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AliB

Which Comes First - The Celiac Or The Diabetes?

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Although I think I may be Celiac, I was diagnosed as Diabetic 10 years ago. If my diagnosis of Celiac is right though, I actually think I may have been low-level Celiac all my life and the Diabetes has possibly developed as a result. The consensus seems to be that Diabetes is implicated in Celiac - yes, that may well be true - but which one comes first????

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I was celiac since childhood but not dianosed until 5 years ago at 45. For me the celiac came first, appearing as DH and ataxia and nerve issues in childhood. Diabetes was diagnosed 2 years ago but since I have such good blood sugar control, as in normal ranges - unless glutened, I consider myself prediabetic (if that).

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I was celiac since childhood but not diagnosed until 5 years ago at 45. For me the celiac came first, appearing as DH and ataxia and nerve issues in childhood. Diabetes was diagnosed 2 years ago but since I have such good blood sugar control, as in normal ranges - unless glutened, I consider myself prediabetic (if that).

That's interesting - I wonder if the Celiac doesn't actually pre-date the Diabetes in most or even all cases and ultimately contribute to it. Perhaps neither you nor I would be diabetic if the Celiac had been diagnosed and dealt with at a much earlier stage!

Whilst Diabetes is on the increase, so is food intolerance. Food is so mucked about with and polluted these days that even 'organic' food is still affected in some way or other - even from polluted rainfall or watering systems.

My Mum became Type 1 diabetic around the age of 17. She was anemic all her life without anyone ever investigating. She had me, then a stillborn, then 10 miscarriages. Nobody knew why she couldn't keep the fetuses. Perhaps it had more to do with Celiac than diabetes! She was not medically 'diagnosed' as a possible Celiac by a Consultant until about 3 months before she died. She may well have been Celiac nearly all her life without it being picked up.

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I was diagnosed as type 1 diabetic in 1986, and as celiac in 2000. Looking back, I can see symptoms which are explained by celiac long before the diabetes diagnosis. I had eczema as a child. I had gastric disorders beginning in my teens, and continuing until I went gluten-free at age 46. I do wonder if early recognition of celiac and the adoption of a gluten-free diet as a child might have avoided my becoming diabetic at age 31.

Since celiac disease is so often missed for years, it is hard to say which comes first. But there is definitely a statistical correlation: celiacs are more likely to develop type 1 diabetes, and type 1 diabetics are more likely to be diagnosed as celiac.

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I believe it all starts with gluten damage - and it doesn't have to be diagnosed celiac.

My son is gluten sensitive (with neuro symptoms that have almost all disappeared now, 2 years + on the diet). We have recently discovered that he has low functioning pancreas and some of liver enzymes are also low. As far as I can see from observing him and from results of blood tests, he was heading for diabetes.

Whether malabsorption or autoimmunity damages islets of Langerhans I can't say, although in my son it was probably malabsorption, as we haven't picked up any autoantibodies in him as yet.

I am hoping that by going gluten-free (and carb lite) we may have intercepted the diabetes, which we have in the family. I am not sure whether his pancreas/liver will be able to restore their function, but I am for now working on improving his nutrition the best I can hoping that maybe some improvement is possible. After all, if his neuro functions have improved, perhaps the rest will too.

For us it's a very strong incentive to stay gluten-free, although I have to say I feel like a wicked witch trying to explain this to anyone who has gut issues but refuses to believe that bread makes them ill.

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I have four boys. None of them were sick at all as kids. When my oldest at age 16 almost 17, all of a sudden over a period of a month was sick every day vomiting. He was also helping his uncle clean out an old house full of dust and stuff and my son being sick was him helping clean this house. When the vomiting started to burn his throat, (when I was told he had been sick every day for a month), we went to the ER to find his sugar level was 618 and was told then he had diabetes type 1. After several days in the hospital to bring his level down and learning what he needed to do daily, we started our lives with him and everyone learning how to help him if he needed it. This was in 2002. No one else in the family, either side has diabetes type 1.

In 2006, I ended up having a gall bladder attack, and learned through the scope and blood test that I had celiac. I did a lot of reading and came across this web site with many others and learned about celiac and diabetes type 1, that if you are diabetic chances are you may in fact be celiac. After urging doctors to check my son for celiac and they wouldn't, my son ended up in a diabetic coma with a level of 1661. I begged the hospital to check for celiac, still they wouldn't. His liver levels were high and they couldn't figure out why. 4 months after being released from the hospital I went with my son to the liver specialist, who happened to be in the same office as the gastroenteroligist, and asked again and even dragged the doctor I had into the room and asked for the blood test to check to see if he had celiac. I was told this will take about 2 weeks or so for results, 4 days later, the primary care physician, called and asked who ordered these tests. After explaining that I had, he said good thing you did because this came back as positive for celiac, no doubt.

I had no idea about celiac until I found out two years ago that I had it. If it wasn't for me knowing what celiac even was, because I had never heard of this until that time, my son may have not found out he has it. Two of the three boys have been checked. I had no symptoms of anything until I had a gall bladder attack. I try to educate people at work who complain about different symptoms and tell them to have their doctor check to see if it is celiac. More and more people are learning every day they may have this, but not enough people in the world even know what celiac even is.

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Hi;

I was wondering if someone who is more computer savvy than myself can add this info to the Diabetes and Celiac thread?

I have yet another Diabetes question: How could I be Prediabetic? and i do have Dibetes risk factors, if no one in my family had it?

My mother and my father side could be Celiac but no Diabetes. And if I become Diabetic would I be type 1 or 2 ? I am closer to 50 , I know that Peter was diagnose at 30 with type 1.

Any way I m curiose if Stevia is Gluten free I bought it from Whole Foods( sweetleaf)? Or do you recommend Stevia at all from a certain brand?

THNX

llamalady

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I believe it all starts with gluten damage - and it doesn't have to be diagnosed celiac.

I believe it starts with leaky gut .......from candida yeast.

The yeast infects a body system, and the body makes an antibody for it. In some of us the yeast antibody also responds to wheat gluten. So when these people eat glutenous grain, their guts fill with tissue transglutaminase, DQ monomers and zonulin. The resulting intestinal tissue attack is actually a normal type of attack. The body doesn't normally just attack foreign invaders. It normally attacks what it sees as infected tissue at the same time.

Restated, I believe the attack is triggered by yeast in the bloodstream, then manifests in the gut. The resulting zonulin then floods the blood with gluten where zonulin opens nerves to gluten attack. Some of the most vulnerable nerves are in organ transduction boundaries. Apparently the pancreas is chocked full of them.

..

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Is it as simples as they are both auto-immune diseases and diseases tend to occur in clusters in body systems? That is if you have one or the other you have an immune system issue and are likely to get the other - and other immune disorders such a thyroid disease - without a cause and effect relationship.

Alternatively, if the genetic part of celiac can be dormant and needs a trigger, perhaps diabetes can be that trigger is some people.

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Which type of diabetes? Type 1 is autoimmune and celiac disease is connected to almost every autoimmune disease. Type 2 is probably due to diet, eating too many refined carbohydrates which increases insulin production, then your muscles start to ignore the insulin because there is too much of it too much of the time (insulin resistance) and your blood sugar goes too high. Some drugs can cause type 2 diabetes too, like steroids (prednisone). Probably other causes too, but those are the ones I'm aware of.

Here's a good article about some of the various causes: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

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I believe the connection between Celiac and other autoimmune diseases is Leaky Gut. Since Celiac/gluten intolerance can potentially lead to the development of leaky gut the incidence of autoimmune disease would be higher for people with *any* condition which leads to increased intestinal permeability.

I dont believe that Celiac "itself" causes other autoimmune disease to develop....but rather the leaky gut which can be a result of damage to the intestinal lining. Another factor may be the overgrowth of yeast/bacteria in the gut which might also be seen more commonly in those with Celiac/gluten intolerance.

Those organisms can act as a "trigger" for the onset of Celiac Disease and they can also contribute to inflammation of the intestinal lining...which may result in leaky gut.

Leaky gut is considered to be the "gateway" for autoimmunity.

The concept of a leaky gut or as it is more properly called, increased intestinal permeability, is a very important one for understanding why autoimmune reactions occur.

The gut can be considered an area which is "outside" of the body and it contains various "foreign" elements such as bacteria and food proteins. It is critical that little if any of these foreign particles reach the circulatory systems(blood and lymph) because if they did they would cause major immune reactions.

The gut wall is normally impermeable to large molecules(ie intact folded proteins) and only when a food protein is broken down into amino acids can the molecules pass through the gut wall. However when the gut wall is damaged larger molecules such as intact food proteins and bacterial products can pass through and set off immune reactions.

In genetically susceptible people these foreign proteins can sometimes cause autoimmune reactions by either mimicking self proteins or mimicking viral agents which themselves mimic autoantigens. The bottom line is people with an autoimmune disease want to heal their intestinal wall such that it prevents the passage of foreign proteins.

Increased permeability of the small intestinal tract has been the focus of drug research looking to give pharmaceuticals greater access to the blood stream. However, as naturopaths have warned over the years, increased permeability can also allow larger macromolecules

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Now that's an interesting thought Rachel. What if the Cow's milk intolerance comes first and actually triggers the Celiac?

We know that many babies are intolerant of preparations containing cow's milk. Women who are breastfeeding are told to drink plenty of the stuff. It is widely recognised that a huge proportion of the population across the World is lactose intolerant, usually due to an enzyme insufficiency.

What if it is the lactose or even something else in the milk that is causing the leaky gut that is then allowing the pathogens through into the bloodstream to trigger all these other illnesses?

Interestingly, the Bible speaks of 'a land flowing with milk and honey'. If it was such a problem, why would it use those things as indicative of richness and plenty? Because back then cows were not used for milk production.

Cattle were traditionally beasts of burden. It is only comparatively recently that they have been used for milk. The milk alluded to in the Bible would have come from sheep or goats. It is a different consistency with much smaller fat molecules and is far easier to digest.

So not only are we being fed a product that is not very digestible, virtually everything dairy is made from the stuff. This world revolves around commercialism. Cows, of course, are far more commercially viable than sheep or goats. Not only that but they are also fed copious hormones and drugs to enhance milk production, given anti-biotic 'sweeties' as a matter of course and fed other animals in their cattle feed. The milk is highly processed and 'mucked about' with between the cow and the supermarket shelf.

The chances of the whole thing being down to milk is a very strong possibility. I bet those people who live till they are 130 don't drink or eat any dairy products made from cows milk!

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Which type of diabetes? Type 1 is autoimmune and celiac disease is connected to almost every autoimmune disease. Type 2 is probably due to diet, eating too many refined carbohydrates which increases insulin production, then your muscles start to ignore the insulin because there is too much of it too much of the time (insulin resistance) and your blood sugar goes too high. Some drugs can cause type 2 diabetes too, like steroids (prednisone). Probably other causes too, but those are the ones I'm aware of.

Here's a good article about some of the various causes: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

I am type 2, but I am also on insulin. Mine, as with a lot of people, came on gradually. I started years back with hypoglycemia then ended up with diabetes, diet controlled at first, then tablets, now insulin.

My Mum was type 1 from 16, my Dad type 2 from late 60's, his Mum was type 2 as is his older sister and younger brother. We obviously are a very susceptible family.

I have a theory, just a theory, that Type 1 and 2 are just different progressions of the same disease. They are probably both triggered, again by leaky gut - type 1 just being a much faster onset. Undoubtedly the commonly high carb consumption in our 'Western' diet also contributes and constantly leaves the poor beleaguered Pancreas struggling.

The leaky gut allows sugars to uncontrollably flood the bloodstream. The Pancreas goes into overdrive to try and compensate - with some it will give out rapidly, with others it may take a lot longer - it could all be dependant upon the degree of permeability of the gut.

Imvrbaby was saying about her young son and his diabetic experience that his blood sugar went up to well over 1600 - maybe his gut was so permeable that the Pancreas could not cope with the onslaught and just collapsed. If the degree of permeability is lower then the rate at which the Pancreatic output decreases is slower.

Perhaps the genetic factor that is the link is our inability to cope with lactose!

Now then, has anyone researched whether communities who don't consume cow's milk products actually get illnesses like Celiac and Diabetes? There are alleles that indicate Lactose intolerance - do those who suffer from it also have alleles to other diseases? There's a few subjects for some research students in there somewhere.................

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Now that's an interesting thought Rachel. What if the Cow's milk intolerance comes first and actually triggers the Celiac?

We know that many babies are intolerant of preparations containing cow's milk. Women who are breastfeeding are told to drink plenty of the stuff. It is widely recognised that a huge proportion of the population across the World is lactose intolerant, usually due to an enzyme insufficiency.

What if it is the lactose or even something else in the milk that is causing the leaky gut that is then allowing the pathogens through into the bloodstream to trigger all these other illnesses?

Interestingly, the Bible speaks of 'a land flowing with milk and honey'. If it was such a problem, why would it use those things as indicative of richness and plenty? Because back then cows were not used for milk production.

Cattle were traditionally beasts of burden. It is only comparatively recently that they have been used for milk. The milk alluded to in the Bible would have come from sheep or goats. It is a different consistency with much smaller fat molecules and is far easier to digest.

So not only are we being fed a product that is not very digestible, virtually everything dairy is made from the stuff. This world revolves around commercialism. Cows, of course, are far more commercially viable than sheep or goats. Not only that but they are also fed copious hormones and drugs to enhance milk production, given anti-biotic 'sweeties' as a matter of course and fed other animals in their cattle feed. The milk is highly processed and 'mucked about' with between the cow and the supermarket shelf.

The chances of the whole thing being down to milk is a very strong possibility. I bet those people who live till they are 130 don't drink or eat any dairy products made from cows milk!

This is a fascinating thread to me since my mom, myself and my 7 year old son all have type 1 diabetes. My mom, sister and I all have celiac. Son does not yet.

I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes within 3 months of going gluten free. So, good question, which came first, the diabetes or celiac? For my specific situation, I knew I was at extremely high risk for type 1 diabetes (I was in a research study and monitored very closely for 3 years.) I think that by going gluten-free, my intestines healed enough to absorb the carbs I was eating, and at the same time my autoimmune system completely malfunctioned!!

I am particularly interested in food eaten in Biblical times and also interested in the research regarding cow's milk versus goat's and sheep's milk. Does anyone have any books/resources to recommend? I would love to do research more about the old testament laws about food as well as other biblical "nutrition" issues (including the new testament) and compare that to where we have evolved today. It looks like some others here have researched more than I have and I'd love your recommendations. :)

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Now that's an interesting thought Rachel. What if the Cow's milk intolerance comes first and actually triggers the Celiac?

I think there are many possibilites as far as triggers for Celiac. Personally, I believe that Candida Albicans might be a more likely trigger. The amino acid sequence found in the cell wall of candida is identical to the gliadin amino acid sequence that triggers the immune response in celiac disease.

http://www.celiac.com/articles/695/1/Does-...ease/Page1.html

Candida is a normal part of the intestinal environment and its also an opportunistic yeast....which means that any time that the immune system may be under stress candida may "try" to proliferate. This would especially be possible when we are taking antibiotics or other drugs which may alter the intestinal environment allowing for yeast to overgrow. Celiac is triggered when the body is under stress....which would indicate that *something* happens while the immune system is weakened which then triggers the disease.

Also, if a person is very reactive to cows milk and this is causing inflammation....there may be a yeast problem developing as a result of that. I'm not sure about cows milk itself triggering Celiac....but it can definately set the stage. I see candida as a more likely culprit since the immune system may be reacting to gluten in the same exact way that it would launch an attack on a pathogenic yeast which is attempting to proliferate and invade the intestinal lining. They may appear identical to the immune system. Candida is the only thing found to have the same amino acid sequence as gliadin.

What if it is the lactose or even something else in the milk that is causing the leaky gut that is then allowing the pathogens through into the bloodstream to trigger all these other illnesses?

There are so many causes of leaky gut...lactose intolerance is just one of many. Also, humans have been drinking milk for a very long time...whereas "leaky gut" is more of a modern condition. Leaky gut is extremely common now and probably the main factor in the rise of autoimmune conditions. There was a time when the gut was not so easily damaged...but we are in a different time now.

Leaky Gut Syndrome is reaching epidemic proportions within the population. Historically, the only way bowel toxins entered the blood stream was through trauma, for example by sword or spear.

This quickly led to septicemia that might be treatable, or more probably, ended in death. Outside of trauma, the body maintained a wonderfully effective selective barrier in the small intestine, one that allowed nutrients to enter, but kept out metabolic wastes and microbial toxins rampant in the intestines.

What Modern Event Allowed Such A Break-Down?

Primarily it has been antibiotics, secondarily non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs, Motrin, Aleve and Advil) with NSAIDs being the major cause of leaky gut because they so viciously inflame the intestinal lining, causing a widening of the spaces between cells and sometimes hemorrhaging.

Other common causes are chemotherapy, ingested alcohol, inhaled formaldehyde from a new carpet, food allergens, stress emotions, lactase deficiency, gluten/gliaden allergy, abnormal gut flora (bacteria, parasites, yeasts).

The first antibiotic, penicillin, did not enter mainstream health care until 1939. Since the 50s and 60s, antibiotic use has been frantically prescribed for every infection and inflammation, particularly pediatric ear infection, bronchitis, and sore throat.

It is sadly ironic that most of these infections are viral in nature, and not only are the antibiotics damaging, but they are ultimately unnecessary. Antibiotics should be considered a hospitalization level medicine, when bacteria have entered the blood, bone, or organ.

Food dyes are also very damaging to the intestinal lining....along with so many other chemicals which we are exposed to. Also, even without prescription antibiotic treatments we're still getting plenty from dairy products, meat, farmed fish, eggs, etc. It all has an effect on the gut ecology.

I actually did not take antibiotics or other drugs since I was "healthy" for most of my life. However, I drank a TON of milk and loaded up on dairy products as well as meat and eggs...none of which were free of antibiotic/hormones.

During my healthy years I can say for certain that I was "addicted" to milk. Its the only food I can say for sure I must have had some problem with even though no symptoms were present. I would actually get very anxious and stressed if we were out of milk at dinnertime. My craving for milk was very strong and still is even though I'm not drinking it.

I dont have Diabetes but I did develop Graves Disease. I believe that my gut was probably leaky for some time before things really went downhill. I also took alot of antibiotics AFTER I became sick....which only served to worsen my condition.

Last year one of my Dr.'s told me about the studies linking cow's milk to Type 1 diabetes.....he explained to me how they believe the autoimmune process begins. I had to search out my post on this but here is what he told me.

I tested real bad for cow dairy and this Dr. is very anti-dairy anyway....he said its an unnatural food for us...most people have trouble it...we're the only ones drinking milk outside of our own species, etc. etc.

He said we dont always feel the symptoms but our immune systems can be agitated and there can also be autoimmune stuff that develops.

Then he talked about the autoimmune stuff...why does our own body begin to attack its own tissue, etc.

He said theres an increasing understanding that the immune reaction begins as a legitimate response to something that is bad for us.

It was just published last year that studies showed that milk is a cause for Type 1 Diabetes.... antibodies are developed which then destroy the pancreas.

The antibodies destroying the pancreas arose originally as a reaction to milk. A low level allergic reaction was formed against the whey or casein in the milk.

Then there is the "antigen" (casein) and there is also the antibody which the immune system is producing against it. Those two things together form a unit which is called "antigen antibody complex".

That complex is floating around in the body and then the immune system sees *that* as another foreign thing and then makes another antibody against that.

Now the immune system is also attacking the "antigen antibody complex" but that complex happens to look just like the islet cells of the pancreas. So then the immune system goes and attacks those cells in the pancreas....destroying them.

So he said the antibodies formed against my thyroid may very well have originated as a legitimate immune response to some toxin, infection, vaccine....something like that.

Here is more info. from an article...

Scientists do not understand the link between cow's milk and diabetes. They know, however, that beta-lactoglobulin, a protein present in cow's milk but not found in human breast-milk, is structurally similar to the human protein glycodelin, which controls the production of T-cells. T-cells help guard the body against infection.

Goldfarb describes research on patients with Type-1 diabetes, which suggests that an infant's immature immune system may inadvertently destroy glycodelin in an effort to destroy the similar cow's milk protein, which the system recognizes as foreign. This could result in the overproduction of T-cells, which can attack the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas and trigger diabetes, she says.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80505093047.htm

Again, I believe that its increased permeability which allows for antigens (such as casein) to leave the gut and provoke an immune response.

While past work has been mainly focused on understanding the immunological consequences of the interplay between predisposing genes and antigens driving the autoimmune response, little is known about how these antigens reach the immune system.

The gastrointestinal tract is likely the main system through which nonself antigens gain access.

This theory is supported by studies outlining the central role of the gut-associated lymphoid tissue (GALT) in the pathogenesis of type 1 diabetes and by clinical evidence suggesting that individuals affected by various autoimmune diseases, including type 1 diabetes, have an aberrant increase in intestinal permeability. Increased permeability precedes the onset of autoimmune diabetes in BioBreeding diabetic prone (BBDP) rats and has been described in humans with type 1 diabetes.

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This is a fascinating thread to me since my mom, myself and my 7 year old son all have type 1 diabetes. My mom, sister and I all have celiac. Son does not yet.

I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes within 3 months of going gluten free. So, good question, which came first, the diabetes or celiac? For my specific situation, I knew I was at extremely high risk for type 1 diabetes (I was in a research study and monitored very closely for 3 years.) I think that by going gluten-free, my intestines healed enough to absorb the carbs I was eating, and at the same time my autoimmune system completely malfunctioned!!

I am particularly interested in food eaten in Biblical times and also interested in the research regarding cow's milk versus goat's and sheep's milk. Does anyone have any books/resources to recommend? I would love to do research more about the old testament laws about food as well as other biblical "nutrition" issues (including the new testament) and compare that to where we have evolved today. It looks like some others here have researched more than I have and I'd love your recommendations. :)

Rachel who has posted the previous post is a big promoter of the Candida problem and I do agree with her. I do think that Candida precipitates the leaky gut and that in turn is triggered by something, possibly lactose intolerance. So many lack the necessary enzymes to digest it that it is more than a co-incidence that these so-called 'auto-immune' diseases are on such an increase.

The only research I have done on the cow's milk versus goat's milk thing is via the internet but there is a wealth of information out there. I am a Bible Student as such and my knowledge of the Bible has brought me to the understanding that sheep and goats were the predominant sources of milk and milk products back then.

Interestingly, I had read on the internet recently that wheat has changed over the last few centuries and the gluten protein has modified from a simple protein into a complex one. Having said that, after just having read Dr Peter Green's book 'Celiac Disease, the hidden epidemic', I am sure I read in there somewhere that ancient wheat contained NO gluten at all! If that is the case then it is not surprising that it has developed into such a problem for us in recent times.

After all, although the Bible speaks of bread - we don't know what form the grain took. It could be yeasted and/or flat. Apparently wheat and barley were the main grains - wheat being more expensive. No doubt though the bread we eat today is vastly and incomparably different to what was eaten back then. Unfortunately there is no-one alive now who could tell us!

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    Oh yes, it could, although to be honest I never got myself so wet with sweat that it would have been a serious situation.  However, I can remember one time when I got caught in a cloudburst while going to my car in a large parking lot, though, and got soaked to the skin, and of course had to wear those soaking-wet clothes while I drove the 45 minutes it took me to get home --- I will NEVER forgot the misery and agony of that drive!  I could just barely keep the car under control, in fact.
    Thanks for your response, Squirmingitch, but I have to almost laugh, as at this point I am not really stressing over these questions at all --- just curious.  I have always been an insatiable question-asker, so please don't take my frequent questions as a sign of my obsessing over celiac disease or DH.  Yeah, admittedly I was rather stressed out for a couple of days two weeks  ago or so, but I am significantly settled down now, even while negotiating the nutritional maze of trying to manage two
Water?! That's… unreasonably inconvenient. Did it happen with sweat?
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