[Oboysfun]

I recently had a discussion with a restaurant manager about gluten and transfer of gluten during deep fat frying. Their point was the gluten is changed in the deep fat frying process that does not cause damage. So items like french fries cooked in the same as a breaded item may contain gluten but cannot cause damage.

I am trying to find a study or confirmation one way or the other about this topic. If you respond please provide web link or where the location is of this information. I am sure this topic has come up before but I have not been able to locate it. Thanks for your effort!

3 out of 5 with Celiac,
Dave O.

[psawyer]

Everything I have ever seen or heard says that the deep fryer does not alter gluten (or any other protein, for that matter). Cross-contamination in the fryers is a big concern for all of us. The question mostly comes up in terms of french fries.

[Jestgar]

Only something that disintegrates protein (like maybe the clean cycle on a self cleaning oven) would make the gluten non-reactive. Since what gets cleaned out of a fryer is actually globs of over cooked stuff, not a slimy paste, I'm thinking it's still bad for you.

[tarnalberry]

It requires temperatures over 600F to denature the gluten protein (particularly the segment that causes the autoimmune reaction). This is not true of all proteins - gluten happens to be a VERY stable, tightly held together protein. While deep fryers are hot, they're more on the 350-400F realm; they are not nearly hot enough to denature the protein. Shared fryers are NOT safe for celiacs.


The manager you spoke to probably needs to take a little more chemistry.

[irish daveyboy]

Oboysfun, on 18 March 2010 - 04:33 AM, said:

I recently had a discussion with a restaurant manager about gluten and transfer of gluten during deep fat frying. TheiMy linkr point was the gluten is changed in the deep fat frying process that does not cause damage. So items like french fries cooked in the same as a breaded item may contain gluten but cannot cause damage.

I am trying to find a study or confirmation one way or the other about this topic. If you respond please provide web link or where the location is of this information. I am sure this topic has come up before but I have not been able to locate it. Thanks for your effort!

3 out of 5 with Celiac,
Dave O.

Hi David,
You might find this interesting and you may want to print this off and give it to the restaurant owner/manager.

P.S. Don't go there any more, they haven't a clue about cross-contamination.

Does Gluten denature in high temps...Click Here

Best Regards,
David

[buffettbride]

A Celaic's favorite two words are "dedicated fryer."

[tarnalberry]

irish daveyboy, on 18 March 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:

Hi David,
You might find this interesting and you may want to print this off and give it to the restaurant owner/manager.

P.S. Don't go there any more, they haven't a clue about cross-contamination.

Does Gluten denature in high temps...Click Here

Best Regards,
David

It's actually not clear, from a chemistry standpoint, if merely "denaturing" (breaking down the tertiary structure - but actually "denature" isn't necessarily specific to tertiary structure; it would depend on the molecule itself) is or is not enough of a change. The tertiary structure (the way a protein molecule folds in on itself after forming either helices or sheets (or other secondary structure)) IS important in the molecular binding to the antibodies in the intestines. It's not clear if the binding can still occur when that structure is broken down, but the secondary structure remains.

I totally agree on the "not going there" part, though.

[Pac]

tarnalberry, on 18 March 2010 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's actually not clear, from a chemistry standpoint, if merely "denaturing" (breaking down the tertiary structure - but actually "denature" isn't necessarily specific to tertiary structure; it would depend on the molecule itself) is or is not enough of a change. The tertiary structure (the way a protein molecule folds in on itself after forming either helices or sheets (or other secondary structure)) IS important in the molecular binding to the antibodies in the intestines. It's not clear if the binding can still occur when that structure is broken down, but the secondary structure remains.

I totally agree on the "not going there" part, though.

From most articles I've read I've got the impression that gluten is less toxic when in one piece, compared to peptides containing the toxic sequences, so I wouldn't count on denaturing it as a way to make it edible.
It is theoretically possible that denatured gluten becomes non-toxic - if it refolds so that all toxic sequences are hidden or sufficiently reshaped (so that neither transglutaminase in celiacs nor antibodies in allergic person can recognize it) and if your (and your gut bugs') digestive enzymes are not able to cut into it at all and the whole protein thus passes through your GI system without a chance to reveal its toxic parts. Actually I remember that fried bread never made me as bloated as all the other forms of gluten, so maybe this theory is not totally wrong. Not that I would try to test it now.

PS: just a side note, frozen french fries in Europe are often coated with wheat flour for crispier taste = shared frier problem solved, most of the time.

[Oboysfun]

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted confirmation on what I all ready knew. I am still a little new to the celiac do's and don'ts. Well now I am gonna go back and educate the manager.

Again thanks everyone for your reply,

3 out of 5 with Celiac,
Dave O.

[irish daveyboy]

Oboysfun, on 18 March 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted confirmation on what I all ready knew. I am still a little new to the celiac do's and don'ts. Well now I am gonna go back and educate the manager.

Again thanks everyone for your reply,

3 out of 5 with Celiac,
Dave O.

I think the IMPORTANT parts of the article are these.

What that means in essence is that you must chemically change the molecule. Usually this would be accomplished through oxidation or pyrolysis.
If for some reason you were interested in doing this, you would want to heat the material to at least 350 C (650 F) for 30 minutes, and you would need to have some way of proving that every part of the material (and especially any interior parts) had been exposed to that temperature for the entire length of time.

You wouldn't be eating fries at that stage it would a black inedible mess.

Gluten is quite a robust little protein, not an ordinary feeble protein, and it does quite well under harsh conditions. It’s a tough nut to crack, and very definitely a difficult material to degrade chemically or thermally.”

Then in the Comments.

I would then wonder what ill effects long term would there be in heating a protein so high it’s no longer recognized by the body.
when you change something chemically to make it less harmful in one way it often ends up being far more harmful in another.

Bottom line is Don't chance it!

Best Regards,
David

[truthinhealth]

So, on a similar note, if a pan was used to cook a flour tortilla, then wiped down but not washed, and the same pan was later used to cook a corn tortilla, would the risk of contamination still be present? Thanks for your feedback

[irish daveyboy]

truthinhealth, on 25 March 2010 - 08:26 PM, said:

So, on a similar note, if a pan was used to cook a flour tortilla, then wiped down but not washed, and the same pan was later used to cook a corn tortilla, would the risk of contamination still be present? Thanks for your feedback

Most Definitely,
Some time ago in a supermarket a woman was sampling smoked salmon on brown bread
she asked my friend did she want to try some, she said yes,
she then turned to me and said it was the nicest salmon she had in ages.

The lady offering the samples asked me if I'd like to try some, I told here I was a Coeliac and couldn't eat bread.

She said my neighbours daughter is a Coeliac and I know she can eat fish, just try the fish on it's own.

It looked really good so I agreed, she cut a large piece of smoked salmon and lifted it up on the knife, I took it and eat it.
It was only then I noticed it was the same knife she spead butter on the bread with.

I thought can't possibly do any harm, right ... WRONG !!
6 hours later I had severe cramping, vomiting and Diarrhoea which lasted 4 days.
If that can happen just from cutting salmon with knife that spead butter on bread.
I'd hate to think of the consequences of eating a Corn Tortilla from a wheat flour contaminated pan.

Best Regards,
David