Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[AliB]

I agree. I think that a lot of people out there have a lot of good information, but not all of them have all the answers.

At the end of the day, Bee is just relaying what worked for her. It may well work for others - if you are only dealing with Candida or similar pathogens, but some of us may need a more broader-pronged approach.

However, she does list a lot of very interesting stuff and quite a lot of it is very useful perhaps as support to the SCD, in the form of antifungals etc.

I thought her page on Diabetes was interesting too, that Diabetics have difficulty getting enough magnesium into the cells. Fatigue is certainly my worst issue and that could explain why in my case it is not returning as I feel it should be by now.

[kkcarlton]

AliB, Dawn - Bee has articles on adrenal fatigue but I don't think she addresses it enough. And she claims that her diet will heal ANY illness, not just candida. When I posted that her diet would not have cured my high iron levels she put me on moderation for a month and didn't let the post go through. She is very much against taking amino acids but without them my depression is awful and I can't sleep. If you don't get adequate sleep it's really hard on your adrenals so it's a vicious cycle.

AliB - have you had your adrenals checked? Could that be causing your fatigue?

I've got a nasty stomach bug. My husband had it two days ago and now me. I'm getting my cleanse without trying!

[AliB]

Oh Kristina, sorry about the stomach thing, that's a bummer (sorry!). Who would think that we would be appraising the advantages of a stomach upset!?

You may well be right about my adrenals - they are better than they were but when I first had the digestive collapse and figured out where the adrenals are when I reached round and touched the right one I nearly hit the ceiling.

They are better - still a bit sore, but nothing like they were. It just indicates that there is still inflammation going on somewhere. I am loathe to add any more drugs into the mix and would rather deal with it the gentle way if I can.

They have to be sore for a reason, and I feel that if I take any drugs it will just be masking the real problem. It must be an indication that they are under stress and I don't want to make it any worse.

It is possible that they are inflamed because of my weak digestion. It will be interesting to see whether there is any improvement now I have started the Betaine.

I don't get enough sleep - although I am now sleeping better I just seem incapable of going to bed early enough. It is now after 1am here and again I am still in front of the PC. Stupid woman, or what! Every day I tell myself I need to go to bed earlier and every night I don't. Duh!

[kkcarlton]

Alib - are you in the uk or germany?

the bug got worse. i couldn't even keep water down. my husband is a firefighter an was taking one of the trucks to get refueled with one of the paramedics. apparently they've been giving people IVs with zophran. i'm a wimp. in the past i would have just dealt with it and let it run its course but the last 1 1/2 years have been so rough with daily pain and all the other stuff going on that i agreed to the iv. they even came by the house to put it in so here i am in bed with a saline drip and typing with one hand. lol

the adrenals are so important and it's a vicious cycle. if they are not functioning properly digestion is impaired and vice versa. but I don't blame you for wanting to stay off meds. What about something like natural progesterone cream?

[DMarie]

I don't get enough sleep - although I am now sleeping better I just seem incapable of going to bed early enough. It is now after 1am here and again I am still in front of the PC. Stupid woman, or what! Every day I tell myself I need to go to bed earlier and every night I don't. Duh!

Ali - I end up doing that during the few times my husband goes out of town. Then I am a zombie every day!!! And I think the same thing - I am not going to do that again - and then there I am late, late at night on the computer the next night! There is always so much to look at - it is easy to keep going until you are bleary eyed!

I agree. I think that a lot of people out there have a lot of good information, but not all of them have all the answers.

At the end of the day, Bee is just relaying what worked for her. It may well work for others - if you are only dealing with Candida or similar pathogens, but some of us may need a more broader-pronged approach.

I guess that is the point of the forums - we all share what we have learned and what works for us in the hopes that it will help someone else. Sometimes the same things work for another, sometimes it needs tweaking to work since we are all different (and yet the same in many ways). The support from each other is invaluable - even when we still haven't quite figured out our solution and are struggling. I so appreciate the time each of you take to share!

Kristina - I am sorry you are sick and I hope it passes quickly. Funny - but on the few occasions that I get really sick (can't keep food down, etc) - I don't end up with D like others do - I just end up having a normal movement for once! I had to chuckle when I read your comment about getting your "cleanse" without even trying!

[pele]

Does anybody if nitrates are allowed? I know they are not healthy but from an SCD standpoint, are they ok?

I have sugar free bacon but it has sodium phospahtes, sodium erythobate, and sodium nitrite.

If you get a chance, read In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan. He says something to the effect that if you don't keep a box of sodium erythobate in your cupboard to add to food, why on earth would you buy (and eat) something containing it? I think he makes a good point!

As far as being SCD legal, somehere Elaine said that most people cannot afford expensive, organic foods, and she would rather see people eat a few chemicals than eat starch.

[pele]

Kristina and Dawn

Thanks for the interesting discussion on hormones. There have been discussions about adrenals, thyroid, et al. on the related conditions section, but it's nicer to talk about these things with people we know.

I also felt I was on the verge of Addison's a year ago. I had bronze patches of abdominal skin, no energy, and couldn't even get mad. I had the saliva test and a 24 hour hormone output test and my levels of all hormones except thyroid, which I was taking, were off the charts low. I was very confused about treatments, having been disapointed by too many doctors who just want you in and out their office in 15 minutes with a prescription for the latest designer drug.

Anyway, I eventually found myself at a great website that explained everything I wanted to know, especially about treating adrenal fatigue. Here's the link. You can spend days reading this one.

stopthethyroidmadness.com

And don't forget that our good friend Vitamin D is a hormone.

[pele]

Scott replied on the Tech section to say that he can't add any more sections - he gets complaints that there are too many already! He also felt that the SCD is just one of many treatments. I wonder if we could get him to add something to the Section Title or description? Any ideas?

Ya know, it always occurs to me that we, as the SCD group, are not supporting Scott by buying prepackaged processed gluten-free goodies from the gluten-free mall. So I keep telling myself I am going to buy something else, vitamns or a t-shirt or a book, to show my support for celiac.com. And I'm gonna do it, too. I'll let ya'll know what I order.

[ShayFL]

I support Scott/gluten-free Mall. I buy Nomato from them ALL of the time. It is SCD legal and replaces tomato sauce. It is in a jar and not homemade, but nothing illegal in it. But as most of you know I dont have to be anal about SCD anyway. It really is the "starches" that do me in.

[DMarie]

Kristina and Dawn

Anyway, I eventually found myself at a great website that explained everything I wanted to know, especially about treating adrenal fatigue. Here's the link. You can spend days reading this one.

stopthethyroidmadness.com

And don't forget that our good friend Vitamin D is a hormone.

Pele - I love that site! In fact, that was where I got tipped off about adrenals and checking them. I got lucky and found a doctor (at that time) willing to read stuff and she gave me a trial run on Cortef. Thankfully I found another doctor who believes that there is gray area between healthy adrenals and Addison's and seemed much more comfortable with using Cortef - so I am able to get prescriptions for Cortef.

Did you end up doing something to support your adrenals?

I didn't realize Vitamin D was a hormone. Why is it considered a hormone? I know that my doctor tested my Vitamin D levels out of the blue over the summer - and they were low (so I am supplementing). I see her next week and am interested to see if the levels have come up any.

[kkcarlton]

Well, I feel like I went through a 24 hour bug in 10 hours. LOL I feel better this morning, not really any nausea, but very weak and dizzy when I stand too long. No wonder after a phlebotomy, throwing up, and then not being able to drink anything yesterday. My temp went up to 101.5 then slowly went back down. I slept horribly since I could not take my magnesium citrate and tryptophan last night. I am taking the day off. I work from home anyhow but there is no way I can sit at the computer for 5 hours today and try to concentrate. Hubby is in Nashville so I will take that opportunity to finally write my Christmas cards.

I love the thyroidmadness site and have looked around there quite a bit. Another good one is Open Original Shared Link. He has some great articles on adrenal fatigue, hormonal imbalance, and more. Right now I am trying to decide if I should go back on the Cortef although I would hate to keep changing my regiment. I think that may be what got me in this predicament to begin with. Maybe I need to be more patient. What's driving me nuts is that I don't know whether it's gut dysbiosis, hormonal imbalance, or something else causing the abdominal distention. The fact that it's 24/7 makes me think it's hormonal. I am not a patient person so that's really messing me up right now.

Bee has really good articles on her site and I think her supplement recommendations are outstanding. She recommends the basics like Omega 3, Vitamins C, D, E, and A and others. I do the recommended coffee enemas every 5 to 7 days and drink her electrolyte drink (6 oz water, juice of 1/2 lemon, 1/4 tsp sea salt). Actually, I am able to keep water down now and drank some of it this morning to get my electrolytes back up.

BTW the doctor I mentioned has a website. It is www.drplatt.com.

[AliB]

Kristina, I cant figure out how hormones would make stomach bloat. It has to be due to gases of some kind and that is what makes me more suspicious of yeasts or bacteria. Many of them produce gas as part of their digestive process and I would think it is more likely to be that than anything else.

Foods don't ferment under their own steam - it is all down to bacterial activity. Apparently it is reckoned that over 70% of the Western population has Candida overgrowth and I would imagine that to be a fair estimate based on my experience and my friends and families'. The Medical Fraternity just do not take it seriously - except when someone 'acquires' it after surgery. They just can't figure that it is already a problem for the individual long before that happens.

Surgery just knocks out what little people have left of their immune system function and hey presto! Candida takes over.

I was reading on the net somewhere of a lady (wish I had bookmarked it!) who did a radical Candida treatment and the stuff was just oozing out of everywhere as a white mucuous - her eyes, her nose, her ears, her mouth and all the other orifices! Yuk. Candida lives in the mucous - wherever there is mucous you will find it. Well, you can't find it because it is too small to see, but you know what i mean.

The spit test is a good indicator. I am sure that my body is battling the stuff and its by-products constantly. There is some improvement, but I still have a way to go.

I would be reluctant to try things like Cortef even if my Adrenals were registering low as hydrocortisone and other cortisone drugs are also implicated in Candida overgrowth. I know it is a natural substance, but under normal circumstances it is tightly controlled by the Adrenals. Like insulin, when given as an extra substance, the body doesn't know how to handle it properly.

I would rather concentrate on getting my body better then hopefully it would start to work properly.

I know that for some, they don't have the option - I am in the same boat having to take insulin - I would drop it tomorrow if I could as it just encourages the liver to make more glycogen, but until I can start to get things moving and working I am stuck with it.

Interesting page - selling a product which I am not necessarily interested in, but the info is useful.

Open Original Shared Link

[kkcarlton]

Hi Ali,

It is hard isn't it? And natural healing takes a while.

The reason I am wondering if my abdominal distention is due to hormonal imbalance is because that's what I used to get during PMS before the hysterectomy. Towards the end, before I had the surgery, I had 25 to 45 day cycles I think and always 12 to 14 days PMS. I had various symptoms that would come and go during the days of PMS but two symptoms always lasted the entire length of the PMS and those were abdominal distention and fluid retention. I would wake up one morning with a pregnant looking belly and all my clothes were too tight. It was so extreme that I had a second set of clothes two sizes bigger for just that time. then my period would start and it would go away and my stomach would go back to being flat until the next PMS. AFter the hyst the only thing that changed was no more bleeding and therefore no more pain/cramping. But I still had 24/7 abdominal distention and fluid retention 12 to 14 days every 25 to 45 days. Then I got on natural progesterone and eventually it stopped.

No doubt I have candida issues and bacterial overgrowth but it's hard to tell if that's the cause.

[Generic]

I have a question for you guys. I admit I haven't read through all 70 pages, forgive me..LOL.

My mom is following the SCD and can't find the farmer's cheese/ dry curd cottage cheese any where. She lives just South of Seattle. Does anyone have a source for it? She might be able to get the QFC to order it in for her. She would be willing to buy a case at a time etc. If you could pm with any ideas (I don't have the chance to get on here all the time) I would very greatful!

Thanks in advance.

[kschauer]

Hi everyone! Just checking in, I've been MIA for a while. I managed to stay on the diet while traveling to London (except for the homemade yogurt - I blew up my fancy new yogurt maker ). The Greek yogurt was a good substitute and I didn't have any reaction to it. Now I am back in Chile, making yogurt again and eating lots of soups and feeling good. The next traveling challenge - home for Christmas! We'll be going back and forth between Texas and FL and although my family is glad I'm feeling better and totally supportive and try to be understanding, they don't really get the whole cross contamination thing. And last Christmas I was just gluten free, so they keep suggesting all these gluten-free cookies and cakes that I was able to eat last year, and I have to explain I'm doing something different now. Slowly but surely...

So I am feeling better and I've lost weight - my chocolate cravings are gone which I find absolutely amazing. Before starting this diet I ate chocolate EVERYDAY. Yes really! Partly craving and partly stress/anxiety driven eating. My work is super stressful for me. Another thing that I think is related to the diet, I have a clogged pore on my side, I went to the doctor and he says, oh it's a cyst caused by a closed pore and we'll have to cut it out, it won't get better on its own. Now it's almost completely gone, that gives me hope that this is helping my body. How could it not? I am not eating anything that is even remotely bad for me. Everything is fresh and natural. I'm going to stick with it. I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread.

[pele]

I have a question for you guys. I admit I haven't read through all 70 pages, forgive me..LOL.

My mom is following the SCD and can't find the farmer's cheese/ dry curd cottage cheese any where. She lives just South of Seattle. Does anyone have a source for it? She might be able to get the QFC to order it in for her. She would be willing to buy a case at a time etc. If you could pm with any ideas (I don't have the chance to get on here all the time) I would very greatful!

Thanks in advance.

Sunshine Dairy sells it in the NW.

[pele]

Pele - I love that site! In fact, that was where I got tipped off about adrenals and checking them. I got lucky and found a doctor (at that time) willing to read stuff and she gave me a trial run on Cortef. Thankfully I found another doctor who believes that there is gray area between healthy adrenals and Addison's and seemed much more comfortable with using Cortef - so I am able to get prescriptions for Cortef.

Did you end up doing something to support your adrenals?

I'm pretty sure that site is where I read that the maximum amount of cortef that a person should use is 20 mg a day. My NP offered me 5-7.5 per day which I dithered over for months, then tried. Once I got on that and DHEA I had enough energy to make halfway through the day! As soon as the sun starts to climb I am going to taper off. I forget to take it a lot anyway, and do not notice a difference. Supposedly the adrenals begin to rebuild after 4-6 months. However, I read that a high dose (over 20) will shut them down completely.

[DMarie]

I'm pretty sure that site is where I read that the maximum amount of cortef that a person should use is 20 mg a day. My NP offered me 5-7.5 per day which I dithered over for months, then tried. Once I got on that and DHEA I had enough energy to make halfway through the day! As soon as the sun starts to climb I am going to taper off. I forget to take it a lot anyway, and do not notice a difference. Supposedly the adrenals begin to rebuild after 4-6 months. However, I read that a high dose (over 20) will shut them down completely.

Pele - I was poking around on STTM the other day - because I didn't remember what was said. I found this:

-----The suggested amount is approx. 20-30 mg of cortisol, and sometimes more due to some patients metabolizing cortisol faster than others, to bring sluggish adrenal function up to it

[mftnchn]

Hi, K! Glad for an update, and really glad you are improving on the SCD in spite of all the travel challenges!!!

If you can handle the ingredients, for dessert for holiday try an apple crisp. Do apples and your favorite spices plus honey for the bottom, and use the honey almond crisps (cookie recipe) from BTVC, just spread it over the top of your apples and bake. It is so wonderful that everyone will want it!

Sorry the family isn't getting the CC issues, that is hard. I'm glad they want to understand and are trying. Maybe put something in writing for them all??

[chatycady]

Dean's is a brand in the midwest and they offer dry curd cottage cheese. My local grocer gets if for me and I buy 4 at a time and freeze it.

[fig girl]

Hi everyone,

Hope you're all doing well. I just wanted to pop in and wish you guys a Merry Christmas! I've been MIA too with work and getting ready for the holidays. We're leaving tomorrow for Florida to visit hubby's Mom and Dad. It's a long ride but we're looking forward to the visit. We had my family over today and boy am I exhausted. It was a very nice day but i've been cooking and freezing food for me to bring to Florida on top of cooking and cleaning for today so i'm pooped! LOL. I hope i have enough food for our trip...i worry about being hungry and having nothing to eat. I'm bringing my 2 quart crock pot so i can always cook some chicken in there if i run out.

I'm feeling good and crossing my fingers i didn't accidentally gluten myself today. I was very careful so i don't think i did. I haven't tried any new SCD foods for the past 2 weeks since i've had so much to do and couldn't afford to feel bad. I'll try some new foods when we get back from our trip. Well, better hit the hay and get some rest. I hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas and is feeling well!

Michelle

[Guest Jsn7821]

I just had someone suggest a juicing recipe that had 1/2 of a sweet potato/yam in it. I first thought "I'll just leave that out" (no big deal) ... but now I am wondering if juicing it is OK? Does the juicer separate out the "bad" carbs in the pulp?

On a side note: I've been sticking to SCD for a while now and I have more consistent energy and mood than ever. But - the food bill is really biting me, eating all veggies / meats. Is SCD similar to gluten, where if I tried some I would immediately feel the effects, or is more long term? Would it negate the positive effects to just have rice or potatoes every once in a while (a smaller serving once a day)?

[AliB]

Elaine (Gottschall) listed the SCD foods as 'illegal' and 'legal' because she recognised that deviations from the diet would slow down or even halt the progress.

I have not been as disciplined with the diet as I would have wished and I know that it has slowed down the healing process.

I have to say that I have not found the diet to be much, if any, more expensive, because now, although I am buying more fruit and veg and stuff like almond meal (although I don't have that too often), I am not buying all the gluten-based, or even gluten-free stuff that I used to, and gluten-free stuff is pretty expensive anyway.

I don't buy a huge amount of meat per week. We often have one chicken which lasts for 2 meals - one roasted and the other chicken soup/stew. I buy some mackerel or salmon for a meal or some turkey mince. I may do an omelette with some mixed veg and ham for another meal. Perhaps I may do my husband a baked potato with some prawns (shrimp) and I will just have them with a mixed salad.

At the moment I don't cope very well with beef or pork so am tending generally to avoid them - although my daughter did us some pork chops last night and with a couple Betaine tablets I was ok with it.

I don't think you need to buy or eat a huge amount of meat. The SCD is NOT Atkins!!!

As far as the yam is concerned I would say that the carbs would be in the juice. What you get left with is just the fiber. Could you juice a squash instead? Summer and winter squashes are legal on SCD.

[AliB]

On another note I had a bit of a fright yesterday.

On going from having raging D with the IBS before going gluten-free and then SCD I am now going a bit the other way. I don't know why. I have been having the smoothies and thought that the extra fiber would get things moving - maybe I just am not having enough water with it - I don't know, but anyway, I got up yesterday morning to get ready to go out.

I went to the loo and did a BM (sorry if this is too much info but it is relevant!).

I went and woke my son who was supposed to be coming with me then as I felt a bit uncomfortable went back to the loo. Within a few minutes I felt sick and very light-headed, and had an awful colic pain come on right down in my lower abdomen.

I staggered out again and called my husband who was still asleep, but couldn't wake him so had to call my son to go and get him. When my son saw my white face he leapt out of bed and ran to get Terry up.

I had gone back to the loo again and the next thing I knew was that I was bent double with Terry banging me on the back to try and wake me. It was the first time in my life I have actually fainted! I knew I was going to go and could do nothing to stop it.

I was only out for about a minute or so but it frightened the life out of us all and Terry was just about the call an ambulance as it looked as if I was having a fit as I was jerking and snoring very loudly!

I don't know if it was the pain and shock or whether something in the colon had cut off the blood to my brain, or what. I spoke to the Doc who said that colic pain can do that. I used to get it a lot when I was younger, but never was dizzy or faint - just in an awful lot of pain.

When I came round I sat up and promptly threw up all down my nightie. I did eventually do more BM's and it all settled but it was very unnerving.

Quite what triggered it I don't know. I had had quite a bit of vit C over the previous days to boost my immune system and keep the horrible bug at bay that my husband and quite a lot of others around me have. I also took some magnesium for 2 or 3 days. And some Goldenseal and Echinacea.

I would be very happy to not ever have a repeat of that!

[mftnchn]

I just had someone suggest a juicing recipe that had 1/2 of a sweet potato/yam in it. I first thought "I'll just leave that out" (no big deal) ... but now I am wondering if juicing it is OK? Does the juicer separate out the "bad" carbs in the pulp?

On a side note: I've been sticking to SCD for a while now and I have more consistent energy and mood than ever. But - the food bill is really biting me, eating all veggies / meats. Is SCD similar to gluten, where if I tried some I would immediately feel the effects, or is more long term? Would it negate the positive effects to just have rice or potatoes every once in a while (a smaller serving once a day)?

My guess is this would be very individual. Elaine in BTVC and on her email posts would probably say that it would delay healing, and that it would be better to stick to the diet for 1 year beyond the resolution of symptoms. For me, I don't dare add in the carbs since I know that my body isn't digesting them. I'm still seeing a lot of cleansing effect and am not symptom free either. Actually am having more digestive symptoms but I see this as a sign of healing.

I think others have been able to stay on a modified SCD and do well.