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CGally81

Casein? Rice?

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Okay, I've discovered that if I eat casein, including in GLUTEN-FREE Chex, I start to zone out and lose energy somewhat, though not nearly as badly as with gluten.

(Then again, I haven't had good sleep for the last week or so)

Anyway, today I avoided casein foods, and didn't have that problem... until I had dinner. Chicken, apple sauce, and brown rice. How could any of that be bad for me? I'm zoned out a bit now, and can't concentrate that well, and have less energy, and a bit of a headache, though it's kind of a different feeling than when I have the casein-containing foods. Maybe it could be because I'm tired from the lack of sleep before and had too much carbs, but could it be something I ate? Any ideas?

I'd REALLY hate for rice to mess me up. It's bad enough that gluten, and now possibly casein, but rice? A gluten-free grain that's been a staple of my diet forever?

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didn't have that problem... until I had dinner. Chicken, apple sauce, and brown rice. How could any of that be bad for me? I'm zoned out a bit now, and can't concentrate that well, and have less energy, and a bit of a headache.

Was the chicken seasoned, was it injected with broth before you bought it, was it cooked in a contaminated pan, what oil/butter did you use, did the apple sauce come in a jar that was contaminated by someone sticking in a poisoned spoon before you got to it, was it made with apples only, was it produced in a gluten free facility, did your wash the rice before cooking, was it just rice and no seasonings, was it cooked in a containated pan and did you kiss someone that had just eaten something with gluten? Or was anyone eating gluten while you cooked? Did anyone cook something with poisoned flour that day before you cooked?

Keep track of what you ate today in a food/symptoms journal to see if you can track down what is causing this problem.

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Was the chicken seasoned, was it injected with broth before you bought it, was it cooked in a contaminated pan, what oil/butter did you use, did the apple sauce come in a jar that was contaminated by someone sticking in a poisoned spoon before you got to it, was it made with apples only, was it produced in a gluten free facility, did your wash the rice before cooking, was it just rice and no seasonings, was it cooked in a containated pan and did you kiss someone that had just eaten something with gluten? Or was anyone eating gluten while you cooked? Did anyone cook something with poisoned flour that day before you cooked?

Keep track of what you ate today in a food/symptoms journal to see if you can track down what is causing this problem.

Ouch. I can't answer most of those questions!

The chicken is totally plain. The rice comes from a simple bag - long grain brown rice. No seasonings or anything. The rice was made in a dedicated rice maker, used for nothing else.

I don't know about the rest of the stuff.

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Okay, I've discovered that if I eat casein, including in GLUTEN-FREE Chex, I start to zone out and lose energy somewhat, though not nearly as badly as with gluten.

(Then again, I haven't had good sleep for the last week or so)

Anyway, today I avoided casein foods, and didn't have that problem... until I had dinner. Chicken, apple sauce, and brown rice. How could any of that be bad for me? I'm zoned out a bit now, and can't concentrate that well, and have less energy, and a bit of a headache, though it's kind of a different feeling than when I have the casein-containing foods. Maybe it could be because I'm tired from the lack of sleep before and had too much carbs, but could it be something I ate? Any ideas?

I'd REALLY hate for rice to mess me up. It's bad enough that gluten, and now possibly casein, but rice? A gluten-free grain that's been a staple of my diet forever?

When I first read this I thought 2 things: 1) You combined a starch with a protein which isnt good for digestion. 2) You combined fruit (applesauce) with rice(starch)

Food combining is often overlooked, ignored, or not really known.

Here's a great article on the basics of food combining: http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/food-combining.htm

I know i usually feel odd or sorta sick if i have something like a piece of fruit with my breakfast or something. The best idea for fruit in the morning(because its always best for breakfast, isnt it?) is to eat a piece of fruit, go do other things(get ready for work, workout, etc) and when you come back(30 minutes or more) eat breakfast.

Its just a thought, but it might be helpful to check it out. Best of luck:)

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It has happened to me. I became sensitized to rice and other non glutenous grains. I thus went off all grains for 10 months and ate a kind of combined paleo/scd diet. I now can eat brown rice with relative equanimity--though I am leary of eating it every day. I can also now have eggs and cheese twice a week (though not on the same day or I still get a migraine). I chalk it up to leaky gut syndrome. Heal the lining of your gut. Its very important. Given that, its important for many of us not to eat the same things every day since we have a tendency to get sensitized (read "allergic") to things otherwise. Certain herbs help too--like marshmallow root, detox herbs in moderation (dandelion, milk thistle, cleavers etc. as and if tolerated of course!!), as well as fibronyltic agents like nattokinase or serrapeptidase to help heal the villi and get rid of scar tissue, basic plant digestive enzymes, and pro-biotics. I also have recently added a new substance suggested by an article here on celiac.com: silica (in a biologically digestible form--like Biosil or horsetail tea).

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Was the chicken seasoned, was it injected with broth before you bought it, was it cooked in a contaminated pan, what oil/butter did you use, did the apple sauce come in a jar that was contaminated by someone sticking in a poisoned spoon before you got to it, was it made with apples only, was it produced in a gluten free facility, did your wash the rice before cooking, was it just rice and no seasonings, was it cooked in a containated pan and did you kiss someone that had just eaten something with gluten? Or was anyone eating gluten while you cooked? Did anyone cook something with poisoned flour that day before you cooked?

Keep track of what you ate today in a food/symptoms journal to see if you can track down what is causing this problem.

Hi Cgalley,

Maybe an elimination diet would work for you. There are threads here that explain them. But basically you start with a few foods and then slowly add other foods to your diet. That way you can track when you start getting symptoms after a new food is introduced.

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Ouch. I can't answer most of those questions!

The chicken is totally plain. The rice comes from a simple bag - long grain brown rice. No seasonings or anything. The rice was made in a dedicated rice maker, used for nothing else.

I don't know about the rest of the stuff.

I'd find out the answers you may start to see what is causing your problems.

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Try having just plain milk, or just plain rice, with nothing else near the same time. That will hopefully isolate the suspect foods, and hopefully then you'll know.

The only other thing that pops out at me is with the applesauce. Was it sweetened? Did it have added vitamin C? Most added vitamin C is derived from corn, so if you're highly sensitive to corn, that might cause a reaction I suppose.

The Rice Chex is sweetened, and if the applesauce was sweetened, then perhaps that's something to consider also.

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I hate to say it, but it could be the rice, yeah.

No way to know for sure, though, until you try the experiment again, isolating the foods completely. I was having a bunch of issues like that, and literally had to go to single ingredient foods that I made all by myself, and do a food log, before I found most of them. Every single thing in the grass family made the list, rice, corn, sugar cane. All of 'em.

But, good news?

If you are new to gluten free (I didn't know if you are?), then you are likely lactose intolerant to a certain extent. The part of the cilia that digest lactose are damaged by the gluten for celiac folks, so until that heals, milk products=bad.

My dietician also said that reacting to all grasses can be very normal right after you go gluten free, but that for most people, it calms down after a few months and you can have them again.

I wish you good luck. Food logs do, frankly, suck a lot. And if it gets bad enough, you have to start looking at what soaps you used, lotion residue on your hands or soap residue on plates and forks, all that good stuff, just to see what you are getting into you.

But I cannot express how much better I feel once I've stopped eating all the foods that make me feel bad!

Shauna

Okay, I've discovered that if I eat casein, including in GLUTEN-FREE Chex, I start to zone out and lose energy somewhat, though not nearly as badly as with gluten.

(Then again, I haven't had good sleep for the last week or so)

Anyway, today I avoided casein foods, and didn't have that problem... until I had dinner. Chicken, apple sauce, and brown rice. How could any of that be bad for me? I'm zoned out a bit now, and can't concentrate that well, and have less energy, and a bit of a headache, though it's kind of a different feeling than when I have the casein-containing foods. Maybe it could be because I'm tired from the lack of sleep before and had too much carbs, but could it be something I ate? Any ideas?

I'd REALLY hate for rice to mess me up. It's bad enough that gluten, and now possibly casein, but rice? A gluten-free grain that's been a staple of my diet forever?

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Okay, I've discovered that if I eat casein, including in GLUTEN-FREE Chex, I start to zone out and lose energy somewhat, though not nearly as badly as with gluten.

(Then again, I haven't had good sleep for the last week or so)

Anyway, today I avoided casein foods, and didn't have that problem... until I had dinner. Chicken, apple sauce, and brown rice. How could any of that be bad for me? I'm zoned out a bit now, and can't concentrate that well, and have less energy, and a bit of a headache, though it's kind of a different feeling than when I have the casein-containing foods. Maybe it could be because I'm tired from the lack of sleep before and had too much carbs, but could it be something I ate? Any ideas?

I'd REALLY hate for rice to mess me up. It's bad enough that gluten, and now possibly casein, but rice? A gluten-free grain that's been a staple of my diet forever?

Rice could very well be a problem. Myself, having had celiac disease undiagnosed for several years resulted in much damage having been done to the absorbing ability of my small intestine. When i started a glutien free diet (as part of a SCD diet) a couple of years ago i could not eat: of course-gluten (ie all wheat, barley, rye and oates products), any legumes, any dairy products, red meats, fats or oils except grapeseed oil, coconut oil,olive oil. hemp oil and flax oil, rice and rice product, potatoes and potatoe products, corn and corn products, sugar of any kind, shape or form and several other complex starches. Having kept on the special diet now for two years my "leaky gut" is almost totaly healed and the good bacteria colonies in the small intestine have been nearly fully returned. I am now starting to reintroduce polysaccarides without having any gastrointestinal problems. Eventually everything will get back to normal-except, i can never eat any gluten products. If you want to heal you have to be very, very, very patient It also helps to be almost fanatical about what you eat._

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Rice could very well be a problem. Myself, having had celiac disease undiagnosed for several years resulted in much damage having been done to the absorbing ability of my small intestine. When i started a glutien free diet (as part of a SCD diet) a couple of years ago i could not eat: of course-gluten (ie all wheat, barley, rye and oates products), any legumes, any dairy products, red meats, fats or oils except grapeseed oil, coconut oil,olive oil. hemp oil and flax oil, rice and rice product, potatoes and potatoe products, corn and corn products, sugar of any kind, shape or form and several other complex starches. Having kept on the special diet now for two years my "leaky gut" is almost totaly healed and the good bacteria colonies in the small intestine have been nearly fully returned. I am now starting to reintroduce polysaccarides without having any gastrointestinal problems. Eventually everything will get back to normal-except, i can never eat any gluten products. If you want to heal you have to be very, very, very patient It also helps to be almost fanatical about what you eat._

Its nice to know one isn't alone in all this. Am so very glad to hear you have gotten better too! And yes, it does take patience!

I just wish that when the anti gluten diet is first discussed this very real possibility of needing to go on a simple, basic, more paleo-like/scd diet was also discussed. Instead so many of us have to eventually figure it out the hard way.

Though maybe its generally not done so people won't be scared away??

Bea

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It turns out it might not have been the rice.

Testing something out, I cooked a hamburger, and then brown rice, over an hour and a half apart. I had them separately, and even ate the rice right out of the ricemaker (just in case the problem was the bowl I'd used before), and didn't get the "zoning out" type effect casein seems to give me (and gluten gives me that... and a LOT more!). I think the time I had rice, chicken and applesauce for dinner, I might have gotten "caseined" or something by something else? Cross contamination?

But rice appears not to be the problem after all.

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I wouldn't discount the possibility of other food sensitivities, however I will share that early in my healing I found that if I ate either corn or rice more often than every 3-4 days I got some tiredness/brain fog. However, over time and healing, now I can eat it at will without noticeable problem. Is it possible that your breakfast problem wasn't the milk, but the chex? I would guess that it could be just part of the healing process and try to keep all grains to a minimum for a while to give your body time to adjust, and see if milk still is a problem then.

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