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MDRB

Diet For Celiac Patients

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Hi,

I have been gluten free for about six weeks and am still experiencing symptoms. I've been considering going on a vegan diet (ie. no animal products whatsoever) because I have heard that it is good for healing the gut as the foods are low fat and easy to digest. I would of course still be gluten free. Thoughts? Has anyone else had any success with this?


Australian

Gluten Free Since mid March 2008

As well as gluten I can't eat: cantaloupe, honeydew, dairy and most nuts and seeds. I also seem to have a problem with a lot of fruits and vegetables but only when they are raw.

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A healthy vegan diet is not an easy thing.

As you recover your body needs protein to rebuild the villi and repair other damage.

This is not impossible on a began diet but its not easy... if you want to steer clear of other common allergens its even harder because so much vegan stuff contains soya. The problem I see is that soya is not a good source of nutrition ... it has all the right parts but it also has a lot of unwanted parts.

Just as for the general population getting most of your nutrition from wheat is not a good idea so for anyone with auto immune diseases getting most of your nutrition from soya is not. As for "easy to digest" soya certainly isn't.

However, the question of how much protein you need is a different matter ... most Westerners eat far more than they need.

An easy compromise might be just to cut back to one meal a day with some "good protein". (Most vegatables and legumes have poor protein)... and eat vegetables only at other meals. This way you are not missing things and still making the digestive process much easier for the most part.

Although a common allergen, if your not allergic you can suppliment a vegan diet with eggs .. fish is also easier to digest than red meat etc.

If you are deterimined to go vegan then do research it thoroughly and make sure you can balance your nutritional intake. A non vegan diet although not perfect does this more easily. For people who are already vegan they have experience and practice BUT I have seen far to many vegans who just look ill.

My ex had a colleage who thought she could feed her cats vegan food... they died on her one after another and eventually my ex reported her ... Obviously people are not cats :D but I just say this to illustrate that what might seem healthy taken to extremes often isn't....

Just as eating way to much red meat isn't healthy, neither is an unbalanced vegan diet. Cat's are designed as carnivores... humans as omnivores.

Its totally possible to feed a cat chemically produced vegan food ... but its VERY VERY hard unless you have a lab inyour back yard and a advanced degree in nutrition and another in vetinary science ... (I'm choosing cats because they are an exreme carnivore)

A healthy vegan diet for humans is much easier but still no simple matter, especially for a celiac as many foods are already cut-out.

edits:

The reason to say this is you say "low in fat and easy to digest".

Most white fish are also

The reason to say this is you say "low in fat and easy to digest" ... chosing to be vegan is a BIG choice, I admire those who do it for ethical reasons but its hard work.

gluten-free is not a choice.... its also hard work .... so I'd say pick your battle? A vegan diet is not automatically a healthy diet...if you don't know what your doing its actually possible its very unhealthy for someone with food adsorbtion issues. Being a bit blunt sorry) you probably have enough health issues wihout adding the burden of balancing a healthy vegan diet on a daily basis???

Just as a balance 3 meals a day of meat is not healthy either!

As with a lot of life .... a middle of the road path is often an imperfect but easier option .... If you add some lean meat or fish to inemeal a day then its one less thing to worry about and have to balance along with other health issues???


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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I did find animal products made me sick, so I don't eat them. Many feel sick without animal products. But I do wonder if it is as gfp said - they don't know how to go about it. For instance, most Americans do not eat much if any whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and so forth, which are more dense sources of proteins and fats than green veggies. A low fat diet is not good either, and that can also happen with a vegan diet.

Some high protein vegetable sources are amaranth (1/4 cup has as much protein as an egg), buckwheat, t'eff, quinoa, millet, Lentils, beans, and other legumes, and nuts and seeds. Some green veggies are also fairly respectable sources of protein, such as spinach. These foods are also good sources of healthy fats and fiber.

But I agree that Americans typically eat too much protein, and that is one factor in the rise of osteoporosis. Animal protein cause the body to consume up to 3 times as much calcium than does protein from vegetables.

So I think the bottom line is to listen to what your body tells you. If it doesn't do well with meat, then don't eat it, but if you find your body needs it, then resisting that might be more harmful than helpful.


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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Hi,

I think being a vegan for ethical reasons is fine, but would not recommend it for health reasons. Vitamin B12 is only found in animal products, so as a vegan you MUST take a supplement. Some celiacs are low in B12 from it not being absorbed, so that would be double trouble. Zinc is another one you have to watch out for since it is primarily in meat, but can be found in enriched grains.

Lots of vegetarian stuff has gluten. I know this was bad for me. I have been a vegan and vegetarian for many years. I do NOT do well with most meat. I started eating some poultry and fish when I gave up wheat. Meat can make me very ill. But I do well with albacore tuna and organic chicken. I also eat eggs. I don't eat too much protein, just enough based on my weight. But I had to replace my dairy protein with nuts and a little fish or chicken.


gluten . . . Kiss my grits!

pork and beef free- 1994

wheat free or wheat light- 2003

gluten free- January 2008

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If you still have symptoms, i'd recommend cutting out all dairy and soy as they often cause problems for celiacs (the proteins are stucturally very similar so the body thinks they are the gliadin invader). You can try it for 3 weeks and then do a challenge by adding in some soy and waiting a few days to see how you react, then try dairy etc.

I was vegan for awhile before being diagnosed celiac...and i'm thankful in that it made it alot easier to give up dairy because I had already been doing that. But now we do eat meat...one, because I have low iron and hypothyroid issues, and two, because I don't have the energy to cook all vegan for myself and my daughter esp. since my daughter loves meat. But we still stress fruits and vegetables. WE actually eat few grains except rice and oatmeal (gluten-free) on occasion, and millet bread. We've also been eating corn tortillas...but i'm getting suspicious that we might have problems with corn too!

The other issue is that if your gut is really damaged...actually legumes, whole grains,and nuts/seeds can be hard to digest...so I think you need to perhaps just tailor a diet to you specifically and not try to follow a specific "diet". You could ask for an intestinal permeability test which will show if you have leaky gut syndrome or not also.

The main thing is to eat REAL foods...not processed, and organic whenever possible (esp. meats). I focus on chicken, turkey, occasional lamb or beef, canned salmon (wild caught)...and have meat once a day, then always have lots of fruits and veggies, and I eat lots of hummus also, and am still eating nuts...but am starting to feel maybe I shouldn't for awhile. Oh, also, don't worry too much about low fat. Yes you should have low trans fat of course, and go easy on saturated fat in general (i.e. not huge portions of meat), but you do need essential fatty acids as in flax oil, fish oil, etc.

good luck!

Liz

Hi,

I have been gluten free for about six weeks and am still experiencing symptoms. I've been considering going on a vegan diet (ie. no animal products whatsoever) because I have heard that it is good for healing the gut as the foods are low fat and easy to digest. I would of course still be gluten free. Thoughts? Has anyone else had any success with this?


Liz

Positive enterolab results 11/07:

-antigliadin IgA: 56 (normal <10)

-antitissue tTG IgA: 39 (normal <10)

-anti-casein IgA: 34 (normal <10)

-HLA-DQ: 2,1 (2,6)

Positive blood test IgA and IgG 12/07

Gluten-free Casein-free since 12/07

mostly soy free since 12/07

Diagnosed with adrenal fatigue 08/07

Diagnosed hypothyroid 01/08

Still have mercury fillings, high mercury and lead

Multiple chemical sensitivities

9 year old daughter positive enterolab test for gluten, casein, soy and egg with HLA-DQ 3,1 (7,6)--mostly exhibits behavioral reactions to foods including food dyes, MSG, aspartame

Mother passed away 3 years ago of adenocarcinoma of unknown primary. Two years prior had diarrhea causing her to weigh 86 pounds...Mayo clinic told her to take pepto bismol. NO test for celiac, lifelong hx of ulcers, osteoporosis. I now know she had the celiac gene (my dad has DQ1) and was probably undiagnosed her whole life.

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I think being a vegan for ethical reasons is fine, but would not recommend it for health reasons. Vitamin B12 is only found in animal products, so as a vegan you MUST take a supplement. Some celiacs are low in B12 from it not being absorbed, so that would be double trouble. Zinc is another one you have to watch out for since it is primarily in meat, but can be found in enriched grains.

Well, I agree with the B12 part, but it does seem that many on this board who eat meat still find B12 supplementation essential. As for zinc, there are plenty of good vegetable sources for it, such as spinach, summer squash, asparagus, swiss chard, collard greens, broccoli, green peas, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, and mustard seeds, just to name a few. Decent amounts of zinc is also found in various gluten-free grains too.

Lots of vegetarian stuff has gluten.
I guess you mean the prepackaged stuff, because whole fruits, veggies, grains, beans, nuts, seeds, etc are ALL gluten-free, except wheat, barley, and rye. Some Celiacs find they can eat oats if they are processed in a gluten-free facility, though others still cannot tolerate them. Amaranth has quite a good supply of zinc, protein, fiber, and numerous other nutrients, as do other gluten-free grains such as buckwheat, millet, t'eff, and so on.

One good place to check nutrient content of foods is:

www.nutritiondata.com


A spherical meteorite 10 km in diameter traveling at 20 km/s has the kinetic energy equal to the calories in 550,000,000,000,000,000 Twinkies.

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Whoa, I am surprised by some peoples comments. I am a gluten-free vegan and am perfectly healthy. I have never heard of anyone being vegan to heal themselves and well I guess I do not know many vegans in general. It is VERY easy as long as you watch what you eat and take care of yourself. Do research and make sure you eat well. You could talk to a nutritionist, too. I recently saw the one on my campus and she gave me some information on how to gain more protein and balance my meals. A vegan lifestyle can be just as good or bad as any, depending on what you eat. Good luck!

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Wow,

Thanks for all the replies and somewhat lively debate :) You guys have really given me something to think about.

Thanks especially to 'riceguy' for all the nutritional information as it gives me an idea of what I should be eating on a vegan diet.

I think I accidentally neglected to post an important peice of information: I have been a vegetarian since I was about 12. Ooops, sorry :unsure: This is important because some people have suggested I leave fish and lean meats in my diet when actually they haven't been a part of my diet for years . I have always found my protiens in eggs, cheese, yoghurt etc but was a little worried about finding sources of these foods if I went vegan.

Thanks to 'MySuicidalTurtle' (very odd display name btw :D ) for letting me know that it can be done.

I haven't made a decision yet but at least now I have some information to get me started.

Thanks guys :)


Australian

Gluten Free Since mid March 2008

As well as gluten I can't eat: cantaloupe, honeydew, dairy and most nuts and seeds. I also seem to have a problem with a lot of fruits and vegetables but only when they are raw.

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All you can do is try it and see how you feel. I found the best diet for me is eliminating all grains and legumes. In my reading they're very hard on the gut.

There are a few like me that follow a Paleo type diet. I also avoid high oxalate foods or foods high in salicylates.

Both foods in this catagory are alike.

Everyone is different and nobody is right or wrong in the right diet if gluten is not enough. All you can do is ask questions and do alot of reading.

Gail


Gluten Free since Jan. 06

Gluten intolerant. DQ 0301 DQ 0602

Lactose intolerant.

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Whoa, I am surprised by some peoples comments. I am a gluten-free vegan and am perfectly healthy. I have never heard of anyone being vegan to heal themselves and well I guess I do not know many vegans in general. It is VERY easy as long as you watch what you eat and take care of yourself. Do research and make sure you eat well. You could talk to a nutritionist, too. I recently saw the one on my campus and she gave me some information on how to gain more protein and balance my meals. A vegan lifestyle can be just as good or bad as any, depending on what you eat. Good luck!

Your last point is true ....

I think the first thing to say is "no diet is perfectly healthy" ... or no diet is perfect ... Its easy to think there must be a perfect diet ... like the perfect job and the perfect partner ... etc. but just about anything that we eat is both good and bad. Mercury is the only naturally occuring element that has no known use in the human body, even through many of the other elements are extremely toxic ... and too much water can kill you as dead as too much salt.. (admitedly you need a LOT of water).

So, what I'm referring to is which diet is generally healthy... ? A vegan diet can be very healthy .. but it can also be missing a lot of nutrients if care is not taken.

A very easy and reasonably healthy diet is a bit of meat or fish and a lot of vegetables ... simply because it delivers mostly what you need. Its not a great diet or perfect its just easy to get a reasonable balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals.

Riceguy illustrated good sources of different nutrients ... and this is good but you need to be aware of this to actively try and balance.

Everyone is different, some of us has pre-dispositions to not adsorbing or utilising specific nutrients. If those nutrients are hard to find in a vegan diet then that person is going to either struggle or need to actively include foods with a rich and easily digestable source of those nutrients.

For celiacs the situation is harder because there is a lot we cannot eat...

Non of this is impossible, it just takes thought, research and planning.

So its really not VERY easy for everyone.

That is the point I was making...

Put it this way ... when I get my hair cut the stylist will say how about like this, its easy to do ... well, its not easy for me... if it involves more than washing and letting it dry I'm not going to do it most days. Its not I'm not capable, I just don't have the enthusiasm...

If you set out to have a healthy vegan diet and do lots of research and preferably get blood tests to ensure your not missing anything then it can be very healthy.

If you set out and do the balance half-heartedly its easy to slip into something that's often not so healthy.

So really what I'm trying to say is it CAN bevery healthy if you want to put in the work... but be prepared to put in the work.

For Michelle RB this is les of a move and I can see why its a logical step because its mainly dairy she is cutting out. Its really not such a big step as someone eating lots of meat making the same step. However in general simply going vegan and not doing research is not a healthy choice because most people will not do th research and extra work required.

All you can do is try it and see how you feel.

A fair statement except .... if we have a hole in our nutrition its unlikely to just manifest overnight. these things tend to be progressive as we gradually drain our bodies resources. Our bodies are adaptable, starve it and it will go into famine response.... as an extreme example.

Anyway, lots of things are easy ... once you know what your doing. I find skiing very easy.... so easy I can't understand anymore how anyone can fall over ...

Stick me on a double black diamond with my boots undone and I'll breeze down... I have to think hard to the first time I went down a bunny run to appreciate how someone could not feel perfectly at ease on ski's.

This is because skiing is second nature to me.... just as long term vegans find balancing food second nature. However that doesn't mean its simpe for someone to start off without good professional advice or a lot of reading anymore than a gluten-free diet is simple.

A gluten-free diet becomes second nature yet most of us start off badly.. and its not until we get xperienced that we find all the hidden gotchas.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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Hi.

I have been a vegetarian for many years of my life. I don't handle meat well. I currently eat some fish and chicken because I don't digest nuts, think I may have a problem with soy. I mainly eat beans and soy for protein, but have tried to cut back on the soy. I don't eat meat everyday. And now I noticed salmon is hard for me to digest too. I am married to a man who has been a vegetarian his entire life. He has had a vegan diet for years of that too. He is super healthy. I am raising 3 children who were vegetarians the first few years of life. They have never had pork or beef. Two of them only rarely eat poultry or fish(maybe a few times a year) I totally support the vegetarian diet. For me, it has helped my intestines so much. I try to look at things from everyone's perspective, not just mine though. I didn't realize she was already a vegetarian, and I think that is fine. I recommend a whole foods diet regardless of whether it has meat or not. One that is balanced, with no trans fat and little saturated fat, limited sugar intake. To recommend meat to a vegetarian or to recommend removing meat from a meat eating diet could have bad results without first considering their personal constitution, diet, health, symptoms, and replacements for the foods you are eliminating. That is what I meant by saying I wouldn't recommend becoming vegetarian for health reasons. I meant First you need to look at the whole picture and then consider everything before making a descision if all you are considering is health. Ethical reasons are a whole other topic even though they can be related.

I am taking nutrition. I have an excellant textbook and a great diet analysis computer disc. I highly recommend the computer disc, because I thought I had a terrific, healthy diet but I was low in so many vitamins and mineral intakes. I looked at an average of 3 days(which were all vegetarian). I use nutritional yeast so my vitamin B intake was good. My zinc was not high enough though. Zinc is found in some legumes, but it is not as easily absorbed as from meat. Yeast in the bread is what makes the zinc available for absorption. The main sources my book lists are oysters, shrimp, pork chop, yogurt, beef steak, enriched cereal. They were also the main ones on that website. I don't eat any of these by the way. My recommended goal is 8 mg and over a 3 day average I only got 45% of that. I was low in quit a few things.

No matter what diet you choose, I suggest focusing on your intake. Don't assume you get enough just cause you eat whole foods that are unprocessed. You also have to be eating enough. Shockingly I found out I wasn't :blink: I thought that website nutritiondata.com looked great. I'll have to check it out in more detail later.

To clarify I meant lots of fake meat has gluten in it. Obviously, I realize that fruits and vegetables do not.

Michelle RB

Good luck with your healing.


gluten . . . Kiss my grits!

pork and beef free- 1994

wheat free or wheat light- 2003

gluten free- January 2008

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