Seeking2012

Here's my attempt. The numbers are mine, and not meant to refer to the sequence of your questions.

[1]

"When antigens (foreign substances that invade the body) are detected, several types of cells work together to recognize them and respond. These cells trigger the B lymphocytes to produce antibodies, specialized proteins that lock onto specific antigens.

"Once produced, these antibodies continue to exist in a person's body, so that if the same antigen is presented to the immune system again, the antibodies are already there to do their job. So if someone gets sick with a certain disease, like chickenpox, that person typically doesn't get sick from it again.

"This is also how immunizations prevent certain diseases. An immunization introduces the body to an antigen in a way that doesn't make someone sick, but does allow the body to produce antibodies that will then protect the person from future attack by the germ or substance that produces that particular disease.

"Although antibodies can recognize an antigen and lock onto it, they are not capable of destroying it without help. That's the job of the T cells, which are part of the system that destroys antigens that have been tagged by antibodies or cells that have been infected or somehow changed. (Some T cells are actually called "killer cells.") T cells also are involved in helping signal other cells (like phagocytes) to do their jobs.

"Antibodies also can neutralize toxins (poisonous or damaging substances) produced by different organisms. Lastly, antibodies can activate a group of proteins called complement that are also part of the immune system. Complement assists in killing bacteria, viruses, or infected cells.

"All of these specialized cells and parts of the immune system offer the body protection against disease. This protection is called immunity."

SOURCE: Open Original Shared Link

[2]

"Under certain situations, gliadin (digested gluten) can get to the lamina propria, where it will it will be deamidated (roughly: altered) by tissue transglutaminae (an enzyme). This is a very important step because deamidated gliadine can combine with HLA DQ2 and HLA-DQ8 (genetic markers) on the antigen-presenting cell (macrophages and B cells strategically located in places places antigens are likely to penetrate, including the GI tract) and then will be presented to the T cell, which will secrete cytokines."

From a grand rounds lecture, by Dr Hasan H. Hasan from a couple of years ago, who in turn got much of his information from Fasano (I think). I found it on iTunes U.

[3]

"Patients with Celiac disease create antibodies to gliadin, but these antibodies can also be found in other conditions and in normal people."

Celiac Disease: A Hidden Epidemic (not that much help if you ask me!)

[4]

But how did the immune system get confused and think that the "self" cells were antigens or pathogens?

Picking Dr Hasan back up again (and this is just a slightly educated guess to your question):

" The deamidated gliadin has high affinity for HLA2 and HLA8 (I think he means HLA DQ2, etc), which you have if you have Celiac disease. They are both on the antigen-presenting cell. Will be presented to the T cell. The T cell secretes cytokines which cause pathological changes we see in celiac disease. At the same time, it will also cause stimulation and expansion of B cells and B cells will produce the antibodies which we screen for when we try to diagnose celiac disease."

All of that does help me understand the subject better (I hope). What it sounds like to me, in very basic language, is this:

1. The presense of gliadin causes the intestine's epithelial cells to overproduce zonulin (why does this happen?)

2. Zonulin is a protein that causes the tight junctions between epithelial cells to open up.

3. Due to this opening, gliadin particles are allowed to reach the lamina propria, which is known to be an area that produces lots of antibodies.

4. While in the lamina propria, the body attempts to break down gliadin further because it is a long chain protein molecule that cannot be used by the body in its original amidated state. The enzyme tissue transglutamase deamidates (breaks down partly) the gliadin protein.

5. In people with the HLA-DQ2 and/or HLA-DQ8 halotype, their cells will recognize the deamidated (broken-down gliadin) protein as an antigen, and begin producing antibodies against it. Perhaps this is because those people who evolved the HLA-DQ2 and/or HLA-DQ8 halotype long ago were selected for some other reason (and the antibodies they make against self tissue were meant to attack a different antigen that looks like the self tissue) that has nothing to do with gliadin; perhaps it gave them an advantage in their original environment. Perhaps someone can clue me in as to the reason that the HLA-DQ2/DQ8 halotype would have been naturally selected and in what environment it would have been selected.

6. For some unknown/unclear (to me) reason, the body will then also produce antibodies against the enzyme that helped break down gliadin protein (tissue transglutaminase). Perhaps someone else can figure this part out.

All of this is just about convincing me to go into the field of biology; it is quite fascinating to me.

Dr. Alessia Fassano seems to believe that one of the solutions to fix this problem is a medication that suppresses the release of zonulin. Although this would allow people to eat gluten-containing foods without a reaction, it would also create a dangerous situation in which the body would not be able to send viruses and bacteria down to the lamina propria for destruction (unless I'm presenting this too simplistically).

Any comments/corrections/thoughts on this?

...anti-gliadin antibodies are present in the breast milk of all women who consume gluten (even women without celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity).

Are they present in women who have been 100% gluten free for over 2 years?

I have done a lot of testing with my diet and with a blood glucose monitor I recently got to see if I had diabetes or pre-diabetes. It turns out I have very healthy blood sugar levels. A1C=5.2% and fasting is in the mid 80s to low 90s range, and 2-hour postprandials are 105-110.

I feel horrible when I eat a diet high in carbs (over 50g per meal) and I feel much better when I eat a diet low in carbs (less than 50g per day). So maybe it has to do with carbs. But I am going to do the gluten-free testing in a few months to see how that goes for me.

Ok I've thought about this more deeply and now I have all kinds of new questions.

1. Does the fact that the body CAN make an antibody against gluten inherently mean the body is coded to recognize gluten as an antigen (as in, you are born thinking that gliadin is an antigen)? Or does it mean that the body taught itself later on how to make an antibody against gliadin?

2. When the immune system produces antibodies against gliadin, is this a reaction of a "confused" immune system which mistakenly thinks that gliadin is an antigen? Is the immune system wrong about this? What tells the immune system that something is an antigen?

3. The immune system, as we all know, does make mistakes. For example, when it makes killer cells that attack the "self" cells in an autoimmune response, I would consider that to be a confused mistake that the immune system makes. But how did the immune system get confused and think that the "self" cells were antigens or pathogens?

4. How does the immune system make antibodies against a cell it thinks is an antigen or a pathogen? Does this information need to be pre-coded into our DNA, or can the immune system make antibodies against anything and everything that it thinks is an invader? What are the restrictions and limitations on this?

Ok so I've been thinking about this. If your body is making AGA-IgG or AGA-IgA, doesn't that mean that your body is having an immune reaction to gluten?

AGA-IgG and AGA-IgA are antibodies. Antibodies are products that the body makes in response to what the body thinks is a foreign invader that needs to be killed off. It's an immune response.

If your body is creating ANY sort of immune response to gluten, doesn't that mean you need to stop eating gluten? Long-term low-level immune activity over the long-term could lead to autoimmune diseases or put the body in a state of oxidative stress, right?

What percentage of the population makes AGA-IgG/AGA-IgA antibodies?

I'm wondering what the most delicious flour alternative is to wheat flour. I've heard of almond flour and coconut flour. Are there others? Which one tastes the best? Which one is the lowest in carbs and sugars?

Thanks

Ok so I just finished calling every "community" health clinic--which basically means "free" or "sliding scale" clinic--in my county. None of them offer Celiac testing. Even the hospital labs that I just called don't directly test Celiac--they send them out to another lab to do it. WOW huh????

And Celiac testing isn't even covered by Medicare in most cases--which I don't have anyway, but looked it up out of curiosity.

So my only real chance at getting a Celiac test seems to be to order it myself through one of the above-mentioned links. That's gonna hurt to the tune of $200-$300. I don't have it but my fiance has offered to pay it for me. I hate to ask so much of him, and it will probably come out negative due to the fact that blood testing for celiac disease isn't very accurate...

But my sister has been diagnosed with celiac disease. So I should do it.

NCGS = non-celiac gluten sensitivity

Ok, so I have been experimenting with what I eat and how I feel afterwards. The other day I ate 2 cups of Open Original Shared Link and I felt absolutely horrible. I became irritable, cranky, fatigued, had a lot of trouble making decisions and concentrating, and just felt "woozy." This effect lasted for 6 hours, with the worst of it occuring about 1-3 hours after eating it. My fiance said my eyes looked puffy as though I had cried but I certainly had not cried. I had not been rubbing my eyes either.

Then I skipped a few days of the bran flakes, but still had some foods containing gluten. I felt better.

And then I had 1 cup of the same cereal this morning and I feel irritable, cranky, fatigued, and have trouble concentrating. I'm also experiencing dry eyes and blurry vision.

It's difficult to know if this effect is being caused by the gluten or the carbohydrates. I have posted a list of my other sympotoms on a diabetes forum (can I reveal which forum this is?) which sound a lot like diabetes but I don't have high blood sugar.

A1C = 5.2% and serum blood glucose 4 hours after a bowl of cereal was 107.

What do you guys think? By the way I have not done any celiac disease or NCGS testing at this point.

There are free screenings in some areas. Chicago does one in October. I sawone on the Calender on this site for florida. MIght see if your local Celiac support group has any info.

thank you; I will do that today

I was going to do this test. How important is AGA?

Where can I get a complete test?

Can I get an AGA test at another lab? Do they need to be compared to other blood tests?

The AGA-IgG and AGA-IgA are mostly used to test for non-Celiac gluten sensitivity, as these are the antibodies that go after gliadin. There was a recent paper done that showed that there is a separate, distinct condition which exists separate from Celiac Disease (but involves many of the same symptoms as Celiac Disease) and is called gluten sensitivity.

Gluten Sensitivity: The body produces an immune response, but not an autoimmune response, to gliadin. Autoimmune response means the body is attacking itself (thereby destroying the intestinal tissue/villi/etc), whereas an immune response just means that the body is attacking the "foreign invader."

Gluten sensitivity would mean your body is producing antibodies against gliadin but that it's not sending antibodies after your own tissues or tearing up your gut.

Whereas the full Celiac panel would most likely not include this aspect of the test.

The Gluten Sensitivity blood test costs $109 at Open Original Shared Link just type "gliadin" in the search bar and it comes up.

Hi guys,

I'm new to the site and forum. My sister has Celiac Disease (tested positive) and her numbers have been slowly and steadily decreasing over the past year as she has been on the gluten-free diet.

My other immediate family members have all been tested negative, but I think all they got was the tTG one. I want the full panel but it costs $299 through one of the sites where you can order your own blood tests without going through a doctor.

My local community health clinic does not offer Celiac testing.

Where can I go if I'm poor and uninsured to pay for Celiac testing and also Gliadin Antibodies (AGA-IgA and AGA-IgG), which are NOT included anymore in standard Celiac tests?

Thanks guys!!