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If you react to gluten then you are obviously intolerant of it so dropping it was the best thing to do. But if you did not get well on the gluten-free diet then it may be that your gut is still not healing for some reason. Sometimes it is easier to pare your diet right back to basics and avoid anything processed or commercially made and slowly introduce other foods. Many find that once the gut has finally started to heal properly they can often re-introduce the 'antagonists' on an occasional basis without any problem. If you are Celiac, then you obviously can never do that with gluten.

I can see you are already on a very limited diet, but somehow I suspect that the fact you are still reacting to other foods might just indicate that something is interfering with the healing process. It could be Lyme, but it might just be something else. The symptoms do seem to mimic each other.

I thought I was gluten-free but have recently realised that I have been getting gluten from what I thought to be a safe source. Because, until now my immune system was so depressed I did not react as I should and thought I was reacting to something else or it was because my gut was still healing. Now I am reacting properly, and boy do I know it!

I did not get well on the diet. I still have extremely irregular periods, horrible fatigue, anemia, brain fog, and the list goes onto about 55 symptoms. I have Lyme Disease and a co-infection of it. I don't believe that gluten is what is causing my symptoms. It is possible I have Celiac disease.

All I'm really trying to say is that I don't think 1 in 3 people have Celiac Disease. There might be that many people who have an intolerance to gluten.

For me though, there is something causing all of my symptoms. How could you explain my worsening of symptoms after time on the gluten free diet. I cut out nuts, soy, sugar, starch....and still didn't get better!

I would say I'm 100% gluten free, but I don't think that's truly possible. So, I am as close to perfectly gluten free as possible. I'm not willing to be on such a strict diet for the rest of my life. I am choosing to treat the underlying conditions that are causing my food issues.

If I cut out any food for a while, and add it back in, I react to it. As a matter of fact, I react to EVERYTHING I eat! That is not normal. I don't remember the last time I ate something and wasn't nauseous. It's not just Celiac...(might not even be Celiac)

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Rachel, I feel that with all your health issues that eating gluten is going to lower your immune system. You may not think that you have any symptoms now, but wait, six months is not a long time - & the longer you keep giving your body a little gluten here & there the sooner the "cup is going to run over".

& also if you are younger you might be able to fight off the outward symptoms better - but you know you also cannot feel cancer if you get it...

Thank you for your concern....however, my cup has already run over. It started overflowing 5 years ago when I was hit with a boatload of sensitivities (food, chemical and environmental) and disabling neurolgical symtoms as well as GI symtoms.

I have spent these last 5 years doing numerous elimination diets, keeping food journals, having numerous tests done, researching, talking with doctors and most importantly listening to my body. My body does NOT handle anything which is harmful without letting me know. Once my cup started running over even the most benign substances caused my body distress. When I consume something that my body cannot handle...I know it.

My immune system does react to most things quite obviously. I can pick up some gluten containing foods and 99% of them will cause a reaction. I could very easily make the assumption that I cannot handle gluten. However, having spent so much time researching various ingredients and additional intolerances I can say with certainty that gluten is not the main issue...but rather the additional ingredients...some which may seem harmless...but are actually very toxic for me.

My body is not functioning in a way that is normal...its definately NOT normal to have to avoid mass amounts of foods. When symptoms appeared my body was telling me that something is not right...and I chose to listen.

Yes, I could ignore other factors which are known to trigger food intolerances and I could spend the rest of my life consuming only the small amounts of foods which are "safer" for me...but in the end where does that get me? Does it bring back my health? I can tell you that it doesnt.....and eliminating gluten, soy, dairy, corn, sugar, etc. etc.....did not do it either. Gluten was one of numerous foods my body could not breakdown. Thankfully, I no longer have the problems since taking specific enzymes with my meals.

I restrict the foods which cause my body the most distress....gluten containing foods that are free of chemicals and other things that my body cant process appear to be ok for me. I trust my body.

I'm not saying that gluten is 100% safe for me...but at this time there are NO foods which I can say that about. I do have to eat so I choose foods that dont cause me obvious and disabling symptoms.

As far as cancer goes....I am doing everything in my power to get my health back so that I am less susceptible to disease, food intolerance, chemical sensitivity, etc. There are things with FAR greater potential for causing disease and those are the things I'm focusing on. Gluten is less of a concern for me at this time. I dont believe that gluten would have EVER been a stressor for me if not for those other factors which I am now treating.

I do agree that the statistics for gluten intolerance is very high....however, Celiac itself is not likely the cause for most of these cases. I chose to look for the root cause of my intolerances rather than to continue eliminating most foods from my diet.

A large number of people do not get better when removing gluten alone...that tells me something. When gluten is the *only* problem we should not go on for years with continuing symptoms and additional intolerances. There is nothing "normal" about that and I do not see how it relates to Celiac once a person is gluten free for a significant amount of time.

If I believed that Celiac were a real possibility for me I would continue with my gluten-free diet however, I STILL would deal with the other factors which may have triggered Celiac to begin with. Those are the things that get ignored but remain in the body...leading to additional intolerances, additional autoimmune disease and of course cancer is always a possibility.

Had I put ALL of my focus on gluten and other symptom causing food intolerances I would have been missing the BIGGER picture. I would have been ignoring the fact that my body is still not healed and it is still is not functioning as it once did. When that happens there is a reason for it.

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I'll add my two cents.. I have five boys (only four are old enough to know since one is 6 months old)

And.. with my kids history - my pediatrician said and I quote "Might as well SKIP GRAINS with the 6 month old and go straight to fruits/vegetables since he's probably allergic to it anyway!"

so that's what we are going to do.... we are giving him rice though ;)

Anyhow my other four boys, ages 2 1/2 , 4, 6, and 7 1/2 are all gluten intolerant and the 2 1/2 , 4 and 7 1/2 are also casein intolerant. That puts it at 100% transmission of gluten intolerance (only 75% for the casein intolerance). That would be IMPOSSIBLE if the genes weren't:

a) DOMINANT

B) ONLY TAKES 1 GENE!

Scarey thought folks! Oh.. we are all negative to the celiac testing. Both my parents have reflux which went away and they are gluten-free. They still have some issues and refuse to try CF (it was hard enough to convince them of the gluten-free). My brother, his children, etc all have severe reflux and I do believe need to be gluten-free. In my immediate family, I put the incidence of Gluten intolerance at about 90% with the sole outlyer my Great Grandfather (who is still alive and kicking) and healthy as can be (hence why he doesn't have it!) AFTER I took my kids off gluten and they got cross-contaminated... THEN they showed the classic DH reaction. Until that time.. while eating gluten.. they showed no classic reaction. Another scarey thought to think about!

ENJOY!

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The 'Dangerous Grains' book I am reading at the moment is a mine if information on why gluten affects so many of us so badly. Some bonds between the amino acids that make up the gliadin and glutenin are very resistant to the digestive process. Some produce the enzymes capable of breaking it down, but many more do not.

Normally the proteins would be broken down into a form that will only pass through the mucosa, but the undigested gluten particles start to inflame the mucosal lining of the gut and it becomes permeable allowing the undigested particles through into the bloodstream. This means that the immune system is constantly in a heightened state of alert and becomes over-burdened, the adrenals are working overtime to try to cope and the body is under huge pressure (now I know why my adrenals have been sore for years!).

Whilst our problems may often appear to be caused by other foods, it is almost certainly the gluten that is causing the damage and perpetuating it. Even though gluten-free, the damage to the gut then continues to allow other food particles through and the cycle is continued. The more inflammation, the more permeability and so it goes on (that may explain why some get a bit better but then go backwards, and others don't really improve at all on gluten-free).

The ONLY way to deal with it is to avoid all grains, except perhaps rice unless you are aware of an intolerance, and just stick to plain unprocessed food. Give your body a real chance to heal.

I have seen here on the forum, some people commenting that they have been gluten-free for several years and can now tolerate some gluten. That is because their gut has finally healed and is no longer allowing the particles through in undigested form. Unfortunately it does not mean that they are no longer gluten intolerant. If they go back to eating gluten on a regular basis, eventually the cycle will start all over again.

Just out of interest, Kassandra, have you ever had a gene panel done?? It might be useful to know if you have the susceptibility to Celiac. Not a definitive diagnosis, I know, but it might just indicate whether gluten could really be a part of the puzzle or not. But, just maybe, it was the gluten that triggered it but other foods are now perpetuating the problem. Have you ever followed a very basic Elimination diet like the Specific Carb Diet?

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The 'Dangerous Grains' book I am reading at the moment is a mine if information on why gluten affects so many of us so badly. Some bonds between the amino acids that make up the gliadin and glutenin are very resistant to the digestive process. Some produce the enzymes capable of breaking it down, but many more do not.

Is the problem that a large percentage of the population do not produce the enzyme necessary to break down gliadin and casein....OR is it that a large percentage of people lose function of the enzyme??

The enzyme is called dipeptyl peptidase (DPPIV)...it is required for the digestion of gluten and casein. This enzyme is strongly inhibited by mercury and other heavy metals in the body. The enzyme is *highly* sensitive to mercury.

I hate to bring up this issue again but it is very relevant in the discussion of a gluten intolerance caused by lack of DPPIV.

A direct mechanism involving mercury

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In summary, there is good evidence that EMA and

TTG are highly sensitive and specific tests for identify-

ing individuals with celiac disease. In symptomatic individuals,

the positive predictive value of EMA and TTG assays

for finding biopsy evidence of celiac disease approaches 1.00.

In screening-identified individuals, AGA+EMA, EMA

alone and TTG alone have positive predictive values for

biopsy evidence of celiac disease ranging from 0.6 to 1.00. A

positive serological test in an individual with normal

small intestinal histology may represent a false positive

serological test, milder disease or a more sensitive test

that identifies latent celiac disease before mucosal injury.

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Is the problem that a large percentage of the population do not produce the enzyme necessary to break down gliadin and casein....OR is it that a large percentage of people lose function of the enzyme??

The enzyme is called dipeptyl peptidase (DPPIV)...it is required for the digestion of gluten and casein. This enzyme is strongly inhibited by mercury and other heavy metals in the body. The enzyme is *highly* sensitive to mercury.

I hate to bring up this issue again but it is very relevant in the discussion of a gluten intolerance caused by lack of DPPIV.

I'm not convinced that gliadin is resistant to the digestive process. I think it appears more likely that our ability to digest gluten is easily compromised....its easily inhibited or "shut down".....as a result we end up with undigested gluten particles and inflammation.

There is certainly some strength in your argument Rachel, however, that does not necessarily account for the sections of newer exposees to gluten in some areas of the world who are suffering from its effects yet have never had fillings, mercury or otherwise. Young children and babies do not have fillings, yet still suffer. There is some argument in that case that Mercury and other toxic metals may have crossed the placenta somehow and infiltrated their bodies during gestation, or even interfered with the genetic process.

Whilst toxic exposure undoubtedly is a guilty party, I still believe that by far the biggest factor is what has been done to the wheat and other grains over the last few hundred years, and particularly in more recent times. The genetic 'meddling' of the grains to make it grow in areas it was not designed to, to expose it to people who were not historically designed to consume it and to elevate the amount of gluten in the grain to make it more commercially beneficial, is, I am sure, what has done the most damage. It has compromised our immune systems and made them progressively less able to process the evil stuff.

Man knows not the damage he does.

We are extremely imperfect and growing more so every day, so it is not surprising we are suffering with these problems, but it is amazing to me to have discovered that there is one major insidious enemy behind the vast majority of them.

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There is certainly some strength in your argument Rachel, however, that does not necessarily account for the sections of newer exposees to gluten in some areas of the world who are suffering from its effects yet have never had fillings, mercury or otherwise.

Fillings are definately a major source of exposure....however, we are ALL exposed to mercury....fillings or no fillings. There is noone on this planet that will not have some amount of mercury in their body.

DPPIV is inhibitied by very small amounts of mercury.

People who are genetically more susceptible to mercury will probably be more likely to have problems such as loss of enzyme function.

Young children and babies do not have fillings, yet still suffer. There is some argument in that case that Mercury and other toxic metals may have crossed the placenta somehow and infiltrated their bodies during gestation, or even interfered with the genetic process.

Dont forget that young babies and children recieve large doses of mercury in their shots (vaccinations).

It is proven that substantial amounts of mercury vapor (from amalgams) cross the placenta and levels of mercury in babies correlates directly with the amount of fillings in the mothers mouth. The fetus is extremely susceptible to mercury. Each additional exposure after birth (including mercury excreted in breast milk) will add to the body burden. It is cumulative and in some parts of the body it never leaves on its own (particularly the brain).

Children are definately exposed to mercury and they are also more susceptible to its toxicity.

Whilst toxic exposure undoubtedly is a guilty party, I still believe that by far the biggest factor is what has been done to the wheat and other grains over the last few hundred years, and particularly in more recent times. The genetic 'meddling' of the grains to make it grow in areas it was not designed to, to expose it to people who were not historically designed to consume it and to elevate the amount of gluten in the grain to make it more commercially beneficial, is, I am sure, what has done the most damage.

We are extremely imperfect and growing more so every day, so it is not surprising we are suffering with these problems, but it is amazing to me to have discovered that there is one major insidious enemy behind the vast majority of them.

No doubt there is some truth to this...however, I do not believe that there is a single "major insideous eneny" behind all of these issues. Its more likely that its a combination of things contributing to the health issues which are so common today.

As you said...young babies are suffering. Alot of these babies are already sick before they are even exposed to hard to digest gluteny foods. Its not just grains that people are having problems with....dairy is right up there with gluten....and then there is soy, nuts, eggs, yeast, preservatives, additives and on and on and on.

Why so many problems breaking down and eliminating these foods....even on a gluten-free diet?

Mercury is the only thing that has the ability to inhibit *any* enzyme in the body. There is no enzyme in the body which cannot be blocked by mercury. I'm not aware of any other metal, toxin, infection, food, etc...which is capable of that.

When we lose enzyme function we cannot break down the foods we are consuming....and this leads to constant inflammation.

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Just out of interest, Kassandra, have you ever had a gene panel done?? It might be useful to know if you have the susceptibility to Celiac. Not a definitive diagnosis, I know, but it might just indicate whether gluten could really be a part of the puzzle or not. But, just maybe, it was the gluten that triggered it but other foods are now perpetuating the problem. Have you ever followed a very basic Elimination diet like the Specific Carb Diet?

I do have one Celiac gene...I was tested. I don't remember which one though. I also have one "gluten intolerant" gene.

I have indeed tried darn near every diet....doesn't matter. I get nauseous no matter what food I eat. So, whether I eat plain chicken and carrots or ice cream, I get sick to my stomach. The thing is, I believe that there is either something going on physically (ie, ulcer, etc.) or I have a crazy case of leaky gut. There are NO safe foods for me.

And I've done the SCD and I felt terrible on it. So, I am not going to keep trying diets. I will go dairy free again in a couple weeks (long story) and I will stay gluten free and soy free. But I am continuing to look at my food problems as having an underlying condition. I will NOT be 17 and unable to eat a huge list of foods for the rest of my life. That is no way to live.

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I really do feel for you. It has been bad enough for me at 50 but to be suffering like that when you are 17 is a 'rum do'.

I can't cope with either gluten or dairy as well as a few other foods. When things were really bad I did get to the stage where I was frightened to eat at all so I can sympathise with that.

If your gut is extremely damaged and permeable you will be getting reactions to a lot of different foods as the particles slip through the 'holes' rather than being digested and absorbed in the 'proper' way.

As I read the 'Dangerous Grains' book today, something suddenly clicked with me. It wasn't in the book but the info has enabled me to work it out. Not sure if its right but it makes a lot of sense.

I am diabetic. Diabetics have problems processing sugar and carbs properly. Typically their blood sugar tends to rise steeply after eating. I was thinking about the co-relation between the sugar level and leaky gut. I can now pinpoint when my leaky gut started - when my blood sugars started to rise. Although I wasn't aware of it at the time, I am reckoning it probably tied in with when my weight started to rise when I was around 20. Those Celiacs who suffer with weight gain are almost certainly the ones with leaky gut, especially as the weight gain is so often linked with diabetes.

Because the sugars were 'leaking' through the gut wall straight into the bloodstream instead of being processed by the villi and ending up in the liver for later distribution, that would account for the elevated sugar levels, and probably the weight gain too in susceptible individuals. Because the levels werere then so high every time I ate, the pancreas had to work overtime to counteract the levels by pushing out progressively more and more insulin as the permeability increased.

The inflammation caused by the gluten continues to expand the permeability and the problem gets worse and worse until the pancreas finally calls it a day and pulls down the blinds - the point where I had to resort to insulin. Even then, I still have struggled to get the blood sugar down low enough to a 'normal' level. The accompanying fatigue may occur because the sugars are not being delivered via the liver in a form that the cells can use effectively. I would suspect that rather than the problem being due to 'insulin resistance' it is more likely due to 'wrong type of sugar' resistance!

For some years prior to the diabetic diagnosis I would get a lot of hypos. I suspect it was due to the same thing - the leaking sugars made the pancreas so sensitive that it would tend to push out more insulin than was necessary, plummeting the blood sugar levels.

The whole thing is just self-perpetuating. I had a feeling leaky gut was involved somehow, I just never made the connection until now. Since discovering the gluten link, so much of what I have learned and come to know over the years is falling into place. It's like a jigsaw puzzle!

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Fillings are definately a major source of exposure....however, we are ALL exposed to mercury....fillings or no fillings. There is noone on this planet that will not have some amount of mercury in their body.

DPPIV is inhibitied by very small amounts of mercury.

People who are genetically more susceptible to mercury will probably be more likely to have problems such as loss of enzyme function.

It all makes sense but whole civilisations have been exposed to high levels of mercury for thousands of years.

Cinnabar was used in inks, cosmetics etc. from ancient china through India and Egypt and Greek and Rome.

Traditional Indian and Chinese medicine used mercury tablets as a "life enhancer" ...zhū shā / 朱沙

Add other heavy metal toxicity in cosmetics such as antimony and lead and the amounts of heavy metals the average person is exposed to was always high... at least since what we call civilisation. Pewter was used extensively as tableware, the common pewter (not what Kingsand Queens had) contained significant amounts of lead. People drank from it and ate off it... stored food in it... etc.

Romans used Lead almost exclusively providing water in cities...

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It all makes sense but whole civilisations have been exposed to high levels of mercury for thousands of years.

Cinnabar was used in inks, cosmetics etc. from ancient china through India and Egypt and Greek and Rome.

Traditional Indian and Chinese medicine used mercury tablets as a "life enhancer" ...zhū shā / 朱沙

There are different forms of mercury. They are not all equal in their toxicity and the body doesnt handle them all the same....some forms are more easily excreted. Mercury vapor from amalgams is a very toxic form of mercury which is readily absorbed into the nervous system....into the cells, into the brain, etc.

There is also the effects of synergy (which I discussed in another thread). Amalgams are a mix of metals...in the presence of other metals the toxicity of mercury increases significantly. Exposure to metals from other sources also reacts with mercury that is already in the body. A person with amalgam fillings will have mercury stored in various body sites. Other metals (from any source) can increase the toxicity of mercury.

Toxins almost never come alone. They come in synergistically acting package-deals. Mercury alone is toxic. Together with zinc it is many times more toxic, add in a little copper and silver, as in dental amalgam fillings and the detrimental effect to the body increases manyfold.

Together with mercaptan and thioether (dental toxins) the toxic amalgam effects grow exponentially. Add in a little PCB and dioxin, as in fish, and the illness causing effect of the methyl mercury in fish increases manyfold.

Toxicology is to a large degree the study of synergistic effects. In synergy 1 plus 1 = 100. Heavy metals are primarily neurotoxins There is a synergistic effect between all neurotoxins which is responsible for the illness producing effect.

As the toxixity of our environment increases so does the osmotic pressure, pushing the often man- made poisons into our body.

The world that we're living in now is much different than it was thousands of years ago. That has to be taken into consideration. Thousands of years ago we did not have 1 in 94 boys being diagnosed with Autism either.

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It all makes sense but whole civilisations have been exposed to high levels of mercury for thousands of years.

Cinnabar was used in inks, cosmetics etc. from ancient china through India and Egypt and Greek and Rome.

Traditional Indian and Chinese medicine used mercury tablets as a "life enhancer" ...zhū shā / 朱沙

Add other heavy metal toxicity in cosmetics such as antimony and lead and the amounts of heavy metals the average person is exposed to was always high... at least since what we call civilisation. Pewter was used extensively as tableware, the common pewter (not what Kingsand Queens had) contained significant amounts of lead. People drank from it and ate off it... stored food in it... etc.

Romans used Lead almost exclusively providing water in cities...

Apparently lead may have been contributory in the downfall of the Roman Empire -

One of the main reasons the Romans held on to Britain was that it was the chief source of tin and lead for the Roman Empire. The baths themselves were lined with lead and the lead pipes which the Romans built for drainage and water flow, are still to be seen to this day. Ironically, many historians, teaming up with medical researchers now theorize that it was this metal that led to Rome's downfall.

Towards the end of the Roman Empire, her Aristocracy was extensively using lead, not only for piping its water supply, but also eating off leaden plates, drinking from lead mugs and so on. The theory now concludes that the Aristocracy, which included all the Leaders, Senators, Generals and the like, were getting a regular overdose of lead from this usage. Excess lead in the system deposits in the brain and leads to madness, infertility in women and a drastically lowered sperm count in men. It was the deterioration of Rome's leadership, this theory argues, caused by massive lead poisoning of the Roman Empires ruling classes that led to the collapse of Rome's power.

It is only a theory, but an interesting one nonetheless.

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There are different forms of mercury. They are not all equal in their toxicity and the body doesnt handle them all the same....some forms are more easily excreted. Mercury vapor from amalgams is a very toxic form of mercury which is readily absorbed into the nervous system....into the cells, into the brain, etc.

There is also the effects of synergy (which I discussed in another thread). Amalgams are a mix of metals...in the presence of other metals the toxicity of mercury increases significantly. Exposure to metals from other sources also reacts with mercury that is already in the body. A person with amalgam fillings will have mercury stored in various body sites. Other metals (from any source) can increase the toxicity of mercury.

Yes however in these cultures people were exposed to mercury and other heavy metals through the environment in far higher doses... so evenif it was not the same form they were still getting mercury, antimony and lead.

The world that we're living in now is much different than it was thousands of years ago. That has to be taken into consideration. Thousands of years ago we did not have 1 in 94 boys being diagnosed with Autism either.

No they were just abandoned, killed or treated like lepers...

I'm not saying it was 1:94 ... I'm just saying it wasn't diagnosed.

Even though coeliac (spelled correctly for a reason) was known about (for almost 2000 years) it was not diagnosed in the VAST majority of people ... because the vast majority were simply lucky to just be alive.

The numbers of children diagnosed with auto-immune and other allergies today is simply explained by them being alive... and medicine testing.

Without modern medicine many of these children would not have been conceived, MOST of them would never have lived long enough ...

Yes we live in different times... prior to the 1600's only pre-columbian tribes had access to peanuts... Europeans and Asians did not need to worry about peanut allergy because it didn't exist outside what would become latin america. people allergic to bee stings just died....

Our food has also changed DRASTICALLY....

Almost all the store bought food contains so many different sources... not just additives but vegetables that are only available imported from exotic, far-away places.

All of this together contributes to the allergies today.... and mercury amalgam fillings may play a part as well but we cannot ignore the fact that people worked with mercury based inks, wore clothes treated with mercury and in cases BATHED in baths of it... (syphilis) ...

Just because fillings represents the biggest contributor TODAY means nothing for the past.

The Romans were well versed in its toxicity. Working in cinnabar mines was a death sentence... a practice also continued in Spain

"The prisoners, known as forzados, were selected out of criminals waiting for transport to the galleys in the jail of Toledo. Those selected usually had limited sentences and good physical abilities. Murderers and capital criminals were rarely selected, as the galleys were considered a far harsher punishment than the mines of Almad

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Yes however in these cultures people were exposed to mercury and other heavy metals through the environment in far higher doses... so evenif it was not the same form they were still getting mercury, antimony and lead.

We did not have more environmenal mercury during those times. We have more now! I already posted several quotes with info. about the rising levels of environmental mercury in the last thread where we discussed this.

Fish is more contaminated with mecury now as well.

The numbers of children diagnosed with auto-immune and other allergies today is simply explained by them being alive... and medicine testing.

Without modern medicine many of these children would not have been conceived, MOST of them would never have lived long enough ...

This is not true. While I was growing up kids didnt have these issues. We had tests for allergies...they just werent as much of an issue during that time.

This is only in the past few decades that we're seeing a tremendous increase in food intolerance, asthma, allergies, etc.

I had never even heard of Autism during all my years growing up. Its now considered to be an epidemic....with ENVIRONMENTAL triggers....including mercury.

All of this together contributes to the allergies today.... and mercury amalgam fillings may play a part as well but we cannot ignore the fact that people worked with mercury based inks, wore clothes treated with mercury and in cases BATHED in baths of it... (syphilis) ...

You're right....Syphillis was treated with mercury because of its anti-bacterial properties....however, many of them DIED from mercury poisoning. Obviously it wasnt the best choice of treatment but antibiotics were not around during that time. You'd think we'd learn from our mistakes??

Just because fillings represents the biggest contributor TODAY means nothing for the past.

The Romans were well versed in its toxicity. Working in cinnabar mines was a death sentence... a practice also continued in Spain

Honestly, mercury in the past means nothing to me. I'm not concerned with thousands of years ago. I'm concerned with whats going on NOW. I'm concerned that we have 1 in 150 kids diagnosed with Autism and many more who have learning disabilities, allergies, etc.

I'm concerned because my own amalgams and the combination of disimilar metals in my mouth have caused a great deal of toxicity which robbed me of my health. I'm concerned because this is not uncommon! I'm concerned because my Dr.'s have waiting lists because so many people are dealing with this kind of thing.

I'm very concerned that most people who are chronically ill have high levels of mercury and other heavy metals in their system.

Truthfully, I'm ONLY concerned about TODAY....and for TOMORROW...but I'm not concerned about what the Romans did with lead thousands of years ago. It was not uncommon for people to die from mercury poisoning during those times. It was not smart to bathe in mercury then and its not smart to have it in our mouths NOW. Its not smart to be injecting it into our children.

The toxicity of mercury is no secret...lets not pretend that its ok just because its always been here. People got poisoned then and we're still getting poisoned today.

I mentioned synergy already....here are some of the things that increase mercury's toxicity TODAY.

Mercury toxicity potentiating factors ( Synergy factors):

Synergy means: 1 + 1 = 100 (or more then 2)

zinc and copper

toxins from dental/jaw infections ( most significant)

stress (excess exercise, lack of sleep/rest)

presence of other toxins: lead, aluminum, cadmium, solvents, insecticides/herbicides/pesticides

aspartame

vaccinations

gold fillings/crowns present with amalgam fillings

food allergies, especially wheat

As you can see....alot of these things wouldnt have been issues thousands of years ago.

The most significant is the toxins from dental and jaw infections....this is primarily caused by root canals. Were root canals routinely done thousands of years ago? Did most people have at least 1 root canal in their mouth back then?

Stress....we all know that in modern times we are all dealing with quite a bit of stress. I'm not sure if thousands of years ago they had the same pressures that we all have today?

Presence of other toxins....its no secret that chemicals and toxins are a MAJOR issue today. Thousands of chemicals are on the market with hundreds more put out there each year. The majority are not tested for safety. They did not have this kind of exposure to toxins thousands of years ago.

Aspartame...I'm pretty sure it wasnt around thousands of years ago. However, its definately out there now! In fact, most people are consuming it daily!

Vaccinations....definately not the issue thousands of years ago. Today they are a major contributer in Autism.

Gold Fillings/Crowns present with amalgam fillings.....Again, this wasnt an issue thousands of years ago. This one hits home for me because after my fillings were drilled out unsafely they were replaced by gold crowns. I still had 2 amalgams in my mouth...both in direct contact with the new gold crowns. This causes an electrical current (galvanic reaction) which draws LARGE amounts of mercury and all metals from the amalgams. I had the pleasure of experiencing that..and it only took a few short weeks to rob me of my health.

Food allergies...especially wheat. As we know when gluten is not broken down it can have a big impact on our health. If its not properly digested it is a neurotoxin. All neurotoxins increase mercury's toxicity. Mercury can be the cause of the body's inability to digest gluten...and once that happens gluten can have some devestating effects on our health. As we know.....we are consuming ALOT more wheat now than we were thousands of years ago.

Put all of that together and I think its very clear that we are in a different situation than what you're discussing about past centuries. Not only do we have fillings in our mouths exposing us to mercury vapor constantly...but we also are exposed to a great deal of things which have the ability to increase its toxicity.

Maybe that isnt alarming to you....but in my opinion its a really big deal.

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We can go on having an inquest about why we are sick, indefinitely.

We are sick because this world is sick, and I for one am sick of it. Man just makes a mess of everything and although I am trying to improve my health I know even if I do I will still die at the end of it.

There is only one solution to it all, coming very shortly and not only does mankind not have it, he doesn't get it either and most of the time just chooses to ignore it completely!

But hey, what's different - the vast majority ignore Celiac too - nothing ever changes! They moan and groan about their ailments yet tell them the good news about Celiac and they don't want to know.

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I do have one Celiac gene...I was tested. I don't remember which one though. I also have one "gluten intolerant" gene.

I have indeed tried darn near every diet....doesn't matter. I get nauseous no matter what food I eat. So, whether I eat plain chicken and carrots or ice cream, I get sick to my stomach. The thing is, I believe that there is either something going on physically (ie, ulcer, etc.) or I have a crazy case of leaky gut. There are NO safe foods for me.

And I've done the SCD and I felt terrible on it. So, I am not going to keep trying diets. I will go dairy free again in a couple weeks (long story) and I will stay gluten free and soy free. But I am continuing to look at my food problems as having an underlying condition. I will NOT be 17 and unable to eat a huge list of foods for the rest of my life. That is no way to live.

Look around you right now. How much of the stuff you see is edible? Why do you expect to be able to eat the stuff you think of as "food"? What makes you think it's "food"?

For any of us, there's an entire world of inedible stuff. The things which make most of us expect to be able to eat the things we want are social paradigms .......expectations inserted in our psyches by our parents, peers and addictions.

Find out what you can eat. That's "food", and the rest of it is just stuff.

..

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There is only one solution to it all, coming very shortly and not only does mankind not have it, he doesn't get it either and most of the time just chooses to ignore it completely!

There are always going to be people who choose to ignore...however, I do think that people are really starting to "come around". Little by little I see the changes....the shift toward alternative medicine rather than conventional drugs to mask symtoms, the growing interest in organic foods as well as foods free of additives and other harmful ingredients.

People are talking about these things more and more. I work in a grocery store and I can see it.

The more we are AWARE...and the more we are INFORMED....the more likely there will be changes made. If *everyone* chose to ignore....then yes...we will continue on as we have and things will only get worse.

Changes are only being made because the voices are getting louder and louder. Mercury is still in some vaccines.....however, I think at some point it will be removed completely. For the most part amalgams are being phased out of dentistry. Some dentists are still using them but its getting less and less common.

Last year I spoke to a woman who was representing the dental office where my previous dentist still practices and still uses amalgams. They are aware of what happened to me as a result of the dental work. She was very knowledgeable about mercury and the health risks involved....however, as she stated....my mercury burden could have come from ANYWHERE. There is no way to prove that the amalgams were the cause...there is no way to prove that it wouldnt have eventually happened anyway. I could very well be extremely mercury toxic as a direct result of the fillings....BUT...there is no way to prove it. Those were her words.

We know that I went into that dental office healthy....or asymptomatic at least....and I've never been the same since. But she's right....I cant prove anything. Mercury comes from many sources.

She said that as of now this particular dentist still chooses to use amalgam in his practice. Until the day comes that he is told to STOP using them...he's going to continue....regardless. She did say that there will come a time when the ADA bans the use of amalgams....but until that day they will continue to use them.

And we cant prove anything.

Thats why its important to educate ourselves on these issues. No changes will ever occur if we all choose to ignore. Thankfully, people are starting to take notice.

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For any of us, there's an entire world of inedible stuff. The things which make most of us expect to be able to eat the things we want are social paradigms .......expectations inserted in our psyches by our parents, peers and addictions.

Find out what you can eat. That's "food", and the rest of it is just stuff.

I think what she was saying is that she cant eat *anything* without having reactions. I've had the same problem with foods for a few years....NOTHING is safe.

Its only been recently that I've been able to add a few things back in...but still...I'm not to the point where reactions do not occur at all. I havent experienced that with ANY food since I first got sick.

I dont think we are concerned with eating "inedible stuff". I've spent the last few years primarily eating organic whole foods. As far as meats go I only ate organic grass fed beef for almost 2 years. I've gone long periods of time eating only the purest foods....nothing processed...and I still reacted.

I would have been very happy to eat "food"....my body just wasnt having it. Nothing was safe.

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But hey, what's different - the vast majority ignore Celiac too - nothing ever changes! They moan and groan about their ailments yet tell them the good news about Celiac and they don't want to know.

For every few people who are uninterested....there is always one that IS interested. There ARE people who really do want to reclaim their health. I was one of them. The first time I heard of Celiac was in 2004....and I started reading whatever I could. I asked my Dr. to test me and I was negative.

It was a huge disappointment to me...but I still learned what I could, I joined this board, I got serious about the diet. I was very determined....it just wasnt the answer for me because I dont actually have Celiac.

Despite the fact that my symptoms didnt resolve I'm still very happy to have learned so much in the meantime.

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a whole culture based on wheat!

Actually, you have a point. Human civilization (complex, straftified society) cannot exist without grain. Grain can be grown and stored for future consumption, freeing up time for people to do other things besides gather food. Grain is a valuable commodity that allows some members of society to accumulate wealth and thus exert power over others. Grain, especially wheat, is a very important economic and political tool. Powerful nations grow it in abundance and export it to poor nations in order to remove local food sources by undercutting prices. Farmland is then bought up by corporations and used for export cash crops like mangoes, chocolate, tomatoes and flowers, while local labor goes to work in factories (and eats imported, genetically modified, high-gluten wheat).

I could go on and on. This stuff is well documented and taught in anthropology and economics classes at colleges.

So what would happen to the world economy if everyone stopped eating wheat?

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Rachel,

What do you recommend for getting rid of amalgam fillings? I've got oh, I think about 12 or 13 in this mouth...and most of them cover the whole tooth. I had a urine provocation test of metals and the mercury was elevated but not alarmingly. Lead was higher. And the synergy of those two is not good. i'm 42, just recently diagnosed celiac, have hypothyroid, and suffered tons of anxiety/depression most of my life (started getting fillings about 5 or 6 years old).

I don't have the money right now, but am hoping to soon start a slow removal of the fillings. Do you recommend chelation?

thanks!

Liz

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I just posted about my doctor's visit today. The doc told me that they do believe Celiac to be hugely underdiagnosed, simply because it DOES manifest itslef in so many ways. He said many of the people he's diagnosed had no GI symptoms at all, but were severely anemic, had terrible headaches, etc. I would say though, compared to the first guy I went to, he seemed light years ahead. He obviously takes the time to stay ahead, but I'm not so sure that many doctors take the time to do the same.

He took one look at my negative Celiac panel and told me they were worthless, because he knew what to look for. The last dr did not. But many people see that first GI I saw and stick with what he says. It's a shame, because there is so much information that relates Celiac to a whole host of issues, but unless you have "classic, textbook" symptoms, you are left out in the cold. Until the "textbook" changes, this epidemic will remain undiagnosed for many.

I agree. If the Ttg test is supposed to be specific to Celiac, it would only make sense that ANY number would be indicative of Celiac. It is like we say all the time: either you are pregnant or not. There is no inbetween. I think it should be the same with Celiac. If it's detectable, then you are positive. End of story. Which then leaves people like me: IgA deficient. What to do with me???

My husband was "classic textbook" celiac and he was misdiagnosed by a good number of internists and gastro doctors both in the Veteran's Hospital System, and private doctors including a very large medical group here in NJ who will remain nameless who pride themselves on being the best (their practice is even in a "hoity-toity" area of our state). During the time of the "best" group, the anti-body test was available and I even gave the gastro the diagnosis on a silver platter: I said to this bonehead doctor: It's as if my husband isn't absorbing his calories, fats or nutrients (keep in mind that he was anemic and his blood wasn't clotting quickly enough - Vitamin K deficiency).

The doctor turned on me and said "It's nothing like that going on here." The doctor made me so upset I cried all the way home as now this doctor was telling my husband his medical condition was in his head & he needed psychological help. This doctor was just too proud to consider my observations of the symptoms. He could have saved face by

responding - gee, I wsh I knew this when you first got here (or say some balloney like that) - this

apparently is indicative of celiac disease, blah, blah and my husband would have been diagnosed a good 10 years earlier than he was. We paid TOP DOLLAR for this medical group - it was not through an HMO.

No instead we were directed to a psychologist & psychiatrist.

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I had a urine provocation test of metals and the mercury was elevated but not alarmingly. Lead was higher. And the synergy of those two is not good.

Usually what you're seeing in a provocation test is only a tiny fraction of whats actually stored in the body. I'm not sure which chealtor was used for your challenge but each one has a strong affinity for certain metals and will pull those out first. EDTA is used primarily to treat lead poisoning but its a "weak" chelator for mercury. If you use EDTA then you might see higher levels of lead then you would if you were using a chelator with a stronger attraction for another metal.

Do you know which chelator was used?

I use DMPS which has a strong attraction for mercury but an even higher affinity for copper and zinc. I have to watch those levels and supplement as needed. I dont supplement copper since I actually have toxic copper levels right now.

I have not yet seen my mercury levels rise out of the reference range. The only one which has been off the charts is copper and when that comes down we are hoping to see more of the mercury coming out.

My Dr.'s say that usually the first challenges are low...it can take awhile for the mercury to start showing up in higher levels. In the end results would look like a bellcurve....it might take several treatments until you see it start to rise and then eventually it comes back down again.

Certain people have more difficulty excreting mercury (common with autistic children) so it takes even longer and certain genetic weaknesses or deficiencies may have to be addressed before they are able to start dumping out the mercury.

I don't have the money right now, but am hoping to soon start a slow removal of the fillings. Do you recommend chelation?

You cant do any type of chelation with filings still in place and no Dr. should ever be attempting that but if you mean after you've removed the fillings...then yes. Removing the fillings only removes the source of exposure but you still have to address whats been stored in the body for years...so chelation is actually necessary if you are wanting to get rid of the mercury that may be causing you health problems.

The best way to go about getting them removed is to find a biological dentist in your area who will remove them safely. Never let anyone take them out who does not follow a protocol for safety....this includes special equipment which sucks the mercury vapor from the room to minimize your exposure. If a dentist isnt doing this he his putting you and himself at risk.

Thats the most important part of the removal process because if not removed correctly you can end up sicker from high exposure to mercury...which is what happened to me because I didnt know anything about it at the time. I didnt even know the fillings had mercury in them.

Its better to get them out slowly.....but not too slowly. If a person reaches their threshold and becomes very toxic the removals can become difficult because the immune system takes a big hit each time....even if you are having them removed correctly some exposure is inevitable. Some people end up too sick to handle the removal process. Its better to do it while your still not having alot of problems and your immune system isnt totally knocked down by mercury or other things.

After each removal there are supplements you can take to help your body eliminate any mercury you were exposed to. If you dont do anything then after a short period of time the mercury gets stored somewhere and is no longer circulating where it can be more easily eliminated.

For all the stuff thats stored away you need a chelator to get that out....but that is not until way later when you've gotten all of the fillings removed.

These are all of the toxic metals which have shown up in every provocation test I've had so far

Antimony (This showed up in my hair analysis)

Arsenic

Cadmium (this also showed up elevated in my hair analysis)

Lead

Mercury

Nickel

Thallium

Tin

Tungsten

Then theres the copper which is an essential element but if the levels are too high it becomes toxic. I have copper more than 4 times the reference range....it was off the charts.

Talk about synergy!! :blink:

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Rachel--

Are you an artist or around an arts studio? I ask because many of these metals are used in paint pigments (like the cadmium yellow) and metalurgy for casting and the like. Stained glass workers use lead and coppers. And then there is the radioactive stuff (the girls who painted glow-in-the-dark watch dials used to get cancer from the paint).

You can absord these metals through the skin (Roman women used a lead-based makeup, btw. They find little pots of it from time to time). I am not sure about the gaseous forms, but I think it is also possible (I seem to remember that UTZI-- the ice man they found on the Italy/Austria border-- had high levels of dangerous metals from working around them, they surmise). I often wonder about how much of this stuiff we absorb as I paint and I know that some of the materials I use are quite toxic.

Plus we ingest these things from our food and water (they used to preserve civil war casualties in arsenic and it would seep into the ground water from the cemeteries.... ugh!) And when I was a kid we had lead based paints all over. There is still some in my basement and I know I have been exposed.

And then there is the question of fish-- they find all of this old lead buckshot in the waters around here and they know it gets the birds. Not to mention toy soldiers and smallmetal toys.

The world is a very scary place sometimes!

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