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Seeking2012

Heavy Metals Testing - How To Do It Right?

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Hi Seeking,

 

I wanted to offer a reason the heavy metal theory may not make sense for a cause of celiac disease.  There are certain genes associated with celiac disease, and the people with those genes are the ones who tend to get develop celiac disease.  Other people don't get it.  Heavy metals wouldn't discriminate based on people's genes right?  There would be people without celiac genes having heavy metal loads also.  Yet there aren't lots of cases of people without the celiac genes devloping celiac disease.  So it seems like a link between heavy metals as a cause is not likely IMHO.  Just a thot, or another way to think of it.  I hope it helps.

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That isn't a valid explanation, in my opinion, GFinDC because you could just counter with "it only affects those who have the propensity to develop the disease."  The best reason is that there is no evidence.  There are many things that we have increased exposure to that could be a contributing factor with celiac disease.  What has increased in recent years: computer use, the use of cell phones, more exposure to power lines, more exposure to homone mimicers in plastics, more exposure to car exhaust, more particulate matter in the atmosphere, more use of pesticides such as round up.  The thing is that correlation does not equal causation.  To link one of these things as a cause we need actual evidence.

 

The study quoted for evidence above was not of a large number of celiac patients, it was for a small number of people with other medical conditions.

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@seeking2012 — Heavy metal poisoning is increasingly rare. Decades ago, lead in paint and gasoline were a major issue. Unless you have a particular reason to think you have been exposed, I suspect that your CFS has some other cause.

 

Some "alternative" practitioners try to promote the myth that this is common, but I recommend that you work with a qualified physician. Likewise, supposed "detox" methods can be dangerous, so you need to work with a pro. I recently was told about a kid whose parents subjected him to a "detox" program. In my opinion, this was unethical medical research on a child who is not old enough to offer informed consent.

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@seeking2012 — Heavy metal poisoning is increasingly rare. Decades ago, lead in paint and gasoline were a major issue. Unless you have a particular reason to think you have been exposed, I suspect that your CFS has some other cause.

 

Some "alternative" practitioners try to promote the myth that this is common, but I recommend that you work with a qualified physician. Likewise, supposed "detox" methods can be dangerous, so you need to work with a pro. I recently was told about a kid whose parents subjected him to a "detox" program. In my opinion, this was unethical medical research on a child who is not old enough to offer informed consent.

 

I am interested in any logical, scientific explanation--especially conclusive testing--that can explain CFS. I wonder what, in your mind, consitutes a "qualified" physician?

 

I read on your profile on a certain website that "Peter spent most of his career developing novel therapies for diseases in fields including autoimmunity, allergy, and cancer." I wonder what you have discovered during your career that could be a cause for autoimmunity, allergy and cancer, but especially the former. I didn't find anything written by you on Pubmed.

 

You come to this forum and immediately dismiss what I have said. You didn't indicate that you read anything about the subject on Pubmed, so I'm going to assume that you have not. And then you fail to offer any alternative ideas about the causes of autoimmune diseases and CFS. I'm not interested in dismissals. I wonder who called you over here to the forum to attempt to silence me, to make me give up, go home, and say "ho-hum I'll just think about something else now."

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I am interested in any logical, scientific explanation--especially conclusive testing--that can explain CFS. I wonder what, in your mind, consitutes a "qualified" physician?

 

I read on your profile on a certain website that "Peter spent most of his career developing novel therapies for diseases in fields including autoimmunity, allergy, and cancer." I wonder what you have discovered during your career that could be a cause for autoimmunity, allergy and cancer, but especially the former. I didn't find anything written by you on Pubmed.

 

You come to this forum and immediately dismiss what I have said. You didn't indicate that you read anything about the subject on Pubmed, so I'm going to assume that you have not. And then you fail to offer any alternative ideas about the causes of autoimmune diseases and CFS. I'm not interested in dismissals. I wonder who called you over here to the forum to attempt to silence me, to make me give up, go home, and say "ho-hum I'll just think about something else now."

I don't think he can give you a scientific explanation for Chronic Fatigue - because there really aren't any. This is something at is still being researched.

You know, many of us have worked on research but our names aren't on the official papers. Research requires the work of a lot of " little people".

You refuse to be tested for Celiac, yet keep coming on a celiac forum to get info about non- Celiac stuff. When people try to steer you back to some simpler explanations for your issues - like Celiac- you appear to ignore that and prefer to argue more obscure illnesses. I am not sure there is much more we can do for you?

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  Seeking2012  

 

While I agree with you that heavy metal toxicity  or poisoning happens more often than some of the members in this forum will  agree with ,,, (as I stated in my earlier post I am personally dealing with copper toxicity)  I have to agree with kareng that this forum may not be the best forum  in regard to your heavy metal issues/ questions

 

You have stated that thyroid and celiac testing are on your "to do list" please let us know how that testing works out for you,, Be well 

 

 

 

 **before someone asks** yes my copper toxicity was diagnosed by a  competent  doctor     

.Fred Askari, M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor Director, Wilson's Disease Center of Excellence Clinic at the University of Michigan .   not an "alternative" practitioner     

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  Seeking2012  

 

While I agree with you that heavy metal toxicity  or poisoning happens more often than some of the members in this forum with agree with ,,, (as I stated in my earlier post I am personally dealing with copper toxicity)  I have to agree with kareng that this forum may not be the best forum  in regard to your heavy metal issues/ questions

 

You have stated that thyroid and celiac testing are on your "to do list" please let us know how that testing works out for you,, Be well 

 

 

 

 **before someone asks** yes my copper toxicity was diagnosed by a  competent  doctor     

.Fred Askari, M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor Director, Wilson's Disease Center of Excellence Clinic at the University of Michigan .   not an "alternative" practitioner     

 

My I ask how you were exposed to high levels of copper?  I'm an inorganic chemist and have worked with all sorts of metals in the lab, so that's why I ask.

 

Seeking2012: You can find published papers of individuals by searching Google Scholar or a similar search engine.  Not everything is on PubMed.

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My I ask how you were exposed to high levels of copper?  I'm an inorganic chemist and have worked with all sorts of metals in the lab, so that's why I ask.

 

Seeking2012: You can find published papers of individuals by searching Google Scholar or a similar search engine.  Not everything is on PubMed.

It is not  a matter of high exposure to copper ,, we all ingest  the copper that is naturally found in our food ,for most people any excess copper ingested  is eliminated ,, in my case  my body does not eliminate  excess copper properly .

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It is not  a matter of high exposure to copper ,, we all ingest  the copper that is naturally found in our food ,for most people any excess copper ingested  is eliminated ,, in my case  my body does not eliminate  excess copper properly .

 

Again, I'm being snoopy, but why is that?  Do you have some previously unknown medical condition that doesn't let you eliminate it?  Does it also make you not eliminate other metals?  Please don't think I'm doubting or accusing you of imagined illness.  I'm curious only.  Is it some condition thought to be similar to Wilson's disease?   Did you respond to treatment?  I hope you are feeling better.

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My I ask how you were exposed to high levels of copper?  I'm an inorganic chemist and have worked with all sorts of metals in the lab, so that's why I ask.

 

The person you are questioning has already said they have the symptoms of wilsons disease, just not the currently known genetic mutation.  We all consume copper in our everyday diets, which usually isn't a problem unless you have a problem eliminating it, like they do.  So they likely did not have an overexposure, just a natural buildup over time without the output.

 

Years ago we actually had a scare with my husband of possibly having wilsons disease, turned out to just be arthritic knees (yay for overreacting but glad to get it eliminated I guess) and they immediately had him go on a low copper diet.  To me at the time it was eliminating a bunch of seemingly random dark colored foods, you can look it up more info at http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/wilsons-disease/basics/definition/con-20043499.

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 I'm not interested in dismissals. I wonder who called you over here to the forum to attempt to silence me, to make me give up, go home, and say "ho-hum I'll just think about something else now."

 

No one "called him to the forum". No one has dismissed you.

 

You came on there asking questions. You just do not like any of the answers.

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The person you are questioning has already said they have the symptoms of wilsons disease, just not the currently known genetic mutation.  We all consume copper in our everyday diets, which usually isn't a problem unless you have a problem eliminating it, like they do.  So they likely did not have an overexposure, just a natural buildup over time without the output.

 

Years ago we actually had a scare with my husband of possibly having wilsons disease, turned out to just be arthritic knees (yay for overreacting but glad to get it eliminated I guess) and they immediately had him go on a low copper diet.  To me at the time it was eliminating a bunch of seemingly random dark colored foods, you can look it up more info at http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/wilsons-disease/basics/definition/con-20043499.

    

Glad to hear your hubby does not have wilsons. I have to admit  wilsons  is  very scary   :ph34r:

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Again, I'm being snoopy, but why is that?  Do you have some previously unknown medical condition that doesn't let you eliminate it?  Does it also make you not eliminate other metals?  Please don't think I'm doubting or accusing you of imagined illness.  I'm curious only.  Is it some condition thought to be similar to Wilson's disease?   Did you respond to treatment?  I hope you are feeling better.

I had my gene testing done  in Dec of 2013 . There are more than 300 disease-causing mutations that  have been identified in the ATP7B gene and they are continually discovering new mutations .

 

Yes I have responded well to treatment . In addition to my meds I am on  a low copper diet and  drink only distilled water.

 

 

 

This is a link to the wilson disease association web site ,,, lots of great information

http://www.wilsonsdisease.org/

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I had my gene testing done  in Dec of 2013 . There are more than 300 disease-causing mutations that  have been identified in the ATP7B gene and they are continually discovering new mutations .

 

Yes I have responded well to treatment . In addition to my meds I am on  a low copper diet and  drink only distilled water.

 

 

 

This is a link to the wilson disease association web site ,,, lots of great information

http://www.wilsonsdisease.org/

 

Interesting.  Thank you

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