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sillyactsue

Glutened Through The Skin And By Paper Plates?

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GFP,

Proteins/amino acids and large molecules are unable to cross the skin. Only very small molecules which are hydrophobic can cross the skin. Proteins and amino acids are large and for the most part hydrophilic. DDT and other pesticides are designed in such a way as to be small and hydrophobic and can definitely cross the skin.

glutamine is an amino acid not a protein. It's a special amino acid that crosses the BBB because glutamine is used for the production of neurotransmitters like epinephrine, and dopamine. As far as I know most other amino acids and definitely proteins do no cross the BBB.

I would definitely not worry about gluten crossing the skin, even through the use of cometics or shampoos.

How about amyloid protein?

In addition since amyloid cannot itself pass the BBB then could a similar mechanism be transmitting gliadin?

just out of interest do you accept he studies of neurological pathology with gluten?

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Doll,

You use a shampoo that contains wheat? I take it, then, that you do not have the habit of chewing your hair (like my daughter does) or sometimes pushing your hair out of your face right before taking a bite of food held in your hand (like many women do). I also take it to understand that you never find a strand of hair in your food after you have started eating. These are all ways that shampoo can cause a celiac reaction. As far as the cosmetics and lotions, do you ever touch your arms or belly? If your lotion has wheat, you can very easily ingest it that way. If you inhale something with wheat powder in it, yes, it will go into your lungs. Then you will cough it up. Sadly, you will not expectorate all of the wheat-containing mucous. Some of it will be inadvertently swallowed, and go into your intestinal tract. That is a fact of life, it is the way the human body works. The safest thing to do, therefore, is to avoid using all personal care products that contain gluten.

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If you inhale something with wheat powder in it, yes, it will go into your lungs. Then you will cough it up. Sadly, you will not expectorate all of the wheat-containing mucous. Some of it will be inadvertently swallowed, and go into your intestinal tract.

Actually unless you are ill or very old (or stick your whole head in a bag) very little wheat flour should reach the lungs... the filtering is pretty good on anything that sticks to water... and transfer it direct to the Mucociliary escalator ... and hence into the stomach.

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Hey gfp...Well, the gluten molecule would not "break down" on its own, so I think it's safe to say that your favorite body cream, etc. if safe for most Celiacs, even if it has wheat.

It is true that there is transdermal technology that is used to allow once larger molecules to penetrate the skin. BUT as far as I know, this is only used for vitamins, peptides, etc. I have never heard of a product which has used this technology for gluten, as there is no benefit that I am aware of by allowing the amino acids from gluten into the skin. Furthermore, if gluten is broken down into individual amino acids, it is not toxic to Celiacs. It is because Celiacs let in WHOLE gluten protein which causes the reaction. I also think that type of immune response for Celiac MUST start in the intestine. Of course, this info does not apply to those with an allergic response.

I guess I should clarify that I include those with "neurological" Celiac and seizure disorders related to gluten exposure as "Celiacs". Usually those people have high levels of antibodies. Their bodies are letting in whole gluten, so they have the "leaky gut", but they seem to have (genetic?) protection from intestinal damage.

I disagree with this whole heartedly. You may know the 'science' but I know how my body reacts, and after 4 years on the gluten-free diet I am quite familiar with what CC and a glutening feel like. I did NOT see a complete recovery of the majority of my problems until I eliminated gluten from all toiletries and other products. I have even been glutened by doing drywall, by the compound and the drywall itself and I certainly did not eat these. I most certainly do react to topical application and to breathing it in. Whatever the reason it is a gluten reaction. Incidentally my DS shows the same sensitivity, and others on the boards do also. There is much to still be learned about this toxin and blanket statements about stuff being safe can keep people from healing completely.

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Actually unless you are ill or very old (or stick your whole head in a bag) very little wheat flour should reach the lungs... the filtering is pretty good on anything that sticks to water... and transfer it direct to the Mucociliary escalator ... and hence into the stomach.

Here's my opinion on that. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and not meant to discredit anyone's personal experience.

If I remeber correctly large particles need to be less than 50 micrometers to be airborn (and be inhaled), and these particles are deposited in the outer or inner nose. In the outer nose they're sneezed out or blown out, in the inner nose they're swallowed with the mucus.

Particles less than 3-10 um are deposited in the trachea and bronchi and are swallowed later by movement of mucus upward. Between 1-3 um they go to the alveloi and remain there, and less than 1 um remains suspended in the alveolar air and gets breathed out again. I think gluten would fall into the 1um catgeory, but wheat particles would be larger. So if you breathed in gluten you would probably see it being deposited all along the airways, all the way to the terminal alveloi of the lungs. This would produce and inflamatory reaction all along the airways much before it would produce and inflamatory reaction in the gut because the airways especially the tonsilar region has much higher concentration of lymphoid tissue than the small intestines.

So if breathing in gluten would be a problem people with Celiac would have runny nose like in hay fever(from gluten in the nose), a sore throat (from gluten in the nasopharynx), chronic bronchitis, and pneumonitis, and diarrhea. Eventually they would have a disease resembling hypersensitivity pneumonitis and emphysema, wheezing, etc. There are diseases like this where breathing in an allergenic protein causes lung destruction, like farmer's pneumonitis (breathing in hay proteins) or pigeon breeder's pneumonitis. In Celiac the amount of gluten that is inhaled and swallowed is too minute to produce a reaction, or it produces a subclinical reaction.

So in my personal opinion people would celiac disease would not be expected to be sick from inhaling gluten or wheat partickes, because it would produce lung problems way before it produced intestinal problems. At least in theory.

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This is very interesting, I have no info to add except my own experiences that I wish I understood. But a lot of the times when I eat something I get a runny nose, immediately. At the moment I am eating an apple, which does not cause a runny nose. Also, a while back I ate one all fruit frozen bar, commercially made, & I got a pain in the back of my head right after that, it was so disturbing, that I did not eat another one of those. But I know that if I did, I would get the same pain in the same place. Also, when I eat some things I get a pain on the left side of my head. With the past two months when I would eat dairy I got an earache in about 20 minutes. I have cut out dairy. The other day I walked thru the grocery & they were baking & I did not really think anything about it, but by the time I got to the car, my ears were hurting. It went away in about 40 minutes. Any ideas anyone with what is going on here?

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The other day I walked thru the grocery & they were baking & I did not really think anything about it, but by the time I got to the car, my ears were hurting. It went away in about 40 minutes. Any ideas anyone with what is going on here?

For a while after I was first diagnosed I would get migraine auras, not the headaches just the flashes, whenever I went through the bakery dept. This was long before I knew about the link between my arthritis, migraines and neuro problems associated with celiac. My allergist told me tht this extreme sensitivity to airborne gluten would likely improve and it has. It just took time and healing. Of course I still don't linger near the ovens but the more extreme reaction has dissapated a bit. Perhaps your pain is that sort of thing. Or maybe referred pain from a sinus reaction if you are prone to nasal allergies.

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First hand experience on the skin absorption topic:

  1. I used to use a wheaty sunblocking face lotion. It was Vitamin-E fortified. 10 minutes after I put it on, my face would get puffy and my eyes would tear up and get red. The moisturizer was not getting anywhere near my mouth.
  2. I assume the wheat was going through my thin eyelids and tearducts. It was extremely uncomfortable and not effective as a moisturizer! =P
  3. I used to use wheaty bath gels without realizing it. Any sensitive areas would get irritated. Before I knew my daughter was celiac, it happened to her, too.
  4. Bottom line: Stear clear of those wheat-germ fortified shampoos, soaps, gels, etc., and any body product with wheat. It can be a big problem, even if you can't tell immediately!

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First hand experience on the skin absorption topic:

  1. I used to use a wheaty sunblocking face lotion. It was Vitamin-E fortified. 10 minutes after I put it on, my face would get puffy and my eyes would tear up and get red. The moisturizer was not getting anywhere near my mouth.
  2. I assume the wheat was going through my thin eyelids and tearducts. It was extremely uncomfortable and not effective as a moisturizer! =P
  3. I used to use wheaty bath gels without realizing it. Any sensitive areas would get irritated. Before I knew my daughter was celiac, it happened to her, too.
  4. Bottom line: Stear clear of those wheat-germ fortified shampoos, soaps, gels, etc., and any body product with wheat. It can be a big problem, even if you can't tell immediately!

All of the above that you describe are topical allergic reactions and not an internal, Celiac related reaction. There is a huge difference. It is not uncommon for Celiacs to have topical allergies also.

Many people do not take the time to read up on allergies vs. intolerances so mistake these types of reactions for an intolerance type reaction. You have to ingest gluten into your GI tract for a Celiac reaction to occur. The vast majority of Celiac researchers and doctors will counsel their patients on how gluten cannot be absorbed through the skin so it is safe to use products unless you have an additional allergy or you think it may be ingested. If they were wrong, many, many Celiacs would be a whole lot sicker and their recovery would be compromised.

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I guess I should clarify that I include those with "neurological" Celiac and seizure disorders related to gluten exposure as "Celiacs". Usually those people have high levels of antibodies. Their bodies are letting in whole gluten, so they have the "leaky gut", but they seem to have (genetic?) protection from intestinal damage.

Ok, how about we take this one step further and realize, celiac is not all there is to gluten intolerance. Like has been said many times, celiac is simply one tiny part of gluten intolerance, it is not the end stage. Maybe those of us who get much worse reactions, have a stronger case of intolerance than those who are celiac. Also, maybe you can have celiac disease, and still stuffer some of the same issues a gluten intolerant person does.

It's like so many have said...nothing has been proven, no one has sciencifically proven we absolutely can not absorb gluten through the skin, and no one has proven we can. Some of us do, some of us don't. We react, and that's all we need to know.

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First hand experience on the skin absorption topic:

  1. I used to use a wheaty sunblocking face lotion. It was Vitamin-E fortified. 10 minutes after I put it on, my face would get puffy and my eyes would tear up and get red. The moisturizer was not getting anywhere near my mouth.
  2. I assume the wheat was going through my thin eyelids and tearducts. It was extremely uncomfortable and not effective as a moisturizer! =P
  3. I used to use wheaty bath gels without realizing it. Any sensitive areas would get irritated. Before I knew my daughter was celiac, it happened to her, too.
  4. Bottom line: Stear clear of those wheat-germ fortified shampoos, soaps, gels, etc., and any body product with wheat. It can be a big problem, even if you can't tell immediately!

What is much more likely as far as the eyes and face is concerned, especially if you experience other glutened symptoms, is that the gluten containing ingredients are coming into contact with your mucous membranes. In all that can include the eyes and nose and in females bathing in or with gluten can introduce it into the mucous membranes in the vagina. The ability of gluten to cross the mucous membranes is scientifically established. If you do a search using the terms celiac and mucous membrane challenge you will see peer reviewed research that confirms this. In more forward countries they test for celiac by using gluten suppositories placed either in the rectum or into contact with the oral mucous membranes. There is also of course the possibility that you are having a true allergic reaction to topical application.

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First hand experience on the skin absorption topic:

  1. I used to use a wheaty sunblocking face lotion. It was Vitamin-E fortified. 10 minutes after I put it on, my face would get puffy and my eyes would tear up and get red. The moisturizer was not getting anywhere near my mouth.
  2. I assume the wheat was going through my thin eyelids and tearducts. It was extremely uncomfortable and not effective as a moisturizer! =P
  3. I used to use wheaty bath gels without realizing it. Any sensitive areas would get irritated. Before I knew my daughter was celiac, it happened to her, too.
  4. Bottom line: Stear clear of those wheat-germ fortified shampoos, soaps, gels, etc., and any body product with wheat. It can be a big problem, even if you can't tell immediately!

This is what I think. Sunscreens can be very irritating to the eyes--gluten aside. It can take trying a few different ones to find one with ingredients that you can tolerate. Maybe one made specifically for faces, and be very careful around the eyes.

I personally have had the exact same reaction to sunscreen--for me it was an allergic reaction.

Although I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, I don't believe that gluten is absorbed through the skin. I do, however, completely believe that some of us are so sensitive that a miniscule amount of gluten introduced into our mouths can cause a reaction. Anything that you bathe in or slather on yourself has a very good chance of getting into your mouth.

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I guess I think that what someone else has chosen to believe (doctor, scientist or fellow ill person) is irrelevant. If I experience problems with gluten containing products, then I shouldn't eat them. I would expect every individual to make their own assessment.

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If I experience problems with gluten containing products, then I shouldn't eat them.

When it comes down to it, this is the best advice--if it makes you sick, don't use/eat it. Pretty simple :)

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