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Breila

Ignorant Comments

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So true. And if I didn't have to change my whole life around because of a dire health issue, I would still be eating out most of the time or eating prepared food (albeit from the food co-op). I certainly wouldn't be reading every label or walking around with my own condiments or paying more for food.

Maybe you can help me understand the REVERSE ??? (In all seriousness)

I really have a problem believing someone doesn't know how pasta is made .... don't get me wrong I know lots of people don't, I just don't understand how they can have got to a certain age and not asked?

I know I am a foody... but I have always wanted to know what is in food from a very early age... I cannot undertstand how anyone can put something in their mouth without asking? (Yet I know most/many) people do?

I sometimes wonder if as a kid I had 'suspicions' certain foods made me ill? I realise its me that is 'not normal' but I can't quite rationalise the normal...???


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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Hi,

I was told last time I'm not supposed to post things like that or my own web site but they did say it was ok to refer you to my profile which lists the website. On the site you can scroll down to the rant section and find the produce mixing letter, or just send me email from the message section with your email. My real name is Ken Love.

take care

ken is correct, its board rules... but nothing stops me posting it ... (since I'm nothing to do with it)

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. (JC, De Bello Gallico Liber III/XVIII)

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Sorry, but I don't think this is an apt analogy. Like TrillumHunter said. " Not everyone plays the madolin, but EVERYONE eats!" I also don't mean to be snarky, but do kids not watch those movies in school anymore where they show you bread comes from wheat and milk comes from cows? I've known since 2nd grade where my food comes from. I'm not that old--32--but I know I was taught where food came from in SCHOOL. You shouldn't need to have hippy parents to know where your food comes from. Not to get on a soap box, but today, they're so busy prepping kids for standardized tests, they've forgotten to teach kids some basic, common knowlege and common sense. The fact that all of use have been on the receiving end of such comments like, "So you can't eat bread, but you can have pasta, right?", is a sad commentary on our educational system.

And my favorite comment? We walked into a Damon's and asked if if they had a wheat allergy menu. The kid said, "I'm pretty sure we don't serve any wheat products." Really?! Not a one, I'm pretty sure you do!

I agree that there should be more nutritional education integrated into classes such as health and science at every grade level, especially now with the growing health problems of obesity, diabetes and largely undiagnosed issues like celiac disease. However, I think as a country we have only just begun to label our food accurately, and more could be done.

As the experiences of many on this thread suggest, I am not the only one who has had a disconnect with the pervasive idea of wheat in almost all of our food, and as white flour. I am just one of the few who is probably honest and confident enough to admit it. I think a large part of the problem could be addressed if we required food to be labeled more precisely. White flour should be labeled as White or processed wheat flour, just as whole wheat flour is labeled as it is.

Maybe you can help me understand the REVERSE ??? (In all seriousness)

I really have a problem believing someone doesn't know how pasta is made .... don't get me wrong I know lots of people don't, I just don't understand how they can have got to a certain age and not asked?

I know I am a foody... but I have always wanted to know what is in food from a very early age... I cannot undertstand how anyone can put something in their mouth without asking? (Yet I know most/many) people do?

I sometimes wonder if as a kid I had 'suspicions' certain foods made me ill? I realise its me that is 'not normal' but I can't quite rationalise the normal...???

I think I did explain it somewhat a while back. There are a lot of people in this country that only eat vegetables out of cans, but that is another matter. I have always been a health-conscious adult and teenager, and actually did read labels starting as a teen, and did take a bunch of vitamins, because it was relevant for me at the time. I was getting headaches and acne, and figured out a way to control it with diet. I also had to figure out very young that I couldn't do coffee, and that fresh vegetables were better for me than canned. But, this was not something that I found around me in my environment, but out of the way on my own.

The issue for me was not how pasta was made, but understanding that white or enriched flour was a processed version of whole wheat. As an adult, I knew how to heal myself with nutrition and food and have figured out all of my major ailments and illnesses in life on my own before seeing a doctor, and have nursed myself back to health with nutrition. But, I think before figuring out my affliction with grains and associated intolerances, I was looking largely at issues organic/conventional, lean meat or fat, etc. rather than at grains, because for most they are completely under the radar. I tried to avoid white flour, but was under the impression that whole wheat was better, but didn't fully understand or stop to think that they are different processed versions of the same thing, because wheat is represented as harmless in comparison to everything else. When I understood this not to be the case and see grains as a likely culprit, I could then fully diagnose my own intolerance, and I think a large percentage of the population would have the same experience if they made the connection with largely "invisible" white flour and whole wheat.


-First overt but unrecognized symptoms after reintroducing dairy and wheat to my diet after a 2-month absence, 2002.

-First appearance of chronic aphthous stomatiti, 2002.

-Giardia infection and treatment with albenzole, 2005.

-Persistent symptoms and treated for Giardia again with Flagyl twice (without testing), 2006.

-Dx milk allergy from a blood test, April 2007.

-Also presented for anemia, high white blood cell count, and candida in the same test. Dx IBS, April 2007.

-Response to diet and self-diagnosis through overwhelming symptoms and possible genetic link (hypothyroidism, fibromyalgia runs in the family), April 2008

-Currently learning to go gluten-free (April 2008), and coping with new sensitivities.

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being a math/physics geek, and going to a college full of 'em, the real world quickly taught me that "ignorant" just means that you're unaware of something the other person thinks is obvious, regardless of why the other person thinks it's obvious. some comments that initially struck me as shockingly "ignorant":

me: "we can assume that we're working with a normal distribution."

them: "... what's a normal distribution?"

me: "it says sin^-1(theta). that means arcsin(theta)."

them: "are you sure? I thought it meant 1/sin(theta)."

you might think I'm an arrogant you-know-what for calling that ignorant. but that's my point. ignorant is a perspective. those things were painfully obvious to me, and I expected any engineer to know them. just like we're expecting anyone who eats to know where their food comes from. but - in both cases - it's an unrealistic expectations. the engineers I was working with didn't need to know that information in order to just get their jobs done and people these days don't need to know where their food comes from in order to just get food in their mouths.

you can argue about priorities and shoulds and quality of this or that. but the basic requirement doesn't need the knowledge, so expecting it will just get you shocked at someone's "ignorance". I quickly learned to just be patient, remember that I was coming from - as well all do - a different place.

and, of course, I would be in their shoes some day, someone staring at me slack jawed, wondering how I could be so "ignorant", when I just didn't have the same intimate familiarity with their world. :)


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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This conversation has just made me change my mind about a movie from years ago. To me this sci-fi movie seemed so very silly unrealistic - I would say to myself "people would know what this food is made of." SOYLENT GREEN ..Now I wonder maybe the govt. could get away with it..

As an aside, I grew up with non-hippie parents - my parents were "greasers" from the 1950's :D - black leather jackets, poodle skirts, etc. , in a inner city and inasmuch as we did not grow our own food, by the time I was 13 I knew what food was "what" and where it came from and what kind of plant was harvested to obtain it. I watched my mother and grandmother cook and use flour, milk, butter, eggs. I knew baked goods and macaroni/noodles were wheat based - creamy foods had dairy/eggs in them. I was also taught how to cook and was baking cakes from scratch at age 14. Our school taught "Home Economics" known as "Foods Class" today. Maybe I came from an unusual family, but they made their own pasta, cheese and wine.

I just think that today's popular culture allows people to remain ignormat about the subject of food (unless you are a Food Channel junkie) . Knowing about foods isn't as exciting as those reality TV shows or Desperate Housewives or game show (except Jeopardy! and Are you as Smart as a Fifth Grader - where the show actually tests your knowledge).

I have to admit, however, that years and years ago when I first heard of wheat intolerance/gluten intolerance I thought it was a "hippie" fad (hippy generation is older than me). I thought it was absurd that humans would not be able to tolerate natural wheat. I know better now ;)


Husband has Celiac Disease and

Husband misdiagnosed for 27 yrs -

The misdiagnosis was: IBS or colitis

Mis-diagnosed from 1977 to 2003 by various gastros including one of the largest,

most prestigious medical groups in northern NJ which constantly advertises themselves as

being the "best." This GI told him it was "all in his head."

Serious Depressive state ensued

Finally Diagnosed with celiac disease in 2003

Other food sensitivities: almost all fruits, vegetables, spices, eggs, nuts, yeast, fried foods, roughage, soy.

Needs to gain back at least 25 lbs. of the 40 lbs pounds he lost - lost a great amout of body fat and muscle

Developed neuropathy in 2005

Now has lymphadema 2006It is my opinion that his subsequent disorders could have been avoided had he been diagnosed sooner by any of the dozen or so doctors he saw between 1977 to 2003

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Wow this thread was funny at first but now it literally hurts my brain reading it.

Not knowing what crackers, french fries, pudding is made out of?

I'm sorry but you would have to be pretty stupid for that to even be physically possible.

Its common knowledge. And yes its VERY scary for nurses to have made it through medical

school without any basic nutritional understanding.

Thats why I shun the western medical industry! I handle all this stuff on my own.

Gah. I have a headache thinking about this. lol

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I was once talking to some ladies at my churgh. We had just had a potluck a few days before, and i had made a cake. There were leftovers, so I had brought it home and ate the rest of it over the next few days. It got some crumbs on it from a regular cake that I didn't realize were there until it was too late. I was telling the ladies about it and that I got sick, and one lady said "Well, you only felt sick because you saw the crumbs" :blink:

I had to correct her on that! I said I got sick before I realized some crumbs from the other cake were on there. Then she said "I was just kidding."

I have gotten the comments a couple of times that "it is white bread, so there is no wheat"

Some people are just totally clueless!

I was told that too one time when I had gotten sick. I only got sick because I saw the offending food, not because I ate it.

I wanted to hit the person, they were being such a jerk and this comment topped it off. :angry::angry::angry:


~Barb

Gluten Free October 18, 2007

YIPPEE for Gluten free

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I was walking down the bread isle with my mom in the store. "so what breads in this isle can you eat?.....ooooo!....this is a good one!, 'roman meal wheat bread', lets look at the ingrients to see if you can have it."

:blink:

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Right after I was diagnosed, my wife and I were in the grocery store just picking up items to see if I could have them. Being in the mode of just grabbing the next thing on the shelf, my wife read the ingredients in "cream of wheat". Apparently they add something to that that celiacs can't have. :)

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Recently, I was at Saltgrass. Won't go into the whole story, but when I told the waiter I needed to eat gluten and dairy (casein) free, he gave me a blank look. I then said, should I talk to the manager? He said, "No, we don't serve gluten here." At that very second I looked immediately over at the BEER BREAD he had just brought to the table for the rest of the group. Obviously I knew that Saltgrass is NOT a gluten free restaurant, but couldn't help but stare at the bread and be amazed at the ignorance. It's okay to not know. Haven't we all learned a lot? What's not okay is making comments when you don't actually know and with such confidence and conviction. I wonder what he thinks gluten actually is? Thankfully, I already knew exactly what and how I needed to order b/c my local Celiac group did a restaurant investigation.

And back when my daughter and I were first dx'd, I was a member at the Y. When I took started to take her to the nursery after starting the new diet I spoke to the nursery workers about snacks. "Don't give her any snacks, only what I provide." The next time I restated this info and one of the nursery workers then asked me how I figured that goldfish have wheat. Hmm...I guess b/c it's made with flour. Yes, white flour, but wheat flour nonetheless. I already knew (pre-Celiac) that white flour is wheat flour stripped of nutrients. I've been very surprised to learn how many educated people do not know that.

TGRAND


TGrand

gluten free since 10/18/07

casein free since 4/08

...and feeling better than I ever have!

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Well, I corrected and/or admitted I was wrong on taking offense at the word ignorant. Now "stupid" has appeared.

I'll go back to my original point that the people on this site have a reason to be aware of the ingredients in their food and that is why they know. The general public that has no significant food sensitivities really has no need to think about a food once they've incorporated it into their diet. I'm sure the person who was surprised that I couldn't eat fried chicken would have known why if he had thought thru the process.

These comments we encounter are usually, but not always, due to not having to think about it.

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I have to agree, this post has lost it's point; which was initially venting about what people say in their "ignorance".

To be fair, as Tim-in-VA posted, ignorance varies. There are levels. True ignorance, or when people honestly just don't know, is totally forgivable. But it's willful ignorance; from our families, healthcare providers, or food service workers, that really tries one's patience. I agree, it is a shame, that people are not more educated about what goes into their bodies. I have always been a label reader, but I have come to realize that I am not the norm. I think part of that is due to the food industry, who really would rather people stay unaware so they can continue to market unhealthy foods as healthy.

Whatever you want to call it, we hear things everyday that continue to astound us. Yes some people are generally unaware, and I take those opportunities to educate every person that I can. But, I'll admit, I too get extremely frustrated with restaurants that market themselves as knowledgable and willing to accomodate, but have no idea that white flour and wheat flour are the same. These, in my opinion, are examples of willful ignorance.


Be yourself, everyone else is taken.

Oscar Wilde

Gluten free November 2007

IgA Deficient, Neg Bloodwork, Double DQ2 Positive

Dietary and Genetic Diagnosis June 2, 2008

Soy free Jan 09

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I agree, I was not happy to see the word stupid appear, I never meant to imply that anyone was stupid.

I do however stand by my initial assertion that people in this country really should be more aware of what their food is made of. I knew what white flour was long before I had a clue that some people were intolerant of it or had ever heard the term celiac disease and I suppose I was the ignorant one in my assumption that most people did. Educated in digestive disorders or not, I still find it surprising that it seems like a large portion of our population does not know what they are eating, nor do they seem to care.


Blessings,

Amy, mama to 3 awesome boys!

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One of the funniest for me is when you tell someone that you can't have gluten and they bring you something that is obviously not gluten free and say 'but "gluten" is not listed on the ingredients!'

A lot of people don't know what gluten is or assume that it is one item rather than a protein that is found in almost everything.


Australian

Gluten Free Since mid March 2008

As well as gluten I can't eat: cantaloupe, honeydew, dairy and most nuts and seeds. I also seem to have a problem with a lot of fruits and vegetables but only when they are raw.

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From the mother I called after her 9 year old son and another boy threw a piece of bread on my Celiac son's lunch at school: "Well your son was making light of it (Celiac) and joking that the bread was poison to him."

And yes, it's been over 5 months since the incident and it still really burns me! But I digress...this was supposed to be a funny thread...

I still get and still love the "He can't have pasta?" comment.

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Sorry but I do think some people are just stupid.

I don't mean not knowing everything gluten is in, that is understandable.

But not knowing where flour comes from? Not knowing what french fries are made out of?

Yeah. Ive known that stuff since I was 3 or 4. It's common knowledge.

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I do however stand by my initial assertion that people in this country really should be more aware of what their food is made of.

This is kind of the point, well my point anyway. Your "should" isn't other people's "should". I think people should know basic probability (we are exposed to it, use it, and need to use it every day), but many people would disagree with me and feel they get by just fine without knowing it. I agree with you that it would be better if people would know where their food comes from, but they get by just fine without knowing that information - or fine enough for them.

So, "should" is very subjective here.


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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I agree with you that it would be better if people would know where their food comes from, but they get by just fine without knowing that information - or fine enough for them.

So, "should" is very subjective here.

But most people aren't getting along just fine. All the undiagnosed celiacs aside, what about the epidemic of obesity and diabetes? Cancer? Genetics is only half of the equation. The other half is lifestyle choices--including the food we eat.


Celiac blood testing negative July 2007

Confirmed diagnosis of wheat allergy by skin test Dec 2007

Gluten-lite since July 2007 (didn't know all the hidden sources of gluten)

Gluten-free since December 2007

Life Long Symptoms

Extreme fatigue--needing 10-12 hours of sleep and still woke up exhusted

Allergic to everything--allergies remained out of control despite shots and strict enviornmental controls in my home.

Severe "sinus" headaches

More Recent Symptoms

IBS symptoms

Severe stabbing stomach pains that started 6 months before diagnosis of wheat allergy.

In my heart I feel it is more than an allergy and that I am gluten intolerant. This is based on my how eerily my childhood maladies match most celiac's histories, and my more recent increase in the severity of my usual symptoms and new digestive symptoms that have already started to subside on the gluten-free diet.

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A little off-topic maybe, but I NEVER try to explain to someone in a restaurant that I have a problem with gluten. Rarely does someone ever understand what that is. I always say that I can't eat (and sometimes say I'm "allergic") to wheat, barley, rye and oats. I don't think that the majority of people in the US have even heard of gluten, so it's pointless telling people that you can't have it. Obviously, most people don't even know what wheat is in, so they aren't going to know what gluten is in. I'm always surprised when people actually DO know what gluten is.

I do expect more from those in the medical profession - nurses and doctors should have more training in nutrition, especially nurses who deliver food to patients in hospitals.


Liz

Started Specific Carbohydrate Diet on 8-16-09 because son was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis and want to give him moral support.

Diagnosed with Minimal Change Nephrotic Syndrome in 2003. Discovered that going completely gluten-free put me in remission.

I would have despaired unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Psalms 27:13

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A little off-topic maybe, but I NEVER try to explain to someone in a restaurant that I have a problem with gluten. Rarely does someone ever understand what that is. I always say that I can't eat (and sometimes say I'm "allergic") to wheat, barley, rye and oats. I don't think that the majority of people in the US have even heard of gluten, so it's pointless telling people that you can't have it. Obviously, most people don't even know what wheat is in, so they aren't going to know what gluten is in. I'm always surprised when people actually DO know what gluten is.

I do expect more from those in the medical profession - nurses and doctors should have more training in nutrition, especially nurses who deliver food to patients in hospitals.

I agree. When I am speaking to someone I follow Lonewolf's example. I explain I can not have wheat, oats, rye or barley and that it will make me very ill. Yes, every once in a while I do need to educate someone that white flour is made from wheat or that most soy sauce contains wheat. For the majority of the people reading labels is not on their list of thing to do because it does not impact them or a family member.


Phyllis

Gluten Free - 30 years

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Great message tarnalberry.

I don't expect others to wear their celiac as badge of honor. All we can do is hope to educate others and not be ashamed of something that we are inflicted with. We can talk choices and how we fell like who's should etc. but the bottom line for me is to present choices and educate those interested. It's up to them if they listen and do or don't want to learn.

Ken

This is kind of the point, well my point anyway. Your "should" isn't other people's "should". I think people should know basic probability (we are exposed to it, use it, and need to use it every day), but many people would disagree with me and feel they get by just fine without knowing it. I agree with you that it would be better if people would know where their food comes from, but they get by just fine without knowing that information - or fine enough for them.

So, "should" is very subjective here.


"Ryo tatereba mi ga tatanu"

If we try to serve both sides, we cannot stand our own ground.

Japanese proverb

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

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But most people aren't getting along just fine. All the undiagnosed celiacs aside, what about the epidemic of obesity and diabetes? Cancer? Genetics is only half of the equation. The other half is lifestyle choices--including the food we eat.

That still leaves open for debate the option that people might have a right to eat unhealthy and die early because of it. That leads to issues about who pays for their health and end-of-life expenses.

"Would be better off", perhaps. "Should", who are you to tell me.

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But most people aren't getting along just fine. All the undiagnosed celiacs aside, what about the epidemic of obesity and diabetes? Cancer? Genetics is only half of the equation. The other half is lifestyle choices--including the food we eat.

Yeah, and people don't truly, in the big picture, get along just fine eating processed foods, not getting out and getting exercise every day and getting some sun every day. But I don't in any way getting all worried that people are ignorant for eating things than come out of a box and have more than four ingredients - or, heaven forbid, they can heat up straight out of a freezer!, for sitting on their couch after work four days out of the week, or for putting on sunscreen before their skin sees the light of day. But they get along fine enough for themselves.

I may find it pretty ignorant and something any "smart person" "should not" do. But again - my should isn't anyone else's. I may try to help someone understand why it is my "should" and encourage them to make it their "should" as well. But as much as we expect people to respect our choices about foods (our "should"s), we should (heh) respect other people's choices about foods, activities, knowledge - even when we disagree with them, even when we disagree with them a lot. (Why should we still respect their decision if we disagree with them? Because they are another human being, not under our control, who - by right of being another human being - is deserving of that respect. We don't have to condone it or help them with it, and we can walk away, of course.)

That isn't about ignorance, that's about choice. And half of ignorance is about choice as well - choosing not to learn something.


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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Yeah, and people don't truly, in the big picture, get along just fine eating processed foods, not getting out and getting exercise every day and getting some sun every day. But I don't in any way getting all worried that people are ignorant for eating things than come out of a box and have more than four ingredients - or, heaven forbid, they can heat up straight out of a freezer!, for sitting on their couch after work four days out of the week, or for putting on sunscreen before their skin sees the light of day. But they get along fine enough for themselves.

I may find it pretty ignorant and something any "smart person" "should not" do. But again - my should isn't anyone else's. I may try to help someone understand why it is my "should" and encourage them to make it their "should" as well. But as much as we expect people to respect our choices about foods (our "should"s), we should (heh) respect other people's choices about foods, activities, knowledge - even when we disagree with them, even when we disagree with them a lot. (Why should we still respect their decision if we disagree with them? Because they are another human being, not under our control, who - by right of being another human being - is deserving of that respect. We don't have to condone it or help them with it, and we can walk away, of course.)

That isn't about ignorance, that's about choice. And half of ignorance is about choice as well - choosing not to learn something.

So true. I completely agree with Tiffany. It is all about respect for each other even when we don't agree.


Peter

Diagnosis by biopsy of practically non-existent villi; gluten-free since July 2000. I was retested five years later and the biopsy was normal. You can beat this disease!

Type 1 (autoimmune) diabetes diagnosed in March 1986

Markham, Ontario (borders on Toronto)

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator since 2007

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lol!

when i first told my friends @ school that i couldnt have wheat they said "so what do you do? just eat white bread?"

and today on the bus my friend said "oh when i make bread i dont put gluten in it."

and then "well you can have graham crackers, right?"

i thought it was a given that anything made of bread had gluten in it.

oh well! some people OBVIOUSLY dont have celiac!!! lol! ;)

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