrown. They can go into a type of adaptive remission and fool you, but they are still very much there. The body is an amazing organism and survival is ALWAYS its prime directive.

We have been told to always eat a variety of foods and rotate our diets as much as possible. I think that's because so many of us have leaky, damaged guts. Many civilizations eat a handful of the same foods every single day and do not have bowel or disease issues, probably because they do not typically have leaky guts.

Even though the immune system can "forget" an allergy if enough time goes by, sometimes it just doesn't and you are stuck with another permanent allergy. I don't think anyone knows exactly why. It has been suggested by some researchers that those of us with celiac seem to be blessed with especially powerful immune systems to begin with. We tend to wear them out before we are done, but it can be a blessing for other things we might encounter.

I can't think of any scientific reason why staying away from a specific food would ultimately make you allergic to it unless you already were anyway.

[Michi8]

I can't think of any scientific reason why staying away from a specific food would ultimately make you allergic to it unless you already were anyway.

There is certainly a lot that is uknown/misunderstood about allergies and intolerances...the medical community has a long way to go yet. However, not all allergies are related to the gut/digestive system, and many allergies are due to cross reactions (eg pollens and fruit). I certainly don't have to eat an apple to react to it...I can have a reaction by simply touching my eye after cutting one. I am allergic to it, because it is related to my birch tree allergy, not because I have digestive issues/leaky gut.

Allergies can and do change over the course of a lifetime. Peanut is one that was assumed to stay with you for life, but many people, like myself, have outgrown it...I believe it's more common than previously thought. My allergy to apples, BTW, started after my first pregnancy...about the same time I "outgrew" my peanut allergy.

Given that my allergies have been changing over the years, I do think it is possible that I may still develop new allergies...and I do believe it is scientifically possible to develop a wheat allergy at some point...but I do not already have an allergy (IgE response) to wheat...although I may have an intolerance to wheat/gluten (hopefully biopsy will give me some answers.) However, to take it out of my diet and reintroduce it just may be the trigger to developing an IgE allergic response.

Michelle

[e&j0304]

This is all so interesting. Thank you all so much for your imput. I went to a Celiac Support Group meeting last night and asked this question there. Although there were no doctors, just people with celiac like all of you, they thought that you CANNOT cause a person to develop a sensitivity to gluten just by keeping them off of the diet.

I am going to just keep doing what I'm doing I think and hope that its the right thing.

Shannon

[Tim-n-VA]

Not having something in your diet and then putting it in your diet, especially in large quantities, can cause a reaction. In some cases, being off of a item you are allergic to for a long time can cause the body to "forget" that it is supposed to fight that particular substance and you won't have a reaction.

I think the key is to recognize how your body (or your child's body) is reacting and not get so caught up in the technical definitions of allergies, intolerances and auto-immune reactions. Or, at least that seems to be the source of a lot of the contradicting opinions.

[e&j0304]

Not having something in your diet and then putting it in your diet, especially in large quantities, can cause a reaction. In some cases, being off of a item you are allergic to for a long time can cause the body to "forget" that it is supposed to fight that particular substance and you won't have a reaction.

My question is, would it cause a "reaction" in a person who is not or never would be sensitive to that food. I realize that it would cause a reaction in someone who is already proven to be sensitive. I am simply wondering if you took gluten away from a person who had no issue with it and never would, if they would then develop an intolerance as a result of not having the gluten in their diet. In essence I am wondering if it is possible to CAUSE a person to become gluten intolerant if they would not otherwise. Does that make sense?

[Tim-n-VA]

I knew person who had been on a vegitarian diet for years and when she decided to eat a steak, she got sick. I doubt that she was allergic or intolerant by any medical definition, it was just something she wasn't used to.

I was in the military for 20 years and that meant frequent moves. Almost everywhere we moved, we had family members have initial problems with the water, something new in the diet, etc.

My only point is that a single reaction to something that hadn't been consumed in a while would not lead me to a definitive conclusion about allergies or intolerances.

[e&j0304]

Thanks for your opinion. Basically we just don't know if my son is intolerant unless we continually subject him to getting sick and wait for him to "adjust" if he's going to...

How long would you say it would take to become able to tolerate a food again. For example, your friend with the steak. How long did it take before her body could tolerate it? I am wondering if we do decide to do a gluten challenge do we keep in on it for a week, a month before deciding? I would hate to see him so sick for so long. I actually doubt that I could do that to him.

[Tim-n-VA]

I'm a little hesitant to answer because there are so many factors. But since there was a fever (possible flu) and since a large quantity was consumed, combined with wanting an easier diet for school, I'd try a really small quantity of something. By something, I'd go with a food that has as few other ingredients as possible so you can really narrow down what is happening.

[Jestgar]

I'm not going to go into the initial allergy question, but the tag question was "should we introduce it slowly?"

If your son already has a reaction to gluten, just not one that you can see, introducing a lot of gluten at one time could cause a huge reaction. For that reason, if you plan to do a mini challenge to see how he responds, I would introduce it slowly.

The steak question is a little different. If you stop eating meat, your body stops producing the enzymes needed to digest it properly. When you start eating it again, you start producing the enzymes again. This is true, in some people, with milk as well. So as Tim very carefully said, it is a reaction, just not an immune-mediated one.