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AliB

Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

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Well, unfortunately i did react to the beets and apple cider vinegar but the good news is my symptoms seem to be milder than they used to be. I had a little pain and gas before bed and felt a little bloated but not as bad as i have felt about a month ago when reacting to foods and the symptoms don't seem to last as long. So i was bummed because they were so good but I will try them again after a while. I think i will try steaming the beets and see how they do cooked and without the acv.

That's funny, I saw the thread about the burp test too about a week ago and tried it too! I didn't burp within 5 min. of drinking it either which it said if you don't then you don't produce enough acid and would need to supplement with betaine hcl. I think I burped about 15 - 20 min. after drinking it. So i probably would benefit with the beets and acv once i tolerate them or try supplementing with betaine hcl.

Too bad about the beets. :(

Thanks for the information about the burp test. I just don't do well with supplements so I think I will stick to the beets and vinegar for now, I am also drinking fresh ginger juice and tea which are supposed to help and with a little honey delicious.

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...and today I got an e mail from my dietitian .... she would not recommend doing the SDC or GAPS diets right now because it might be too complicated.

Say what??? This is the simplest diet! No complicated grainy foodlike substances to worry about. Just plain veggies, fruits, meats, eggs, nuts, honey, yogurt, cheese, oil and spices. What could be easier?

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Welcome GFLady and Mslee

If you haven't already found

breakingtheviciouscycle.info

you might check it out. It is the official website.

The first two weeks on the diet can be a difficult adjustment but stick it out and things will improve.

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Say what??? This is the simplest diet! No complicated grainy foodlike substances to worry about. Just plain veggies, fruits, meats, eggs, nuts, honey, yogurt, cheese, oil and spices. What could be easier?

I agree. Too complicated for who? What orientation does this dietitian have?

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I'm afraid I don't manage to keep up with the last weeks... Too much work and I still get tired too fast.

The good news is that I got the results of the urine test for HPU and my last stool test. No HPU, so I don't have to worry about that.

The stool still tells I don't digest fat properly and - quite strange - there was undigested starch although I don't eat starch! So I even don't digest the small amount of starch from nuts and the little veggies I take. The reason might be that the gut flora was nearly gone. There were still markers for inflammation, and although I didn't have any gluten for more than one year, still high tissue transglutaminase. But no candida!

I started taking high doses of bacteria around Xmas: Symbioflor 2 (which is e. coli) and probactiol (lactobacteria). Now I think I'm getting better. Just yesterday I managed to work all day for the first time without feeling ill half the time and without feeling like I'd faint the next moment every three hours!

Mia

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That's interesting Mia - your test showing undigested starch - I think (although I have not been tested) that may be my problem too - I still find nuts difficult to digest. I tend to have some in the evening and end up going to bed with my 'pounding' thing going on which is a sure sign of digestive distress.

There is another possibility too, that your gut is shedding some old stuff too that was undigested starches.

Strange your tTg is still high after all that time gluten-free (unless that is from stuff that is still present in your colon)!!! Have you considered having a colonic?

Sounds like the probios are helping though.

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Mia that is the test that I had, although my test said "sugars" instead of "starch". The starches should be digested high in the small intestine and broken down to single sugar form and absorbed. The enzymes to break the starch down to the single sugar (monosaccharide) form are made in the villi (at least some of the enzymes, I'm not an expert so I don't know if all are). So with villi damage, we can't digest them properly.

So I think this is strong evidence that you need to be on SCD. It is the very reason my doctor put me on SCD. I am so glad to hear that you have some improvement and sure hope it will continue.

My improvement is slow but sure.

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Thanks for the information about the burp test. I just don't do well with supplements so I think I will stick to the beets and vinegar for now, I am also drinking fresh ginger juice and tea which are supposed to help and with a little honey delicious.

One of the symptoms of hypochlorhydria is sensitivity (in the stomach) to supplements. I've gone from taking 250mg of Betaine HCl with each meal to as much as 850mg with each meal (I vary the dose based on how much protein I'm eating) and have never had heartburn. It's really helping... I don't have the feeling that food is sitting in my stomach like a rock anymore.

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One of the symptoms of hypochlorhydria is sensitivity (in the stomach) to supplements. I've gone from taking 250mg of Betaine HCl with each meal to as much as 850mg with each meal (I vary the dose based on how much protein I'm eating) and have never had heartburn. It's really helping... I don't have the feeling that food is sitting in my stomach like a rock anymore.

Thanks, I will check out the Betaine HCI. :)

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When taken as a supplement, betaine hydrochloride provides extra hydrochloric acid in the stomach. A major branch of alternative medicine known as naturopathy has long held that low stomach acid is a widespread problem that interferes with digestion and the absorption of nutrients. Betaine hydrochloride is one of the most common recommendations for this proposed condition, along with the more folksy choice of apple cider vinegar.

Sorry the link won't work, lame ad....

Also of interest is that much of the Betaine available is made from beets. For the time being I think I will stay with beets and apple cider vinegar but I will make sure I do this on a daily basis as it is clear that it helps.

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Just an update on me:

We were on vacation for 2 weeks PLUS the holidays....Then I got back to a ton of sales and commission work. So I have been VERY BUSY. But Im not complaining...in this economy....it is such a blessing!!

Right now I am investigation "migraine syndrome". I found this book in a bookstore:

Heal Your Headache: The 1-2-3 Program for Taking Charge of Your Pain (Paperback)

by David Buchholz

I was getting better, but I had some NEURO setbacks. This book was "spot on" for me. My symptoms....ALL neuro really. Very mild D. But ALL others neuro. He explains how my symptoms are all manifestations of migraine (not just the headaches). Fascinating read too. I believe Gluten is definately a trigger for me, but he explains all the many other food triggers.

So I am 1 week into the migraine relief diet. He says to give it a good 2 months before assessing. So nothing to report just yet. I want the vertigo, neuropathy and headaches to go completely away....I dont want any residual.

The book explains why the SCD wasnt working for me totally. I had to nix fermented foods and nuts. As they are both major triggers to migraines.

Will let you know!! When things ease up....I'll be back in.

Shay

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All right everyone, with experience with the SCD!!!!! I have questions. I am starting my intro diet Monday, and trying to make my first batch of yogurt. I am making goat yogurt, cause I am almost positive cow`s would be a problem. So I bought this goat milk in the store, supposedly gradeA, and also a so called "acidophilus yogurt", with only COW`s milk and good bacteria in it. I read it, that I can use this with a little bit of goat`s milk, ferment it, then use it as a starter in the yogurt I am eating, this way I didn`t have to wait for any non-dairy starter to come in the mail, making me wait longer. Now, has anyone tried this method, who is sensitive to the regular cow`s milk? What else do you use if you can`t tolerate the cow? Is Yogurmet safe? The book actually said, that to use yogurt as the starter is the best. Maybe I could use goat`s yogurt?

an other question is the honey. I bought clover honey from health food store, that is all natural and has a very light color. There were several others there, like one that was looking like coconut oil, that white, but supposedly that was very natural and raw and all the good stuff. Also there was raw honey, but it didn`t say it was all natural, so I thought I don`t know what they feed their bees with. Well, I had a hard time choosing, and who knows if I did a good job.. What has been your experience with honey and what do you buy? (I live in the US, but maybe there`s no that much difference between the countries, I don`t know. ) I shopped at Earth Fare, if anybody is familiar with that.

I am right now on the Candida, gluten-free diet, so I am already getting used to eating only a few kinds of food. But my fear is, that if I add honey, it will not be good for me. I crave sweet tastes SO much that is unbelievable. I had yeast in my blood last year, then it cleared up and I think it must be back again, from my symphtomes, but I haven`t seen nobody to tell me that. What should I do? Start with a little bit of honey, or no honey at all?? Any experience with that?

The book says to have a doctor whatching your diet, so you`ll be fine. Well, I don`t have one and don`t really want one. I have seen them last year, when I first found out things about my health. I know my body and see my problems. This diet looks safe to me, I am on my own. Is that bad?

Someone also mentioned to start eating the yogurt first in very small amounts. So I shouldn`t eat the cheesecake and other dairy-like foods in the intro diet?

And the last thing is, that I was not able to get the dry curd cottage cheese, nobody has ever heard of it,blah blah blah... So what do I do?

Thanks for your response,I know I had a lots of questions, I am sorry about that, but you guys talk from experience, I want to know that! :-) I`ll be out of town till Sunday, but I`ll check em as soon as I get back. I am ready for this SCD and HEALING!!!!

GFLady

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Yes, you can use cows milk yogurt as the starter with your goats milk. The 24-hour culturing not only increases the amount of bacteria, but also ensures that most, if not all of the lactose is pre-digested and the casein is turned into a more digestible form. Most commercial yogurts are only cultured for 6 - 8 hours. The small amount of cows yogurt should not give you a problem as it will be dissipated into the whole batch.

I don't know which yogurt you bought or which probiotic strains are in it - I usually buy the Total thick greek live yogurt which is lovely and creamy and makes a nice batch. Some even add some light or heavy cream to the mix to make it richer.

Although I am dairy intolerant I have been able to cope with the yogurt ok. Some prefer to use other things to make the yogurt with like coconut milk or almond milk if they are very dairy sensitive.

If a honey says that it is raw then that is much better as it means it hasn't been heat-treated and the enzymes are still intact. Bees will 'feed' on whatever flowers and pollen are at hand and it is all pretty good stuff so as long as the honey is raw you can't go far wrong.

If you feel that Candida is an issue then you may need to go a bit easy on the honey for a while.

As long as you follow the diet properly you should be able to obtain all the nutrients your body needs without the need for a doctor. I think that is more the case that if you have a health practitioner who is supportive then by all means do it with their blessing.

Start the whole diet gently, including the yogurt - there is no use running before you can walk. Just because a food is SCD 'legal' doesn't mean that your body can cope with it at the moment. Although I can now eat a lot more food than I could when I started 10 months ago, I still have difficulty digesting nuts and pork - it just depends on the individual. Others may be fine with the nuts and pork, yet have issues with other foods.

If you are aware that your body is struggling with a certain food, then shelve it for a while and try it again later. Try and learn to go with your body instead of trying to make your body conform to what you want it to do.

You may well have problems getting hold of the dry curd cheese - there are a few manufacturers, but it depends where you are. If you are in the States (I am in the UK) others on the thread may be able to direct you to a source. I would not sorry too much about that at the moment. You can 'drip' the yogurt to make a live cheese which is not dissimilar to it and that can be used in different recipes. The whey that is removed from the dripped cheese can also be used in drinks or other things so no need to waste any of it.

I make my own coconut milk from fresh coconuts - the method is on the SCD recipe thread if you are interested in trying that. Its a little fiddly but the end result is great!

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I've been making sandwiches with the almond/egg/dry curd cottage cheese bread and this bread is delicious unlike the many gluten free substitutes. Sunday I made raspberry jam and with the SCD cream cheese on toast I am in heaven. I love the SCD and find great variety in what I can cook and eat.

but only since I started the SCD diet about six weeks ago have I felt any real hope of recovery.

Rinne - can you post the recipe for your almond/egg/dry curd cottage cheese bread? That is the one thing I am missing - and your SCD toast with SCD cream chees and raspberry jam sound wonderful!!!!

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Rinne - can you post the recipe for your almond/egg/dry curd cottage cheese bread? That is the one thing I am missing - and your SCD toast with SCD cream chees and raspberry jam sound wonderful!!!!

Sure, I'll do that on the dedicated recipe thread first thing tomorrow, too sleepy now!

Tonight I made a frozen lemon yogurt with goat milk yogurt that is so good if you like lemons, my sweetie says it tastes just like lemon pie, I'll post it too. :)

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For those still having bloating, I found this on another site, from a person who has been on SCD 5 years.

I deal with bloating in my small intestines all the time; part of having poor upper GI motility. The bloating has improved the longer I've been on SCD, since part of the bloating comes from poor gut ecology. So I think you'll find that your bloating will improve the longer you're on SCD.

The first year on SCD is the toughest, in terms of symptoms. Our bodies have to go through a lot of detoxing and healing at first. Eventually, though, you'll find that your intestines work so much more efficiently that bloating, along with other symptoms, will become minimal, and if you're lucky, disappear.

For now, bloating is a sign that you're eating foods your digestion can't cope with. This causes fermentation, which causes bloating. Also encourages bacterial overgrowth, which can lead to other intestinal disorders.

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I'm having trouble posting, I posted this once but it disappeared, so will try to post one more time before I give up (sigh).

Several on the thread have mentioned bloating problems. The following is a quote from another online source, where a person on SCD for 5 years explained something about bloating. I found this quite helpful.

I deal with bloating in my small intestines all the time; part of having poor upper GI motility. The bloating has improved the longer I've been on SCD, since part of the bloating comes from poor gut ecology. So I think you'll find that your bloating will improve the longer you're on SCD.

The first year on SCD is the toughest, in terms of symptoms. Our bodies have to go through a lot of detoxing and healing at first. Eventually, though, you'll find that your intestines work so much more efficiently that bloating, along with other symptoms, will become minimal, and if you're lucky, disappear.

For now, bloating is a sign that you're eating foods your digestion can't cope with. This causes fermentation, which causes bloating. Also encourages bacterial overgrowth, which can lead to other intestinal disorders.

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Hi MsLee. Welcome to the thread.

The GAPS diet is the SCD in essence.

I think you need to take things a bit more gently. A damaged gut cannot cope with too much to start with. Dairy is difficult for a lot as damaged villi cannot produce the lactase needed for its digestion.

It is best to start at the beginning and work through - even though there are a lot of 'legal' foods on the diet, some of them may still cause issues to start with. I have been on the diet for 10 months and although there is a lot more I can eat now, I still have problems digesting some foods like pork and occasionally nuts and have only recently been able to tolerate a little dairy. Some get better quicker (especially if they are very disciplined on the diet) and others slower but there are very few who don't improve in some way on the diet.

Thanks! I had been dairy free for 6 months so thought I would give it a try...it really was just a few bites but I learned my lesson. Dairy really has not been as hard as I thought it would be...it even tastes a little icky now.

Pork is supposed to be high in histamines that could be an issue too. As for nuts, they just dont seem to digest fully...same with some veggies.

I think I need to look into balancing enzymes & acid....

and give this time :)

One thing I have noticed with the chicken soup is that I have to make sure the chicken is organic otherwise I find that boiling the bones for the soup seems to draw things out that affect me - both me and my hubby get a lot of mucous for an hour or two after eating chicken soup if it wasn't organic although the freshly roasted meat seems fine.

Organic everything is better (and home-grown better still!) if you are able to get hold of it and can afford it.

Ok will try, I eat as much organic as possible...going into debt doing it but I'm sick of being sick!

Candida and Leaky gut may well be a problem but as you heal that should improve. When I started there was little I could eat, but my diet is a lot broader now.

I asked my GI if I had leaky gut, he said "he didn't think so" but I did have some gastritis.

I know candida is an issue.

Thanks again!

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Say what??? This is the simplest diet! No complicated grainy foodlike substances to worry about. Just plain veggies, fruits, meats, eggs, nuts, honey, yogurt, cheese, oil and spices. What could be easier?

and rinne "I agree. Too complicated for who? What orientation does this dietitian have?"

I know!!! and unless she knows nothing of SCD/GAPS she would see by my food diary I send her every 2 weeks I am basically already on it. But she should know something of this diet because she is the head dietitian at a major hospital...you know where sick people go for help.

sigh.

She is nice & has been somewhat helpful seems that she tries & I appreciate it but...now what? She is the only one who said I may have Hyperglycemia by the sounds of my symptoms & that is something I have asked countless Doctors about & am pretty much told they don't know why I have those symptoms..."could be the fibromyalgia, could be the lupus, maybe your just depressed?"

sigh again.

Good vent! ;) thanks!

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I know!!! and unless she knows nothing of SCD/GAPS she would see by my food diary I send her every 2 weeks I am basically already on it. But she should know something of this diet because she is the head dietitian at a major hospital...you know where sick people go for help.

sigh.

She is nice & has been somewhat helpful seems that she tries & I appreciate it but...now what?

I don't think I would assume that training for dietitians would include SCD/GAPS, like it would diabetic diets etc. Its so unfortunate. I wonder, if there are SCD groups like there are local celiac groups that might be helpful.

It is very hard but I am getting the sense that in adapting SCD to each of us individually, we have to test things out ourselves and figure out what we can handle and not handle. On another SCD forum over the weekend I read someone who had posted that they would do 2-3 days of "intro" periodically of eating only meat. The woman said that every time she did this she would have another level of healing. She does it when she has a flare, it calms it down and brings her to a new level. Obviously this is not a balanced diet, but done periodically for a short time it was really helping her. I'm not suggesting this for you, my point is that there doesn't seem to be a short cut to the trial and error.

Perhaps she could help you be calculating the nutritional content of the foods you can eat, and let you know how much of each per week for a certain basic coverage of the basic needs??

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and rinne "I agree. Too complicated for who? What orientation does this dietitian have?"

I know!!! and unless she knows nothing of SCD/GAPS she would see by my food diary I send her every 2 weeks I am basically already on it. But she should know something of this diet because she is the head dietitian at a major hospital...you know where sick people go for help.

sigh.

She is nice & has been somewhat helpful seems that she tries & I appreciate it but...now what? She is the only one who said I may have Hyperglycemia by the sounds of my symptoms & that is something I have asked countless Doctors about & am pretty much told they don't know why I have those symptoms..."could be the fibromyalgia, could be the lupus, maybe your just depressed?"

sigh again.

Good vent! ;) thanks!

Sigh is right. :o

I think you may have your answer when you say she works for a major hospital, her training would have been completely conventional BUT given that she is at least willing to talk about hypoglycemia she may be willing to be an ally and you may be able to educate her. I say that only if you need her ongoing support and if you have the energy for it.

Some years ago after breaking my jaw and my leg which required a hospital stay I was offered pureed liver, beets and potatoes, it was a pink gray sludge that provoked a hunger strike on my part. :lol: I met the dietitian who was anxious to help but all that she could offer me was Ensure with bananas blended into it, a slight improvement but barely.

It is extraordinary to me how powerful diet really is and how little we respect that in our society but given the dollars made by supplying medicines to fix what happens when we don't respect our diets maybe not a surprise. :(

I am falling in love with food again. I realize now how many years I have spent afraid of eating and I intend to make up for it. :) I highly recommend the two books by Jodi Bager and Jenny Lass, the Grain Free Gourmet cookbooks. Last night I made an Apple Galette which was totally yummy.

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Sigh is right. :o

I think you may have your answer when you say she works for a major hospital, her training would have been completely conventional BUT given that she is at least willing to talk about hypoglycemia she may be willing to be an ally and you may be able to educate her. I say that only if you need her ongoing support and if you have the energy for it.

Some years ago after breaking my jaw and my leg which required a hospital stay I was offered pureed liver, beets and potatoes, it was a pink gray sludge that provoked a hunger strike on my part. :lol: I met the dietitian who was anxious to help but all that she could offer me was Ensure with bananas blended into it, a slight improvement but barely.

It is extraordinary to me how powerful diet really is and how little we respect that in our society but given the dollars made by supplying medicines to fix what happens when we don't respect our diets maybe not a surprise. :(

I am falling in love with food again. I realize now how many years I have spent afraid of eating and I intend to make up for it. :) I highly recommend the two books by Jodi Bager and Jenny Lass, the Grain Free Gourmet cookbooks. Last night I made an Apple Galette which was totally yummy.

ew liver, beets, & boost!

I know I was really torn my Doc told me to see the dietitians at the hospital...& I thought I should seek out my own...but thought maybe the Hospital Dietitian would have some experience with severe celiac. She didn't have alot, but seems open.

I will give it a little more time, she noticed I do better consuming protein & avoiding carbs & sugars & maybe I can get her help to get a dx for this dizziness issue.

Sounds like if I do SCD I need to be prepared anyways... will give it a little more time but stay carb/sugar light.

It is crazy it's starting to look as though all my health problems have roots in my diet, the gluten & now sugar & carbs. I would much rather eat this way than take pills the rest of my life!

Thanks will look into the cook books!

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It is extraordinary to me how powerful diet really is and how little we respect that in our society but given the dollars made by supplying medicines to fix what happens when we don't respect our diets maybe not a surprise. :(

I am falling in love with food again. I realize now how many years I have spent afraid of eating and I intend to make up for it. :) I highly recommend the two books by Jodi Bager and Jenny Lass, the Grain Free Gourmet cookbooks. Last night I made an Apple Galette which was totally yummy.

Mmmm. I think I am going to have to invest in those books!

You are so right about diet and its effects on us. People just do not have any idea of what they are doing to themselves.

We have become so reliant on doctors that we think if something happens we can just go along and the doc will fix it. Unfortunately that rarely happens as most medications are merely props and sadly, so many would not have to go to the doc in the first place if they took care of themselves and ate good nutritious food.

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Hi everybody, HELP ME!!!!! I have started the SCD, today was my second day of intro. I CAN`T STAND IT!!! I am so hungry, yet so nauseous. I wish I could eat fries and chocolate, my ultimate comfort food. :-) I know in my head this diet is the best thing to do, but it is SOOOOOOO hard!!!!! I need some support and advice on how to survive, if there`s any. BTW, I have diarrhea ever since I have started and I am worried. Is that supposed to happen? This was gone from my life for a long time, since I`ve been gluten-free. Now is it back? Is it something in the diet I already cannot tolerate?? There`s no way to tell!!

And my yogurt...well, I hope the cow milk yogurt tastes a bit better. This is not bad, but very sour, and the cheese cake I made from it, was truly bad. It tasted like a goat, serisouly! Has a very strong taste. Is anybody out there experiencing this? Can I get used to it? Problem is, that I cannot make neither the cheese cake, nor the jello to go down my throat. Tomorrow I`ll eat some apples and zuccini, well cooked. How long do I do the stages??

If anybody could advise me on these, I would appreciate it. I have to belive it is worth it and one day I will be normal again...

GFLady

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Hi GFLady!

It will get better! The first days are the hardest. You had mentioned having done a Candida Diet and also yeast. If this is a problem for you then I would expect what you are having right now is die off from cutting out all of the foods that feed the bad bugs. Which is also where the cravings are coming in. But hang in there...because after you get past this initial stage - the cravings will disappear and the die off reaction should level off.

My understanding on the yogurt is that because it is fermented longer than typical yogurt, this accounts for why it tastes more sour. But the good new is - your taste buds will adjust. I didn't like the yogurt (cow's milk) at first without honey. But now I eat a spoonful of it plain - about every other day - and enjoy the flavor. I have tried yogurt from goat milk - and I would rather forgo it than eat it. <_< Yes, I thought it tasted like a goat - was not impressed.

In the book, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle," the author, Elaine Gottshall did not place a specific period of time on the stages. The main thing though - is go slow with adding foods (particularly if you suffer from food allergies/intolerances). You should only add one food at a time, and wait a couple of days in between adding more. That way you will know if you have a reaction to it or not. The D you are experiencing is likely die off also. I believe that the book recommends that as long as you have D, then that guides when you can add more foods (past stage 1). The Pecanbread site should give you the details on this (or maybe someone else will jump in where I am not remembering). Also, most people experience changes in their bowel habits at first, it seems, on this diet. This is due sometimes to die off and also the body adjusting.

I found I was particularly hungry during the intro (2 days only) and the first weeks. I still find that I want to eat 6 small meals a day. For me, I need to balance out the protein/veggies/fruits with an adequate amount of fat for the food to have any staying power.

One thing that has helped me was to get at least one cookbook so that I didn't feel so deprived (this helped me because I could see how much good food I could truly make on this diet!!!). There are some great sites out there. One is www.nomorecrohns.com. Great recipes, good info. I also enjoy Paul Stocker's site (http://eatingscd.wordpress.com/about/). He also has a lot of recipes.

The first weeks I ate alot of chicken and cooked apples/pears and bananas. Also hamburger patties. Oh yes, I also made my own breakfast sausage, and would also take some to work for snacks. This helped alot. Soups are good as well - I ate that alot as a filler. Plus, you can make a large pot - which will last for several meals.

You can do this!! As you get adjusted to cooking everything from scratch, it does become easier. You just need to get your system down. I am now making crackers, homemade mayo - stuff like this that I would have never thought I could make! And - it tastes really good! :P Who knew real food tasted so great?! But I guess that is what eating all the chemicals and processed food does to a person - you loose sight of and taste for real food.

I have been on this diet since November. And I have seen improvements. It IS worth it!! I don't have all the gas that I had before, bloating is getting better, I don't have all the headaches I used to have, and the constant mucous flow I have has definitely gotten better (it hasn't disappeared yet - but I have hope that one day it will). Others have seen quite a lot of improvement as well on the diet.

Hang in there! This is a good place to post - with lots of great people who are very supportive. :)

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