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Electra

Ok So Do I Consider Modified Food Starch Glutan Or Not?

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I went on the internet and looked up modified food starch and If I understand it correctly it's a chain of gluten ingredients, but since they have the new laws about listing wheat can I assume that modified food starch in most things is fine?

I was making corn chowder tonight and the cream corn I was using said modified food starch so I didn't use it. Are veggies with modified food starch safe? Supposably if it's made in the US and says modified food starch then more then likely it's ok unless it lists gluten or wheat ingredients too.

Can someone clear this up for me?

Thanks so much everyone!!


~~Angie~~

DX'd With Narcolepsy In 1995

Dx'ed With Celiac On 12-18-06

Positive Biopsy On 2-1-07

DX'd With Pernicious Anemia 4-24-07

Daughter Has DH, so I suspect she also has Celiac!!

"If Alcoholism was Celiac Disease they would make us drink ourselves into kidney failure before they would admit we had the disease"

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Because of the 2006 Food Labeling Law, if it says modified food starch and doesn't list wheat, it is safe. If it has wheat, it must be listed.

Its not necessarily a chain of gluten (not glutan!) ... its often corn starch, potato starch, tapioca starch, and of course, can be wheat starch---but will be listed.

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Its not necessarily a chain of gluten (not glutan!) ... its often corn starch, potato starch, tapioca starch, and of course, can be wheat starch---but will be listed.

Sorry I know it's gluten but for some reason when I'm typing it always comes out glutan lol!!


~~Angie~~

DX'd With Narcolepsy In 1995

Dx'ed With Celiac On 12-18-06

Positive Biopsy On 2-1-07

DX'd With Pernicious Anemia 4-24-07

Daughter Has DH, so I suspect she also has Celiac!!

"If Alcoholism was Celiac Disease they would make us drink ourselves into kidney failure before they would admit we had the disease"

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The labeling law is in effect, but I think the companies have a certain amount of time before they have to change their labels. Some products still do not list the allergens and as long as they do not list them, then I will not trust modified food starch, we can't trust it.


Deb

Long Island, NY

Double DQ1, subtype 6

We urge all doctors to take time to listen to your patients.. don't "isolate" symptoms but look at the whole spectrum. If a patient tells you s/he feels as if s/he's falling apart and "nothing seems to be working properly", chances are s/he's right!

"The calm river of your life approaches the rocky chute of the rapids - flow on through. You are the same water. The rocks cannot hurt you. Remember, now and then, that you are the water and not the boat. Flow on!

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Deb, the law was signed in August 2004, and the labeling law took effect Jan 1 2006. So companies had plenty of time in between before they had to comply (hence, which is why there was a delay in the actual effect date).

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:( I had a horrible reaction last night from some yogurt that contained MFS. I think you need to be concerned WHERE it was packaged. Mine was from Aldi's plain yogurt. i didn't check the label before using it - it was last minute and I just grabbed it. I didn't even think (I'm so new at it). It is ABSOLUTELY the only way there was gluten. The pans, cutting board and utensils I used were scrupulously cleaned. Every other ingredient was fresh, or had "gluten free" ont he label.

I'm not going to trust MFS. no matter what the labelling law is!

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Even before the labeling law the fact is MFS was almost never made from wheat. Extremely rare. It is indeed possible that manufacturers can still be using old labels, but that's also getting more and more rare. These days, MFS is very low on the list if gluten concerns.

richard

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The labeling law is in effect, but I think the companies have a certain amount of time before they have to change their labels. Some products still do not list the allergens and as long as they do not list them, then I will not trust modified food starch, we can't trust it.

I absolutely agree! Unless it says (from corn) after it, I refuse to eat it.

Labels are not reliable. Planters dusts their nuts with wheat to keep them from being oily, and they just pay a fine not to put it on the label. They've been given a time limit but I see no help in sight. ... Stupid honey roasted peanuts I used to eat like every DAY!!


Will no longer be posting or reading replies. Bye.

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Even before the labeling law the fact is MFS was almost never made from wheat. Extremely rare. This is so not true Richard. It is a well known fact that "modified food starch" could not be trusted. Many celiacs have been glutened by MFS. We could not trust cottage cheese for a very long time or yogurts because of MFS. It's amazing, you always have an opinion, yet you never have sites to back yourself up, yet you always tell others they must prove their opinions. Where I come from, that is called, "The pot calling the kettle black!"

This is what I just found online about our new labeling law:

A caution:

The Act applies to all product labels created after Jan 1, 2006. Be aware that there will be a transition period of undetermined length during which products that were labeled prior to the law taking effect will remain on store shelves and in home pantries. This is especially crucial for children with food allergies, who may think that all product labels magically changed on the law's effective date. This is from this site:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/healthinfo...nglaws2006.html Please feel free to go read it yourself. I know this is true and I did find the proof to back myself up!!!

Until every product is following the new law, then I will not trust MFS until the label says I can and then sometimes I am not sure. Ice Cream sometimes still does not contain allergens on the packaging and that can't be that old. The law is not being inforced as of yet and until it is, some companies will not comply until busted a few times!


Deb

Long Island, NY

Double DQ1, subtype 6

We urge all doctors to take time to listen to your patients.. don't "isolate" symptoms but look at the whole spectrum. If a patient tells you s/he feels as if s/he's falling apart and "nothing seems to be working properly", chances are s/he's right!

"The calm river of your life approaches the rocky chute of the rapids - flow on through. You are the same water. The rocks cannot hurt you. Remember, now and then, that you are the water and not the boat. Flow on!

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isn't there date on all packaged items that we should be able to look for and gurantee that the label is new?


Christine

15 year old twins with celiac, diagnosed dec. 2005

11 year old daughter with celiac diagnosed dec 2005

17 year old son with celiac gene

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Even before the labeling law the fact is MFS was almost never made from wheat. Extremely rare. It is indeed possible that manufacturers can still be using old labels, but that's also getting more and more rare. These days, MFS is very low on the list if gluten concerns.

richard

I had heard that too. But it was the only questionable ingredient which I why I was blaming that. I heard that if it's from a foreign source it can be from wheat - but a US source is not "usually" wheat. The Yogurt was from Aldi so it is ENTIRELY possible that the source is foreign and that is why. I don't know. Don't plan on trying again to find out why! :D

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Guest cassidy

To be safe if a product has msf and is made by the companies that don't hide gluten, like Kraft, and doesn't have wheat listed on the label, then I assume it is ok. If it is not made one of the companies on that list then I usually check the website or contact the company just to be sure.

I have found that after a year I don't eat that many new products so I'm not having to check tons of products each week like I did in the beginning. I usually play things very safe because I'm very sensitive.

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If it is from corn, companies are NOT required to list it. Corn is not an 8 main allergen, so if it says modified food starch (and the source is corn), by law, it does not have to be listed. Same with potato starch, etc.

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in a year or so I will trust the stores to be stocking correctly labeled stuff. until then, I will err conservatively.

Although I will say, yogurt should be rotated enough to have accurate labels. Which leads to the question: If the yogurt manufacturer gets their MFS from a source that didn't label it (wheat) how would they know? What are the guidelines for 3rd and 4th level ingredients and how soon can we trust that the labels for ingredients of ingredients have been propagated?

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Deb, I really can't understand why you'd get so upset that I'd say that MFS with gluten was more rare than people had thought in the past. If you've followed discussions and opinions from experts there's just no question at all this is true. Thinking about numerous ingedients has changed over the years, and this is one of them. Never ever did I say MFS NEVER is made from wheat and nowhere do I tell anybody not to check it. It is, however, a celiac myth that MFS was a major problem, at least in the past five years.

Here's what Scott says. Although I can't find links, this is also the opinion of GIG, Ann Whelan and others. This has been true for many years now:

"1) If this ingredient is made in North America it is likely to be gluten-free."

"It is a well known fact that "modified food starch" could not be trusted. Many celiacs have been glutened by MFS. We could not trust cottage cheese for a very long time or yogurts because of MFS."

I've checked numerous cottage cheeses over the years and NEVER found one with gluten. In fact, this guide to naturally gluten-free products specifically lists cottage cheese as naturally safe. http://www.celiachealth.org/pdf/GlutenFreeDietGuideWeb.pdf

MFS was never the problem in yogurts, it was the fact that the flavors were sometimes extracted using alcohol. Stoneyfield, for example, finally acknowledged that this was the ONLY reason they told us not to eat their flavored yogurts. If you believe distilled alcohol is safe, yogurt is safe.

"The Act applies to all product labels created after Jan 1, 2006. Be aware that there will be a transition period of undetermined length during which products that were labeled prior to the law taking effect will remain on store shelves and in home pantries."

The American Celiac Disease Alliance (this is the group that pushed the allergen legislation through) estimated it would take 12-18 months to clear all old products. I think it's pretty obvious that certain products -- ice cream, anything dairy, frozen products -- have a limited shelf life and there's no way any of those were manufactured more than a year ago. By law they must list wheat now (and I've NEVER heard of MFS being made from barley, rye or oats, have you?). So the main concern at this point would be canned products. I really hope nobody's eating year-old yogurt or cottage cheese.

"It's amazing, you always have an opinion, yet you never have sites to back yourself up, yet you always tell others they must prove their opinions."

Of course I don't ALWAYS have an opinion. In fact, you won't find my name on the majority of threads because I either don't have an opinion or I don't know enough to contribute to the topic. I am not a scientifically oriented person so I generally stay away from science discussions. Because I don't have celiac children I rarely comment on those topics, other than to occasionally repeat something I have read. I don't have a word to say about cosmetics, "female" problems, pregnancy, ADA, converting to gluten-free flours in recipes, and many more. I comment on the tax deduction issue but not to claim I know the answer.

I do sometimes give my opinion without links and I most certainly do challenge certain claims, such as the inference that cellulose might contain gluten. I warn people about certain pitfalls, but I also, when I think it's appropriate, try to ease their anxiety about things that just don't warrant any or a lot of concern.

richard

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I've checked numerous cottage cheeses over the years and NEVER found one with gluten. In fact, this guide to naturally gluten-free products specifically lists cottage cheese as naturally safe. http://www.celiachealth.org/pdf/GlutenFreeDietGuideWeb.pdf

richard

Richard, when I was first diagnosed (less than one year ago), I checked my cottage cheese, which DID contain modified food starch. It was either a low-fat or a fat-free cottage cheese, and those, along with low-fat and fat-free ice creams, OFTEN contain either modified food starch or wheat as thickeners (if you don't believe me, check the ingredient list for Edy's French Silk Ice Cream).

In addition, I made frequent phone calls to manufacturers, whose representatives either told me that their modified food starch was from wheat, or that they could not confirm the source.

If you really want to "ease people's anxiety," as you say, you might put a little more effort into being courteous to those with whom you disagree. Your habit has been to slam people whom you think are wrong. Perhaps you are not aware of the anxiety your posts cause to the people you are slamming. This anxiety is not because of your opinion. It is because of the caustic and condescending way that you express it.

As Deb said, you demand proof from the people you disagree with, yet you rarely bother to provide links yourself. In this last post, you did provide a link, but if you read Table 2 onthat link, "thickeners" is listed as something to AVOID. That is precisely what modified food starch is--a thickener.

As for the cellulose issue, I only wondered whether we should question whether it might be made from wheat. I never claimed that all cellulose IS made from wheat, I only thought that it was worth looking into the source of cellulose, and I posted the link that brought that question to my mind. While I had every right to do so, you did NOT have any right to blast me for it.

Your handling of the "cellulose issue" was totally out of line. Your handling of the MFS issue isn't great, either, in my opinion. It doesn't matter if glutening by MFS is "more rare than people thought in the past;" what matters (especially to those who are glutened by MFS that is, for whatever reason, not clearly labeled gluten) is that it can and DOES happen.

When you say that they must have been glutened by something else, and they are sure that it WAS the MFS, that's just like the doctors telling us that our glutening symptoms are either in our head or caused by something else.

Maybe you've never had to go through that. Or maybe you just don't care how unhappy you make other people.

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To begin with, I never, ever said modified food starch is made with barley or rye, I simply stated at some point that barley and rye are not included in the list of allergens that companies must list on products and that we must always worry about that too. Barley is used as an additive in cereals.

Richard, just as Fiddle-Faddle says--it is your condensending attitude that gets to me. You always have this, "I know more than any of you" attitude. You rarely ever back any of your rants, you just tend to insult others.

I too have found cottage cheese and yogurts that contains MFS that is wheat based. In Michigan there is a company named Dean's Foods that always stated they would not say their foods were gluten-free, they also said they did not use dedicated lines, we never purchased their dairy produsts for that very reason! American Foods here, a Waldbaum and A&P product will not answer emails about their products, so I will not purchase them either. There are still products that are not listing the allergens, mainly because they have not been caught yet, the law is too new. Many ice creams do not list allergens, as of yet. We have to be our own food police, we can't count on a law to cover us.

"1) If this ingredient is made in North America it is likely to be gluten-free."Richard, read your own proof here, it says, "likely!" It does not say "never!"

I really hope nobody's eating year-old yogurt or cottage cheese.This Richard, is the condensending attitude we are speaking of. None of us are crazy enough to eat anything dairy this old, yet you have to make it sound like we are fools. Yes, reading between the lines is allowed.

Just as you have always been condensending with me over coffee. You have never been glutened by coffee, so there for it can never happen to anyone else.

I feel you need to "practice what you preach!" Back your theories up just as you want us too. I always back mine with links or personal experience--do you?


Deb

Long Island, NY

Double DQ1, subtype 6

We urge all doctors to take time to listen to your patients.. don't "isolate" symptoms but look at the whole spectrum. If a patient tells you s/he feels as if s/he's falling apart and "nothing seems to be working properly", chances are s/he's right!

"The calm river of your life approaches the rocky chute of the rapids - flow on through. You are the same water. The rocks cannot hurt you. Remember, now and then, that you are the water and not the boat. Flow on!

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"I feel you need to "practice what you preach!" Back your theories up just as you want us too. I always back mine with links or personal experience--do you?"

I absolutely always without question base my comments on experience, either my own and that of others. And often the comments are also based on things I've read, although I don't always have a link. I'm not pulling these things out of thin air.

"I too have found cottage cheese and yogurts that contains MFS that is wheat based. In Michigan there is a company named Dean's Foods that always stated they would not say their foods were gluten-free, they also said they did not use dedicated lines, we never purchased their dairy produsts for that very reason! American Foods here, a Waldbaum and A&P product will not answer emails about their products, so I will not purchase them either."

Do these cottage cheeses and yogurts list the wheat? If so, fine, it's easy to tell they're not gluten-free. If they don't, they're violating the law. You need to report them. Seriously. I would in an instant. However, the samples you give here are companies saying they either won't "guarantee" or they won't respond, not ones saying they contain wheat in MFS.

"1) If this ingredient is made in North America it is likely to be gluten-free."Richard, read your own proof here, it says, "likely!" It does not say "never!"

Deb, I said all along, in the first post and in the reply, that wheat in MFS is much rarer than people used to believe. I repeat once again, I NEVER ever said it never happened. Please explain why you think I said that.

I'm sorry you don't like the way I reply sometimes, and I'm sure I could be more temperate at times, but it's also obvious you occasionally (note I did not say always) misread what I say (note that I'm NOT saying this is on purpose).

richard

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Slowly entering this conversation............. at the risk of entering a hornets nest :blink:

I have gained a great deal of knowledge by listening and learning from richard's posts. I respect his expertise tremendously. Nor, have I every been ill from any product information that he has posted.

With that said, I slide out the door.

Lisa


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

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"Richard, when I was first diagnosed (less than one year ago), I checked my cottage cheese, which DID contain modified food starch. It was either a low-fat or a fat-free cottage cheese, and those, along with low-fat and fat-free ice creams, OFTEN contain either modified food starch or wheat as thickeners (if you don't believe me, check the ingredient list for Edy's French Silk Ice Cream)."

Fiddle Faddle, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but I did not say cottage cheeses and yogurt don't ever contain MFS, I said I hadn't ever found one with gluten because of MFS. And since ice creams don't last for more than a year, any MFS in ice cream would now have to list wheat. Although we don't have that ice cream flavor where I live, I don't doubt you if you say it lists wheat. However, based on MY EXPERIENCE and not on any scientific study I can name, that's extremely rare in ice cream and is always clearly listed. I assume it's clearly listed on the Edy's. If not, please report it because that's no illegal.

"In this last post, you did provide a link, but if you read Table 2 onthat link, "thickeners" is listed as something to AVOID. That is precisely what modified food starch is--a thickener."

I've never known anybody, including the CSA, who said specifically that MFS is something to avoid. The warning I'm aware of is to check it, which I've always done until recently. I personally now consider MFS safe if it doesn't list wheat unless it's in a canned product. Soon even those will be safe -- unless they list wheat. This is not my opinion or me being superior, this is based on the allergen law.

"In addition, I made frequent phone calls to manufacturers, whose representatives either told me that their modified food starch was from wheat,..."

The most helpful thing (at least strictly in my opinion) is to note these manufacturers and the product and then post a specific list online, particularly since MFS rarely does contain gluten. I've done this in the past, such as noting the weird fact that I-Hop puts pancake batter in its omelet mix.

"As for the cellulose issue, I only wondered whether we should question whether it might be made from wheat. I never claimed that all cellulose IS made from wheat, I only thought that it was worth looking into the source of cellulose, and I posted the link that brought that question to my mind. While I had every right to do so, you did NOT have any right to blast me for it."

I reacted to the fact that you said that if you search for "cellulose" and "wheat," you get dozens of hits. That, to me, and once again it's just my personal opinion, suggests there's a strong possibility of gluten in cellulose. When I did the same search I came up with several links to the same study of Chinese scientists looking at making cellulose from wheat and a whole pile of results that had cellulose and wheat in the same article but nothing about making cellulose from wheat. To me, your response read like you were, by golly, going to prove I was wrong or at least cast doubt no matter what. If I misinterpreted that, I apologize.

"When you say that they must have been glutened by something else, and they are sure that it WAS the MFS, that's just like the doctors telling us that our glutening symptoms are either in our head or caused by something else."

Not only did I say that MFS rarely contained wheat, but I was also trying to explain that because of the product, if there's wheat in the MFS and it isn't listed, that's illegal. There's a way to report these things.

"Maybe you've never had to go through that. Or maybe you just don't care how unhappy you make other people."

While I'm certainly much less sensitive than some people here, undiagnosed celiac came within a hair of killing me more than 5 years ago. Fortunately, I had a good GI who tested for everything on the planet. I'm well aware of what celiac can do to a person.

I won't dignify your rude last comment with a reply.

And, yes, I know you've complained to Scott. I haven't and will not. And once again, I would prefer to have made this reply privately, but you asked me not to do so.

richard

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Well, as usual Richard, when someone questions your behavior, you double talk. You most certainly did say, "I've checked numerous cottage cheeses over the years and NEVER found one with gluten." NEVER is the word you used, the quote is directly from your post!

Just as you said, "MFS was never the problem in yogurts, it was the fact that the flavors were sometimes extracted using alcohol." Another NEVER in a post directly from you!

The real truth about the new labeling law is: It will not be truly in effect until they police the companies. Some companies will not follow the law until they are fined a few times. The fines are usually around $500 and that is nothing to these companies. The labeling law states the allergens must be listed and yet many products, and I mean new products, such as ice cream, still do not have the allergens listed. It is irresponsible for us to advice newbies to feel save with this law. I have been gluten free for over 5 yrs now and I know better than to feel safe.

And yes, you are correct about my posting about Dean's Foods, they did not say the products do contain gluten, yet they did not say they didn't either. They stated they would not say if the products are gluten free or not and to me, that means I will not touch that product!

As for this comment, "And often the comments are also based on things I've read, although I don't always have a link. I'm not pulling these things out of thin air." Everyone's comments here are based on something they have read or heard from another, which makes their point as valid as yours. Most of them also supply a link to what they are talking about, I rarely see you offer a link. You place judgment on people and it's not our place to judge. I understand that I am placing judgment on you also, yet I only do that after you slam something I say or someone else I care about, which is any celiac looking for guidance, which most of us are.

Mutual respect is needed, I am willing to try, are you?

Deb


Deb

Long Island, NY

Double DQ1, subtype 6

We urge all doctors to take time to listen to your patients.. don't "isolate" symptoms but look at the whole spectrum. If a patient tells you s/he feels as if s/he's falling apart and "nothing seems to be working properly", chances are s/he's right!

"The calm river of your life approaches the rocky chute of the rapids - flow on through. You are the same water. The rocks cannot hurt you. Remember, now and then, that you are the water and not the boat. Flow on!

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Obviously, this issue is not subject to resolve, at this point.

Perhaps, we should move on.


Lisa

Gluten Free - August 15, 2004

"Not all who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien

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Lisa, thank you for injecting a bit of much-needed levity here, and also for pointing out that Richard has been helpful. I agree--I would never have thought of reporting the cottage cheese manufacturer. Of course, this was only a couple of weeks after my diagnosis, so I was pretty much at my limit just trying to find things I could safely eat.

However, the issue here is not whether Richard can be helpful; I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that he can be. The problem is that he slams anyone who says anything he disagrees with--and I don't believe that kind of behavior should be tolerated here.

Richard, I am glad that you are aware that I complained to Scott. I assume that you are also aware that I asked that you NOT be banned or punished, but that you be made aware how unhappy you are making people. I did try to let you know this, and you lashed out at me. Your pm to me was really vicious; that is why I requested that you not pm me again.

You wrote: "I won't dignify your rude last comment with a reply." My last comment was not rude. In fact, I'll repeat it: Maybe you just don't care how unhappy you make other people. That's not rude of me to say. This whole back-and-forth between you and me has been about my saying, "Hey, you're really making me feel unhappy because you are lashing out at me for asking questions that you deem unworthy." And your response to my saying that is to lash out at me some more. How can I come to any conclusion other than that you just don't care?

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Wow it's a Saturday evening and I'm sitting here reading an online argument about modified food starch. Next time that "you know you're a celiac when" thread pops up I'm so adding this experience :ph34r:


"Let food be thy medicine, and let thy medicine be food." - Hippocrates

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