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Rachel--24

Omg...i Might Be On To Something

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The doctor you saw, IMO, is behaving in a criminal manner. I thought I had had bad experiences. :rolleyes: That your tests would show Lyme and she ignored them. :angry:

Yes, seems that way, but with Lyme she gets away with it. <_< I was IgG positive, which we all know for Lyme is positive. She said that it indicates past exposure, not active infection, yet the CDC says that after 6 weeks you have to be IgG positive for reporting purposes.

My LLMD looked at it and said it shows I have Lyme ... he said -- In case you were doubting, you for sure have Lyme. He said that band 30 or 31 having 3 pluses showed I had it for a very long time. That one is one of the last to show up.

So, it's important to go to the right person for treatment. With my local doc being holistic, I would have been tempted to go with her treatment, so I'm glad she had that reaction so I knew I needed to find someone else.

I think we all learn from each other, so it's good for us to share. :rolleyes: I see so many visitors on this page that I know we have other people learning from us, too.

I don't know about all of you, but from this I'm learning how strong of a person I really am!! If you haven't seen that in yourself, pay better attention. :)

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I've been thinking alot today about the things I listened to in Dr. K's interview. Trying to put puzzle pieces together and trying to determine if there are any emotional issues to be dealt with. :unsure:

So much of it makes sense....I wanna get some opinions on this (my own situation) but sort of ran out of time tonight. Will post about this stuff tomorrow.

Rachel, the Dr. K stuff is very interesting. It sounds as if he doesn't think Lyme needs to be treated??? That all the issues together cause a problem?

Or does he think the Lyme needs to be treated along side the other problems?

Maybe this is why my treatment seems to be going well. For those of you struggling with amalgams ... you will be SO GLAD you did this! I am so relieved that I did it already.

I'm just curious why my Lyme is such a problem in the absence of a big mercury problem or candida problem???? I'm curious how much of a role this bacterial dysbiosis problem is contributing to it all???

Carla...he has never said that Lyme doesnt need to be treated. All infections need to be identified and treated.

He is basically saying that in nearly all cases...heavy metals are at the *root* of the illness. Infections are secondary to that.

He is also saying that if you dig even deeper than the metal toxicity you will usually find unresolved emotional conflicts. The two things which trap toxins in the body are genetic defects and unresolved psycological issues.

Chronic infections are always secondary.

I've listened to the entire interview and theres alot of info to share but I'll post here what is specific to Lyme and infections. I will post the rest later.

Klinghardt's Axiom.....a triad of detoxification.

Axiom = A truth which cannot be proven or disproven. There is no way to measure the phenomenom with any available measurements.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For each unresolved trauma there is an equal amount of toxins stored in the body...period. For each toxin stored...there is an equal amount of pathogenic microbes that the body cannot eliminate.

All together there is a balance of unresolved issue, toxic load and microbial load. It means when you have a chronically ill patient you look at 3 things....infections, toxins and psychological material.

He identifies these with muscle testing (ART) and with labwork. Muscle testing is a helpful tool to get to a deeper level of truth.

When testing for microbial load he looks for Lyme, Clamydia, Herpes Viruses and mycoplasma...to start with. He also does the screening tests for heavy metals and environmental toxins. The higher the numbers the more he is aware that there is phsycological material he needs to look for.

When you start treating microbes and/or metals keep in mind that the moment you reduce metals to a certain point...no more metals will come out unless you tend to the microbial burden. Bring down the microbial burden....attend to phsychological burdens...bring that down with it...then suddenly metal detox progresses again.

You cannot empty one of the 3 glasses and leave the other two untouched....it will not work.

All practitioners around him...when they gut stuck with a patient and are not progressing with biochemistry treatments....he cracks it open with finding infections or phsycotherapy....and they can then successfully continue detox.

For chronic Lyme infections....Its absolutely important to include heavy metal detox in the treatment program to make progress.

If you have someone with mercury toxicity and you overlook that they also have Lyme Disease...you will never completely be able to detox them. You have to also address the Lyme.

If you are doing challenge tests for metals and nothing is coming out and you're assuming that nothing is in there....assume that you are wrong.

You need to treat the microbes and you need to balance biochemistry...and then repeat the challenge tests.

If the Western Blot is positive...then Lyme is there. If the Western Blot is negative...there is still a 60% chance that you may have Lyme.

Treat Lyme for 6 weeks before testing and the accuracy in the results goes way way up.

White blood cells which produce antibodies are blocked by the Lyme so sometimes cannot make antibodies that you are trying to detect in testing. Treat first and then try to make the diagnosis.

He uses antimicrobial herbs which work just as well as antibiotics. Samento Cats Claw and a whole slew of other herbal treatments found to be effective against spirochetes.

6 weeks of an herbal cocktail...then do the Western Blots and there is an 85% detection rate.

For him the Lyme Disease wave is coming to an end as they have come to realize that many many people have Lyme and no symptoms.

People with Lyme who are symptomatic have significant viral infections as well. It seems to be much more fruitful to address underlying viruses. All of his symptomatic Lyme patients are positive for Borna viruses. Borna viruses are hugely known about in Europe....but not in the US.

The reason people dont respond well to antibiotic treatment is that its only addressing the bacteria and not the virus. And for the virus...you can never get well w/out treating the heavy metals. Its a complicated circle.

Lyme eats magnesium. Babesia eats iron.

80% of Lyme patients have undiagnosed Babesia.

Lyme and low iron = Babesia.

His treatment for Babs is 1500 mg's of Artemisia a day for 3-4 days...pause for two week pulses. Highly effective treatment for Babs.

When killing bugs in large amounts always cover for heavy metals released from cell wall. Herx effects from Lyme treatment are heavy metal releases.

Unfortunately he says he cant get his voice heard on this issue of "die-off".

For Herx reactions he says you need DMPS shot or high amounts of amino acids...whey protein with N.A.C. or with glutathione....to bind heavy metals. He uses chlorella with cilantro.

So thats basically all the notes about Lyme and infections. The majority has to do with heavy metal detox. He also talks about copper toxicity....I will post all that info for Sherry. :)

So from everything I've read and have learned from Dr. Amy, other patients and from this interview it seems like what they see is that heavy metals are always behind the infections. You cant treat one thing effectively without addressing the others.

You cant get rid of metals if you're not treating Lyme and you cant get rid of metals if there is a "block" due to genetic defects or unresolved emotional issues. You cant treat Lyme without removing the metals. Everything stay trapped in the body. You cannot treat one at a time....it doesnt work that way. Thats basically what he's saying.

He's saying the challenge tests dont tell the whole story and there is no test currently available to determine the body burden of heavy metals.

He says he sees people who have went through chelation for years....they come to him still sick and saying that they are done treating metals.....they have chelated and nothing else is coming out. They dont want to waste time looking at heavy metals because they believe they've chelated effectively. They want to get on to looking for other things that might be going on.

He always finds metals still being an unresolved issue. The metals are still trapped in the body.....just not coming out with biochemical treatments. He looks for phsycological issues and sometimes treats infections that werent identified...then goes back to heavy metal detox and the metals come out.

Theres still a ton of info about the metals...I'll post that stuff tomorrow.

My guess is that if you saw Dr. K. he would say that you are still heavy metal toxic long after removing the amalgams....because you were not able to detox the metals due to chronic Lyme and other infections. He says you cant get rid of the metals if you have an untreated infection. I think he would find the metals in ART....and I think he would tell you that the Herxes are the metals being released into your system when treating the Lyme.

Thats pretty much what he believes....he does not believe herxes are caused by anything other than heavy metals being released into the body when the bugs are killed. He does not believe that people have these infections on their own (without metals and other contributing factors) and he doesnt believe that you can take care of one without also taking care of the others at the same time.

He would likely say that the Lyme infection is not a big problem all on its own in the absence of heavy metals or other issues (thats not what he sees in any Lyme patient)....he would say that the other issues are not absent....they are just not easy to identify in the testing which is currently available. He would look for them with ART.

He says that ART is the only test he knows of that can find metals in the body/brain....even when they are not coming out on any detox program. They need to be located and treated until they do come out. Only then can the infections be treated effectively.

This is all about Klinghardts Axiom theory...a balance of unresolved issue, toxic load and microbial load. All needing to be addressed to successfully detox the body of heavy metals and to successfully treat infections.

It has yet to be proven or disproven....I think there are currently studies under way to try to determine these things...including the theory of candida being a "protective" infection in the presence of heavy metals.

Ok...time for bed...more scientificness tomorrow.

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I had a question about what he said about taking vitamin c, seleium, magnesium, zinc and copper? You need to take these for proper detox and these supplement will mobilize the mercury? Is this something we all need to take to going through detox.

I need to boost my immune system up before I get more almagams taken out. I will go to my old naturopath egad and asked her about it. I hope it's not too late for my immune system yet.

He also talked about EFT therapy. I have a book that talks and teaches you about EFT. might bring out a tragedy in my life hopefully that is locking in these toxins. I have always gotten weird viruses and sicknesses so it has to be something like he said.

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Lyme eats magnesium. Babesia eats iron.

80% of Lyme patients have undiagnosed Babesia.

Lyme and low iron = Babesia.

This is me!!! I've had to supplement iron for years and years. My gyn attributes it to menstruation, like there can be no other cause for it. <_< That has never made sense to me.

His treatment for Babs is 1500 mg's of Artemisia a day for 3-4 days...pause for two week pulses. Highly effective treatment for Babs.

There is debate on whether to pulse babs treatment. I personally don't think artemisia is enough on it's own. But this is ALL theory right now ... there is no right or wrong answer or an established treatment protocol.

When killing bugs in large amounts always cover for heavy metals released from cell wall. Herx effects from Lyme treatment are heavy metal releases.

Unfortunately he says he cant get his voice heard on this issue of "die-off".

For Herx reactions he says you need DMPS shot or high amounts of amino acids...whey protein with N.A.C. or with glutathione....to bind heavy metals. He uses chlorella with cilantro.

Hmm, interesting theory. I bought some more whey without the stevia, stupid stevia. I'll take more of it when I have my next herx and see what happens. I took some yesterday and today. This time no belly ache, so it was the stevia. I already take NAC. I take the Questran for mopping up toxins.

My guess is that if you saw Dr. K. he would say that you are still heavy metal toxic long after removing the amalgams....because you were not able to detox the metals due to chronic Lyme and other infections. He says you cant get rid of the metals if you have an untreated infection. I think he would find the metals in ART....and I think he would tell you that the Herxes are the metals being released into your system when treating the Lyme.

Thats pretty much what he believes....he does not believe herxes are caused by anything other than heavy metals being released into the body when the bugs are killed. He does not believe that people have these infections on their own (without metals and other contributing factors) and he doesnt believe that you can take care of one without also taking care of the others at the same time.

This makes sense. I'm chelating now. This might work for you, too, Rachel as it's a gentle way to get rid of metals -- Detoxamin. It's the same stuff that they give you in IV's, but it's given over four days, then rest for three, so you don't have as much of the chemical put into your system all at once.

My LLMD is using it because lead showed higher than mercury, so maybe it would be an effective way for you to start, then switch to the stronger methods when you can take them.

The really interesting thing to me is that I've always been healthy, with a few Lyme symptoms (not many -- some light fatigue, seasonal allergies, stiff neck), UNTIL I would get under heavy emotional stress. Not "normal" stress, but extreme stress. It was in these times of stress that the symptoms would come ... then they'd go away with the stress. One of these times it was a broken heart, so that CAN play a role (I'm thinking of you, Rachel :)).

He has an interesting theory. I agree with him that it's a bunch of things all coming together and that any one of the causes of illness being fixed on its own won't be enough.

BTW, when I was losing so much weight a couple years ago, I visited my mother and sisters. :huh: I had only lost a couple pounds when I went down there, then lost a bunch more when I got back. A few months later, I wrote the letter and stopped losing.

I never thought of the connection before.

So, yeah, I can see how it's all connected and how some with Lyme never show symptoms. Yet, I don't think that we are going to see Lyme fall into the background like he is suggesting, though I do think you have to take care of these other issues.

He would look for them with ART.

If there were someone here, I'd definately check this out. Adam and I have already talked about this ... especially with Chloe. Will you please ask if there's someone in Ohio, KY, IN, TN ... or where the closest person is? It's easy for me to travel from here to Florida (Dad is there) -- So OH, KY, TN, GA, FL are all easy.

I really, really feel like the discovery of my bacterial problem in my intestines will play a HUGE part in my healing. I feel like that is the missing link for me. I just can't believe I have NO Bifidobacteria and I've been supplementing for YEARS! :o

Thanks for the scientificness, Rachel.

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Dear Rachel,

That Klinghardt interview is really amazing! Hopefully, I will get the chance to listen to it myself one day. Right now, I have to focus on school again. This is my last shot with Finance. :( I wonder what was going on with your player. That was weird.

I had something strange occur that was similar to that. The other day, my necklace came off. It never falls off. The odd part is that it had not come undone or broken! WTH? :blink: There was no good explanation for it.

Dear Donna,

I hope I do get through this, but I often feel hopeless. Circumstances are just so bad. I am tired of feeling cursed.

Bills come from nowhere! Finally when I thought I was going to get tested for the WBs, a bill for $300 from something I had done over a year ago came! I am extremely depressed.

I am afraid I will die before I will find out what is causing all of the misery. Why do jerks get what they want? These people are supposed to have bad karma. How come they get things handed to them? Those are the ones with all of the money and good fortune.

The parade sounded like a lot of fun. The floats sound really neat! People dressed up as ants would be interesting!

At least they are not pesky like the real ones! They are all over the place! The little ants tend to be easier to get rid of. I read somewhere about how bay leaves repel them.

It actually worked on the small ones. My grandmother tried it. They had them really bad in their apartment. She said she would just sweet them up in the morning. That was much better than them crawling all over the place! :)

We always get the big ants. They are harder to get rid of. Dad has to spray around the perimeter of the house with chlordane. It is the only thing that works. Those things get in everywhere, even through the keyhole!

Dear Carla,

I know someone who practices real voodoo! She is a friend of mine from school. It is not anything like you would think. She disagrees with the black magick aspect of it. The high priests and priestesses are allowed to practice it, but my friend will not do it. The consequences are too great.

Their rituals require more elaborate things in some ways. Wicca does not have too many hard and fast rules. Rituals often are adjusted to the preferences of the practitioner, and just have some basic guidelines that are required. Healing is part of the work that can be done. I have used spells in the past for my test results to show something.

I cannot comment on the striped scat. However, it does appear to be fat related. It appears to be coming out in the stool. Fat may not be digesting well right now due to the Cipro. The herx is probably causing you a lot of misery.

I could not take Cipro. I got very ill from it. There are very few antibiotics I tolerate. I always have been sensitive to them. This has been a life-long thing.

Bacterial dysbiosis is caused by a lot of things. We take in bacteria easily from food. We even inhale it at times. This makes it very easy to contract h. pylori, and so many others. From what I can tell, the Citrobactor is probably a spirochete and related to it.

I too, found it very fascinating about the Babs connection and iron deficiency. I think I have it and Lyme. The problem is affording the two WBs. Everything seems to get in the way. No matter how hard I work, I still get screwed out of whatever I work for. I am so tired of it.

Dear Claire,

The voodoo doctors are something many people are wary of. You cannot blame them. Like with Carla's doctor, who was wrong about her situation, they are not always right. Some methods of diagnostics seem quirky, but if they are effective, I do not see what the trouble is. I have a holistic physician, but so far it has been an alright experience.

I hope your dentist search becomes more fruitful soon! So far, it seems the ones you have visited do not have the exact protocol you desire. I would be concerned as well. Being fully prepared is extremely important. Some of that equipment is necessary for proper removal of amalgams containing mercury.

Dear tom,

I will try to get that astrology picture you want. I need to go back and see if I can access it. Sometimes, computers are just odd. They let you do something one day, then they won't the next! My computer seems to have moods. I will e-mail the link as soon as I am able!

The food diary is going to be started as soon as I do the rotation diet. I do not have anything but loose paper at the moment. I feel it is necessary to keep a notebook, because it will be in one place that way. It can be incredibly frustrating trying to find what food family some things are in. They have biological classifications, which are more complex with meats and some other items.

Contrarian Spice is wise to skip town! I am not sure if Dollface has a contract on him. All I know is, she might have spoken to Bella. She gives the orders. We should know soon. :lol:

Aretha is definitely the Queen! You cannot beat her pipes! She has it going on! It is difficult to name just one great hit of hers. Many people are amazed by her.

Yes, I am a Glenn Miller woman! Tell Contrarian Spice to shut his pie hole! Swing Dancing is an art! "It is not a manly thing!" (There he goes again!) Uh-oh. Here comes Dollface......

Dear Lisa,

Those supplements certainly messed you up more! I assume you are off of them already. Your body could be reacting to a lot of things. It is difficult to narrow it down to just a few things. Did you take them at once? You need to only add them one at a time.

You will not be able to tell what is irritating your system if you have so much to soon. Have you called your doctor and told her what is going on? I got down to 84lbs. at my sickest. It was horrifying. I still get upset thinking about it.

Trust me, you do not need a psychiatrist. All they do is sit on their butt, and collect $200 an hour. Anyone can do that. I saw one, and he did not even know how to convert milliliters to milligrams! That is basic metrics!

Basically, the appointments were a waste of a lot of things. Time, energy and money were all wasted. The guy only saw me for ten or fifteen minutes. We went all the way across town for him to stare at me and sit in a chair, then leave. These people go to school for eight years for that?

Dear Andrea,

I am glad Seth's bump is better. It is good it was not as bad as expected. I am glad T is doing so well taking her supplements. They are not easy to swallow. Pills are just not fun to take! How long before improvement is expected?

Dear Rinne,

Your experience with Lyme sounds like the typical kind. Everyone seems to have difficulty convincing doctors to test them, or interpret the tests by other standards than those of the CDC. How unfortunate is it that we must suffer for the sake if absurdity? I am tired of waiting on people's ethics to catch-up with their egos! I do not want to die!

Sincerely,

Jin

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Well, I'm home and the parade was wonderful . . .

Wow what a great bunch of floats for a neighborhood to put together!!

That's not some plain ole regular neighborhood!!

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He said that band 30 or 31 having 3 pluses showed I had it for a very long time. That one is one of the last to show up.

:o Okay then. :P I had the same as you +++ on band 31 for the IgG! Very long time...wonder what very long means. :lol: I honestly can't pin down when I got it. I went to Indiana in the 70s...Iowa a few times as a kid, lots of parks and woodlands here in California as a child, then in the 90s did that hiking trip in Vermont. I just don't know. :P

I've been thinking alot today about the things I listened to in Dr. K's interview. Trying to put puzzle pieces together and trying to determine if there are any emotional issues to be dealt with.

I'm pretty sure I've got lots of them.

I *think* I dealt pretty well with my dad's death (as well as can be expected I guess), but that was a really hard time...I don't think I dealt with the other stuff that came with it.

That year was a horrible year, started in 1995 with the death of my grandmother, then a month later the death of one of my favorite aunts, then a month later another aunt...we had a few months rest from the deaths, but then two of my very good friends "left" me (one moved out of state, and one went to work for a client of ours and became the client from hades) and we almost lost my cousin in childbirth. That was a tough time...then in 1996 my father was killed in a car crash along with his brother and my other uncle's wife (this uncle survived the crash--NOW that was emotional...he lost his last two surviving siblings and his wife all in one shot). Now, it took me a really long time to deal with this stuff, but I put a lot of the other emotional stuff from around that time on the back burner.

For instance, there were things involving my dad's estate. He left the house to us kids, but we can't touch it...can't even go near it...

Coincidentally, I did some traveling during this time...spent 3 weeks in Guatemala (is there Lyme in Guatemala, lol) and did the week long hiking trip to vermont--those were both in 1995). After this is when I started getting sick more and more. More cases of bronchitis, more cases of sinus issues, more allergy symptoms, neck started getting stiff, muscle aches and joint aches.

But I didn't get really sick until after my hysterectomy in 2001...about a year later is when I got so sick I couldn't get off my couch for a week. High fevers, chills, body aches, could barely talk, etc.

So, I don't know how much any of that has to do with the lyme, but it can't help. :P

Then there's the job. I think I have a lot of repressed anger from some of the stuff that went on (is still going on) here too. :ph34r:

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I hope I do get through this, but I often feel hopeless. Circumstances are just so bad. I am tired of feeling cursed.

Bills come from nowhere! Finally when I thought I was going to get tested for the WBs, a bill for $300 from something I had done over a year ago came! I am extremely depressed.

I am afraid I will die before I will find out what is causing all of the misery. Why do jerks get what they want? These people are supposed to have bad karma. How come they get things handed to them? Those are the ones with all of the money and good fortune.

The parade sounded like a lot of fun. The floats sound really neat! People dressed up as ants would be interesting!

At least they are not pesky like the real ones! They are all over the place! The little ants tend to be easier to get rid of. I read somewhere about how bay leaves repel them.

Jin - yeah, I get those bills out of nowhere too, either that or some unexpected expense comes up like cracked struts, or leaky exhaust system. Stupid phantom bills! :angry:

Hum, ants...they don't seem to stick around long at my place. ;)

Wow what a great bunch of floats for a neighborhood to put together!!

That's not some plain ole regular neighborhood!!

They usually have a band too, but this year didn't. They will next year again I think though. Most of these floats are pretty nicely done. Impressive for a bunch of families to do on their own really.

i'm going to send an email out today...xoxo

Oh good...looking forward to it!

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Dear Kat,

My mother has high cholesterol and triglycerides. She practically lives at restaurants, too. She will never learn! I know you do not have to never eat out, but my parents eat out at least five days a week! Plus, neither will admit they could have Celiac. They will not admit I have it, despite my doctor saying so!

Hi Jin,

It would be nice if people would just take people at their word, but your parents probably do believe it on some level, but just don't want to submit to it. My sister gives me crap about not going out to eat at restaurants (She'll get "her's" - her son is ADHD and bites his nails furiously like I did before I went gluten-free). I've given up on trying to make people in my family understand why I make the food and social choices I do - not that gluten is a choice anymore. Thankfully, I don't live with any of them - sorry you have to tolerate that.

My folks have high cholesterol too, but my insane levels of LDL are mostly a result of whatever's happening in relation to the kidney syndrome.

Strangely, my Triglycerides and Glucose are really good - I know that sounds weird. It's another mystery to solve - OH - by the way, thanks - something you said sparked me to look into why my Triglycerides might be okay & I've taken a deep breath of relief. I read that if LDL's are bad and Triglycerides are good, heart attack risk factor is reduced significantly - need to look into this a little further.

Oh, and I've been wondering:

DONNA - is your KICK PUNCH CRUNCH Cathe Freidrich? She's my fitness hero right now.

A million, zillion things I could comment on or ask questions about, but can't think of any right now.

Oh, Yeah

LISA, I know you've heard it before, but here it is again: One day at a time. One thing at a time - it's really the only way to get through something like this. Too much stuff swirling around in your head - take a little time to breathe - think of something nice, not connected to all of this stuff once in a while. You'll get through this. I know you're struggling on so many levels. You'll get through this.

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DONNA - is your KICK PUNCH CRUNCH Cathe Freidrich? She's my fitness hero right now.

YES! I have most of her stuff...didn't buy the last series she did (last year I think) and haven't ordered the one that's on sale now. Love her stuff. Used to be able to do one of her workouts first thing out of bed in the morning...without eating or anything. Now, I have a hard time THINKING about doing one. :lol::P KPC is one of my all time favorites of hers.

One day at a time. One thing at a time - it's really the only way to get through something like this. Too much stuff swirling around in your head - take a little time to breathe - think of something nice, not connected to all of this stuff once in a while. You'll get through this. I know you're struggling on so many levels. You'll get through this.

Good advice!!!

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Excuse me everyone, but...

HI LISA :)

I wanted you to know that I'm praying for your wellness and that I'm not coming out of the blue with this. I have been where you are in a lot of ways. I don't want to go into a bunch of details, but quickly, I've been through an excruciating 7 month treatment - I'm potentially looking at chemotherapy treatment - which I refuse every time I see my doctor. I've been through years and years of therapy because I wan't sure how to cope with things. Things are better as a result of learning to take things one day at a time - one thing at a time. You can do that.

I'm pulling good energy from the universe and directing it your way.

Catch !

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Dear Donna,

Stupid phantom bills! :angry: My best friend said the same thing happened to her. She had to go to the ER last year, and ended up getting the bill the other month! :huh: They must have a crazy system! Anything to screw a taxpayer you know!

Gee, I cannot imagine how come the ants do not stay at your place long. :lol: They are probably thinking, "I wonder if she will ever move?" You have to put them in their place! Otherwise, they will take over! The next thing you know, the remote is gone, then "Antz" the movie is on! :lol: Then, they start carrying out the recliner! :blink:

Dear Kat,

If it is one thing I have learned in all of this, is that family sucks! You cannot depend on them, they do not understand, nor do they try to! :angry: They expect you to let them whine and be sympathetic, when they refuse to do anything to fix the situation. I am tired of it all. These people are poisonous to my system. Sometimes, I feel like they are why my life is going so poorly.

It is like a generational curse or something. I really cannot take anymore of this. I should not have to pay for others' misdeeds! Since when does innocence getting punished become equated with justice? Whatever happened to good karma?

I am glad you are finding out more about cholesterol. That was interesting that you found. I did not know that your triglycerides being low despite high LDL could reduce your risk of heart disease. Your liver probably is not functioning properly, either. That can cause high cholesterol levels, and so can a slow thyroid.

You mentioned possibly needing chemotherapy. What for? Do you have Cancer or Lupus? I can see why you would not want to do it if you do not need to. It is a difficult process for your body.

Dear Carla,

Those phones probably are not as easy to use as they look. You always need to play with them a bit. Getting used to them is not easy. I have very long finger nails. Those probably would slow you down a lot!

Dear Laura,

It is nice to see you! How is your new baby (Camry)? My best friend's brother is ecstatic. His grandmother gave him her Lexus! There is a moon roof and everything! It purs like a kitten!

Sincerely,

Jin

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The supplement I took has VC(asorbic acid) taurine, pancrelipase, beet concentrate(whole) superoxide dismutase from vegie culture and catalase from veggie culture. With SOD and catalase to preserve associated enzyme factors. Any mold here?

Hi Lisa!

I've been meaning to chime in on these questions.

I think a crucial bit of info is whether we're talking pills or powders or liquids or what.

Every powder I've ever seen or taken is FAR too dry to support mold.

Now whether there could be something in a powder's manufacturing process which presents a mold residue possible risk, I have no idea who could know.

Any chemists in da hizzouse???! :lol:

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Hi Lisa!

I've been meaning to chime in on these questions.

I think a crucial bit of info is whether we're talking pills or powders or liquids or what.

Every powder I've ever seen or taken is FAR too dry to support mold.

Now whether there could be something in a powder's manufacturing process which presents a mold residue possible risk, I have no idea who could know.

Any chemists in da hizzouse???! :lol:

Dear tom,

From what Rachel said, mold can be present for a lot of reasons. Sometimes they are naturally occurring. Even powders have been known to have mold. She warned me about FOS being in antibiotics. It is derived from the fungus Aspergillus.

Alison's husband is a chemist. I do not know if he would know about this or not. He does know about metal toxicity. Whether or not they know about fungi is another story. Maybe Alison will pop on and respond later. I hope she does, we have not seen much of her lately!

Sincerely,

Jin

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I had a question about what he said about taking vitamin c, seleium, magnesium, zinc and copper? You need to take these for proper detox and these supplement will mobilize the mercury? Is this something we all need to take to going through detox.

I have all the notes on this and I'm gonna write it up today but yeah...this is critical. This is what I was talking to you about a few weeks ago. Remember I said you need to build up high amounts of minerals in your system?

This is what Dr. Amy has me doing now. The comprehensive minerals (Cardiovascular Research) I had given you the link....they're only like $8.50. I got mine directly from her.

A few weeks before I saw Dr. Amy I had been trying a chelator (NDF) all by itself....no charcoal, minerals or kidney support. I ended up feeling worse and got really depressed...I also took alot more drops than what was recommended by my Dr. :ph34r:

Carla....(or anyone else chelating)....I dont know if you noticed this on the stuff that I posted from Dr. Amy's presentation but they always say that kidney support is critical for anyone doing any type of heavy metal detox. Amy listed all of the products that they use for kidney support during detox. The one she has me on is Burbur Detox.....which is also good for liver support.

Anyways....when I saw Dr. Amy for the first time she told me to not take anymore NDF...that it was working....but that it had backed up in my kidneys and I had no support and no mineral base going into it.

So yeah...this is why I'm taking the minerals, whey protein and other things to make my body more capable of handling any kind of heavy metal detox.

It sounds like you listened to the interview?? I'm glad you listened....you could also print out all my notes from the interview to refer back to. He talks about the whey protein and he talks about the minerals....very important things going into metal detox.

I also took all the notes on the phsycological stuff.

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In a simple way it seems to me that there is a relationship between our desire for life and our immune system's ability to maintain our lives.

Oooooh boy do I agree. I see it as a part of that mind/body connection so often downplayed, heck let's say ignored, by so much of Western Medicine.

Hehe Rinne, chuckling now at not having to think about dusting off the ole pistols for awhile. :lol:

(ok ya I do enjoy a good debate now & then, who am *I* kiddin'?) :P

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Dear Rachel,

I am amazed at Dr. Klinghardt's knowledge! It really is a revelation! Mercury really cause a ton of trouble. There is no one cause for anything. Multiple issues do pop up, but as you said, usually a mixture of contributors irritate viruses, bacteria, yeast, and parasites.

All of these factors work together to make a person ill. Getting to the root cause is essential, and most doctors neglect that. I think that psychological issues certainly add to things in so many ways. Pathways being blocked will completely obliterate any chances of becoming well for a patient. You need to release those things in order to be well.

Dear tom,

I hate it when the mind-body-spirit connection is downplayed as well! Western medicine is quite pathetic in keeping all of their faith in pills. There is psychic healing that needs done. It is really stupid seeing all of these people make up some cock-and-bull excuse for what the spirit can do. Science can explain certain things well, but it often ignores some of the more obvious things.

Psychokinetic power is actually the spirit energy. Witches have known about this forever. Not many can actually do this, though. Some people are not able to do it at will, others can. When I try I cannot do it, but when I am upset, there are times things fly off the shelf. It is so weird.

Sincerely,

Jin

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////////////Lymification Failure!////////////

<insert loud annoying buzzer here>

///////does////not///////compute//////////

(Pls skip to next post)

(btw, I hear that buzzer as a low C!! Wish I could say what number C for piano, but it's lowest C on std guitar - 3rd fret on A string) <glad I didn't have to use phrase "plucked G-string" lol>

Axiom = A truth which cannot be proven or disproven. There is no way to measure the phenomenom with any available measurements.

First off, I swear it's not ME looking to pick a fight!!

Contrarian Spice just couldn't let this one point slide, troublemaker that he is. :)

The word Axiom is supposed to carry far more weight than implied in that definition.

Merriam-Webster's site & handheld dictionary agree w/ C.Spice.

*******************************

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/axiom

1 : a maxim widely accepted on its intrinsic merit

2 : a statement accepted as true as the basis for argument or inference

3 : an established rule or principle or a self-evident truth

My own dictionary includes:

Axiom -

An established principle, scientific law, etc.

&

A statement universally accepted as true.

********************************

The notion that 'Axiom' should connotate

"A truth which cannot be proven or disproven"

totally, wildly, & undeniably drastically conflicts w/ the word's actual meaning.

"ESTABLISHED" rules, principles and scientific laws *have* been proven, and survived myriads of attempts to disprove them.

And the method of proof is thru measurement of measureable phenomena.

"Intrinsic merit" also means far more than the offending definition.

And the online def#2, inherently states that the statement may not BE true, but is a "for the purpose of argument" statement accepted (temporarily) as true.

So Rachel, I hope u haven't taken my disputing this as anything but the good-natured debate it's intended to be, but I am quite curious as to the source of that definition of Axiom.

:)

(Actually thx Rach for prompting me on this. Every damn day I'm waking up wondering if the brain will still be whirring & and am grateful beyond belief each time proof arrives that I get at least another day) :'-|

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This is me!!! I've had to supplement iron for years and years. My gyn attributes it to menstruation, like there can be no other cause for it. <_< That has never made sense to me.

Yeah....this question came from a caller. The last part of the interview was open to questions from callers. She said she had Lyme and was low in iron and asked if it was important to supplement it or not?

He basically told her she had undiagnosed Babesia and this is why she had low iron.

There is debate on whether to pulse babs treatment. I personally don't think artemisia is enough on it's own. But this is ALL theory right now ... there is no right or wrong answer or an established treatment protocol.

I'm sure Dr. K. has other treatments for Babs he uses because he *only* treats with what shows to work in ART for each individual. If this is what he most commonly uses...its because it shows up as the most effective treatment in ART.

I consider ART to be such a powerful tool....since Dr. K. developed ART I dont think anyone else can perform this test better than he himself can. I'm assuming that when he pulses the artemisia the way he described....Babs is no longer showing up in the body with treatment.

This is the advantage of testing the autonomic nervous system with ART....you can *see* what works and what doesnt. Of course not every person will respond to the same exact treatment but some things do have a higher success rate than others.

Also...Dr. K. is able to identify all the surounding issues and treat them as well...treating the metals goes a long way when trying to rid the body of infections. Its much easier to get rid of the infections when the metals are gone completely.....otherwise the bugs just come right back and the treatment is unsucessful.

Dr. Cowden (who developed LED) says the same thing....he doesnt go after the bugs with LED treatment...he goes after the toxins. He says if he goes after the bugs they just come right back...treating the bugs w/out removing the toxins can cause a serious situation which allows for the bugs to wreak havoc.

Hmm, interesting theory. I bought some more whey without the stevia, stupid stevia. I'll take more of it when I have my next herx and see what happens. I took some yesterday and today. This time no belly ache, so it was the stevia. I already take NAC. I take the Questran for mopping up toxins.

Yeah....this is why he feels his theory is correct....because when he uses DMPS shots on people who are in the middle of herxing the die-off reaction stops. He says DMPS doesnt treat toxins from dying yeast or bugs....it only treats metals. It picks up all the metals that would be floating around in that persons system.

This makes sense. I'm chelating now. This might work for you, too, Rachel as it's a gentle way to get rid of metals -- Detoxamin. It's the same stuff that they give you in IV's, but it's given over four days, then rest for three, so you don't have as much of the chemical put into your system all at once.

My LLMD is using it because lead showed higher than mercury, so maybe it would be an effective way for you to start, then switch to the stronger methods when you can take them.

I'm not at the stage where I'm ready to chelate yet. If my body cant eliminate the metals I'll get all of the symptoms of redistribution....which is what we're trying to avoid. I also cant take any synthetics....everything I'm taking is natural...this is one of the reasons my Dr. wont give me the DMPS challenge. Because its synthetic and I have chemical sensitivities...the chances that I'll react to the pill are high.

Right now its not a matter of finding a chelator that is gentle....its more about getting my body ready for it...and making sure that my pathways are open and I'm able to excrete what is mobilized. They work very slowly and carefully with the metals.

The LED sulfa treatment might be the *key* to allow for my body to be able to detox more efficiently.....still trying to determine that. If my body is holding onto the sulfa residuals...there is no chelator in the world thats gonna work to remove the metals efficiently. It could take years to detox if sulfa residuals are preventing it.

My Dr. (Dr. S.) would not be able to successfully detox me of metals on his own....he acknowledges that....he cant look into my body and see what is going on or forsee any problems that might occur. Thats why he he considers the ART and energetic testing to be very valuable for treating patients like me who are very sensitive. He doesnt have to guess about what to give me or when to start the treatments....the other testing can guide us through everything.

The really interesting thing to me is that I've always been healthy, with a few Lyme symptoms (not many -- some light fatigue, seasonal allergies, stiff neck), UNTIL I would get under heavy emotional stress. Not "normal" stress, but extreme stress. It was in these times of stress that the symptoms would come ... then they'd go away with the stress. One of these times it was a broken heart, so that CAN play a role (I'm thinking of you, Rachel :)).

This would be in line with what Dr. K. says about emotional issues trapping toxins in the body.... for each emotional issue there is an equal load of toxins and for each load of toxins there is an equal load of microbes. They all become trapped in the body...I would assume that eventually the load can become too great.

So, yeah, I can see how it's all connected and how some with Lyme never show symptoms. Yet, I don't think that we are going to see Lyme fall into the background like he is suggesting, though I do think you have to take care of these other issues.

I dont think Lyme is going to fall to the background....he wasnt suggesting that at all.....he was saying that for HIM (and those who work closely with him) the Lyme wave is coming to an end.....that they have come to realize that the Lyme is there *only* because of the other factors (viruses and metals) and that without those other factors people dont get sick from Lyme.

If there were someone here, I'd definately check this out. Adam and I have already talked about this ... especially with Chloe. Will you please ask if there's someone in Ohio, KY, IN, TN ... or where the closest person is? It's easy for me to travel from here to Florida (Dad is there) -- So OH, KY, TN, GA, FL are all easy.

I know there are ART practitioners everywhere but I'm only hearing about the ones on the West Coast....mainly because the Dr.'s teaching things like ART and LED are here on the west coast (Dr. K and Dr. Cowden).

I know I've seen lots of posts about people doing ART on LymeNET....I know they are not all here on this side of the country. My advice would be to post over there asking for reputable ART practitioners in those states. I know there must be people over there doing ART. If you cant find anything out let me know and I'll try to ask some people if they know of anyone on the east coast. :)

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Finally when I thought I was going to get tested for the WBs, a bill for $300 from something I had done over a year ago came! I am extremely depressed.

That does it! C.Spice & tom say "last straw"!

I'm buying a lottery ticket today & WILL win at least 6 figures (big prize not necessary) so no Rachelville resident will worry about $ for tests, treatments etc until everyone is well dammit!!!!!! :angry:

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So Rachel, I hope u haven't taken my disputing this as anything but the good-natured debate it's intended to be, but I am quite curious as to the source of that definition of Axiom.

:)

(Actually thx Rach for prompting me on this. Every damn day I'm waking up wondering if the brain will still be whirring & and am grateful beyond belief each time proof arrives that I get at least another day) :'-|

Honestly, I'm not here to debate or to nit-pick about the "correct" definitions of words or phrases. I'm hoping that people get alot more out of my posts than this. :huh:

It took me a good amount of time to take the notes and to post them here for others to read. I could care less about how the dictionary defines "Axiom"...its just a word to me.

However, as I typed that sentence....I had absolutely no doubts that you would post questioning its origin. The true definition of Axiom is irrelevelent to me...what IS relevant to me is the information that follows that sentence.

You can put your pistol down because I'm not here to go back and forth about the meaning of one word.....its pointless to me.

You asked for the source....well the source was Dr. Klinghardt...in the interview I had posted about.

I said I was taking notes from the interview and that is what I did. None of the callers that asked questions during the interview actually called to ask him about how, why or who came up with the word "Axiom" for his theory. Perhaps you can contact him and ask him yourself?? :)

As far as I know in Germany this Klinghardt theory has come to be known as the "Klinghardt Axiom".

The Klinghardt Axiom and the Triad of Detoxification:

By experience I found the following to be true: each unresolved psycho-emotional conflict or each unresolved past trauma causes the body to lose the ability to successfully recognize and excrete toxic substances.

For each unresolved psychological issue there is an equal amount of toxins stored in the body.

For each equivalent of stored toxins there is an equal amount of pathogenic microorganisms in the body (Milieu theory of Bechamp)

The Detoxification Axiom:

For each unresolved psycho-emotional conflict or trauma there is an equivalent of stored toxins and an equivalent of pathogenic microorganisms. To successfully detoxify the body the three issues have to be addressed simultaneously.

The triad of detoxification:

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Psychological issues:

There is a strange but largely overlooked association of metal toxicity and psychological issues.

I found that often when the client has a breakthrough in psychotherapy her/his symptoms become temporarily worse. This is often falsely believed to be a healing crisis (immune system acivation).

In this situation the client

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Hi everyone

How is everyone today? :)

Well I took no supplements today just a small dose of prob's. I feel better today than yesterday. Taking it day by day. I decided that I need to learn how to make myself better.

These things that these doctors sell me are not working and a waste of my fathers money. Don't they understand that my system doesn't work like theres. I want to see Dr. S. this month and goss darnit I will no matter what it takes.

I might go to my local churches and ask for some aid or charity. I know pathetic but I am desperate and I hate asking my family for money all the time.

Rachel you are right about ART and for me to hold off on it. With these almagams still in My system could change anyday and be more wacky and not tolerate things from one thing to the next.

Do you feel I should not use charcoal untill I get some vitamins and minerals to help?

I was also wondering if liquid vitamins and minerals were better?

I made an appointment with my old naturopath on Tuesday. I feel if I need to do this by myself I should at least have someone else helping me through this with me. She said she never has had someone as toxic as me so I know from this last naturopath and my stupid mistakes that I can't rush into things and just take it slow.

My new naturopath I feel is to headstrong and thinks she's right about everything. I told her I need vitamins and minerals. She said my intestines wont soak them up. How is that possible?

That means I would never get better.

Also if that were the case I would be dead by now because the food I eat wouldn't be able to soak any vitamin and minerals either and I would be anemic or something. <_<

Well I am sleepy And will take a nap.

I will see you peoples later.

lisa

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