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DianeSeekingInfo

Sick Or Starving/any Advice?

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Hi, I'm new to the site and am thrilled to learn about it. Recently diagnosed with celiac and also can't tolerate the 8 main allergens or rice, legumes, potatoes. I'm also vegan. My problem is that sometimes I get so hungry I don't know how to cope. I eat mostly all fruits and vegetables but then will sometimes try to add rice back in or nuts, for example and get very sick. So sick I can't even think about eating. Once my body heals up I start to get super hungry again and always feel wanting and weak. I love to work out and yet so often feel so weak and it makes my whole body hurt. Does anyone else have this problem or have any suggestions? Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

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If you can't tolerate legumes, soy, dairy and eggs and you are a vegan you must be dangerously low on protein. You need steady protein levels to maintain your blood sugar and keep you full. You are also limited as far as things that keep you feeling full.

Is there any way you would consider introducing dairy or eggs into your diet or are those included in the big 8?

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Hi, I'm new to the site and am thrilled to learn about it. Recently diagnosed with celiac and also can't tolerate the 8 main allergens or rice, legumes, potatoes. I'm also vegan. My problem is that sometimes I get so hungry I don't know how to cope. I eat mostly all fruits and vegetables but then will sometimes try to add rice back in or nuts, for example and get very sick. So sick I can't even think about eating. Once my body heals up I start to get super hungry again and always feel wanting and weak. I love to work out and yet so often feel so weak and it makes my whole body hurt. Does anyone else have this problem or have any suggestions? Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

I was vegan most of my adult life so I do understand . You may not like my advice but it is the best advice I have for you considering your current food issues.

You may want to consider adding meat back into your diet . Your body needs to heal .To heal it needs nourishment.

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I think it's possible to be vegan with food restrictions but you definitely have it tougher than the average gluten-free vegan. :(

Can you eat/do you have access to avocados? Is quinoa an option?

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You may find that you can tolerate legumes every third or fourth day. I really don't see how you can get enough protein without adding meat and fish in your diet with your other food intollerances.

You're exhuasted because you need protein. I don't like meat, but I consume it for fuel. Fish and shellfish is more pallatable for me.

You must have protein. Sorry. :ph34r:

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Sorry for your food issues. I tried to be a vegetarian for about 4 years and I was so sick all the time. it really sound slike your diet is not safe if you cannot find ways to get more protein. It may be time to re-evaluate your reasons for being vegan. If they are because of the treatment of animals would you consider humanely raised organic animals instead? If it is for religious/spiritual reasons then I'm afraid it will be a hard diet to stick to and stay healthy but there are a few options. Something you will want to look into adding: Quinoa, chia seeds, millet, sunflower seeds (sunbutter) lentils, chickpeas (when I first went gluten-free I had a problem with beans but I could do hummus/chickpeas) You might try, try many different types of beans if you think you just have a mild intolerance to them--try one at a time and one per week. You may find that some are easier to digest than others. I have more trouble digesting black beans for example but pinto beans now are fine.

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I really thing the best thing for you to do would be to see a dietician. Your diet is alarming - especially if you get so hungry that you can't cope. That's a big fat red flag right there. You need to get protein from somewhere, and a good dietician can examine your current diet to make sure you are getting everything you need. I highly highly doubt you are nourishing yourself properly. I'm so sorry....

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I totally agree that it is possible to be a gluten free vegan. I even believe that someone can be soy and gluten free and be a healthy vegan.

But with the kinds of restriction DianeSeekingInfo has reintroducing meats may be something to seriously consider ,at least until the body can tolerate more foods .

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You guys are amazing, totally amazing. I'm beyond touched and thankful for all of your kind and thoughtful responses. I give you all so much credit for all the struggles you have been through and for taking the time to share your insight and knowledge with me. Thank you so, so much! In my excitement at finding this site/forum yesterday, I neglected to mention some key things and I felt terrible about this once I realized it--I'm apparently intolerant of all grains--I've tried them all, including quinoa, millet, sourgham (sp?), etc., etc. Unfortunately I've never been able to do any kind of bean--have tried and tried with these as well over the years and always very problematic. Also garlic is a huge no-can-do, also onions, cabbage, brocoli, anything in that family, etc.

I have had a lot of success with hulled hemp seeds, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds (must be roasted on a clean line, can't do anything raw). Sunflower seeds can be problematic so I try to limit these. So, I try to work the hemp and chia in as much as possible to get the protein grams I need per day but find they really never seem to satisfy me or make me feel energized or full or satisfied the way I used to feel when I was eating wheat--I used to live on pretzels--they gave me so much energy--but, of course, I was terribly sick every night. I'm still recovering from the almonds I ate out of desperation on Friday night b/c I was so depleted and feeling so weak and knew I could never get through my busy Saturday w/o something else--I felt terrible GI-wise, but had the energy I needed to get through the day--then the symptoms just got worse and the outcome has been really tough to handle. I don't think I can ever look at another almond again. And I was so hopeful that reintroducing them would work.

I just really appreciate being able to share this with people who understand. It's incredibly helpful and I hope you realizse what an amazing thing you are doing to help people who have been suffering and feel at the end of their rope. I am so lucky to have the most understanding, kind, loving husband who is always there for me but he is worried too and there is only so much someone can talk about this when it's not your problem, you know? Knowing there are people like you out there who have suffered, survived and flourished and are kind enough to now help others is really, really helpful and healing. Thank you so much. I will keep everything you have advised in mind and move forward. My husband has been suggesting the going back to meat thing as well, but I can't get there yet (almost 30 years a vegan). I realize I may have to. Every nutritionist I talk to is completely clueless on how to help a vegan with my restrictions so I've read a lot of books and nutrition and tried to get myself the help I need that way but realize I still need work. Thank you so much for all of your thoughts and ideas and kind suggestions!

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Have you ever tried Buckwheat? It isn't wheat, if fact I don't think it is a grain either but a seed. It has easily digestible protein and is available in Kasha type groats or ground into flour or as a cereal like Cream of Wheat. I use the Pocono brand as it is grown in dedicated fields and processed with dedicated equipment in a plant that only processes buckwheat.

Hopefully after you have well healed you may be able to tolerate more foods. Just give it time and try items one at a time.

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So many good suggestions thoughtfully given. I certainly hope you find a solution. Vegan or not, I think you might want to consider whether you are having any issues with SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.) I know that seemed to be a real problem for me. It seemed to give me the impression that I might be dealing with fructose malabsorption . I have added raw coconut plus (not suggesting this for you, just telling you what I did and why) raw milk for the purpose of helping get my gut flora healthy and functioning. Once I did this I now go forever, seemingly, on smaller meals when I used to have to eat round the clock and the hunger would just get worse and worse. Maybe throwing some oils in there like EVOO or Coconut oil might help with your energy and help you make the most of the protein you are getting. Be well. I hope you get it figured out quickly. I know how miserable it made me for quite some time.

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I'm just so amazed by and also so very sorry for what all of you have gone through. I so appreicate your encouragment and overall kindness to offer such heart-felt, smart and helpful advice. I've tried buckwheat in all forms with no luck and also the cocunut, etc. with bad results. Dairy in the most minuscule amount does not work for me. I will move forward and be better having learned all you shared with me. Thanks Again!

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Just a quick aside. I could not tolerate pasteurized dairy but the raw dairy was no problem unless you count the fact that I had to drive out of state to get it! I had a very specific reason I was taking this. There are several discussions relative to this including one on antibiotics as a trigger for onset of symptoms where I discuss this in more detail. Another that might be helpful is to read up on the Specific Carbohydrate diet by Elaine Gottschall where she goes into the mechanics of gut dysbiosis. It all takes time. Can you tolerate things like Kombucha (spelling) tea or some naturally probiotic and prebiotics in any form. Just asking lots of questions to keep you curious. You are going to get it figured out. Keep up the good fight.

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Just a quick aside. I could not tolerate pasteurized dairy but the raw dairy was no problem unless you count the fact that I had to drive out of state to get it! I had a very specific reason I was taking this. There are several discussions relative to this including one on antibiotics as a trigger for onset of symptoms where I discuss this in more detail. Another that might be helpful is to read up on the Specific Carbohydrate diet by Elaine Gottschall where she goes into the mechanics of gut dysbiosis. It all takes time. Can you tolerate things like Kombucha (spelling) tea or some naturally probiotic and prebiotics in any form. Just asking lots of questions to keep you curious. You are going to get it figured out. Keep up the good fight.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and insight. I really appreciate learning about this and am sorry for your struggles, although it sounds like you found some solutions that really helped which is encouraging. I'll keep this in mind going forward. The probiotics and prebiotics I've tried over the years and even more recently when I tried again--specific dosage of high quaility, natural kind at direction of doctor for a set amount of time, did nothing but cause more pain and bloating, etc., etc. Any kind of milk or dairy has not agreed with me since childhood and I don't drive, and I'm vegan (realize may need to change to heal, etc.), but I will keep in all in mind and just appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I have more resolve and will than ever to move on and just concentrate on what does work and do this at higher, more regular levels and hopefully things will get easier and better and I won't get so hungry and weak in the future. Thanks Again!

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I'm sorry we have not been able to give you more help. We have covered a lot of foods already that you cannot eat. Perhaps we could help you better if you list what your DO eat currently? There are many different vegetables out there and maybe there are some new ones you could try to give you more variety/nutrition?

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I'm sorry we have not been able to give you more help. We have covered a lot of foods already that you cannot eat. Perhaps we could help you better if you list what your DO eat currently? There are many different vegetables out there and maybe there are some new ones you could try to give you more variety/nutrition?

Oh, thanks so much. You guys have been so helpful and given such great advice I hate to waste more of your expert time. I always try to make sure I have lots of what I can eat around so I don't feel deprived.

I can and do eat from the following list in a typical day: apples, oranges, grapefruit, lettuce, spinach, zucchini, yellow squash, tomatoes, asparagus, artichokes, celery, pears, grapes (really all fruit is fine except for bananas and pineapple). For protein I do the roasted pumpkin seeds (could not tolerate raw), hulled hemp seeds, chia seeds, sunflower seeds. I may try to do part of a rice based protein bar again just for variety (sometimes if I just do a little at a time I don't have a problem--problem is that is tastes good and then I want to just devour the entire thing) once I feel healed from the almond problem that has been plaguing me. I do fine for a while but then just get to where I'm really super hungry and I want something solid, you know, like pretzels or bread or a protein bar or anything that has more flavor--especially after a big work out I get really hungry and want to replenish what I lost, etc. Then I just worry I won't have the energy to get through the next day (can feel my body aching, etc. and then I get out of control and grab things I shouldn't--for example, last Friday night when I convinced myself the almonds would be okay, then I started eating them and they tasted so good I could not stop and then I started to feel good and energized and then of course about an hour later problems set in and I've been sick since then--really sick and just now feeling better.)

It's like I have so many fruits and vegetables and I'll have the chia and the hemp seeds with a big salad but I still feel empty or unsatisfied or something. I guess I just need to change my thinking. I can't do spices--they all seem to bother me, so I just miss the flavors and textures of things I used to enjoy and look forward to eating. There is one kind of bagel (free of 8 allergens made by Enjoy Life that I found) but again, I can only have a little and that is really hard when it taste good, etc. I was just wondering if any of you have had this similar phenomena happen and how you deal/cope. I realize I need to spread out the food all day and keep the protein stream steady--probably need to increase what I eat more during the day--I used to eat mostly at night b/c when on the wheat etc. I would get so sick after eating I wanted to be at home in comfortable environment. For years this was the routine, so it's hard to change but know I have to--still get hungry late at night once home, relaxed (have stressful job with long hours--can be hard to eat b/c of deadlines, etc.), after work outs, etc. Anyway, that's the long and short of it--just thought I'd see if other people have had this problem and how they handled it.

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It's like I have so many fruits and vegetables and I'll have the chia and the hemp seeds with a big salad but I still feel empty or unsatisfied or something. I guess I just need to change my thinking.

A) good, god NO. That's because you are empty! We've got to help you adjust your DIET.

B) You are working out on a diet like this?

Your approach at the end of the post seems like a reasonable start. Get more little nibbles in more often. ID more protiens. If you have to go back to meat you will surely, surely, have to nibble at it otherwise you will likely be violently ill after being vegan for 30 years. I am encouraged to read that you can get more of some things, like nibbling on a bagel. The fast that it's really hard not to eat the whole thing shows how hungry you really are. But, I wouldn't avoid it because of that - keep nibbling on stuff like that, every few hours. Maybe you can ease into being able to handle more, with time (lots of it)

Change is hard. I really hope we can help you through this. I know of a two dieticians that specialize in celiac disease that are here on the west coast. Would you, or have you ever considered seeing a dietician "online" or over the phone or something?? From what you are writing I think you do really need the help of a highly specialized professional on this one. I do wish you the best!!

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Truth be told I am becoming more convinced that symptoms like this, my own included, have their roots in gut flora damage caused by antibiotics among other things. Unless and until that is re-established the food list will just keep shrinking. The pro biotics I took just made things worse, definitely not anywhere close to a full spectrum of proper gut flora in even the best. Read up on the human microbiome project and you realize that there are perhaps more than 3000 different strains of microorganisms in the healthy gut. If the ones that are out of balance already.. even to the point of SIBO .. are the ones that are in the probiotic you are taking it will just serve to make the problem much worse. I was trying to re-establish my gut flora without the use of any supplements. Whole food only. It was a difficult process in some ways and there were some rough days as I went through what seemed to be a very drastic yeast die off while drinking the whole milk. I can definitively say that I make it on two large meals a days and am not very hungry. Granted, it took me years to get to the point of finally trying this. That hunger I experienced was unbearable and I could not eat enough food. The more I ate, especially carbs, the hungrier I got and the more weight I lost. I hated being starving all the time. Now I work out heavy, do hard physical labor and have no problem with hunger. Whereas I am not gaining much weight, I am gaining considerable strength. I take that as a good sign. This stuff can make us crazy to the point of irrationality. I would be very curious to see how you reacted to a much lower carb intake but, seeing what you can't eat, don't see how to accomplish this vegan-wise. It's a catch 22 situation. That's why Elaine Gottschall's book, breaking the vicious cycle" was such an eye opener to me. Your body is definitely trying to tell you something with the extreme hunger after workouts. Sounds like you are missing something there.

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Oh, thanks so much. You guys have been so helpful and given such great advice I hate to waste more of your expert time. I always try to make sure I have lots of what I can eat around so I don't feel deprived.

I can and do eat from the following list in a typical day: apples, oranges, grapefruit, lettuce, spinach, zucchini, yellow squash, tomatoes, asparagus, artichokes, celery, pears, grapes (really all fruit is fine except for bananas and pineapple). For protein I do the roasted pumpkin seeds (could not tolerate raw), hulled hemp seeds, chia seeds, sunflower seeds. I may try to do part of a rice based protein bar again just for variety (sometimes if I just do a little at a time I don't have a problem--problem is that is tastes good and then I want to just devour the entire thing) once I feel healed from the almond problem that has been plaguing me. I do fine for a while but then just get to where I'm really super hungry and I want something solid, you know, like pretzels or bread or a protein bar or anything that has more flavor--especially after a big work out I get really hungry and want to replenish what I lost, etc. Then I just worry I won't have the energy to get through the next day (can feel my body aching, etc. and then I get out of control and grab things I shouldn't--for example, last Friday night when I convinced myself the almonds would be okay, then I started eating them and they tasted so good I could not stop and then I started to feel good and energized and then of course about an hour later problems set in and I've been sick since then--really sick and just now feeling better.)

It's like I have so many fruits and vegetables and I'll have the chia and the hemp seeds with a big salad but I still feel empty or unsatisfied or something. I guess I just need to change my thinking. I can't do spices--they all seem to bother me, so I just miss the flavors and textures of things I used to enjoy and look forward to eating. There is one kind of bagel (free of 8 allergens made by Enjoy Life that I found) but again, I can only have a little and that is really hard when it taste good, etc. I was just wondering if any of you have had this similar phenomena happen and how you deal/cope. I realize I need to spread out the food all day and keep the protein stream steady--probably need to increase what I eat more during the day--I used to eat mostly at night b/c when on the wheat etc. I would get so sick after eating I wanted to be at home in comfortable environment. For years this was the routine, so it's hard to change but know I have to--still get hungry late at night once home, relaxed (have stressful job with long hours--can be hard to eat b/c of deadlines, etc.), after work outs, etc. Anyway, that's the long and short of it--just thought I'd see if other people have had this problem and how they handled it.

Hey, that's what this board is here for. I don't think any of us are experts but many of us have multiple food restrictions too and have had to research alternative nutrition sources for the things we can't eat. Okay, looking at what you are eating helps. It seems like you can't possibly be getting enough calories from that limited of a diet. I can't remember, did you say you can't do potatoes, sweet potatoes, Yams, etc? Getting some root vegetables into your diet which have more carbs could help you have some more energy. If you can't do potatoes what about parsnips, turnips, rutabagas, radishs, beets, carrots, daikon? Also I noticed you said earlier that you can't take probiotics. have you ever tried eating fermented foods that have natural probiotics such as pickles, saurkraut, kombucha tea or kimchi or even coconut milk yogurt and coconut milk kefir? Here's a link to some ways to make these foods at home: http://www.nakedfoodcooking.com/probiotic-food/

I have made Kefir with coconut milk before when I was attempting to make cocontu milk yogurt. You could try it with hemp milk as well since you said you can have hemp.

Another question for you--when you say the almonds made you sick are you talking about primarily a digestive issue? No need to go into details but I am just wondering. Are the alomds that you ate raw and whole or raw almond pieces? Do you have the same problem if you eat almond butter for example? Or have you tried soakign them? And the same question goes for all the other grains you said you cannot tolerate (except for gluten obviously). Have you ever soaked your grains/seeds/nuts to test whether they are easier for you to digest that way?

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Again, I can't thank you all enough for your kind and thoughtful responses. They have helped me so much. It is so incredibly calming and healing to get such amazing insight from people who really understand. It has really empowered me and strenthened my resolve to move forward.

To answer some of the thoughtful questions that were posed of me--can't do potatoes but can do carrots and radishes and will try the others from that grouping. Also love pumpkin and the winter squashes but since they are so high in Vitamin A and so are things I really need to have (almost) every day like spinach, green leafy lettuce, etc. I have to limit them or my skin turns orange.

The almonds I ate were "roasted with sea salt" and had no peanut contamination. I got so hungry I moved on to some others I had around that were raw and were also processed on a line with wheat, etc. so I may have been glutenized and not realized it. To specify, yes it was a digestive sickness--terrible, terrible GI problems for 5 days following--just as bad as any celiac attack.

I've not tried the "soaking" as nuts really never agreed with me any way. I was only ever able to do about 2-3 roasted almonds at a time w/o problem. Realize soaking may help but since recent problems can't really go there at present.

Will just keep trying to add protein as much as I can during the day and night and just keep trying new things and moving forward. If I am still having problems, I will most certainly would love to talk to the nutrition experts you recommend. I will keep you posted if needed.

I just want to thank you again for your acceptance and kindness. I grew up in a very unhealthy environment surrounding food which was very psychologically damaging on top of all the physical things my body was already fighting b/c of ingesting things that made me so sick over the years. It's just really neat to find a group like you that fosters such healthy, positive thoughts about food, eating and nuturing oneself. As my husband said, I'm at the point now where I'm basically having to relearn how to eat food. Having such a smart, accepting, positive group of people to encourage and advise me along the way has been just incredible--so exactly what I needed. Thank you. I'm truly grateful that you took the time to share your thoughts and kindess.

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if you have never looked into the benefits of soaking you really, really should! I will try to give you some links for reading up on the subject. You could start by soaking the seeds you already know you can tolerate like pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds. You may find that you no longer have the problem of hurting from eating too many if you soak them. If this works then you can decide whether you want to try soaking the other nuts, seeds and grains that you don't tolerate well.

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/07/soaking-nuts.html

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/03/nourishing-practices-soaking-grains-2.html

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/03/soaking-grains-part-two-2.html

http://nourishedkitchen.com/soaking-grains-nuts-legumes/

http://naturalbias.com/a-hidden-danger-with-nuts-grains-and-seeds/

http://www.veggiewave.com/soaking_chart

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Thanks so much. I will certainly look into this further, especially if you say that it has made these things easier to digest for people. Has it worked for you personally and did you notice a big difference? Is this the same thing as if you buy "sprouted pumpkin seeds" or "sprouted sunflower seeds" at say a Whole Foods? Those seemed so expensive I never tried them despite the claims on the package that they are easier to digetst. I saw these at the store around the same time that I was trying to do more rice and rice protein which are also supposed to be "easy to digest" and they are so not that for me, so I figured I better stay away...

Thanks again!!!

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A) good, god NO. That's because you are empty! We've got to help you adjust your DIET.

B) You are working out on a diet like this?

Your approach at the end of the post seems like a reasonable start. Get more little nibbles in more often. ID more protiens. If you have to go back to meat you will surely, surely, have to nibble at it otherwise you will likely be violently ill after being vegan for 30 years. I am encouraged to read that you can get more of some things, like nibbling on a bagel. The fast that it's really hard not to eat the whole thing shows how hungry you really are. But, I wouldn't avoid it because of that - keep nibbling on stuff like that, every few hours. Maybe you can ease into being able to handle more, with time (lots of it)

Change is hard. I really hope we can help you through this. I know of a two dieticians that specialize in celiac disease that are here on the west coast. Would you, or have you ever considered seeing a dietician "online" or over the phone or something?? From what you are writing I think you do really need the help of a highly specialized professional on this one. I do wish you the best!!

This was so helpful to me. Almost a month later I have been able to completely avoided gluten and corn. I have tried so hard after learning from this site how bad it is to relapse/cheat. I feel much, much better but am still struggling to get enought protein from sources that don't upset me. Having been vegan for 20 years, I really do not want to eat meat or dairy. I tried to reintroduce soy recently and had some big problems with gas, bloating and feeling nausaus for 24 hours, etc.--which is better than the 3 days suffered at the hand of gluten and corn, but still not easy to tolerate. Pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds seem to be a problem (bad stomach pain, bad gas but not as much bloating and not other symptoms of gluten and corn)if I do more than a partial to 1 serving a day--which was hard for me to do when I last got hungry, but realize I hve no choice but to return to small portions, if any.

I may need to contact one of those celiac nutritionists you spoke of if I continue to have such problems. Is there a way I could obtain their name and number from you? Don't want to put you out or on the spot or be a bother or any way be a problem, but any advice you may have would be helpful and very appreciated as always.

Thanks so much.

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Progress. It's a good thing and sounds like you are figuring things out that will work not only with how you feel but how you feel about certain things as well. Keep up the good fight. Best to you.

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Have you considered smoothies with pea protein and/or hemp protein?

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