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holdthegluten

Why The Food Intolerances?

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I have had follow up endoscopy/colonoscopy and blood tests to check on the celiac markers. Everything came back as perfectly normal...........villi is completely restored and blood tests show celiac levels are down to normal (ttg,ema).........The only thing that showed up was mild gastritis (no h.pylori) and elevted ALT enzyme.

My question is................if all of the celiac issues are resolved from diet, why are there all of these additional food intolerances for us celiacs........I feel like i react to so many foods and i dont see why.......Before celiac, I could eat anything i wanted and had no food intolerances as far as i can remember. No foods ever made me feel ill. As soon as diagnosis hit, tons of food bother me and i cant pinpoint them. I am doing food intolerance panel with immunohealth soon and we will see what the results are (IgE and IgG). Any thoughts why so many celiacs cant eat so many foods besides gluten.


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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I know I've said it lots of times before...in response to your posts....but I'll say it again. Leaky gut.

Do you know what triggered your Celiac in the first place?? Maybe yeast? Maybe bacteria? Something isnt quite right in your gut.....otherwise you wouldn't continue to have these problems. At this point it would seem to be a seperate issue from Celiac, as you have been on the diet long enough to have healed (and your tests indicate that this is true).

The fact that you continue to react to everything and still remain very symptomatic seems to really point to leaky gut. Also, you've posted many times about your ongoing symptoms and those particular symptoms would also be indicative of leaky gut/toxicity.

There is alot of info. regarding this condition (and its causes) right here on this board (can be found in searches) and also a google search will provide you with an even greater amount of info.

I dont have Celiac myself...but I do have an endless amount of intolerances. Before any of this happened I could eat whatever I wanted...and as much as I wanted...whenever I wanted.

The point is...*something* happened which triggered all of this. If I had Celiac genes I'm pretty sure those genes would have been triggered....but I dont have the genes....so no Celiac. You obviously have the genes....but still....what else happened that may have caused those genes to become triggered??

Sometimes people are focusing on only one diagnosis...even though there may be other issues which are still unidentified.

I would highly recommend researching these other possibilities as well as finding the most knowledgeable Dr. to help you figure it all out.

Food intolerance testing may or may not be helpful (for me it wasnt) but with persistent leaky gut you will very likely need to do more than food elimination in order for the gut to heal.


Rachel

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I know I've said it lots of times before...in response to your posts....but I'll say it again. Leaky gut.

Do you know what triggered your Celiac in the first place?? Maybe yeast? Maybe bacteria? Something isnt quite right in your gut.....otherwise you wouldn't continue to have these problems. At this point it would seem to be a seperate issue from Celiac, as you have been on the diet long enough to have healed (and your tests indicate that this is true).

The fact that you continue to react to everything and still remain very symptomatic seems to really point to leaky gut. Also, you've posted many times about your ongoing symptoms and those particular symptoms would also be indicative of leaky gut/toxicity.

There is alot of info. regarding this condition (and its causes) right here on this board (can be found in searches) and also a google search will provide you with an even greater amount of info.

I dont have Celiac myself...but I do have an endless amount of intolerances. Before any of this happened I could eat whatever I wanted...and as much as I wanted...whenever I wanted.

The point is...*something* happened which triggered all of this. If I had Celiac genes I'm pretty sure those genes would have been triggered....but I dont have the genes....so no Celiac. You obviously have the genes....but still....what else happened that may have caused those genes to become triggered??

Sometimes people are focusing on only one diagnosis...even though there may be other issues which are still unidentified.

I would highly recommend researching these other possibilities as well as finding the most knowledgeable Dr. to help you figure it all out.

Food intolerance testing may or may not be helpful (for me it wasnt) but with persistent leaky gut you will very likely need to do more than food elimination in order for the gut to heal.

Before all of this happened I had a really bad case of the Stomach flu...........i was actually hospitalized and sent home the following day.............Since then nothing has been the same.........Should I have a test done to see if i Have leaky gut for sure...........what other tests would indicate leaky gut? I apprecite your help a great deal. I never test positive for candida, but my symptoms match pretty closely............Do you think all of this is caused by leaky gut.......... What causes leaky gut and why cant i heal it?


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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Leaky gut isn't something you're going to get diagnosed in mainstream medical setting. It is a theory that explains why celiac disease seems to go hand in hand with lots of autoimmune problems.

There is no real recognized cure for it either. Does not eating gluten completely reverse it? Dunno! Or do all these other food intolerances we've also acquired also make it happen? Dunno!

Anyway, my philosophy is to try to keep my gut happy and the rest of my body should follow along. To that end, I have a LOT of food restrictions but a much happier gut. I did have to get used to not having a party-in-my-mouth at every meal and treat food like fuel, but I'm adjusted to that.

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There is no real recognized cure for it either.

Leaky gut is definately cureable. You cant identify a single "recognized cure" for a condition which can result from several different factors. Its not realistic.

One person may have leaky gut because they have Celiac Disease, another person may have leaky gut because they have parasites, another may have a yeast overgrowth, another may have problems with sulfation (not enough sulfate), another may have a bacterial overgrowth....and on and on and on.

The possibilities are endless and more often than not there is not one single cause....but several things contributing to the ongoing inflammation....it can become a vicious cycle.

Also, leaky gut is not something that is a foreign concept to mainstream medicine.....increased intestinal permeability is a known condition. Although mainstream medicine generally does not acknowledge or treat the common causes....such as candida. So yes, in order to be treated (without taking drugs to mask symptoms) you would need to go outside mainstream.

Leaky gut is becoming more and more recognized as the "gateway" for antigens to enter the bloodstream and trigger autoimmunity.

Does not eating gluten completely reverse it? Dunno!

In some cases it does and this is known to be true.

Or do all these other food intolerances we've also acquired also make it happen? Dunno!

Do they make it happen? Not in the majority of cases. However, they can prevent healing as they do cause inflammation.

If digestion is impaired for any reason (loss of enzyme function, dysbiosis, toxicity, etc.) and food is not broken down as it should be....the undigested food will contribute to keeping the gut inflamed as well as contributing to yeast/bacteria problems.

Leaky gut allows many toxins to circulate which puts a heavy burden on the liver. The toxins that enter the system as well as those produced by yeast and/or bacteria overgrowth also damage the intestinal lining. It truelly is a cycle that may have started with one thing but leads to a situation involving many body systems.

Its not possible to come up with one "cure" that will work for everyone since we are all different and we wont all have the same exact scenario which led to the increased permeability.

It is also not usually fruitful to try to self diagnosis or self treat....because without any knowledge as to what the underlying causes are...you can end up making the situation worse.

So yes....people do heal their leaky guts. The vast majority of autistic children have leaky gut and when their problems are properly addressed many of them do heal....even falling off of the spectrum completely.

This takes alot of testing for every possibility....not just targeting one problem (such as gluten intolerance)....and it is usually a multi-pronged approach that finally allows the gut to heal. This involves treating infections, addressing heavy metals (if they are an issue), nutritional support besaed on the individual's specific needs, removing foods which cause inflammatory response, etc. etc.

Our bodies are equipped with all of the necessary enzymes and functions to properly digest and assimilate food. Sometimes things come along (especially nowadays when we are exposed to many harmful toxins) which can impair these normal body functions. As a result we may lose our ability to digest the food, to assimilate the nutrients, to fight off pathogens, to detoxify the system....and ultimately we may lose our ability to remain healthy.

There are lots of doctors out there who understand this process....and who know what to look for and how to go about restoring what has been lost. People do regain their health. I dont think leaky gut is such a "mystery".....but I suppose it would depend on who you are going to for help. If you seek out knowledgeable doctors you are more likely to benefit from treatment than if you were to see someone who really has no understanding or experience with any of this.


Rachel

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Its hard when you say that lots of doctors understand leaky gut but most of the ones many of us find dont even understand celiac or food intolerances, let alone leaky gut. I live in Richmond, VA, not that small a town, and I cant find anyone to recomend a good general practitioner. I dont believe that naturopaths are liscensed in VA, because the few I've found were liscenced elsewhere and either are also md's or are active in trying to lobby for naturopaths to be allowed here. They also are in charlottesville, an hour away, which seems impossible when you have kids and no family to help.

Personally, I do believe candida and leaky gut are a big part of it for me, but I have not been able to cut out the sugar. I did notice severe reactions from vinegar, so I've cut that out, and every time i have a severe food reaction, I notice my yeast infection flares up. I had some oral antifungals which were working well, prescribed by my ob-gyn for the yeast infections, but its run out and i need to make another apt.

I'm hoping that by keeping my diet clean of foods I react to, and of vinegar and yeast and most fermented things (I do still use soy sauce), my body will begin to heal. I am also trying to reintroduce some of my favorite supplements, but i ALWAYS FORGET THEM!!! ARGG

Oh, I also am not willing to follow the yeast diet exactly, sincy my food selections are already so severely limited - no dairy, no eggs, almost no herbs or spices, no rice, etc.


Cara - 42, mom to dd 15, ds 12, ds 4

Off gluten and dairy (and tapioca ;-( ) since 11/07

A.L.C.A.T. test showed over 50 sensitive foods

Celiac panel came back negative.

Regular allergy testing reacted to every inhalant and all but 6 foods.

Slowly adding in foods, started w 19 and now have 25

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Its hard when you say that lots of doctors understand leaky gut but most of the ones many of us find dont even understand celiac or food intolerances, let alone leaky gut. I live in Richmond, VA, not that small a town, and I cant find anyone to recomend a good general practitioner. I dont believe that naturopaths are liscensed in VA, because the few I've found were liscenced elsewhere and either are also md's or are active in trying to lobby for naturopaths to be allowed here. They also are in charlottesville, an hour away, which seems impossible when you have kids and no family to help.

In my experience the most knowledgeable doctors are the ones who are treating conditions such as Lyme Disease, heavy metal toxicity, Autism and other neurological disorders.

I got lucky with this part because when I left my HMO the first Dr. I went to (who specialized in gluten intolerance/leaky gut, etc) was not able to get anywhere with me....after 7 months I hadnt improved and I wasnt able to tolerate any of the supplements he wanted to put me on. Instead of wasting more time he gave me the name of another Dr. who would probably be more knowledgeable and more capable of helping me.

This new Dr. had a ton of knowledge but still...being as reactive as I was it was hard to get me on any treatments....but we did alot of testing to rule things in/out. He sent me to someone else who works with very sensitive patients....then she set me up with a very good ND who is out of my state but comes here every few months. Then I got set up with another Dr. to help with some detoxification.

So basically I got passed around and all of these Dr.'s have had some part in getting me to where I'm at now. I just ended up in a circle of Dr.'s who are very involved in Autism and they all have alot of experience in treating the gut issues...along with heavy metal detox, metabolic issues, chronic infections, etc. There is nothing that I have come across in my research that they are unfamiliar with.

I am not working with just one doctor....and if I was I think I would be more limited. I mostly work with the out of state Dr. on all of my issues...any treatment or testing she recommends I go to my local doctor and he follows through on it. Those are the two I see consistently.

There are Dr.'s accross this country who communicate with each other and learn from each other and some may have more experience with one aspect of it....while another may have a better understanding of another aspect. Since most cases are multifactorial its sometimes necessary to see more than one person...even if there is some traveling involved.

Fortunately, I have not had to travel at all (yet) but I know of many people who do. I have met people who have come from out of state while sitting in the waiting room at my Dr.'s office. Sometimes it necessary if there is noone in the area.

I have come to know of alot of Dr.'s in my area (and some out of my area) so that if a particular issue comes up I can decide who I want to see for treatment. If things get really complicated and there are genetic components involved then I may have to travel a bit if I want to see someone who has alot of expereince with that part of it. But so far we've not gotten into the genetic stuff yet....and hopefully wont need to.

There are practitioners all over the country but just because someone is treating candida....or just because someone is an ND....doesnt necessarily mean that they understand the whole picture. They may not be any more helpful then a mainstream Dr.

Also, any ND who focuses on candida and doesnt look beyond that is most likely not going to be helpful. You want someone who "gets it"....someone who understands the whole picture. People just dont have chronic candida problems without having additional factors suppressing the immune system. If you focus only on candida it will come back as soon as you try to stop treatment....and who really wants to remain on the anti-candida diet for life?? In my opinion its too restrictive and not healthy for the long term.

The really knowledgeable Dr.'s do not focus only on candida....they understand that chronic candida is a sign that the body is not in balance. Its a symptom....a nasty symptom which can do plenty of damage...but a symptom nonetheless. In order to get rid of it you have to determine what has allowed for it to occur in the first place.

There is definately a wealth of info online. Personally, I like to stay on top of things so that I am on the same page with the Dr.'s. I also want to be informed so that I can make the best decsions I can for myself. Even though I'm very pleased with my Dr.'s I cant have anyone else taking full control of my health...afterall...its my body and noone knows me better than me.

A ton of info. can be learned about leaky gut just from researching what we know about Autism. As far as doctors go...many of the well known doctors travel alot...and as I said....they communicate with other doctors across the country. If you can find a Dr. who is knowledgeable it never hurts to call them and ask if they may know of someone in your vicinity that they would recommend.

All of the doctors I know of I basically learned about from word of mouth...either from my own Dr.'s or from other patients....or from online resources. They werent just randomly picked from the yellow pages or anything like that.

Also, ND's are not the only people treating these conditions. Two of my doctors are MD's. My out of state Dr. is a Naturopath. I actually need my MD because he can order prescriptions, tests, etc.....whereas the ND is limited as far as what she can order. So even if you cant find an ND in your area...there still may be others in your area who are just as good.....or maybe even better.


Rachel

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Before all of this happened I had a really bad case of the Stomach flu...........i was actually hospitalized and sent home the following day.............Since then nothing has been the same.........Should I have a test done to see if i Have leaky gut for sure...........what other tests would indicate leaky gut? I apprecite your help a great deal. I never test positive for candida, but my symptoms match pretty closely............Do you think all of this is caused by leaky gut.......... What causes leaky gut and why cant i heal it?

Were you given antibiotics for this stomach flu?? Have you taken alot of antibiotics in the past for various infections? Do you have mercury fillings? These are just a couple of things that can set the stage for gut problems....but there are many things that can happen to upset the balance.

Basically one of the main problems contributing to leaky gut is dysbiosis. There are billions of bacteria and other organisms in the GI tract.....there are hunderds of different species of bacteria and several species of yeast. There are more of these living organisms then there are cells in the entire body.

The majority of these organisms are "friendly"......meaning they are not harmful. In fact they are there for a reason....they enhance the immune system and they do a variety of things which help to keep the gut (and the body as a whole) in a healthy state.

Under normal circumstances yeast is also not harmful...its a normal part of the intestinal environment. It is not harmful in small amounts and in a healthy gut the friendly bacteria are the majority...yeast are in the minority.

There are some bacteria in the gut which serve no purpose and can be considered pathogenic....they are also in the minority.

The friendly bacteria keeps yeast in check....they also ward off other potentially pathogenic organisms...protecting us from infection. Because the friendly bacteria are the majority the yeast (or any pathogenic organism) does not have room to overgrow. If for some reason we lose this "army" of friendly bacteria these other "not so friendly" organisms can become the majority. If this happens we are in trouble.

These unfriendly organisms can produce toxins which cause inflammation and make us ill. They can also cause damage to the intestinal lining (especially yeast). When the GI tract is not healthy digestion may be impaired....which means undigested food begins to add to the problem. Once the gut becomes leaky we are headed for more problems.

Not only does undigested food leak into the bloodstream but also toxins (including the ones produced by unfriendly organisms) and even bacteria, fungi, parasites and other "invaders" can gain access to the bloodstream and to body tissue outside of the gut.

As things begin to escalate the immune system becomes more overwhelmed. The immune system is not used to seeing undigested food in the bloodstream...nor is it used to seeing an overwhelming amount of toxins ciculating through the body. The immune system will respond to these things and so we will begin to react to them in ways we've never expereinced before. All of these circulating toxins also burden the liver and other body systems...such as the adrenals and thyroid glands....may also slow down as a result. Eventually the whole body can be affected.

This is why people with leaky gut tend to develop autoimmune problems....all of these possible "triggers" are basically invading areas of the body that they should never have access to under normal circumstances.

Many things can play a part in upsetting the balance in the intestinal tract and its not usually something that occurs overnight. The main one is anitbiotics....because antibiotics dont descriminate...they kill bacteria....including the "good guys". Broad spectrum antibiotics can kill off enough of the army to allow for pathogenic organisms to take over.

Yeast is not a bacteria....therefore it is not killed off by antibiotics.....instead it can take over as more space is made available. Eventually you end up with more bad guys and the good guys are in the minority...which is not good.

The toxins produced by yeast are the same ones which will give you the feeling of "hangover" after a night of partying.....only this one doesnt wear off. So brainfog or memory problems can be a result of too much yeast in the body.

Some pathogenic bacteria can produce the same type of symptoms that are common with yeast overgrowth so testing is important. You can self diagnose yeast and by treating that you may make a bacteria overgrowth worse...or vice versa. Also, alot of people with dysbiosis will actually have yeast AND bacteria problems so just treating yeast isnt going to be enough....and just treating the bacteria isnt going to be enough.

All of the "bad guys" need to be identified (including parasites) and treated and at the same time the gut needs to be restored with friendly bacteria.

Also, a toxic body provides an environment which is favorable for the bad guys and not so good for our friendly army. This means that if you have mercury toxicity, Lyme Disease, too much lead, too much copper, or some other imbalance that is keeping the body toxic....no matter what you do the bad guys will keep coming back and they will remain in the majority.

That why I say that in most cases the problem is multifactorial....and you can see how just eliminating the reactive foods isnt going to "cure" the problem.

Things usually pile up over time....so you have to address whichever things are putting the heaviest burden on your system.

Besides antibiotics alot of other things can disrupt the balance. Mercury is a "natural" antibiotic.....it has antibacterial properties. The mercury vapor from fillings is not only toxic to us...but it can also upset the balance in the gut by providing a more toxic environment which is favorable for pathogens and it can kill off friendly bacteria.

Chlorine is another toxic substance which can upset the balance of good/bad bacteria.

Here is a short list of things which can disrupt the balance in the GI tract.

Antibiotic use

Use of the birth control pill

Use of other hormones, especially immunosuppressants like steroids

Diet

Alcohol

Stress

As for causes of leaky gut...there are many possibilities. Here are some:

Antibiotics - because they lead to the overgrowth of abnormal flora in the gastrointestinal tract (bacteria, parasites, candida, fungi)

Alcohol and caffeine (strong gut irritants)

Foods and beverages contaminated by parasites like Giardia lamblia, cryptosporidium, blastocystis hominis and others

Foods and beverages contaminated by bacteria like helicobacter pylori, klebsiella, citrobacter, pseudomonas and others

Chemicals in fermented and processed food (dyes, preservatives, peroxidized fats)

Enzyme deficiencies (e.g. celiac disease, lactase deficiency causing lactose intolerance)

NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like ASA, ibuprofen, indomethacin, etc.

Prescription corticosteroids (e.g. prednisone, hydrocortisone, DepoMedrol, etc.)

High refined carbohydrate diet (e.g. candy bars, cookies, cake, soft drinks, white bread)

Prescription hormones like the birth control pill

Mold and fungal mycotoxins in stored grains, fruit and refined carbohydrates

Dysbiosis and gastrointestinal Disease

Chemo-therapy and radiation therapy causing immune overload

Personally, I do not think a test for leaky gut itself is of much use. If there are multiple food intolerances its pretty much a given and I tend to focus more on tests that will provide more clear answers as to *why* the gut is leaky. Just knowing that the gut is leaky doesnt really change anything and there is no effective treatment without actually knowing the causes.

The reason that you cannot heal your gut is because you still dont know whats causing it to be leaky. You cant treat something without knowing what needs to be treated....and you cannot heal without treatment.....so you just stay in the same place.

If a person has Celiac they will not get better until they know why they have the symptoms. Once they know that gluten is the cause for their symptoms they can remove it and they can resolve those symptoms. Its not any different with leaky gut....you have to know what the problem is in order to get better.

And yes...a person can have both Celiac Disease and leaky gut....which is why some people (such as yourself) may not get better even though they've treated the Celiac by removing gluten. So you've identified one problem....but you still may have others that are left untreated.

I have had a few tests for yeast. The stool tests were unreliable. Blood antibody tests were very clear....I had extremely elevated antibodies for intestinal yeast (one of the highest my doctor had ever seen). Prior to that I had different types of alternative tests (including muscle testing) which all indicated a significant yeast issue.

Currently, I'm doing additional testing to try to get the clearest picture as far as the gut issues go.

These are the most common tests that Dr.'s are using.....Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) from a well known lab such as Genova (formerly Great Smokies).

Organic Acid Test (OAT) from Great Plains Laboratory.

This one is used often by doctors treating Autism. It provides the Dr. with alot of info. as far as metabolic imbalances and yeast/bacteria issues.

It tests for many different things but the main focus of the test is yeast and bacteria. It will identify yeast and bacteria metabolites in the urine. Not the yeast and the bacteria itself....but their metabolites.

Here are a couple links with info. on this test.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

http://www.nbnus.com/testkits/product_info...?products_id=18

I am currently doing both the CDSA and the OAT. I have done a CDSA in the past...but it was a few years back and long before I was working with good doctors. So now we are getting a more updated CDSA and the OAT....between the two tests we should hopefully get a better picture on my gut issues.

I can definately let you know how well these tests serve me and if I find the info. to be very valuable. I should get results in 3-4 weeks.

I'm doing the OAT + yeast culture and sensitivity. Basically the second part is added on (at extra cost) and includes a stool sample. If yeast is found in the stool they will culture it and then test various antifungals to see which works best against the yeast. So it can provide important info. as to how to procede with treatment....since some strains of yeast will not respond to certain treatments.

These are the two tests I would recommend from the start. Other than that I would also recommend Lyme testing (Igenex) if you've never been tested....because that can lead to these problems as well.

The most important part is finding a knowledgeable doctor who knows how to interpret these tests and who is familiar with them and uses them routinely in diagnosing and treating patients. You can take all of the tests in the world but if your Dr. doesnt know what to do with them its all a waste.

Another useful test is the hair analysis from Doctors Data.....again proper interpretation is critical. Not every doctor knows how to interpret these tests and in the case of mercury you have to know how to identify a problem even when mercury levels are low in the hair analysis results. Mercury does not usually show up in the hair test (it hides in the body)....but there are other things to look at which can identify mercury as a problem.

So those are the main things.

Hope this is helpful.


Rachel

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Its hard when you say that lots of doctors understand leaky gut but most of the ones many of us find dont even understand celiac or food intolerances, let alone leaky gut. I live in Richmond, VA, not that small a town, and I cant find anyone to recomend a good general practitioner. I dont believe that naturopaths are liscensed in VA, because the few I've found were liscenced elsewhere and either are also md's or are active in trying to lobby for naturopaths to be allowed here. They also are in charlottesville, an hour away, which seems impossible when you have kids and no family to help.

Personally, I do believe candida and leaky gut are a big part of it for me, but I have not been able to cut out the sugar. I did notice severe reactions from vinegar, so I've cut that out, and every time i have a severe food reaction, I notice my yeast infection flares up. I had some oral antifungals which were working well, prescribed by my ob-gyn for the yeast infections, but its run out and i need to make another apt.

I'm hoping that by keeping my diet clean of foods I react to, and of vinegar and yeast and most fermented things (I do still use soy sauce), my body will begin to heal. I am also trying to reintroduce some of my favorite supplements, but i ALWAYS FORGET THEM!!! ARGG

Oh, I also am not willing to follow the yeast diet exactly, sincy my food selections are already so severely limited - no dairy, no eggs, almost no herbs or spices, no rice, etc.

I have a book called "The Gospel of Health" by Valerie Saxion. In the back she lists 775 of America's leading alternative medical doctors. Here in Idaho only one is listed. I took my daughter there and he is great. He diagnosed her allergic to gluten on the first visit. I looked up Richmond, Virgina. Here is the only doc listed:

Kevin Harrison, DO

2621 Promenade Parkway

Richmond, Virginia 23113

(804) 897-8566

FAX (804) 897-8569

IM, CT (internal medicine, chelation therapy)


Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

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In my experience the most knowledgeable doctors are the ones who are treating conditions such as Lyme Disease, heavy metal toxicity, Autism and other neurological disorders.

I got lucky with this part because when I left my HMO the first Dr. I went to (who specialized in gluten intolerance/leaky gut, etc) was not able to get anywhere with me....after 7 months I hadnt improved and I wasnt able to tolerate any of the supplements he wanted to put me on. Instead of wasting more time he gave me the name of another Dr. who would probably be more knowledgeable and more capable of helping me.

This new Dr. had a ton of knowledge but still...being as reactive as I was it was hard to get me on any treatments....but we did alot of testing to rule things in/out. He sent me to someone else who works with very sensitive patients....then she set me up with a very good ND who is out of my state but comes here every few months. Then I got set up with another Dr. to help with some detoxification.

So basically I got passed around and all of these Dr.'s have had some part in getting me to where I'm at now. I just ended up in a circle of Dr.'s who are very involved in Autism and they all have alot of experience in treating the gut issues...along with heavy metal detox, metabolic issues, chronic infections, etc. There is nothing that I have come across in my research that they are unfamiliar with.

I am not working with just one doctor....and if I was I think I would be more limited. I mostly work with the out of state Dr. on all of my issues...any treatment or testing she recommends I go to my local doctor and he follows through on it. Those are the two I see consistently.

There are Dr.'s accross this country who communicate with each other and learn from each other and some may have more experience with one aspect of it....while another may have a better understanding of another aspect. Since most cases are multifactorial its sometimes necessary to see more than one person...even if there is some traveling involved.

Fortunately, I have not had to travel at all (yet) but I know of many people who do. I have met people who have come from out of state while sitting in the waiting room at my Dr.'s office. Sometimes it necessary if there is noone in the area.

I have come to know of alot of Dr.'s in my area (and some out of my area) so that if a particular issue comes up I can decide who I want to see for treatment. If things get really complicated and there are genetic components involved then I may have to travel a bit if I want to see someone who has alot of expereince with that part of it. But so far we've not gotten into the genetic stuff yet....and hopefully wont need to.

There are practitioners all over the country but just because someone is treating candida....or just because someone is an ND....doesnt necessarily mean that they understand the whole picture. They may not be any more helpful then a mainstream Dr.

Also, any ND who focuses on candida and doesnt look beyond that is most likely not going to be helpful. You want someone who "gets it"....someone who understands the whole picture. People just dont have chronic candida problems without having additional factors suppressing the immune system. If you focus only on candida it will come back as soon as you try to stop treatment....and who really wants to remain on the anti-candida diet for life?? In my opinion its too restrictive and not healthy for the long term.

The really knowledgeable Dr.'s do not focus only on candida....they understand that chronic candida is a sign that the body is not in balance. Its a symptom....a nasty symptom which can do plenty of damage...but a symptom nonetheless. In order to get rid of it you have to determine what has allowed for it to occur in the first place.

There is definately a wealth of info online. Personally, I like to stay on top of things so that I am on the same page with the Dr.'s. I also want to be informed so that I can make the best decsions I can for myself. Even though I'm very pleased with my Dr.'s I cant have anyone else taking full control of my health...afterall...its my body and noone knows me better than me.

A ton of info. can be learned about leaky gut just from researching what we know about Autism. As far as doctors go...many of the well known doctors travel alot...and as I said....they communicate with other doctors across the country. If you can find a Dr. who is knowledgeable it never hurts to call them and ask if they may know of someone in your vicinity that they would recommend.

All of the doctors I know of I basically learned about from word of mouth...either from my own Dr.'s or from other patients....or from online resources. They werent just randomly picked from the yellow pages or anything like that.

Also, ND's are not the only people treating these conditions. Two of my doctors are MD's. My out of state Dr. is a Naturopath. I actually need my MD because he can order prescriptions, tests, etc.....whereas the ND is limited as far as what she can order. So even if you cant find an ND in your area...there still may be others in your area who are just as good.....or maybe even better.

WOW! You SHOULD be a doctor!! Our osteopath can order prescriptions, chelation, homeopathy, osteopathic manipulation, family practice, acupunture, surgery, etc. It all depends on licensing in that state, training, qualifications, etc.


Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

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I have a book called "The Gospel of Health" by Valerie Saxion. In the back she lists 775 of America's leading alternative medical doctors. Here in Idaho only one is listed. I took my daughter there and he is great. He diagnosed her allergic to gluten on the first visit. I looked up Richmond, Virgina. Here is the only doc listed:

Kevin Harrison, DO

2621 Promenade Parkway

Richmond, Virginia 23113

(804) 897-8566

FAX (804) 897-8569

IM, CT (internal medicine, chelation therapy)

Thank you!


Cara - 42, mom to dd 15, ds 12, ds 4

Off gluten and dairy (and tapioca ;-( ) since 11/07

A.L.C.A.T. test showed over 50 sensitive foods

Celiac panel came back negative.

Regular allergy testing reacted to every inhalant and all but 6 foods.

Slowly adding in foods, started w 19 and now have 25

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I have a book called "The Gospel of Health" by Valerie Saxion. In the back she lists 775 of America's leading alternative medical doctors. Here in Idaho only one is listed. I took my daughter there and he is great. He diagnosed her allergic to gluten on the first visit. I looked up Richmond, Virgina. Here is the only doc listed:

Kevin Harrison, DO

2621 Promenade Parkway

Richmond, Virginia 23113

(804) 897-8566

FAX (804) 897-8569

IM, CT (internal medicine, chelation therapy)

I live in Richmond, VA, not that small a town, and I cant find anyone to recomend a good general practitioner.

Dbmamaz,

My cousin lives in Richmond and goes to an osteopath. She loves him, not sure if it's the one listed above, but I'll ask her the next time I talk to her.


Be yourself, everyone else is taken.

Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007

IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive

Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008

Soy free Jan 09

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Were you given antibiotics for this stomach flu?? Have you taken alot of antibiotics in the past for various infections? Do you have mercury fillings? These are just a couple of things that can set the stage for gut problems....but there are many things that can happen to upset the balance.

Basically one of the main problems contributing to leaky gut is dysbiosis. There are billions of bacteria and other organisms in the GI tract.....there are hunderds of different species of bacteria and several species of yeast. There are more of these living organisms then there are cells in the entire body.

The majority of these organisms are "friendly"......meaning they are not harmful. In fact they are there for a reason....they enhance the immune system and they do a variety of things which help to keep the gut (and the body as a whole) in a healthy state.

Under normal circumstances yeast is also not harmful...its a normal part of the intestinal environment. It is not harmful in small amounts and in a healthy gut the friendly bacteria are the majority...yeast are in the minority.

There are some bacteria in the gut which serve no purpose and can be considered pathogenic....they are also in the minority.

The friendly bacteria keeps yeast in check....they also ward off other potentially pathogenic organisms...protecting us from infection. Because the friendly bacteria are the majority the yeast (or any pathogenic organism) does not have room to overgrow. If for some reason we lose this "army" of friendly bacteria these other "not so friendly" organisms can become the majority. If this happens we are in trouble.

These unfriendly organisms can produce toxins which cause inflammation and make us ill. They can also cause damage to the intestinal lining (especially yeast). When the GI tract is not healthy digestion may be impaired....which means undigested food begins to add to the problem. Once the gut becomes leaky we are headed for more problems.

Not only does undigested food leak into the bloodstream but also toxins (including the ones produced by unfriendly organisms) and even bacteria, fungi, parasites and other "invaders" can gain access to the bloodstream and to body tissue outside of the gut.

As things begin to escalate the immune system becomes more overwhelmed. The immune system is not used to seeing undigested food in the bloodstream...nor is it used to seeing an overwhelming amount of toxins ciculating through the body. The immune system will respond to these things and so we will begin to react to them in ways we've never expereinced before. All of these circulating toxins also burden the liver and other body systems...such as the adrenals and thyroid glands....may also slow down as a result. Eventually the whole body can be affected.

This is why people with leaky gut tend to develop autoimmune problems....all of these possible "triggers" are basically invading areas of the body that they should never have access to under normal circumstances.

Many things can play a part in upsetting the balance in the intestinal tract and its not usually something that occurs overnight. The main one is anitbiotics....because antibiotics dont descriminate...they kill bacteria....including the "good guys". Broad spectrum antibiotics can kill off enough of the army to allow for pathogenic organisms to take over.

Yeast is not a bacteria....therefore it is not killed off by antibiotics.....instead it can take over as more space is made available. Eventually you end up with more bad guys and the good guys are in the minority...which is not good.

The toxins produced by yeast are the same ones which will give you the feeling of "hangover" after a night of partying.....only this one doesnt wear off. So brainfog or memory problems can be a result of too much yeast in the body.

Some pathogenic bacteria can produce the same type of symptoms that are common with yeast overgrowth so testing is important. You can self diagnose yeast and by treating that you may make a bacteria overgrowth worse...or vice versa. Also, alot of people with dysbiosis will actually have yeast AND bacteria problems so just treating yeast isnt going to be enough....and just treating the bacteria isnt going to be enough.

All of the "bad guys" need to be identified (including parasites) and treated and at the same time the gut needs to be restored with friendly bacteria.

Also, a toxic body provides an environment which is favorable for the bad guys and not so good for our friendly army. This means that if you have mercury toxicity, Lyme Disease, too much lead, too much copper, or some other imbalance that is keeping the body toxic....no matter what you do the bad guys will keep coming back and they will remain in the majority.

That why I say that in most cases the problem is multifactorial....and you can see how just eliminating the reactive foods isnt going to "cure" the problem.

Things usually pile up over time....so you have to address whichever things are putting the heaviest burden on your system.

Besides antibiotics alot of other things can disrupt the balance. Mercury is a "natural" antibiotic.....it has antibacterial properties. The mercury vapor from fillings is not only toxic to us...but it can also upset the balance in the gut by providing a more toxic environment which is favorable for pathogens and it can kill off friendly bacteria.

Chlorine is another toxic substance which can upset the balance of good/bad bacteria.

Here is a short list of things which can disrupt the balance in the GI tract.

Antibiotic use

Use of the birth control pill

Use of other hormones, especially immunosuppressants like steroids

Diet

Alcohol

Stress

As for causes of leaky gut...there are many possibilities. Here are some:

Personally, I do not think a test for leaky gut itself is of much use. If there are multiple food intolerances its pretty much a given and I tend to focus more on tests that will provide more clear answers as to *why* the gut is leaky. Just knowing that the gut is leaky doesnt really change anything and there is no effective treatment without actually knowing the causes.

The reason that you cannot heal your gut is because you still dont know whats causing it to be leaky. You cant treat something without knowing what needs to be treated....and you cannot heal without treatment.....so you just stay in the same place.

If a person has Celiac they will not get better until they know why they have the symptoms. Once they know that gluten is the cause for their symptoms they can remove it and they can resolve those symptoms. Its not any different with leaky gut....you have to know what the problem is in order to get better.

And yes...a person can have both Celiac Disease and leaky gut....which is why some people (such as yourself) may not get better even though they've treated the Celiac by removing gluten. So you've identified one problem....but you still may have others that are left untreated.

I have had a few tests for yeast. The stool tests were unreliable. Blood antibody tests were very clear....I had extremely elevated antibodies for intestinal yeast (one of the highest my doctor had ever seen). Prior to that I had different types of alternative tests (including muscle testing) which all indicated a significant yeast issue.

Currently, I'm doing additional testing to try to get the clearest picture as far as the gut issues go.

These are the most common tests that Dr.'s are using.....Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) from a well known lab such as Genova (formerly Great Smokies).

Organic Acid Test (OAT) from Great Plains Laboratory.

This one is used often by doctors treating Autism. It provides the Dr. with alot of info. as far as metabolic imbalances and yeast/bacteria issues.

It tests for many different things but the main focus of the test is yeast and bacteria. It will identify yeast and bacteria metabolites in the urine. Not the yeast and the bacteria itself....but their metabolites.

Here are a couple links with info. on this test.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

http://www.nbnus.com/testkits/product_info...?products_id=18

I am currently doing both the CDSA and the OAT. I have done a CDSA in the past...but it was a few years back and long before I was working with good doctors. So now we are getting a more updated CDSA and the OAT....between the two tests we should hopefully get a better picture on my gut issues.

I can definately let you know how well these tests serve me and if I find the info. to be very valuable. I should get results in 3-4 weeks.

I'm doing the OAT + yeast culture and sensitivity. Basically the second part is added on (at extra cost) and includes a stool sample. If yeast is found in the stool they will culture it and then test various antifungals to see which works best against the yeast. So it can provide important info. as to how to procede with treatment....since some strains of yeast will not respond to certain treatments.

These are the two tests I would recommend from the start. Other than that I would also recommend Lyme testing (Igenex) if you've never been tested....because that can lead to these problems as well.

The most important part is finding a knowledgeable doctor who knows how to interpret these tests and who is familiar with them and uses them routinely in diagnosing and treating patients. You can take all of the tests in the world but if your Dr. doesnt know what to do with them its all a waste.

Another useful test is the hair analysis from Doctors Data.....again proper interpretation is critical. Not every doctor knows how to interpret these tests and in the case of mercury you have to know how to identify a problem even when mercury levels are low in the hair analysis results. Mercury does not usually show up in the hair test (it hides in the body)....but there are other things to look at which can identify mercury as a problem.

So those are the main things.

Hope this is helpful.

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge

I dont have mercury fillings and i never took antibiotics for the stomach issue.......I used to take excedrin for daily headaches every day, until i stopped and went through the headache withdrawal and now i never touch anything but Tylenol. Thnks so much I am getting some testing done for leaky gut and SIBO.........Maybe i will have some answers..... I have a very good ND that listens and will order all tests i ask. She is very cooperative.


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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Were you given antibiotics for this stomach flu?? Have you taken alot of antibiotics in the past for various infections? Do you have mercury fillings? These are just a couple of things that can set the stage for gut problems....but there are many things that can happen to upset the balance.

Basically one of the main problems contributing to leaky gut is dysbiosis. There are billions of bacteria and other organisms in the GI tract.....there are hunderds of different species of bacteria and several species of yeast. There are more of these living organisms then there are cells in the entire body.

The majority of these organisms are "friendly"......meaning they are not harmful. In fact they are there for a reason....they enhance the immune system and they do a variety of things which help to keep the gut (and the body as a whole) in a healthy state.

Under normal circumstances yeast is also not harmful...its a normal part of the intestinal environment. It is not harmful in small amounts and in a healthy gut the friendly bacteria are the majority...yeast are in the minority.

There are some bacteria in the gut which serve no purpose and can be considered pathogenic....they are also in the minority.

The friendly bacteria keeps yeast in check....they also ward off other potentially pathogenic organisms...protecting us from infection. Because the friendly bacteria are the majority the yeast (or any pathogenic organism) does not have room to overgrow. If for some reason we lose this "army" of friendly bacteria these other "not so friendly" organisms can become the majority. If this happens we are in trouble.

These unfriendly organisms can produce toxins which cause inflammation and make us ill. They can also cause damage to the intestinal lining (especially yeast). When the GI tract is not healthy digestion may be impaired....which means undigested food begins to add to the problem. Once the gut becomes leaky we are headed for more problems.

Not only does undigested food leak into the bloodstream but also toxins (including the ones produced by unfriendly organisms) and even bacteria, fungi, parasites and other "invaders" can gain access to the bloodstream and to body tissue outside of the gut.

As things begin to escalate the immune system becomes more overwhelmed. The immune system is not used to seeing undigested food in the bloodstream...nor is it used to seeing an overwhelming amount of toxins ciculating through the body. The immune system will respond to these things and so we will begin to react to them in ways we've never expereinced before. All of these circulating toxins also burden the liver and other body systems...such as the adrenals and thyroid glands....may also slow down as a result. Eventually the whole body can be affected.

This is why people with leaky gut tend to develop autoimmune problems....all of these possible "triggers" are basically invading areas of the body that they should never have access to under normal circumstances.

Many things can play a part in upsetting the balance in the intestinal tract and its not usually something that occurs overnight. The main one is anitbiotics....because antibiotics dont descriminate...they kill bacteria....including the "good guys". Broad spectrum antibiotics can kill off enough of the army to allow for pathogenic organisms to take over.

Yeast is not a bacteria....therefore it is not killed off by antibiotics.....instead it can take over as more space is made available. Eventually you end up with more bad guys and the good guys are in the minority...which is not good.

The toxins produced by yeast are the same ones which will give you the feeling of "hangover" after a night of partying.....only this one doesnt wear off. So brainfog or memory problems can be a result of too much yeast in the body.

Some pathogenic bacteria can produce the same type of symptoms that are common with yeast overgrowth so testing is important. You can self diagnose yeast and by treating that you may make a bacteria overgrowth worse...or vice versa. Also, alot of people with dysbiosis will actually have yeast AND bacteria problems so just treating yeast isnt going to be enough....and just treating the bacteria isnt going to be enough.

All of the "bad guys" need to be identified (including parasites) and treated and at the same time the gut needs to be restored with friendly bacteria.

Also, a toxic body provides an environment which is favorable for the bad guys and not so good for our friendly army. This means that if you have mercury toxicity, Lyme Disease, too much lead, too much copper, or some other imbalance that is keeping the body toxic....no matter what you do the bad guys will keep coming back and they will remain in the majority.

That why I say that in most cases the problem is multifactorial....and you can see how just eliminating the reactive foods isnt going to "cure" the problem.

Things usually pile up over time....so you have to address whichever things are putting the heaviest burden on your system.

Besides antibiotics alot of other things can disrupt the balance. Mercury is a "natural" antibiotic.....it has antibacterial properties. The mercury vapor from fillings is not only toxic to us...but it can also upset the balance in the gut by providing a more toxic environment which is favorable for pathogens and it can kill off friendly bacteria.

Chlorine is another toxic substance which can upset the balance of good/bad bacteria.

Here is a short list of things which can disrupt the balance in the GI tract.

Antibiotic use

Use of the birth control pill

Use of other hormones, especially immunosuppressants like steroids

Diet

Alcohol

Stress

As for causes of leaky gut...there are many possibilities. Here are some:

Personally, I do not think a test for leaky gut itself is of much use. If there are multiple food intolerances its pretty much a given and I tend to focus more on tests that will provide more clear answers as to *why* the gut is leaky. Just knowing that the gut is leaky doesnt really change anything and there is no effective treatment without actually knowing the causes.

The reason that you cannot heal your gut is because you still dont know whats causing it to be leaky. You cant treat something without knowing what needs to be treated....and you cannot heal without treatment.....so you just stay in the same place.

If a person has Celiac they will not get better until they know why they have the symptoms. Once they know that gluten is the cause for their symptoms they can remove it and they can resolve those symptoms. Its not any different with leaky gut....you have to know what the problem is in order to get better.

And yes...a person can have both Celiac Disease and leaky gut....which is why some people (such as yourself) may not get better even though they've treated the Celiac by removing gluten. So you've identified one problem....but you still may have others that are left untreated.

I have had a few tests for yeast. The stool tests were unreliable. Blood antibody tests were very clear....I had extremely elevated antibodies for intestinal yeast (one of the highest my doctor had ever seen). Prior to that I had different types of alternative tests (including muscle testing) which all indicated a significant yeast issue.

Currently, I'm doing additional testing to try to get the clearest picture as far as the gut issues go.

These are the most common tests that Dr.'s are using.....Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) from a well known lab such as Genova (formerly Great Smokies).

Organic Acid Test (OAT) from Great Plains Laboratory.

This one is used often by doctors treating Autism. It provides the Dr. with alot of info. as far as metabolic imbalances and yeast/bacteria issues.

It tests for many different things but the main focus of the test is yeast and bacteria. It will identify yeast and bacteria metabolites in the urine. Not the yeast and the bacteria itself....but their metabolites.

Here are a couple links with info. on this test.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

http://www.nbnus.com/testkits/product_info...?products_id=18

I am currently doing both the CDSA and the OAT. I have done a CDSA in the past...but it was a few years back and long before I was working with good doctors. So now we are getting a more updated CDSA and the OAT....between the two tests we should hopefully get a better picture on my gut issues.

I can definately let you know how well these tests serve me and if I find the info. to be very valuable. I should get results in 3-4 weeks.

I'm doing the OAT + yeast culture and sensitivity. Basically the second part is added on (at extra cost) and includes a stool sample. If yeast is found in the stool they will culture it and then test various antifungals to see which works best against the yeast. So it can provide important info. as to how to procede with treatment....since some strains of yeast will not respond to certain treatments.

These are the two tests I would recommend from the start. Other than that I would also recommend Lyme testing (Igenex) if you've never been tested....because that can lead to these problems as well.

The most important part is finding a knowledgeable doctor who knows how to interpret these tests and who is familiar with them and uses them routinely in diagnosing and treating patients. You can take all of the tests in the world but if your Dr. doesnt know what to do with them its all a waste.

Another useful test is the hair analysis from Doctors Data.....again proper interpretation is critical. Not every doctor knows how to interpret these tests and in the case of mercury you have to know how to identify a problem even when mercury levels are low in the hair analysis results. Mercury does not usually show up in the hair test (it hides in the body)....but there are other things to look at which can identify mercury as a problem.

So those are the main things.

Hope this is helpful.

If i order the OAT and the CDSA what will this tell me to lead me to why i have a leaky gut........What would be the tretment with positive results on those 2 tests


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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Dbmamaz,

My cousin lives in Richmond and goes to an osteopath. She loves him, not sure if it's the one listed above, but I'll ask her the next time I talk to her.

Thanks, that woudl be great!


Cara - 42, mom to dd 15, ds 12, ds 4

Off gluten and dairy (and tapioca ;-( ) since 11/07

A.L.C.A.T. test showed over 50 sensitive foods

Celiac panel came back negative.

Regular allergy testing reacted to every inhalant and all but 6 foods.

Slowly adding in foods, started w 19 and now have 25

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Thanks, that woudl be great!

I'm talking to her right now, and he's the one. Check him out! ;)


Be yourself, everyone else is taken.

Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007

IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive

Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008

Soy free Jan 09

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If i order the OAT and the CDSA what will this tell me to lead me to why i have a leaky gut........What would be the tretment with positive results on those 2 tests

There is no test that I'm aware of that can tell you exactly why you have leaky gut. There are only tests to determine what problems you might have that can be causing inflammation, GI symptoms, food intolerances, etc.

Leaky gut is a result of something going on in the body....so its a symptom....a symptom which leads to more and more symptoms. If you eat something and end up with a headache...there is no test that will reveal exactly which food caused the headache. However, you can either figure it out on your own (everytime I eat apples a headache comes on) or you can do food testing to see if something is identified that can be connected to the headaches. Then the next step would be to remove that food and see if the headaches resolve.

Its the same thing with leaky gut. You test for various conditions in the body which might be causing inflammation in the gut. In your case you were diagnosed with Celiac....you treated it (gluten-free diet) and yet you still havent resolved symptoms or additional food intolerances. The first logical place to look for additional problems would be the digestive system.

The CDSA and the OAT will tell you alot about how your digestive system is functioning.

They will both look for yeast and bacteria....which can be a cause for inflammation/leaky gut. Other things like amounts of beneficial (friendly) bacteria are also tested.

Here is a description of the CDSA:

DESCRIPTION: This test evaluates digestion and absorption, bacterial balance and metabolism, yeast and immune status for patients with irritable bowel syndrome, indigestion, malabsorption, and other GI-related problems. Additionally, Genova offers a parasitology component with the CDSA test that evaluates for parasites using microscopic examination and EIA testing.

Here is a description of OAT:

The Organic Acid Test (OAT) provides a metabolic

Rachel

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I'm talking to her right now, and he's the one. Check him out! ;)

Too funny!


Cara - 42, mom to dd 15, ds 12, ds 4

Off gluten and dairy (and tapioca ;-( ) since 11/07

A.L.C.A.T. test showed over 50 sensitive foods

Celiac panel came back negative.

Regular allergy testing reacted to every inhalant and all but 6 foods.

Slowly adding in foods, started w 19 and now have 25

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There is no test that I'm aware of that can tell you exactly why you have leaky gut. There are only tests to determine what problems you might have that can be causing inflammation, GI symptoms, food intolerances, etc.

Leaky gut is a result of something going on in the body....so its a symptom....a symptom which leads to more and more symptoms. If you eat something and end up with a headache...there is no test that will reveal exactly which food caused the headache. However, you can either figure it out on your own (everytime I eat apples a headache comes on) or you can do food testing to see if something is identified that can be connected to the headaches. Then the next step would be to remove that food and see if the headaches resolve.

Its the same thing with leaky gut. You test for various conditions in the body which might be causing inflammation in the gut. In your case you were diagnosed with Celiac....you treated it (gluten-free diet) and yet you still havent resolved symptoms or additional food intolerances. The first logical place to look for additional problems would be the digestive system.

The CDSA and the OAT will tell you alot about how your digestive system is functioning.

They will both look for yeast and bacteria....which can be a cause for inflammation/leaky gut. Other things like amounts of beneficial (friendly) bacteria are also tested.

Here is a description of the CDSA:

Here is a description of OAT:

For more details on the OAT you can look here.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

The page provides details about each compound tested...as well as providing info. about treatments, etc.

Basically, treatment depends on the results of the tests. Any imbalances found may need to be corrected. If yeast is an issue antifungal treatment would be recommended. If bacteria is an issue antibacterial treatment would be recommended. If there is lack of benefical bacteria supplementation for that would be recommended. Dietary changes may be necessary......supplementation for nutrients, etc. Its all based on what is found in the test results.

Like I mentioned in my previous post....Great Plains Lab also offers a yeast culture sensitivity test. So if yeast were identified as a problem with the OAT test...you could then provide a stool sample so that the yeast (if present) can be cultured and then tested for sensitivity using several different antifungal treatments. That way your Dr. would know which antifungal to use in order to treat the yeast most effectively.

You can read about these tests (or others) in detail on the lab's websites. You can also do Google searches. There's alot of good info. available.

In my opinion its important to get a good understanding of what the tests are for and also how the results are interpreted. I dont rely on my doctors only for this part....its not unheard of that people get the right tests done but then nothing ever comes of it....because their Dr. doesnt recognize important things that are revealed in the results.

It happens all the time with Celiac testing (Dr.'s dismiss positive results and the patient doesnt realize the results are positive), it happens all the time with Lyme testing...or mercury, I've seen it happen with all kinds of tests. Thats why if I'm going to spend the $$ on the tests I want to make sure nothing gets ignored and that I fully understand the results. I think that part is important.

If your doctor doesnt have experience with these tests then most likely he/she is not all that familiar with these underlying conditions...or treating them. If that were the case I'd probably look for someone with more experience.

My doctor sent me a list of tests she wanted me to have done....the CDSA and the OAT were at the top of the list...and I have/had many of the same symptoms that you're experiencing.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me..........youre awesome


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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There is no test that I'm aware of that can tell you exactly why you have leaky gut. There are only tests to determine what problems you might have that can be causing inflammation, GI symptoms, food intolerances, etc.

Leaky gut is a result of something going on in the body....so its a symptom....a symptom which leads to more and more symptoms. If you eat something and end up with a headache...there is no test that will reveal exactly which food caused the headache. However, you can either figure it out on your own (everytime I eat apples a headache comes on) or you can do food testing to see if something is identified that can be connected to the headaches. Then the next step would be to remove that food and see if the headaches resolve.

Its the same thing with leaky gut. You test for various conditions in the body which might be causing inflammation in the gut. In your case you were diagnosed with Celiac....you treated it (gluten-free diet) and yet you still havent resolved symptoms or additional food intolerances. The first logical place to look for additional problems would be the digestive system.

The CDSA and the OAT will tell you alot about how your digestive system is functioning.

They will both look for yeast and bacteria....which can be a cause for inflammation/leaky gut. Other things like amounts of beneficial (friendly) bacteria are also tested.

Here is a description of the CDSA:

Here is a description of OAT:

For more details on the OAT you can look here.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

The page provides details about each compound tested...as well as providing info. about treatments, etc.

Basically, treatment depends on the results of the tests. Any imbalances found may need to be corrected. If yeast is an issue antifungal treatment would be recommended. If bacteria is an issue antibacterial treatment would be recommended. If there is lack of benefical bacteria supplementation for that would be recommended. Dietary changes may be necessary......supplementation for nutrients, etc. Its all based on what is found in the test results.

Like I mentioned in my previous post....Great Plains Lab also offers a yeast culture sensitivity test. So if yeast were identified as a problem with the OAT test...you could then provide a stool sample so that the yeast (if present) can be cultured and then tested for sensitivity using several different antifungal treatments. That way your Dr. would know which antifungal to use in order to treat the yeast most effectively.

You can read about these tests (or others) in detail on the lab's websites. You can also do Google searches. There's alot of good info. available.

In my opinion its important to get a good understanding of what the tests are for and also how the results are interpreted. I dont rely on my doctors only for this part....its not unheard of that people get the right tests done but then nothing ever comes of it....because their Dr. doesnt recognize important things that are revealed in the results.

It happens all the time with Celiac testing (Dr.'s dismiss positive results and the patient doesnt realize the results are positive), it happens all the time with Lyme testing...or mercury, I've seen it happen with all kinds of tests. Thats why if I'm going to spend the $$ on the tests I want to make sure nothing gets ignored and that I fully understand the results. I think that part is important.

If your doctor doesnt have experience with these tests then most likely he/she is not all that familiar with these underlying conditions...or treating them. If that were the case I'd probably look for someone with more experience.

My doctor sent me a list of tests she wanted me to have done....the CDSA and the OAT were at the top of the list...and I have/had many of the same symptoms that you're experiencing.

For the lst 4 days i have been on a very low carb high protein diet with no sugar. I felt great for 2 days and then on the third day i felt beat down.........really thirsty, hangover feeling, weak and tired. On the 4th day I felt quite a bit better and pretty good. I am taking raw garlic, Grapefruit seed extract and coconut oil. Does this sound like the herxheimer reaction (Die Off)?


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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For the lst 4 days i have been on a very low carb high protein diet with no sugar. I felt great for 2 days and then on the third day i felt beat down.........really thirsty, hangover feeling, weak and tired. On the 4th day I felt quite a bit better and pretty good. I am taking raw garlic, Grapefruit seed extract and coconut oil. Does this sound like the herxheimer reaction (Die Off)?

It could be a die-off reaction but its difficult to say for sure. Its especially hard to tell when we're sensitive to alot of things. Back when I started taking different things to try to treat yeast I attributed alot of my bad days to die off....when in fact I was reacting to things I was taking/eating.

With a die off reaction...following the reaction you should feel better than you did before you had the die-off reaction. So you should continue to feel better.

If you plan on taking tests you shouldnt be using antifungals...it will interfere with results (for obvious reasons). You may get test results indicating you dont have a problem....but only because you're taking these things. I think typically you would have to stop any kinds of treatments 2 weeks prior to testing.

You might feel better treating yeast...but usually as soon as you stop treating it comes right back. This is because with yeast overgrowth there are other issues involved. A healthy body/immune system does not allow yeast to overgrow. There are always underlying issues....and the yeast problem would be an indiactor that something is wrong.


Rachel

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It could be a die-off reaction but its difficult to say for sure. Its especially hard to tell when we're sensitive to alot of things. Back when I started taking different things to try to treat yeast I attributed alot of my bad days to die off....when in fact I was reacting to things I was taking/eating.

With a die off reaction...following the reaction you should feel better than you did before you had the die-off reaction. So you should continue to feel better.

If you plan on taking tests you shouldnt be using antifungals...it will interfere with results (for obvious reasons). You may get test results indicating you dont have a problem....but only because you're taking these things. I think typically you would have to stop any kinds of treatments 2 weeks prior to testing.

You might feel better treating yeast...but usually as soon as you stop treating it comes right back. This is because with yeast overgrowth there are other issues involved. A healthy body/immune system does not allow yeast to overgrow. There are always underlying issues....and the yeast problem would be an indiactor that something is wrong.

even natural antifungals cant be taken? garlic,gse,coconut oil


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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even natural antifungals cant be taken? garlic,gse,coconut oil

No....they cannot be taken prior to testing. These treatments can kill off anything that might have shown up in the test....so you may not get accurate results.

Anything that inteferes with the outcome of the test needs to be avoided. Usually they will have a list of things which need to be avoided prior to testing....it will be noted in the instructions. Antifungals, digestive enzymes and other things....depending on which test is being done.


Rachel

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No....they cannot be taken prior to testing. These treatments can kill off anything that might have shown up in the test....so you may not get accurate results.

Anything that inteferes with the outcome of the test needs to be avoided. Usually they will have a list of things which need to be avoided prior to testing....it will be noted in the instructions. Antifungals, digestive enzymes and other things....depending on which test is being done.

Is diet modification okay (very low carb and high protein)


28 yr old Male

Diagnosed Celiac in February 2007

Gluten-free/Casein Free

HLA DQ 2,3 Subtype (2,8) I have both celiac genes!

Married

1 child 9 months- Levi

Yeast/Bacteria overgrowth

" CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"

Wayne Dyer

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Is diet modification okay (very low carb and high protein)

Nothing in the instructions mentions diet...just antifungals, digestive enzymes and some other things.

I'm not on a strict candida diet or anything but I dont eat a ton of sugar or carbs. During the week that I had my test I ate more than I normally would....because if theres a problem I want to have it showing up in the test.

Back when I was very strict with my diet I did not test positive for yeast (stool test)....once I went off the diet the yeast was there. In all of the tests since then I've had yeast show up. My bloodwork was very high....whereas the stool tests werent as accurate.


Rachel

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