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holiday16

Testing Results

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I am looking forward to seeing the list of negatives. I am one of those sensitive people. Reading the label does rule out obvious gluten sources, but many things make me sick that don't give me any indication of that from the label. I want to get a job now that I have finally figured out what is wrong with me and I should be able to work. I really can't afford to take a week off work every time I eat the wrong thing. These tests are cheap compared to missing work for a week. Plus, the kind of work I do, I need my brain sharp. I really can't afford to keep getting glutened all the time. I agree with Lisa16. When I joined this group, I thought that it would be a great resource to find out which items that said they were gluten free actually weren't. I don't understand the opposition. Perhaps people who aren't that sensitive just don't understand the problems that those of us who are face.

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My apologies for not seeing the part about the plan, Mike M and ShayFL. What a noble experiment! Thank you both for incurring this expense and checking this product out for all of us.

ShayFL-- when you post the results of your control test, could you also please take a minute to explain why the test wouldn't be valid for non-food items as well? I would really appreciate it. I am not a scientist, although having this disease has certainly made me wish I had taken more of those classes when I had the chance.

I don't understand why a test that is calibrated to a specific protein known to be present in significant quantities in only three or four grains would fail when applied to non-food items. Take shampoo or body butter or conditioner, for example. There are some out there that have only plant extracts as ingredients (with, say, fragrance or tocopherol or a preservative thrown in) and I bet you could eat them and not get sick (assuming they don't have gluten or allergens). And if these might be valid, then why would pulping a paper plate be any different? Where is the line?

Why would testing something like the plate or a cosmetic be problematic? Does it have to do with the Ph? Food phs vary quite a lot. Or might the presence of another similar protein or chemical compound "block" the test results somethow by masking or denaturing the gluten? Is it something like that? I don't mean to be difficult-- I just want to understand.

Thank you.

Lisa

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Lisa,

You would need to call Elisa and ask them. They just said that the test was not designed for non-food items. That doesnt mean that it wouldnt work, it just means that they cannot vouch for the validity of testing on non-food items.

Im just eating lunch now, and should be able to test within a few hours and have the results. I will take picture of the tests so you can see what I see.

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RESULTS ARE IN!! Read EVERYTHING I write here BEFORE you make up your own mind.

Bottom Line For Me: A Waste of Money

Why? Both food items that were known gluten-free tested NEG as expected. Whole Wheat pasta tested High POS as expected. BUT the Wheat based Soy Sauce tested NEG. The WHOLE point of these tests is to detect minute amounts of gluten (they claim down to 10 ppm). Wheat based soy sauce was expected to be POS, but was NEG. That makes them completely useless to me. I am looking for "hidden" gluten, so the fact that it gives whole wheat pastas a POS doesnt help me at all. The fact that it gives a NEG for items that are known gluten-free doesnt help me either (they were the controls in this experiment). The fact that it gives wheat based soy sauce a NEG, makes them (the test strips) dangerous for me to depend on.

Many in here have gotten sick from soy sauce. Many.

"One drop of soy sauce or strand of spaghetti sets off an auto-immune reaction, and antibodies start destroying the nutrient-absorbing capability of the gut."

"regular soy sauce contains 40-60% wheat"

Here are my pictures:

www.terracegallery.com/Nongluten1.jpg

www.terracegallery.com/Nogluten2.jpg

www.terracegallery.com/Nogluten3.jpg

www.terracegallery.com/Gluten1.jpg

www.terracegallery.com/Gluten2.jpg

www.terracegallery.com/Gluten3.jpg

I followed the directions to a T. I am the most anal person in the world. Yes, I admit it. I cleaned the surface area, washed my hands and put on new gloves for each test. I used their little measuring spoon to put the exact amount into the extraction solution (.05 g). I then shook the vials for 2 minutes. I set a timer. Sat them down and left undisturbed for 5 minutes. Again I used a timer. Took exactly 10 drops from the upper 1/8 inch (clearest sections per the instructions) and put them into the test tube and then put the EZ Gluten test strip in arrows pointing down and left undisturbed for 10 minutes. I timed it. I removed the test strips and compared them to the results card.

The instruction pamphlet says: For FOOD TESTING ONLY (They must have a reason for this). It also states that a negative result does not necessarily indicate a complete absence of gluten in the product being tested. This statement alone makes them worthless to me. The whole point is to detect gluten. It goes on to say ELISA Technologies, Inc. makes no warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, except that the materials from which its products are made are of standard quality. (i.e. they do not guarantee that they are accurate, only that they use quality materials to produce the strips.) Buyer assumes all risk and liability resulting from use of this product.

MIKE: I know you REALLY believe in these test strips and I suggest you KEEP believing. There is great power in what one believes. If you feel they are valid and work for you, they are likely to continue to do so. But for me - NO - they did not prove valid.

EVERYTHING I have written here is the result of my own experiments with 4 EZ Gluten test strips using 2 known gluten foods and 2 known gluten-free foods. My OPINION is that they are a waste of money. You might have a different experience with EZ Gluten test strips. You might draw a different conclusion/opinion than I did. It is entirely up to you to decide whether these test strips are right for you. I have nothing against nor any affiliation with ELISA Technologies, Inc.

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It also states that a negative result does not necessarily indicate a complete absence of gluten in the product being tested.

I appreciate all the time (and money) you took to test these strips. I was very interested in what the results would be.

The above quoted statement alone tells me that I'm better off doing what I already do--read labels, call companies, and when in doubt--don't eat. This works well for me as an extremely sensitive Celiac with several other food intolerances, living in a household that also contains gluten.

At the end of the day, we all have to make the decisions that we feel are right for us. How nice to have differing opinions and input from which to consider.

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Well said Patti, and thanks Shay. I agree that my need for this is for hidden sources primarily and it needs to be highly reliable.

Shay, I hope you send your test results to the company.

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Yes, I plan on copying and pasting my post here directly to them. They said on the phone that the items I was testing were suitable. I made sure.

I am certain they will come back and say that the amount of gluten in the soy sauce must be below 10 ppm. What else could they say? But I personally have gotten sick from soy sauce (vertigo and D). So in my mind, it doesnt matter what they say. I wouldnt be eating that soy sauce.

No one has to take my experiment as definitive. Anyone can test for themselves. But you have to have 60+ bucks you dont mind parting with.

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I've been anxiously awaiting your results. I'm sad to see they did not pass your testing. While I agree they are far too expensive for regular use, a reliable home product would be nice to have available if I felt I really needed to test something. Maybe on a vacation. (Like I ever take those). I don't know if the price would ever go down cheap enough to use frequently like blood sugar test strips. Wouldn't that be nice? They are priced more like pregnancy tests and plenty of people purchase those. The money hungry manufacturers don't seem to feel the need to lower the cost on those.

I'm one to look at a problem from as many possible angles as I can. I often find my own mistakes this way. When I analyze others, it sometimes comes across as critical. I don't intend this at all. I usually only do this when I'm agreeing with an idea. It is my way of checking myself. Before I make up my mind, I have one more question that needs answering. :huh: Does the soy sauce REALLY contain gluten? :huh: Are food manufacturers required to include all ingredients listed, or just to list all ingredients included? I've seen labels that say this item "may contain x, y, or z." In this case, are they printing a package that has wheat on the label, but sometimes including that ingredient and sometimes not. A phone call to the company with the package in hand might be necessary to answer this one. I'm new to the label reading scene, and you folks may already know the law.

I would hate to blame the test if it was actually the soy sauce manufacturer that deleted one ingredient. Shay, I must commend you on both your willingness to spend so much money on this experiment and on your excellent scientific analysis. You have done all of us a great service. Mike, I also appreciate the dilligent testing you have done on your own items. I have to suspect that you have contributed to the body of knowledge about what is and is not safe for us. It sounds like you really beleive in this company and have spent a great deal of money with them. I'm sorry your reactions to gluten are so strong that you need to test so many things.

Shay, I would think that the company would want to send you a boat load for free so you can go on a testing binge. Maybe even with the other 1/2 of the soy packet. A bunch more negatives and negatives with a stronger concentration of soy sauce would tell something. As would positives from the same pack of soy sauce.

For now, I'm cautiously agreeing these are not something I ever see myself purchasing. Thank you for this expensive experiment.

SGWhiskers.

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Bottom Line For Me: A Waste of Money

Why? Both food items that were known gluten-free tested NEG as expected. Whole Wheat pasta tested High POS as expected. BUT the Wheat based Soy Sauce tested NEG. The WHOLE point of these tests is to detect minute amounts of gluten (they claim down to 10 ppm). Wheat based soy sauce was expected to be POS, but was NEG. That makes them completely useless to me.

ShaFl. That is a lot of work and effort on your part. A good scientific study would not be complete until the scientist can confirm that his/her controls are just that-in control. The soy sauce you tested was negative for gluten. Your test strip confirms this. We gave gone this far. Lets don't stop now. All the best, Mike

I will cut to the chase-Kikkoman as well as LaChoy soy sauce test negative. I know I know, one of these says right on the label WHEAT. Are you aware of how high the price of wheat has been in the last couple of years? Think maybe they cut out the wheat in an effort to control their costs?

P.S. If ELISA had a product that threw false negatives or positives, well, they are much smarter than that. They are a very well respected lab that makes a living doing testing from all over the world. This is not there first gig.

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If I didnt get VERTIGO and MIGRAINE when I eat gluten, I would just make a stir-fry with the Kikkoman and see if I got D. But there is never a "good" time to have VERTIGO for 3 - 4 days.

Everyone makes up their own minds. I have said this repeatedly. This is just my experiment and my observations. And my OPINION is a waste of money. I PERSONALLY WILL NEVER BUY THESE AGAIN.

What also struck me is that the whole wheat pasta should have been a definitive high positive. No questions. But it wasnt. That middle line was there, though fainter than the other two. For a high positive that middle line isnt there at all. That was also suspect for me and made me question the tests sensitivity.

I do not doubt that they can detect gluten, but I do not believe for one minute they are as sensitive as they claim. Nope. Not at all. I do not trust them with my health.

Like I said Mike, you believe in them. Keep on believing. They make you feel safe and there is some serious value in that. Peace of mind is priceless.

But they do not do that for me.

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I just sent this to Kikkoman. Their website really makes a big deal about how they answer consumers questions quickly and accurately. They also make a BIG DEAL about the ingredients they use and proper labeling for allergens. The have a big write up about their quality control for a consistent product. So here is what I sent them:

Hello,

I am Celiac and cannot eat gluten (wheat, rye, barley and oats). Your naturally brewed soy sauce says that it contains wheat. However, someone in my Celiac support group suggested that your soy sauce might not contain any gluten at all. Is this true? Someone mentioned that the high price of wheat has made manufacturers stop using wheat to make soy sauce. Is this true? How much wheat is in your soy sauce? Can you explain a little bit more about how it is made? Would it still contain gluten from the wheat? Would I be safe eating it? Thank you.

***And I just copy and pasted my results to ELISA. It would be nice if they sent some free tests for me to test more. But I would be surprised. More likely they will give a disclaimer. Their little pamphlet lists the specific foods that they have tested these strips on. They make no claims for accuracy for ANY other foods other than the ones they listed (which is limited to meat, poultry, fish, fruit, vegetables,dairy,baked goods,pet foods, eggs, spice mixes, dressings, cereals, rice and beer). They also say ketchup and mustard can invalidate the test. Ok...why is that? Is it the vinegar? Or Sugar? If so, that would make them invalid for nearly all processed foods.

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Maybe you also got a bum test strip. That is another possibility-- and more likely, I think. But if there are bum strips, then that is not good from our point of view either.

BTW-- I asked my dad (a PhD in chemistry) about why you would have to use these on food items only. He said that the test would work for non-food items, but because the test is designed for testing food and the regulations for testing food are very specific, the company must say the results would not be guaranteed. That is his thinking, at any rate.

I think at the core of this whole thread is a sense of control. As celiacs we all experienced a loss of control over our bodies, our food, our environment and ultimately our lives. These strips had the potential to make us feel like we had more control. Ergo the fascination and the hope.

Perhaps given ShayFL's results, the items that reacted positively for gluten are more telling than those that do not. In which case we are back to square one with Mike's list. I am glad ShayFL contacted both companies. Let's see what they say.

Thank you both once again.

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The only one that tested POS for gluten was WHOLE WHEAT PASTA. Was there any doubt there?

No....I would only be impressed with it detecting "trace" amounts or "smaller" amounts like one would expect in soy sauce.

So just like the company claims, if a product tests NEG then you cannot assume it is safe for you to eat (Celiac).

You could use Mike's list of foods/non-foods that tested POS (when they shouldnt have). No harm in it because you are simply avoiding more things.

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I would like to see Mike make available the "black list" of foods as promised.

Hello ShayFl. You are talking about the negative for gluten list? Lets call this the green list meaning the products at the time of testing via the Elisa gluten test strip, tested negative. Your test was valid, no bad strips ect. ect. I would have never tested the Kikkomans soy sauce for an obvious reason......Says right on the label WHEAT. I understand your logic, however you established your baseline with the test of the whole wheat pasta. Gliadin is found in the inside of the wheat kernal. Gliadin is what the seed lives on during germination. Wheat pasta is not made out of pure gluten.

I was up at the store last night at 9:30 P.M. buying the Kikkoman and the LaChoy soy sauce. As I also mentioned.....They both tested negative. I think it is safe to say this was an excellent double blind test of the gluten strip. Your results match mine. You will agree that we have never met or discussed doing this test?

What we are doing with these test strips is very important in moving us all to the next level with regards to having a better understanding of what we are consuming. I am moving on without you. All the best, Mike

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No she was talking about the POS on your list. Things that shouldnt have gluten but do (like the paper plates). Based on my test results I personally would have little faith in your NEG list. Cuz according to my experiment, there would need to be a fair amount of gluten in a product for it to come up POS. So those could be avoided. No harm in that. Just avoiding more things.

I would still avoid wheat based soy sauce even if it was on your NEG list (like my test showed). So need for the NEG list. Just the POS.

Mike, you do not participate in other topics in this forum. This is YOUR baby. You may work for ELISA. You may not. It doesnt matter to me at all, I am an independent thinker and base my decisions on my own intuition and evidence (research).

100 people could come in here that are active on the forums with tons of posts and experience on this site and tell me these strips work. But I dont feel they do as advertised. So you have been moving on without me all along........

***Anyone (besides Mike) sensitive to gluten willing to eat some Kikkoman soy sauce????

The test said it was NEG for gluten. Who will eat some? Someone who has a known reaction to gluten. Anyone?

If you say to yourself NO I am not willing to eat the Kikkoman soy sauce even with a NEG gluten result, then these tests are completely useless to you. You will never trust a NEG.

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I need to do another post about the validity of these strips. I have nothing to do with the company, but I do have some credentials to back me up. I am a PhD chemist, former researcher with about 18 publications in peer reviewed journals, from my educational years. I worked for a testing place for awhile and have personally tested peanut butter for mold and chicken for hormones as well as other things.

The negative test for soy sauce doesn't show the test strips to be useless. The soy sauce may have contained something that interfered with the test, the amount may have been under 10 ppm, or the sensitivity might be less. None of these possibilities make the test useless. If the test could show the presence of gluten in a case where you would assume it is absent, like in orange juice, wine, or a gluten free product, so that you could avoid eating that item and not get sick, the test is very useful.

I would really appreciate seeing your results, Mike. I am unemployed and can't afford to do my own.

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Let me say again: useless to me. I would not buy them again. They are too expensive. They are completely impractical. TO ME. WASTE OF MONEY.

Please anyone else who can afford it do your own testing. Post your results here if you like.

These test strips DID NOT prove valid or useful to me personally.

I have a Phd in Nutrition, but I certainly do not know everything about nutrition. I have taken Chemistry classes up the wazoo and understand how to do a valid experiment. I have conducted research and written a dissertation.

I never said that this experiment was a validated peer reviewed study. Or that anything I posted was conclusive. I just stated MY OPINION. I cannot afford to test these on a large scale. And I am not going to base my opinion on Mike (who posts only in here and doesnt participate on the rest of the board)

It was simply a retail customer buying a product, testing it for accuracy and determining that they were not accurate or practical for their own personal use. That's it.

It is so hard to know who works for ELISA and who doesnt in a forum like this. Many companies take advantage of sick people. I just try not to be a victim and in this case I didnt want others to fall prey either.

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I have nothing against Mike personally. I do not even know him. I personally just dont feel comfortable basing my own decisions on the voice of one person who has focused most of his energy in here on this ELISA test. That is just me and I use my own personal intuition. If you feel comfortable, then by all means, get him to list his NEG list. Use it. Feel confident in your decision. There is power in what you believe. If you personally believe that Mike has run tests and that those tests are accurate, then you can feel very certain that you can eat the foods that Mike says are safe.

I will log into this thread just to see if Mike actually posts that list. No danger in posting a NEG list at all. Doesnt hurt the companies in ANY way and in fact HELPS them make sales.

I dont feel bad for Mike. I envy Mike. Mike has found an answer to his prayers. He can eat in perfect reassurance that what he is eating is safe for him. He can afford to spend thousands of dollars on tests that make him feel safe.

I have not found that. I still have to be concerned about the foods I eat. I still have to read labels. I still have to stick to whole foods. I didnt get the results I would have liked from the ELISA test strips. No....I do not feel bad for Mike.

I have done my part in here. People can think for themselves and take away what they want and leave the rest.

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I need to do another post about the validity of these strips. I have nothing to do with the company, but I do have some credentials to back me up. I am a PhD chemist, former researcher with about 18 publications in peer reviewed journals, from my educational years. I worked for a testing place for awhile and have personally tested peanut butter for mold and chicken for hormones as well as other things.

The negative test for soy sauce doesn't show the test strips to be useless. The soy sauce may have contained something that interfered with the test, the amount may have been under 10 ppm, or the sensitivity might be less. None of these possibilities make the test useless. If the test could show the presence of gluten in a case where you would assume it is absent, like in orange juice, wine, or a gluten free product, so that you could avoid eating that item and not get sick, the test is very useful.

I would really appreciate seeing your results, Mike. I am unemployed and can't afford to do my own.

Hello Dilettantesteph, thanks for your input and I am sorry this seems to be just dragging on and on here. Still might be a couple of days or so before I get the good list posted. When I started compiling this list, I did not know I would be sharing this info, so I need to edit the list and give a little more information.

May God be my witness, I am not affiliated with ELISA or any other company, now, or at any time in my life, with regards to this list or anything else related to gluten. I had never even heard of gluten prior to my diagnosis. I do not have any other motive other than to share this information to help all of us negotiate this "mine field" of gluten and hopefully live just a little bit better. During this extensive gluten testing, I have made a significant discovery. I will share this at another time. All the best, Mike

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Hello Dilettantesteph, thanks for your input and I am sorry this seems to be just dragging on and on here. Still might be a couple of days or so before I get the good list posted. When I started compiling this list, I did not know I would be sharing this info, so I need to edit the list and give a little more information.

May God be my witness, I am not affiliated with ELISA or any other company, now, or at any time in my life, with regards to this list or anything else related to gluten. I had never even heard of gluten prior to my diagnosis. I do not have any other motive other than to share this information to help all of us negotiate this "mine field" of gluten and hopefully live just a little bit better. During this extensive gluten testing, I have made a significant discovery. I will share this at another time. All the best, Mike

Thanks Mike. I don't know if you intend to include a positive list. I can understand if you don't want to include company names. Maybe you could at least include categories that I would not otherwise suspect. For instance I had no previous knowledge about oranges and strawberries or wine as possibilities. It explains a lot. My son swore that his strawberry smoothies were making him sick and I didn't want to believe him. I pushed them for a few days more than I would have had I reason to suspect strawberries. Now I have started washing our oranges after purchase. I like to get as much knowledge as possible. I can always later decide that it doesn't apply to my situation.

It really has dragged on.

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