GermanMia

Ali - no, my doctor didn't try the SCD herself (it's a lady) - she is so busy she hardly seems to have time to sleep at all - starts at 7.30 in the morning and leaves at about ten in the evening... She admits that she has no time to busy herself with dietary issues - but she told me she thought my approach was reasonable so I#d do what I think is good for me.

I made some tests now and found that another of my problems is fructose malabsorption. So that explains something. I wondered why I have problems with sauerkraut - never had that before - but sauerkraut is very high in fructose. Also I should cut carrots, peanuts, apples, pears, raisins and peppers from my diet. Little bit honey should be okay. But I read that coconut (milk and cream) is not good either. Maybe those of you who have strange problems should try to avoid the things high in fructose for a while, too. As I never had problems with any kind of fruit or veggies before, I suppose this maldigestion will go away when everything else heals.

Tomorrow I'll have an endoscopy, and maybe the results of the blood tests are in then, too. Today I'm going to deliver a stool sample. So that all together may give me a picture - so glad I started doing those tests, because I never would have found out about the fructose.

Shay - thanks for the clarification! I had allergy testing done (skin prick, followed by some intradermal when nothing showed, follow by bloodwork (I assume it was IgE) - nothing showed up. So that gives me hope that indeed my intolerances are a symptom of bad bacteria/leaky gut - and will disappear when I take care of those issues.

GermanMia...you know, I can remember various times in my life when it seemed that I felt sick after everything I ate. I just didn't want to eat. I can remember at those times that I would try to eat apples or bananas - and those were the only things that made me feel better. I pondered what that meant - I was sure it meant my diet was awful (it was) and my body needed good nutrition (and not bread!). Then it would pass, and I would continue on eating poorly. This was before my gluten-free days.

Now my middle daughter is having the same issue. Seems to feel nauseous alot after eating, or her stomach hurts. She is gluten-free and compliant with the diet as she cannot function eating gluten. She is very sensitive to cross contamination and minute bits of gluten. Going gluten-free took care of the horrible headaches, fatigue, irritability, etc. But now it seems that some of the same symptoms are popping up again - and she is certain she hasn't eaten any gluten (honestly, I don't think she eats enough - but she doesn't feel like eating if she is just going to feel sick). I said to her this morning that maybe she wants to walk this path with me (we talk alot about food, diet) - maybe that would help. She said she just might, and if it works, that was just fine with her (doesn't matter about the food restrictions).

I am thinking she is only 16!!! How could so much be fouled up?? I am not opposed to having her walk with me on this path - except for how it relates to my DH - who I have not shared any of my thoughts with regarding my own diet. He is supportive of gluten-free eating, sees the difference it makes in both my daughters, believes it is a problem. But - I think he would see this as going overboard, what proof do we have that we need to do this, etc. I mean, when I started down this path I was convinced I had candida overgrowth and actually went on a candida diet for a year - and it turned out the bigger problem was gluten. So he remembers that, reminds me that what I originally thought was wrong, blah, blah, blah (BTW - while gluten was the bigger problem, that does not mean, in my mind - that candida wasn't part of the problem as well - it was just one piece of the puzzle). And I have to say that when I told him I was eliminating corn, dairy and eggs - his comments were along the lines of - why do you need to totally remove it? Maybe if you just limit it, just eat a little here and there. You don't have to totally cut eggs, why not just have them on the weekends?

Maybe he wouldn't respond that way, but who knows and I don't have the energy to try to educate him and bring him onboard with this - since it is for me and I'll be the one following it. It won't affect him in any way (except he won't have to be irritated by my constant throat clearing! )

I feel more frustrated by what I see happening with my daughter. I am older, I don't go out much - so this is not a big crimp in my lifestyle. I see her struggling, I don't know why, I wish I could have confirmation from somewhere as to was specifically is going on with her, I wish we didn't have to guess. I mean, while candida was likely a piece to my puzzle (may still be) I was so focused on that, I missed the gluten connection. I feel like I have been going along hit and miss in search of feeling better.

My daughter is going to turn 16 this month. At this point I believe her to be old enough to be a participant in her health (as opposed to me just telling her what to do). I think I need to start pointing her in directions to read. I want her to have an understanding of what she is doing and why and she needs to have an opinion about this as well.

Dawn - if you buy the book BTVC, buy the one with the supplement "The Celiac Story". In that supplement Elaine points out that in the early stages of discovering reasons for celiac in children the idea was to remove all grains and starches. Only later scientific research found out about gluten and reactions to gluten and they limited the diagnosis celiac disease to only this specific reaction. That explains why a lot of celiacs don't completely recover when only eliminating gluten from their diet.

The point is just what my doc told me - that due to long time gluten exposure the gut flora changes and the whole digestive process is completely disturbed so that you never are able to restore the normal flora as long as you don't eliminate everything that feeds the wrong bacteria. Nausea and other symptoms specifically related to celiac may disappear (which happened in me with that nausea ceasing and my hair becoming thicker) but all the other problems might even get worse. If you go on gluten-free diet, you tend to eating more starches because gluten-free baking requires more starches, and you might start to have an overdose of strange grains which are aliens to your gut... Your already disturbed immune system gets completely confused, and at some point it may start reacting to just anything you eat.

So that is the vicious cycle which you have to break. My doc never had heard of the SCD before and as a typical German who has either her rolls or her musli for breakfast she found it quite difficult to do such a diet, but it absolutely made sense to her.

Maybe your daughter would like reading her way through Naomi Devlin's beautiful blog - especially the part where she tells how she came round to SCD. When I read that I really nearly cried because it sounded so much like my own story and I was so glad to have found a way out of this misery... And I really wish I would have found something like that 20 years ago! The story is here: milkforthemorningcake.blogspot.com/2008/03/slow-dawning-of-terrible-truth.html

Perhaps she can do what pele said, just jump into the diet skipping the intro. I'm quite sure she will feel the difference quickly and then she'll be happy to have a diet she can follow which makes her feel good.

I know it's difficult to go out while following such a diet - but I suppose your daughter isn't having much fun now when she goes out and has normal food... it can't get worse.

She also might read those cookbooks - the people who wrote those books are people who suffered themselves and now share their ways to get out of their misery. They have tips how to manage going out, too, which is very helpful.

Like you I think your daughter is old enough to have understanding for this subject, and take responsibility for her own health. You're old enough to drive a car at this age, so if you can take responsibility for an engine and what that engine could cause in traffic, you certainly should be able to take responsibility for your own life. You wouldn't want to hurt other people, either, so no reason to start hurting yourself.

Anyone else ever tried fasting?

Hi Ali,

in some way I did try. At the age of 14 (24 years ago) I already had huge problems - nausea after everything I eat except raw fruit, veggies, natural yoghurt and peanuts. It was a difficult tiime, too, because my father was very ill and my mom got alcoholic, so I was fed up one day with being upset with my mom and having nausea all the time above all. Angrily I told myself to best stop eating - so one problem might be solved. And it was solved - I felt incredibly well for some time, only that of course one day I started feeling completely exhausted because I already was thin when I started fasting... But I always repeated this experience every now and then when the problems got too bad, and it used to keep me going for another couple of months afterwards. People thought I was anorectic, of course, and no doc came to the brillant idea that I wasn't ill because I was fasting but I was fasting because I felt ill...

By the way I saw the GE yesterday who is a very nice lady. Funny enough, without ever having heard about Elaine's book and the SCD, she told me exactly what Elaine says in her book! About wrong bacteria overwhelming the normal flora, not being able to fight candida because of that and feeding the wrong flora with the undigested carbohydrates in the gut. And she told me it was no wonder I had three great months with no symptoms at all after I took the antibiotic in April: The antibiotic I took happened to be a very broad one that kills absolutely everything - so it killed the bacteria in the kidneys and accidentally the bad guys in the gut, too! But continuing eating carbs of course I recultivated the bad guys - because my gluten free diet was not completely gluten free! I didn't realise that I was using soy sauce which contains WHEAT all the time! Now I'll have some new blood and stool tests and a biopsy (which I never had so far) so I know where I am - and then I only have to follow the SCD consequently and patiently. I'm so glad!

Hi Dawn,

if you already take an antihistamine, it's not very likely that your reactions are caused by histamine intolerance. Not impossible, but usually an antihistamine should suppress reactions to histamine.

So it might be what is said about leaky gut: that you show random reactions to everything now and then and can't predict the reactions. And this is why one should start with the intro of the SCD. It's only a limited number of foods which usually don't bother the gut too much. You start with these and wait until your system starts to calm down, then you introduce the other foods, step by step, as slowly or fast as your system can tolerate.

My naturopth explained that because of a leaky gut the body developes pseudo-allergies with random symptoms which you never can predict. Actually that histamine intolerance is kind of pseudo-allergy, too. So that should go away as soon as the gut heals, I suppose. Maybe there are people more sensitive to histamine than others who just have to avoid those histamine provoking food for a while to cool the body's reactions down a bit.

Dawn,

I have no clue how it is in the states but here in Germany don't seem to be many general practitioners who know about any kind of food intolerance / allergy. It was not my GP but the GI he sent me to who had this idea. My hubby is a physician, too, and he phoned the GI to find out if she's fit. First thing she said was I should test for lactose, fructose and histamine which could explain a lot or even all of my problems. I'll see her tomorrow.

So maybe you should see a GI, too.

Fig girl,

I had no sore specks but kind of neurodermitis all over - barely visible, but my skin (especially the face) and my head were itching all the time. Only some days ago I realised the itching is nearly gone!

Hi DMarie,

it's like Ali said - food industry programmed our software for things which nature didn't create us for. I can assure you that I've been addicted to whole grain bread my whole life. If anyone had told me I had to go grain free, I probably would have run after him with my longest kitchen knife... I LOVED dark chocolate and I hated cooked carrots and chicken soup... Then, one year ago, I started feeling so dreadful I was glad to find out I'm celiac, so I could eliminate gluten and fell well again. It didn't work - it got even worse. I was delighted about polenta and sweet potatos, millet, rice, quinoa and buckwheat - and then I found that it all made me even more sick. When I saw the SCD intro, I thought - oh my goodness, cooked carrots and chicken soup - ! Honey and bananas - I hate sweet things when they don't contain chocolate!

But then I was so desperate I just gave it a try. And to my astonishment I found that all of a sudden I loved cooked carrot, I loved chicken soup and I loved bananas. I rid my body of all those sickening things and suddenly he develops likings for things which are natural for us. It's only five weeks now that I'm on SCD and I cannot imagine why I ever was so fond of normal bread. I had a piece of chocolate in a blond moment when a friend offered it to me, and it tasted disgustingly sweet and artificial.

Look at it that way: In the dawn of humankind we didn't grow grains. We lived on meat, fruits, leaves, raw eggs, bugs, worms, grass, roots, berries, honey if we could get it. Of course we were fond of honey and sweet fruits because they promised fast energy. Otherwise we were occupied the whole day running around to find enough we could eat. Then some day we found out about fire - that made things so much easier to eat and to store! A long time later we fund out how to grow grains - we were delighted because a barn full of grains grants life without running around and seeking and risking to starve in winter. It was far more comfortable. And we could handle it - life still was hard work so our body needed quick fuel which we always used up with physical labour.

Finally we built up industry, life became more and more technical and the physical labour got less until nowadays most people spend their lives sitting at a desk and driving cars... But we got used to eating grains - of course we didn't change because it has become a habit, and it's a comfortable habit, too. Not much work for our body to digest and not much work to prepare - you can feed crowds of people on a simple way. But our poor bodies still are made for hard work - for using up all the ready-to-burn fuel which is offered. But the engine of our body is going on economy mode now - digestion is no longer on high speed level - and we still offer high speed fuel, combined with all the other things industry has invented first to make life more comfortable and then to make money. Just what Ali said. No wonder our engine is running mad...

But if we go back to what nature made us for, our body remembers what is good for it. We develope likings for those things. Body intelligence...

Reading the description of your problems I'd suggest not testing all foods in the first way but starting with histamine intolerance. Many of your seemingly random symptoms are quite typical for histamine intolerance which would explain a lot. And you wouldn't be able to discover that going on SCD because many histamie provoking foods are essential in SCD. Maybe you ask a GI about that?

Mia

Ali,

I didn't use store bought yoghurt until now because they either contain bifidobacteria or the bacteria aren't specificated. Our local superstore happens to offer Total Greek yoghurt since september I think, but the bacteria there weren't specificated either. So I used starter cultures from the organic food shop which contain streptococcus salivarius thermophilus and lactobacillus delbruckii bulgaricus. But if you say the Total yoghurt is okay, I'll use it.

Hi Kim,

if you can tell me exactly where you will go I'll be able to find out about eating out there. How sensitive are you to gluten? I know that some celiacs can tolerate chocolate which says "may contain traces of gluten" but some even get sick with those traces. There is chocolate which is declared to be gluten free, though. Do you prefer dark chocolate or milk chocolate?

Sherry,

good that you're getting better finally!!

Shay and Ali,

the coconut flour is made from the pulp which remains after pressing the oil out of the flesh, so it's mostly fibres and protein.

I always mistrusted the coconuts sold here because when I once bought one it turned out very old and tasted disgusting. But that's more than 20 years ago, so I suppose nowadays it will be different. So I'll give it a try although we only get the old coconuts here - I can have moo milk yoghurt but am so curious about this coconut yoghurt! The good thing is you don't have to let it ferment 24 hours because there is no lactose in it, so maybe if you only ferment it only 10 or 12 hours it won't be so tart? Or would 10 hours be to short?

One time I wanted coconut milk I also tried to make it from coconut flakes. Just put one cup in the processor and add two cups boiling water, process two or three minutes and strain. For using in Thai recipes that was okay, but I doubt that you could make yoghurt out of that.

Mia

FigGirl,

you're right about the pb cookie recipe - it contains one egg, not ghee or butter... But I think I'll give it a try with ghee instead of egg.

Shay,

maybe it's because the coconut flour is defatted - that means it's extremely rich in fibre which might trouble your digestive System. Normally you don't have such an amount of fibre in coconut at once.

Mia

Just found this: www.honeybigbee.com/

The recipes contain some egg free desserts (applesauce banana muffins, pumpkin pudding, fruitcake)

That sounds difficult. I do hope for you that it will become more clear. The whole situation in China seams to be an ecological desaster, as far as I get it here. Is the milk safe at least?

Shay,

If you prefer sweet for breakfast: carrots fried with honey in a skillet are very yummy.

Hi Shay and Ali,

of course you can use whatever nut flour you have on hand. The pecan flour just makes the stuff more brownie-like because it's very dark. I think using almond flour will make it taste a lot like marzipan

ArtGirl,

I found that it's better to decrease the amount of flour when using coconut flour, not increasing the liquid or fat. I made some muffins and instead of 2 cups of almond flour I used 1 cup almond flour and 1/2 cup coconut flour. They turned out very nice. If you use it in eggless recipes, I'd recommend either adding some molten coconut oil plus some more fruit puree or beating together the wet ingredients first and then slowly stirring in coconut flour until the batter has the desired consistency. Or if you tolerate flaked coconut, make a mixture of coconut flour and flaked coconut.

I'm sorry for that dextrose accident, though it might be good to know where you are... Our friend who runs the pralin

Thanks, FigGirl! As I mostly don't drink anything except water, I never look at drink recipes... should do that next time

Sherry,

that sounds great! I think I'll try that, too.

Shay and ArtGirl:

EGGLESS BROWNIES-pecan flour

3 cups Pecan Flour

2 pears (peeled and cored)

1/4 cup ghee (you can use butter or coconut butter)

1 tsp baking soda

1/8 tsp salt

1/2 tsp Vanilla

1/4 tsp nutmeg or cinnamon

Preheat oven to 325F. (ca. 160

chatycady,

no, it isn't. Last winter was a very mild winter here so that the grains that dropped by harvesting the corn could sprout uncontrolled.

Shay,

I don't eat kimchi because it's far too hot for me - I tried it once at a Korean friend's and I couldn't stop weeping for hours But I know that traditionally kimchi is kind of Korean sauerkraut, it's lacto fermented cabbage with tons of chili added. I can imagine that in Korea they used to ferment the cabbage in an earth hole, though

Yenni,

green tea indeed isn't herb tea. Did you look at www.scdrecipe.com/recipes-snack/

Maybe you could try something like beef jerky or onion rings (you could substitute the almond and nut flours with coconut flour)?

If you don't find a substitute for dairy, maybe you could lacto ferment veggies in order to get some probiotics.

Good luck!!

Mia

Sherry,

thanks about the honey. Anyway - whatever it is, I can tolerate modest amounts of it, so I'm just happy as it is

No, I didn't mean the results concerning celiac - that was diagnosed more than one year ago already, so I'm gluten free since august 2007. But as the problems didn't get better but worse being gluten free, there has to be something else which my doc thinks may be ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease. If it is, one or two month's SCD for sure won't have healed a 20 year damage, so I will have something I can work with.

Fig girl,

yesterday I made the pumpkin pie porridge, too, but added two apples which had to be used up, and left out the carrot. It didn't taste far as good as with one apple and carrot!

What is this electrolyte drink you mentioned? Maybe it would help with muscle cramps and pain, too? I'd try it, then, because the magnesium and kalium stuff I tried was with starch and lactose and just made me sick.

The appointment with the dr. really was good. Funny thing - he's a friend of mine and I always thought he didn't take me seriously because he knows me and knows that I'm a bit of a hippie kind alternative with strange ideas about natural medicine and diet. But he did take me seriously - he thought I'd refuse conservative medical diagnosis because I'm used to handle everything myself... There you are, it's all about communication.

The tortillas I didn't try yet but from the looks the recipes sound very good. So do the crackers. If you need a recipe, I'll write it down here. Those recipes are from some SCD cookbooks I found at amazon.

Mia

Thanks, ArtGirl

I also came to the conclusion not to go back to grains - not even gluten free grains. It's no more than a month now that I'm on SCD, and I don't think that a whole life long damage will be vanished after six weeks. So if I get an appointment in two or so weeks, there should be still enough damage to see...

Paula,

there are great recipes for mock starch tortillas and chips, made with almond or nut flour After a while you'll probably find that they're even better!

Hi ArtGirl,

glad you like the porridge - and yes, it's fantastic with yoghurt, too! Absolute comfort food for cold days.

I thought about the grains, yes, and at the moment I'm discussing with myself whether I should eat them again before I have the appointment with the GI or not. I already know the celiac for sure, so that's not necessary. Actually I didn't want to say "celiac disease" but crohn's disease, the system changed my typed "celiac disease" into celiac disease

In fact the dr. told me that crohn's can also cause fatigue, so if the blood and urine tests don't show any infection of the kidneys, I just want to make sure if it really is an intestinal / digestive disorder which troubles me. The consequences are keeping SCD anyway I already like this diet more than any I tried before!

You don't frighten, Ali. You're right. We have an experimental GM corn field nearby - placed directly beside the fields of an organic farmer's!!! My dr. whom I saw today is a spare-time beekeeper and he doesn't laugh at all about these GM fields.

By the way I told him about the SCD I'm on and he found it sounded reasonable and very healthy. But - and that's what I'm wondering about now, as a beekeeper he knows a lot about honey (I already had a jar of his honey last year) and he told me that honey does contain a disaccharide, i.e. saccharose, the combination of fructose and glucose. Now why is it allowed? I thought it was fructose and glucose as monosaccharides, but he assured me that it's a disaccharide. Hm.

Anyway he sent me to a gastroenterologist to finally check if maybe I have uc or celiac disease. I can't tell you how glad I am not to have to feel so stupid any longer... I'll get the results about the kidney infections on thursday.

The most frightening thing concerning the GM plants is that you cannot prevent them from spreading. Not only that the enterprises who hold the patents on the GM plants demand payment from accidentally contaminated farmers but no farmer can help being contaminated either. So even if you buy from local farmers you can't be sure about the stuff you get!

Hi Sherry and Ali,

thanks for the apple cider / juice info. Usually I don't like apple juice or cider but a friend of ours who is a hunter gave us some game which I wanted to make an apple cider stew of. It's a British recipe, Ali , so it indeed had to be the alcoholic kind I think I'll try to do it with the American kind - the alcohol would cook away anyway.

Before I started the SCD I had bloating, too, when I had pumpkin, Sherry. Strangely I could tolerate it just cooked and mashed with carrots and apples, no spices added, just a little coconut oil.

You said that you already eat yoghurt, don't you? Maybe it's the yoghurt which makes the bloating? Perhaps try one day without it? I do hope for you to come round this soon!

Paula,

pele is right, this diet is not nearly as strange as it seems. The only thing is that you have to make a lot of things from scratch - no fast food

April,

you seem to have a great chiropractor! Good for you - that will be exciting.

Everyone,

today I have an appointment with my dr. to check my kidneys, if there's still some kind of infection. I still feel so weak and tired sometimes that I barely can climb the stairs, and I know this is no side effect of the diet because I had that before the diet, too. It was gone after I took antibiotics in April and I felt great until about July when my digestive problems started again and got worse every day. Now with the diet the digestive problems are much better, but I still have muscle pain in the thighs, and all my muscles are exhausted as soon as I just squeeze a lemon and half of the day I feel like I'd faint the next moment.

I know this sounds weird, but I do feel so stupid - except for beeing thin I never look ill or even as exhausted as I feel, and for some reason even if I have an infection my blood doesn't show any sign of that. In spring the blood was perfectly normal, but then luckily there were bacteria in the urine. Now there are no bacteria which can be made visible by dipsticks, but I still feel like in spring when the infection was diagnosed. It's not only that you feel completely foolish when the dr. tells you that there is nothing to be found - it's so frustrating not to know what else to do.

Sorry for whining - I just hope to have any result which I can work with.

Mia

New question: I found that "apple cider" is legal - what is meant by apple cider?? In German apple cider is something containing alcohol (2 to 4 percent). I don't think that's what is meant? Is it the freshly made apple juice in the pre-alcoholic stage? Unfiltered apple juice?

We do have this kind of natural style apple juice but also filtered and pasteurized apple juice with no sugar added. Would that be legal, too?

Mia

Ali,

I love Naomi's site, too! Her story how she came to SCD sounds pretty much like my own... I'm totally addicted to the pumpkin pie porridge - instead of almond flour I add two tbsp of coconut flour which tastes wonderful.

Sherry,

perhaps you try that pumpkin pie porridge first if you want to try squash? It's without eggs and honey, just pumpkin, carrot and a bit cooked apple. You don't even have to add almond flour. This was one of the first things I added to my carrot soup and chicken intro.

Mia

Ali,

I'm pretty sure that those beasties are the reason for not getting satisfied. In the beginning I never had the feeling to be full either. I do feel full now sometimes but get hungry again soon after. Very often I still feel weak and somewhat empty, like a car without fuel. Or maybe hollow is the right word. But if I listen to my body there is a clear feeling of nutritional satisfaction. That is, when I ask myself if it really is eating that I want, I come to the conclusion that it's not. So if I just tell myself that I don't have to eat now, after a while I get over this fake hunger.

ArtGirl,

if you already feel better after removing refined sugar from your diet then you'll certainly come to like SCD The foods I have now are so much tastier than the store bought trash...

Mia

Ali,

maybe it's easier to have salads when you mix them with something warm. I'm a southerner - my dad came from Romania - and so I'm freezing with any temperatur which is below 25 degrees celsius So I figured out that I'm happy with salads to which I add something cooked: fried mushrooms, for example, or grilled chicken or shrimp, baked pumpkin... At the moment even cold SCD yoghurt is too cold for me, so I mix it with some honey, banana and then top it with cooked apple and raisins like I would do with hot cereal.

Or I prepare chicken-carrot soup and dump one or two ladles of the hot soup into a dish with raw veggies so that the veggies don't get cooked but are slightly warm. Like hot gravy with raw veggies.

ArtGirl,

one of the most important things with SCD is the logistics You have to prepare enough things like yoghurt, stock, muffins, cookies etc. so that you always have something ready and don't need to cheat. Due to my work I cannot stay in the kitchen all day but have to go out very often; so I always have bananas, apples, dried fruit, muffins, boiled eggs, carrots and grape juice with me. Next thing I'll do will be cookies which I can stock without freezing. It's better now, but in the beginning I needed to eat something each hour, so I had some really desperate moments until I got organized with all that stuff. Now I have everything I need, and I must say that all those things taste so good and I feel so well fed and satisfied that I don't miss the SCD illegal foods.

Good luck

Mia