Eggs/Cancer/Keto

[yogajc]

I found an old thread in here about egg intolerance but can no longer locate it. I'm 69 and have celiac and lymphocytic colitis diagnosis since 2010, after 10 years prior of illness (which I figure was related to gluten). Post-diagnosis I went totally gluten-free but continued with leaky gut symptoms for 1-2 years after. Became lactose-intolerant which has since resolved, but I continue to have issues with eggs. I can digest them if baked into something or when hard-boiled (i.e., egg salad with mayo), but to eat a scrambled/fried/omelette I become queasy, have cramps, etc. so I avoid them. Three years ago I was diagnosed with Diffuse Large B-cell Lymphoma/Primary Vitreo-retinal Lymphoma (a form of central nervous system lymphoma) and recalled that a celiac has much higher probability of lymphoma. Anyway, in working with my oncologist, a strong recommendation is to eat a ketogenic diet, which, in my observation, is extremely low carb and relies heavily on animal products, especially eggs for breakfast foods. I am trying to figure out how to make this dietary shift since I don't eat much meat, can't eat eggs, won't eat coconut oils, etc. My questions here are: has anyone resolved egg intolerances or found substitutions? Is anyone happily/successfully on keto, despite certain food limitations? Have others been diagnosed with lymphoma of any kind? Hoping to learn from others and to share my experiences, if relevant.  

[plumbago]

Hi @yogajc

I hope some regular commenters reply to you. Having been intrigued, impressed by and interested in the success of the ketogenic diet, particularly as it pertains to metabolic and blood vessel health, I have not ever attempted to seriously maintain myself on it, having been daunted by many of the same issues you are. However, in my many forays online about it (tuit nutrition for example), I do understand that it's indeed possible to go keto without being so reliant on animal products and have found many resources that can help. Further, it seems that people are able to combine keto with time-restricted feeding (some call it intermittent fasting, but to me that term is not accurate, as a fast is 24 hours at least without food).

Plumbago

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, yojgajc! 

I'm 69 years old and seemed to have developed and egg intolerance as well. I can eat two poached eggs without a problem but if they are scrambled they give me a belly ache. I think that is very odd. Why would fixing them one way give issues but an alternative cooking method render them inoffensive? Anyway, I bought one of these to make the egg poaching easy: https://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Ware-64702-Microwave-Poacher/dp/B00LQOMXDG/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=Egg+poacher&qid=1610815375&sr=8-24

You mention you don't each much meat. Does meat also give you digestive issues or is it a philosophical choice?

I use a lot of gluten free hot cereal products for breakfast and get the protein I used to get from eggs by making a protein shake consisting of milk, whey protein and soy protein. I also use a high potency multi vitamin, B complex and some other vitamins and mineral supplements (all gluten-free) to make up for not getting those things in eggs regularly. Eggs are a powerhouse of nutrition.

[plumbago]

24 minutes ago, trents said:

use a lot of gluten free hot cereal products for breakfast

But that's not keto. ?

[GFinDC]

Hi yogajc,

Have you tried digestive enzymes and Betaine HCL?  Those may help you digest the eggs better.

 

[trents]

30 minutes ago, plumbago said:

But that's not keto. ?

True. Forgot the OP's physician suggested a ketogenic diet. 

[yogajc]

1 hour ago, plumbago said:

Hi @yogajc

I hope some regular commenters reply to you. Having been intrigued, impressed by and interested in the success of the ketogenic diet, particularly as it pertains to metabolic and blood vessel health, I have not ever attempted to seriously maintain myself on it, having been daunted by many of the same issues you are. However, in my many forays online about it (tuit nutrition for example), I do understand that it's indeed possible to go keto without being so reliant on animal products and have found many resources that can help. Further, it seems that people are able to combine keto with time-restricted feeding (some call it intermittent fasting, but to me that term is not accurate, as a fast is 24 hours at least without food).

Plumbago

Thanks for the response. I will have a look at Tuit Nutrition.

 

[yogajc]

1 hour ago, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, yojgajc! 

I'm 69 years old and seemed to have developed and egg intolerance as well. I can eat two poached eggs without a problem but if they are scrambled they give me a belly ache. I think that is very odd. Why would fixing them one way give issues but an alternative cooking method render them inoffensive? Anyway, I bought one of these to make the egg poaching easy: https://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Ware-64702-Microwave-Poacher/dp/B00LQOMXDG/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=Egg+poacher&qid=1610815375&sr=8-24

You mention you don't each much meat. Does meat also give you digestive issues or is it a philosophical choice?

I use a lot of gluten free hot cereal products for breakfast and get the protein I used to get from eggs by making a protein shake consisting of milk, whey protein and soy protein. I also use a high potency multi vitamin, B complex and some other vitamins and mineral supplements (all gluten-free) to make up for not getting those things in eggs regularly. Eggs are a powerhouse of nutrition.

Thanks for the response. I do eat meat (mostly chicken) a few times a week but try to limit it due to saturated fats. I also am on many supplements as part of my "starving cancer" protocol.

1 hour ago, plumbago said:

But that's not keto. ?

Keto diet my oncologist recommends is less than 20 grams a day of carbs, which pretty much limits any carbs to greens, not legumes or grains. Most keto diets I've looked at allow up to 50 grams a day.

[Scott Adams]

I too had chicken egg intolerance for a few years before and after my diagnosis. I could tolerate duck eggs with no issues. The can be found at farmer’s markets and Asian supermarkets, but if you get them at the latter beware that the also sell them with a developed embryo inside (a delicacy in parts of Asia, they are normally marked with a red Sharpie mark on top of each egg), and salted duck eggs, which are hard boiled preserved versions. Fresh ones are often marked with a black Sharpie mark on each egg.

[trents]

Any feathers yet on those developing duck egg embryos? I think I'll pass on that one.

Haven't tried duck eggs but I tried goose eggs once. Didn't like them. Tasted very different than chicken eggs.

[yogajc]

5 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

I too had chicken egg intolerance for a few years before and after my diagnosis. I could tolerate duck eggs with no issues. The can be found at farmer’s markets and Asian supermarkets, but if you get them at the latter beware that the also sell them with a developed embryo inside (a delicacy in parts of Asia, they are normally marked with a red Sharpie mark on top of each egg), and salted duck eggs, which are hard boiled preserved versions. Fresh ones are often marked with a black Sharpie mark on each egg.

Thanks for the tip on the embryonic duck egg! That would send me into full-on vegan-mode. LOL I might consider duck eggs sans embryo if I find that eggs are essential to my new diet and once covid subsides so I can go shopping again.

3 hours ago, trents said:

Any feathers yet on those developing duck egg embryos? I think I'll pass on that one.

Haven't tried duck eggs but I tried goose eggs once. Didn't like them. Tasted very different than chicken eggs.

Yeah, Trents, me, too on the embryos! 

[Scott Adams]

Yes on the feathers...and bones...I’ve never tried it, so can’t vouch vor it as a delicacy, Fresh duck eggs are great, and are almost always free range.

[knitty kitty]

Yogajc,

I found some articles that I hope will be helpful.

 

"Thiamine deficiency in patients with B-chronic lymphocytic leukaemia: a pilot study"

https://pmj.bmj.com/content/77/911/582

 

"B-cell lymphoma, thiamine deficiency, and lactic acidosis"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5242120/

 

"Visual loss and optic nerve head swelling in thiamine deficiency without prolonged dietary deficiency"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039400/

(I've had similar problems.  I'm legally blind after my thiamine deficiency experience.)

 

"Biotin deficiency stimulates survival pathways in human lymphoma cells exposed to antineoplastic drugs"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15681168/

(Biotin - and Magnesium - are friends of thiamine.)

 

"Causes of Thiamine Deficiency"

http://thiamine.dnr.cornell.edu/Thiamine_causes.html

(Sulfites break thiamine apart making it useless.)

 

"Why Molybdenum Is an Essential Nutrient"

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/molybdenum

 

"Considerations for the diagnosis and management of sulphite sensitivity"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017445/#!po=47.2222

 

I have a sulfite hypersensitivity.  I couldn't eat eggs for the longest time, but I have taken molybdenum (and thiamine) and can now enjoy eggs again.  Though I'm not willing to try those embryonic eggs!  

I recommend the book by Sarah Ballantyne  "The Paleo Approach" which explains the Autoimmune Paleo diet which promotes healing.  She explains the keto diet. 

On the keto diet, you are supposed to eat meat and fats.  Saturated fats are broken down and turned into energy (with the help of thiamine).  It takes about three days for your body to switch over from burning carbohydrates for energy to burning fats for energy.  To keep your body burning fats, you have to limit carbs, like your doctor suggested.  It gets easier the longer you stay on the diet.  Your body "runs" better on the keto diet.  Break that mindset that thinks you HAVE to have carbs.  You will feel better on Keto.

Hope this helps!

[yogajc]

2 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Yogajc,

I found some articles that I hope will be helpful.

 

"Thiamine deficiency in patients with B-chronic lymphocytic leukaemia: a pilot study"

https://pmj.bmj.com/content/77/911/582

 

"B-cell lymphoma, thiamine deficiency, and lactic acidosis"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5242120/

 

"Visual loss and optic nerve head swelling in thiamine deficiency without prolonged dietary deficiency"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039400/

(I've had similar problems.  I'm legally blind after my thiamine deficiency experience.)

 

"Biotin deficiency stimulates survival pathways in human lymphoma cells exposed to antineoplastic drugs"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15681168/

(Biotin - and Magnesium - are friends of thiamine.)

 

"Causes of Thiamine Deficiency"

http://thiamine.dnr.cornell.edu/Thiamine_causes.html

(Sulfites break thiamine apart making it useless.)

 

"Why Molybdenum Is an Essential Nutrient"

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/molybdenum

 

"Considerations for the diagnosis and management of sulphite sensitivity"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017445/#!po=47.2222

 

I have a sulfite hypersensitivity.  I couldn't eat eggs for the longest time, but I have taken molybdenum (and thiamine) and can now enjoy eggs again.  Though I'm not willing to try those embryonic eggs!  

I recommend the book by Sarah Ballantyne  "The Paleo Approach" which explains the Autoimmune Paleo diet which promotes healing.  She explains the keto diet. 

On the keto diet, you are supposed to eat meat and fats.  Saturated fats are broken down and turned into energy (with the help of thiamine).  It takes about three days for your body to switch over from burning carbohydrates for energy to burning fats for energy.  To keep your body burning fats, you have to limit carbs, like your doctor suggested.  It gets easier the longer you stay on the diet.  Your body "runs" better on the keto diet.  Break that mindset that thinks you HAVE to have carbs.  You will feel better on Keto.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for all the links! I will read them and see if they fit. I have been taking B's and biotin for awhile. How did you thiamine get checked?

My MD also said to check out autoimmune keto but that I wouldn't like it much (LOL). Right now I'm tracking daily carbs to see where I'm at vs. goal. Still a ways to go. Not sure I could overcome my resistance to eating a lot of meat in order to go Paleo but to be determined. Health, especially once compromised, is definitely a journey. Be well.

[knitty kitty]

Yogajc,

The most accurate test is the erythrocyte transketolase test used to determine how much thiamine has been used by your body.  

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-testing-understanding-labs/

Blood tests for vitamins aren't always accurate because vitamins are used inside cells.  The body likes to keep a certain quantity of vitamins in the blood stream to provide important organs (like the brain and heart) with what they need, while other tissues and organs don't have any vitamin stores left inside their cells.  By the time a deficiency shows up in a blood test, the deficiency is severe.  Subclinical deficiencies can go undetected for years.  

 

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-cancer/

 

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/rapidly-deteriorating-health-thiamine-deficiency/

I continue taking high dose thiamine (allithiamine and benfotiamine) as Dr. Lonsdale describes on the hormones matter website.

Hope this helps make your journey easier! 

[yogajc]

4 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Yogajc,

The most accurate test is the erythrocyte transketolase test used to determine how much thiamine has been used by your body.  

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-testing-understanding-labs/

Blood tests for vitamins aren't always accurate because vitamins are used inside cells.  The body likes to keep a certain quantity of vitamins in the blood stream to provide important organs (like the brain and heart) with what they need, while other tissues and organs don't have any vitamin stores left inside their cells.  By the time a deficiency shows up in a blood test, the deficiency is severe.  Subclinical deficiencies can go undetected for years.  

 

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-cancer/

 

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/rapidly-deteriorating-health-thiamine-deficiency/

I continue taking high dose thiamine (allithiamine and benfotiamine) as Dr. Lonsdale describes on the hormones matter website.

Hope this helps make your journey easier! 

Thanks again. I read all those articles (sure wish I had a degree in biochemistry!) I will discuss this with my MD. My celiac malabsorption is resolved, although my diet has had many legumes and rice in the past 10 years which seem to be a possible cause of thiamine deficiency (insufficient consumption, not eating foods supplemented with it). I'm taking benfotiamine and biotin as single supplements, and all the B's in a daily multi, at this point. I have no solid tumors that might be depleting thiamine, so more research and discussion with my doc needed. Thanks for the lead.

[knitty kitty]

You're very welcome.  

[knitty kitty]

Remember to discuss all the vitamins and minerals with your doctor.  People rarely have a single vitamin or mineral deficiency.  If you're low in one vitamin or mineral, you're probably low in more.  

Keep us posted on your progress!