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DingoGirl

Dog's Been Limping For Three Weeks - Getting Worse

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Hey all,

My Annie injured herself on one of our orchard walks almost three weeks ago. After one of her mad dashes after a squirrel, she came toward me limping and hobbling, and licking the mud off her front paw. I waited a couple of days to see if there was improvement. While feeling around the injury and above the arm, I found two lumps - one quite large and one small, and took her to the vet the next day.

So....he looked at her paw and said it was "nothing," but said the lumps had to be removed immediately - despite my asking for aspiration or biopsy of the lumps, which he said he couldn't do (that's a whole OTHER story :angry: ), and so we had a $675 surgery. :( To remove LIPOMAS - totally harmless and benign.

So....I'm not exactly flush with money to get xrays for her, but this is getting worse, despite more than two weeks of no walks......I can't stand to see her in pain. :( BTW her stitches were removed last Friday, and the wound has partially split open - I am tending it and it's healing, thank God - so she's really been off her feet, and she is sick of it. We finally walked today, and she was in obvious extraordinary pain.

I probably will have to go for the xray now, but I'm wondering - what will the treatment be for a fracture or a strainsprain? Is there anything I can just do on my own for her paw?

THANKS!

p.s. I started selling some possessions on ebay yesterday, and SHAMELESSLY have used the dogs as models in the photos!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

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I started my custom breyer collection because of someone needing the money for a vet bill for her cat. She had a picture of him too. I know I bid a little higher and bought more so I could contribute to helping her out. Don't have any money to do that now. Hope all goes well with your sales.


Andrea

Enterolab positive results only June 06:
Me HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0301; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2, 7)
Husband HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0302; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2,8)



The whole family has been soy free since February, gluten free since June 2006.

The whole family went back to a gluten diet October 2011.  We never had official testing done and I decided to give gluten a go again.  At this point I've decided to work on making some gluten free things again, though healthwise everyone seems to be fine.  The decision to add gluten back in was also made based on other things I'd read about the 2nd sequence of genes.  It is my belief that we had a gluten intolerance, but thanks to things I've learned here, I know more what to keep an eye on.  If you have a confirmed case of celiac, please don't go back to gluten, it's a lifelong lifestyle change.

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aww, what a sweetie you are Andrea. :)

We need someone with a heart like yours with TONS AND TONS of money, who will bid thousands of dollars for my paltry little items. :lol:

OH! I've got it - - we send the ebay links to Ellen DeGeneres, I am sure she can use a vintage, dainty Ferragamo purse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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Umm so let me get this right...a dog is brought in for an injury..and the vet removes lumps on an injured leg ?????? :blink:

Okay my hubby the vet never would have gone that route in a million years.

Several reasons -

1) a ligament or tendon injury would not have been immediately apparent

2) they would have to manipulate the leg to shave the area for surgery and then the obvious trauma from surgery :(

3) this would result in aggravation of any injury that was there but was not apparent :o

Another approach would have been complete exam of the leg, rest and antiinflammatories with a return visit for supportive bandage if lameness got worse.

A fracture results in the animal being unable to bear weight at all and this is apparent day 1 of injury. If it is a "crack" then the worst days woud be the first week and gradual improvement with rest and anti inflammatories

A sprain /ligament injury may not seem bad the first 24 hours but will result in "flare ups" after exercise. As in : the dog starts off on a walk with a mild limp and progresses to carrying the limb near the end. A "crack" could also look like this.

For either case - support of the limb with a splint or padded bandage will provide support while the leg heals....

BUT....guess what?...they now have healing surgical site that can get infected if covered by a bandage or splint. The lack of air circualtion and oozing that accompanies surgical sites... means that covering the would set you up for complications....which is why they should not have done an elective surgery on an injured limb. [iMHO without me seeing the dog].

My question is: Is the leg getting worse because of an undiagnosed injury? Or is the lameness due to infection invading the delicate tendon / ligament sheath secondary to the surgery? It is not uncommon for site where lipomas are removed to heal slower. Also the lack of "extra skin" when closing a lump removal site on a limb means any movement (like walking) can put stress on the incision. Another reason we leave benign lumps alone on limbs. Lumps are removed only if they are thought to be malignant ( we can do needle biopsy), or if benign but unsightly and/or interfering with normal movement (armpit lipomas interfere with gait and grooming)...

You know what? He said it was nothing when he examined the dog initially....itl'l make him look pretty stupid if suddenly he says xrays are needed. Look at him puzzled and say " Why didnt you xray him the first day or when he was under anesthesia?" I would have the dog re-examined if you are worried - maybe by another vet??? Dont feel pressure to xray.. ask if it is an option to provide a splint / supportive bandage as long as the surgery site is cleaned daily and allowed to "breathe" BTW what did the vet say last Friday when stitches were removed and she was still lame??

IMHO I am suspicious the lameness is related to the surgery...either 1) it is the sole cause of the pain you see now 2) the initial injury was made worse by doing surgery on an acutely injured limb.

GRR

Sandy / vet tech


Sandy

Type 1 diabetes - 1986

hypothyroid -1993

pernicious anemia

premature atrial beats

neuropathy

retinopathy

daughter is: age 15

central hypotonia and developmental delay

balance issues (rides an adult 3 wheel bike)

hypothyroid 1996

dermatographia - a form of angioedema 2002

celiac 2004 - by endoscopy

diagnosed Aspergers at age 7 - responded very well (HUGE difference) to gluten-free diet

recovered from Kawasaki (2003)

lactose intolerant - figured out in Oct/06

Gilberts syndrome (April/07)

allergy to stinging insects

scoliosis Jan 2008

nightshade intolerance - figured out April 2008

allergy to Sulfa antibiotics

son is 13

type 1 diabetic - 2003 diagnosed on his 9th birthday

celiac - 2004 by endoscopy

lactose intolerant - figured out Nov/06

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HI sandy - - - as always, you give MUCH MUCH better counsel than my vet..................... :)

I should have clarified where the lumps were - one was right in the armpit of the limping leg, that was the larger one - the other, like a small marble, was closer toward her rib cage. BUT - she's been licking her PAW the whole time - and this pain came on VERY abruptly - I am pretty sure she fell in the orchard whilst running and did something to her paw then? but now, WHO KNOWS......that large limpoma was in her armpit......... :huh:

I DO have to get a new vet. This will be my third one since moving back to town - we had teh most wonderful vet all those years in Monterey and haven't found a great one here yet. :angry: Well.....I shouldn't say that - we did find a good one here, but she was outrageously expensive - thought I'd save money by going to this other guy, but he is quite money-hungry. BTW he is my parents' veterinarian, and they are stuck with him as my stepfather is this man's realtor - for his multi-million dollar land deals. :angry: But even they have said they'll only go to him for meds and small things now - not surgeries or anything major.

*sigh*

I guess we will have to go for xrays................


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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BTW he is my parents' veterinarian, and they are stuck with him as my stepfather is this man's realtor - for his multi-million dollar land deals.

did your parents decide to see a vet instead of a people doctor? :lol::P:lol:

Okay - lame joke but had to get some humour goin!

Could she have a foreign body in her paw that is festering? a piece of nettle or small splinter of wood? Sometimes all you will see is a slightly swollen area on the pad or between the pads that is tender.. Try soaking the paw in epsom salts and warm water.

OKay an armpit lipoma needs to come out at some point - I still disagree with the timing of it - it could have waited while they saw what evolved with the injured leg.

If a toe or one bone in the foot is broken - a supportive bandage (conservative care) is often all that is needed - this is because the bones of the foot act as a splint for each other when one is broken...... 2 or more - well then she would have been lame from the start.

A dog can break a toe - sounds simple - except of the damaged bone can lose its blood supply - then it gets infected (toe will be swollen and red)...at that point, unfortunately - amputation of the toe is usually needed ( worst case scenario)

...

more stuff to think about...wish you lived in Alberta.... we would see you :)

Sandy


Sandy

Type 1 diabetes - 1986

hypothyroid -1993

pernicious anemia

premature atrial beats

neuropathy

retinopathy

daughter is: age 15

central hypotonia and developmental delay

balance issues (rides an adult 3 wheel bike)

hypothyroid 1996

dermatographia - a form of angioedema 2002

celiac 2004 - by endoscopy

diagnosed Aspergers at age 7 - responded very well (HUGE difference) to gluten-free diet

recovered from Kawasaki (2003)

lactose intolerant - figured out in Oct/06

Gilberts syndrome (April/07)

allergy to stinging insects

scoliosis Jan 2008

nightshade intolerance - figured out April 2008

allergy to Sulfa antibiotics

son is 13

type 1 diabetic - 2003 diagnosed on his 9th birthday

celiac - 2004 by endoscopy

lactose intolerant - figured out Nov/06

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How's she doing???????


***************************

Beverly

Gluten free since 2005

In the midst of winter, I found there was within me an invincible summer.

Albert Careb

36_35_6[1].gif

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Yes...How's she doing?!


Emily

diagnosed type one diabetic 1973

diagnosed celiac winter 2005

diagnosed hypothyroid spring 2006

But healthy and happy! 253.gif

11 year-old Son had negative blood panel, but went on gluten-free diet of his own volition to see if his concentration would improve, his temper abate, and his energy level would increase. Miraculous response!

The great are great only because we are on our knees.

--Pierre Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865)

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The poor thing :(

I didn't realize she was still in pain...

Susie? How's she doing now--did you take her back in?


Patti

"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans"

"When people show you who they are, believe them"--Maya Angelou

"Bloom where you are planted"--Bev

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Oh I am remiss in updating! so sorry! :ph34r:

Well, she's the same.....we went on a short orchard walk yesterday, and when she tried to run, she stopped and just limped/hobbled along. She was SERIOUSLY limping all the way home. :(

This afternoon, she is not limping nearly as badly.....but every time we try to walk, same thing happens. I have felt all over this paw, seems totally fine when I touch it - she doesn't even wince. But she still holds it up, as she does in my av photo (it's the cuuuuuuuuuutest thing!) in the house, keeps her weight off it when she's standing on all fours.

I just don't know what is wrong.....and I am afraid to put that much more money on my credit card for what will no doubt be an outrageous amount for xrays.

Sandy, what is it, about a three-day drive? I'll be there Friday.....get me in!!!!!!! :lol:

p.s. good one about my parents seeing the vet instead of the regular doctor :lol:


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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This afternoon, she is not limping nearly as badly.....but every time we try to walk, same thing happens. I have felt all over this paw, seems totally fine when I touch it - she doesn't even wince. But she still holds it up, as she does in my av photo (it's the cuuuuuuuuuutest thing!) in the house, keeps her weight off it when she's standing on all fours.

I just don't know what is wrong.....and I am afraid to put that much more money on my credit card for what will no doubt be an outrageous amount for xrays.

Okay, so I'm sure it's not the same thing at all, but my first dog Coco did this. I came home one day and she had one paw (back though) up. I did the same thing...felt all around the paw and pads and found nothing, and she didn't seem to be bothered by it, but she wouldn't put her weight on it. It turned out to be the cruschia (sorry don't know how to spell that) ligament. I don't even know if they have that ligament in the front legs, lol.

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I tell you, I would practically be a millionaire if I didn't have dogs

:huh:

:lol:

Yep--dogs and kids! :lol:

Susie--Donna has a good point--the pain could be coming from up higher than her paw.


Patti

"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans"

"When people show you who they are, believe them"--Maya Angelou

"Bloom where you are planted"--Bev

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Patti - thanks! I missed Donna's post!!!!!! :o

Okay, so I'm sure it's not the same thing at all, but my first dog Coco did this. I came home one day and she had one paw (back though) up. I did the same thing...felt all around the paw and pads and found nothing, and she didn't seem to be bothered by it, but she wouldn't put her weight on it. It turned out to be the cruschia (sorry don't know how to spell that) ligament. I don't even know if they have that ligament in the front legs, lol.

HI DONNA!!!!!!!!! :)

Do you remember how long it lasted, and what the treatment was? I have also felt up her arm and no reaction. Sometimes, she licks the inside of her paw, but I've felt all over that and no reaction.

I'm flummoxed.....and broke.

:huh:


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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I'm sorry. :( Poor girl.

I know what you and Patti mean by being broke with pets and kids. I don't have pets anymore though, although I did have a dog I spent quite a bit of money on.......about 15 or so years ago.


Andrea

Enterolab positive results only June 06:
Me HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0301; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2, 7)
Husband HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0302; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2,8)



The whole family has been soy free since February, gluten free since June 2006.

The whole family went back to a gluten diet October 2011.  We never had official testing done and I decided to give gluten a go again.  At this point I've decided to work on making some gluten free things again, though healthwise everyone seems to be fine.  The decision to add gluten back in was also made based on other things I'd read about the 2nd sequence of genes.  It is my belief that we had a gluten intolerance, but thanks to things I've learned here, I know more what to keep an eye on.  If you have a confirmed case of celiac, please don't go back to gluten, it's a lifelong lifestyle change.

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HI DONNA!!!!!!!!! :)

Do you remember how long it lasted, and what the treatment was? I have also felt up her arm and no reaction. Sometimes, she licks the inside of her paw, but I've felt all over that and no reaction.

I'm flummoxed.....and broke.

Hey SusieQ!!! The ligament didn't hold the knee cap in place so there was movement which is what caused the pain (but touching it didn't cause pain). She actually had this in both of her hind legs. I don't believe it goes away on its own (at least that is what I was told at the time), and the only treatment at the time was surgery. The surgery was going to be over $1,000 (this was approximately 6 years ago so the cost may have gone up) for ONE leg. The recovery time was estimated to be 3 months for each leg.

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The cruciate ligament is in the knee joint of the hind leg...nothing like that in front leg.

The way to examine a leg - is exactly as you have done. Start at the paw and flex it / extend it...watchiing for any discomfort. Do the same at the elbow joint and be careful with that area since she just had armpit surgery.. an idea is to roll her on her back or side ..extend the leg forward and back in a walking motion while looking att he armpit area - does the skin stretch too tight where she had surgery? Does it seem painful there?

Wish I was closer and i could help tell if the lameness is due to upper leg or lower leg pain - its all in the way they limp that can give subtle clues. From your description - it does sound like lower leg /paw. She could have overextended the foot - thus "spraining" it in the initial injury (it stretches the flexors too much and hurts them). I am suspicious of ligament or tendon strain (which wont show up on xray) becasue she gets worse as she uses it. You can use a tensor bandage on her foot and cover it with a sock for walks....helps in the same way that humans use it - to support a sprained foot ......oh yeah.....please do take sock and support off when you are not around...dogs like to eat socks and you dont need an exploratory surgery on her for a sock! :o

Sandy

PS - check her nails / base of the nails too ..sometimes they catch a toenail when they have tripped or whatever - an injured toenail is painful! Esp if you have to walk on it.

Either way - soaking the foot in warm water and epsom salts plus support bandage will do no harm and if it helps - then you have saved $$ in vet bills


Sandy

Type 1 diabetes - 1986

hypothyroid -1993

pernicious anemia

premature atrial beats

neuropathy

retinopathy

daughter is: age 15

central hypotonia and developmental delay

balance issues (rides an adult 3 wheel bike)

hypothyroid 1996

dermatographia - a form of angioedema 2002

celiac 2004 - by endoscopy

diagnosed Aspergers at age 7 - responded very well (HUGE difference) to gluten-free diet

recovered from Kawasaki (2003)

lactose intolerant - figured out in Oct/06

Gilberts syndrome (April/07)

allergy to stinging insects

scoliosis Jan 2008

nightshade intolerance - figured out April 2008

allergy to Sulfa antibiotics

son is 13

type 1 diabetic - 2003 diagnosed on his 9th birthday

celiac - 2004 by endoscopy

lactose intolerant - figured out Nov/06

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Just catching this thread. I have a soft spot for dogs - have a few :D - I am a registered breeder.Anyway - its a crime what that vet did to you. Its terrible when you don't have a vet you can trust. Mine is great - and has saved me heaps over the years. Sandy's advise sounds exactly right. Xrays don't always show these injuries anyway so don't rush into those automatically. One thing I have noticed and can add... DON'T FREE RUN the dog. Restricted short walks on a lead only for loo breaks. Confine to a crate if you aren't home. If its ligaments then they have to heal and not be inflamed or stretched. Swimming could be good later. I imagine if its a fracture the dog would be in much more pain (?) so I am suspecting ligaments myself. I have healed horses with torn ligaments and its possible - but lots of home nursing may be needed now.


Diagnosed May 2006 - Hashimotos Thyroid after being diagnosed in 1977 and told it didn't matter.

Diagnosed June 2006 with adrenal insufficiency.

Diagnosed June 2006 as Gluten Intolerant after I failed the Challenge Diet. Negative blood test.No biopsy.

Diagnosed June 2006 as B12 low. Needed weekly injections for a year.Still have them every 2 weeks.

Trialled Dairy Free Diet and reacted positively to that challenge in January 07.

News Flash! Coeliac Genetic Testing done April 08 . DQ2 Positive !

Diagnosed July 2010 FODMAP. Limits on Fructose, lactose, polyols, fructans. NO ONION! But I can have hard cheese, butter and cream again!!!

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Oh THANKS you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Wow Georgie - you are fortunate to have such a wonderful vet, who has SAVED you money?? seems unheard of in this town.... :angry: Those I"ve encountered seem quite money-hungry or inept here. Oh, the FIRST one I went to when I moved back? Said that dogs "never" need anal-gland expressions. Right. Stinker needs them every few months, or just goes psychotic. So.....he sent me out of the room, said he did it....and you know what? I was POSITIVE he didn't do it - - there was no tell-tale STENCH in teh car ride home, and she STILL scooted her butt......so we went to another vet. harrumph! :angry:

Sandy....I will try to wrap what I have come to conclude, thanks to all the helpful advice on this thread, is a strain of the ligament or tendon. Um, that should be interesting......she will rip that thing off as soon as it's on, I'm pretty sure. :lol: I have truly scrutinized the whole paw, nails, felt the whole arm, everything....she sometimes licks the inner part of the paw, and that is where I think she sprained it. and the poor thing has just lost most of hte nail on her OTHER front paw, the nail by itself - is that a dewclaw? :o So she was licking that one a lot also.....but it looks okay now.

They are miserable without their walks, as am I. :( Good gawd, I think we've had two walks in three weeks.......but, my mistake has been letting her off leash, as we usually do, in the orchard the last time we went. Her limping is MUCH worse after these situations. So, no walks for a few days, and then just short ones, on leash...................

I will update in a few days....hope to God things improve!!!!! The dogs are going crazy with inactivity, like kids trapped inside on a rainy day! :lol:


SUSIE

Diagnosed January 2006

"I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells." ~Dr. Seuss

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Wow Georgie - you are fortunate to have such a wonderful vet, who has SAVED you money??

Absolutely as he knows what he hands around comes around. He is the BEST and people flock there. For eg - he can dx a lipoma from a nasty just by touch and gives the option to the client " I am 95% sure its harmless" to let you decide. He has dx rare eye infections immed when another vet had given me wrong stuff. Charges cost price for swabs etc. Is available for phone consults - free. Was able to do serious anal gland cancer surgery on my champion 13yo girl who had a heart problem. He guaranteed the anaesthetic as safe and the op gave her 2 years 2 months more quality time. Sends repeat scripts by post after a phone call. Just meds cost price - no consult price. Had a way of rx her antiduirectics ( only heart meds she had to 15 2 months ) that made them works for years. He does xrays for breeding scores - takes 6 and charges you for 2. Do I need say more ?

Ligaments take a long time to heal. 6 - 8 weeks for my horses then its slow physio for months. Have you researched prolotherapy ? It works for animals like humans and it sure worked for me!


Diagnosed May 2006 - Hashimotos Thyroid after being diagnosed in 1977 and told it didn't matter.

Diagnosed June 2006 with adrenal insufficiency.

Diagnosed June 2006 as Gluten Intolerant after I failed the Challenge Diet. Negative blood test.No biopsy.

Diagnosed June 2006 as B12 low. Needed weekly injections for a year.Still have them every 2 weeks.

Trialled Dairy Free Diet and reacted positively to that challenge in January 07.

News Flash! Coeliac Genetic Testing done April 08 . DQ2 Positive !

Diagnosed July 2010 FODMAP. Limits on Fructose, lactose, polyols, fructans. NO ONION! But I can have hard cheese, butter and cream again!!!

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Just wanted to say so sorry to hear of this, a big ouch, wishes for a speedy recovery. :wub:


A family with Celiac disease, two brothers and two sisters.

Lyme Disease, Diagnosis October 19, 2006

May 2006 - December 2008 Gluten and Dairy Free

December 2008, while seeing improvement on the gluten free diet, I did not recover and so in December of 2008 began the SCD and now have hope for recovery.

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