Michi8

Typical canned response from GM. I got a similar type of response from Kraft when I asked why they recently removed their webpage that listed gluten-free & DF products. I keep sending them my email with the specific question, and they keep dancing around it...I think I'm going to keep emailing until they respond properly.

Michelle

I do, however, want to let you know that my original post - though correct at the time - now needs to be fixed. My manager, though I'm sure well meaning in his trying to keep me "up-to-date" with the changes, was wrong. I'm not sure what he heard and from who - about the gluten-free menu being chucked. It was, for a short time, ripped up and thrown away... and I guess it was because of inaccuracies and ingredients changing. We just recieved, along with new regular menus, new gluten-free menus. However, they still state, at the bottom in small print, that they cannot guarantee that there isn't a risk. (Not in those words...but the point is taken.)

Thank you for updating on that point. It's nice to hear that your restaurant will continue to provide gluten-free options.

So, just because they're willing to let you know which items can be made gluten-free... doesn't mean there's no chance of you getting sick. We all know that going into the restaurant (ANY restaurant)....so I still stand by my opinion that it is pointless and wrong to complain about being glutened (especially on a corporate level).

I still stand by my opinion that is it never wrong for the customer to complain tactfully comment (I think this is a better choice of words than to "complain") about a problem with service or product. Improvements cannot be made without input. If a company decides that it's better to drop a service/product than to put effort into improving it, then it's still better than providing a service/product that is inadequate.

Michelle

Ever since I told my mother I had arthritis in my foot she's been pushing me to get a bone scan.

I'm only 33, and even my dr remarked that it was odd that I should have osteoarthritis at this age without a previous injury.

What do you think?

If you have celiac and related malabsorption issues, then your bone health can be affected. The test itself is very quick and easy.

Michelle

The one I got actually does have maltodextrin in it. Where can you get pure stevia?

The one I have is Herbal Select brand. I bought it at Walmart in the supplement section of the pharmacy. Its ingredients list: rice maltodextrin, stevia powdered leaf extracts (stevia rebaudiana), silica.

Michelle

I just sent an e-mail. However, I am a tad fatalistic, I don't think they care what we think. They are a huge corporation and we are a small group. I still think my voice needed to be heard. It is up to them to listen.

Hez

I think you're right...they don't care about what a small group thinks...celiacs are not their target market. Their decisions about ingredients has little to do with meeting the needs of those with restricted diets, and everything to do with the bottom line. Looking at GM's Canadian website, their big selling point right now is "whole grains," of which wheat is a huge part. The costs of ingredients from suppliers likely has a lot to do with the changes in ingredients as well. However, they still need to hear from celiacs about this issue.

Michelle

I am really freaked out. I have the worst doctor in the world and am just beside myself with worry. I have a rash on my buttcheck. I have been wondering the last month or so about celiac. Terrible gas, bloating and alternating constipation/diarrhea. I have been trying to limit the wheat the last few weeks and the gas seems somewhat better. Then I develop this rash about a week ago on my buttcheek.

Went to the Dr today and told him all of this. Showed him my rash. He seems to think it is HSV II (herpes simplex II/otherwise known as genital herpes). My husband of 10 years does not have any rashes or has never had one. He swears he hasn't strayed. I did notice the rash about 3 days after going to the tanning bed. I have looked online at pictures of DH and HSVII on the buttock and they are quite similar.

In a nutshell, I really just want your opinions on your rashes. Are yours widespread or localized? Mine is 1 round spot the size of a quarter.

I insisted on a blood test from my MD for HSVII after my appointment and I had time to digest everyting mentally. I HAD TO TELL HIM THERE WAS A BLOOD TITER TO FIND OUT IF IT IS IN YOUR BLOOD! I work at a hospital and knew this why didn't he???

I am getting a new dr by the way. Any help you have would be appreciated.

Have you seen any pics of DH to compare? Check out this site about DH (has photo library): Open Original Shared Link DH can look like herpes, but is unrelated to it. Hope you're able to quickly sort out the source of your rash.

Michelle

Be very careful to add just a very little stevia at a time. if you put too much in it tastes really bad.

You've got that right! I put one of those packets of stevia in my coffee, and it rendered it undrinkable. Yuck! I'd like to give it a shot again, but with the "pure" stevia...in a very small dosage...I like my coffee sweet, but not that sweet!

As for Dr Mercola - I can't even spend 2 minutes on that site and actually think he's legit. That site screams "profiteering shyster" to me. Some people talk about him like he's G-d and all he says is the gospel. That scares me. More power to you if you've found stuff on there that's helped you - That's great. Everyone deserves to find things that work for them to have a healthier life. I'm sure much of what he says holds some truth and some value and some of his theories are dead-on (especially his advocacy of gluten-free diets). But I would take everything I read on there with a grain of salt... I think he gives a bad name to natural health practitioners.

Any website has to be read with a grain of salt...after all, you can't believe everything you read! Besides, I'm totally disgusted that I have to give up my email addy to read an article on Dr Mercola's (or anyone else's) website. No information is worth getting spam email.

Michelle

I'm curious about the need for a bone scan.

I've just assumed that I'm vitamin/calcium/iron deficient and have taken steps to increase these and I think most people on the board do the same. If a bone scan shows that your bones are more porous than they should be is there anything you can do about it?

I'd expect that having a bone density test done would be helpful to first confirm there is an issue with bone health and, second, to have a baseline for monitoring progression of disease. If there is significant bone loss, then it can be treated more agressively than with diet alone...including supplements/meds and increasing weight bearing excercise.

Michelle

I'm NOT talking about talking to the manager and server to get your food fixed - cooked up, recooked or remade. That, of course, should be done...and no manager I know of has a problem with that. It's complaining to the Outback company in itself....writing a letter to the company, calling them, etc... that's what gets things like MY restaurant's gluten-free menus taken away! That's what I'm frustrated about! They took those away for a reason....probably too many complaints to the offices! What on earth is a business man in a suit going to do to fix the Celiac awareness in a restaurant, though he owns, does not work in! Please, by all means, let your individual Outback's manager know your concerns and maybe he'll work on fixing them for you (and most likely - only for you...since you're probably the only one who visits that outback who has celiac). That's his job...I agree. But my manager does not have the "jurisdiction" to take away the gluten-free menu that is corporate wide - that came from a higher "power".....which means the complaints also went to that higher "power."

I serve people for hours on end when I work....and do my best to make sure they're food comes out how they ordered it. But for some server (and even manager) that knows nothing of the complexities of the Celiac diet... they couldn't begin to guess that they can't just remove the toast from the grilled shrimp w/out any problems. They don't understand that from the beginning! And in Outback many many servers run different tables food... we're not just responsible for our tables. So, really, it's your server's fault if you had them WRITE DOWN the instructions... and they failed to do it anyway. It's not AT ALL the company's fault. They are just trying to keep themselves adaquatly staffed so there is someone to wait on your table.

It sounds to me like your speculating as to why the menu got removed from your location. It may be worth you asking head office what it going on. Perhaps the menu was removed because your particular location was unable to properly comply with ensuring foods were gluten free, and so head office received complaints about it? Regardless, it is well within a customer's rights to contact head office about problems with a restaurant within the chain. If there is a chain-wide policy in place that is a problem, then of course a customer would contact head office about that too.

Michelle

Yes, half the effort is better than none. Unless the restaurant serves only 100% gluten-free food....they cannot guarantee that your food will be 100% safe - gluten-free menu or not! What OSI is doing is giving you the opportunity to see what they serve that contains no gluten - they are not guaranteeing that you don't have the risk of CC. (Just read the fine print ON their gluten-free menu!!) They are trying to be helpful. It's not fair for us to complain all the time to them about getting sick - they are doing the best they can to help a tiny minority out. And never forget that we ARE the minority. It is not their fault (or anyone's) that we have Celiac Disease....we can't place the blame on them for doing their jobs in a busy restaurant that never claimed to be 100% gluten-free in the first place. They have busy restaurants to run...and chances are they might serve One celiac person once a week. Most companies try their hardest to make sure you have a good experience....that doesn't mean they can keep you from ever getting sick - especially if you're really sensitive. I'm still sticking to my opinion that complaining about it does no good!

The customer is paying the bill, and so has every right to complain about an unsatisfactory meal. That goes for everyone, not just those with celiac disease. If the restaurant chooses not to listen to customer comments, then they may end up losing those customers. It's great that some restaurants offer menu choices for specific diets (gluten-free, low-fat, etc), and they need to hear feedback to ensure that those menu items are indeed providing for the restrictions of that diet.

Michelle

Yes, they said I will definitely need a ride home. Man, one girl walked out after having laser and all of us in the waiting room felt her pain. She walked in normally and had difficulty walking on the way out. She must have had a large area of her cervix done. I'm glad yours went smoothly.

Hmm, I don't recall having difficulty walking afterward, but it was a number of years ago. The cervix has no nerve endings so the pain isn't necessarily local to the lasered site...it was more like heavy cramping, but I believe they gave a local anesthetic anyway (I had no anesthetic with the original colposcopy.) With the laser treatment, there wasn't a huge amount of bleeding...it certainly didn't last long...and they used a tampon to help stop the bleeding. It may be different with LEEP though.

Michelle

Beware of DASANI it is NOT WATER. They migt telll you it's water. But read the ingredients.

Try DISTILLED WATER if you are reactive to spring water...

Some say that distilled water is not safe to drink on an ongoing basis, because it lacks any type of minerals. I prefer not to drink our tap water since it is treated with chloramine (chlorine + ammonia) and fluoride. I drink reverse osmosis water at home instead.

Michelle

my daughter's birth story is a horror story of sorts... after pushing for THREE HOURS and trying every position in the handbook, I was begging them to get her out no matter what it took... the Dr. was too busy with delivering her BEST FRIEND'S baby in the next room... when she finally came in it was OMG we have to do an emergency c/s right now... when my daughter was delivered she was blue, wasn't breathing and had abrasions on her scalp from scraping against my pelvic bones for so long... She had a big head and my pelvic bones were too small and she was facing sunny side up instead of back so I had back labor to boot... fortunately they got her breathing and she's fine now but by God I tried to deliver her vaginally... hubby has a big head and I should have known I was in trouble! Plus because I was so overweight because of undiagnosed Celiac complications they assumed that I had big hips and a big birth canal. Just not so. This gives me the willies just typing this out but this is my experience... on the other hand my sister had two elective c-sections which totally blew me away... I couldn't understand that concept. Actually planning a c-section... well, the first one was because her son was breech, and the second one was because the Dr. refused to do a V-BAC but still... I'm the "natural" one the "hippie" so to speak and anything that reeks of medical intervention makes me crazy. I wanted to do homebirth with midwives but because I had such a complicated pregnancy and had a history with miscarriages they convinced me I'd be better off in a hospital... knowing now that I tried to do it without intervention and couldn't scares the hell out of me of what would have happened if I'd had my way and tried to have her at home??? Since both of us nearly died in the hospital what would have happened at home? She was stuck and not coming out not even with the nurses ramming their arms in me up to the elbows trying to turn her around or pull her out... could a midwife have done any better? I don't think so. Admitedly my experience is extreme but I'm thankful for the c-section and I think it saved both of our lives.

I don't know if a midwife could have "done any better," but she likely would have been supporting you during labour unlike your preoccupied doctor, and would have known when it was time to transfer to hospital and/or consult a doctor. Though it sounds like hospital was a good choice given your history...there is a point where midwifes must defer to a doctor, especially with certain complications of pregnancies. When it comes to midwifery, the standard of care is different/better. To choose a midwife is not to put yourself into a risky situation...they are trained birth professionals, and many midwifes also have experience as L&D nurses to boot. BTW, they would have also known that the weight of the mother doesn't change their bone structure (hip size or pelvic outlet.)

Michelle

I think midwives should be present at every birth - not just home births. I think they recognize fetal distress sooner than doctors. In a high risk delivery - they would be even more valuable as they support the mom and the baby in the hours afterwards too. .. they would have the knowledge and the TIME to explain things and calm mom - instead of a 5 min visit by a doc (and 3 mins is gloving up for the exam)...

There are situations that occur during delivery that are not predcitable and that is why many opt to deliver in hospital. Ther are hospitals that allow midwives to attend to a birth in hospital ... and then medical help is right there if they call the doctor... if intervention becomes necessary.

I agree. I think midwives should be the standard caregiver for all women, and doctors brought in only as needed. They are cheaper, but provide a more in depth service to women...longer prenatal visits, get to know the mother and her needs/desires very well, and are more supportive through the process of labour. To have midwives for most births would go a long way to lowering the primary c/s rate. I think a Doula is important as well to help during labour (especially in a hospital...a midwife in hospital has her attention elsewhere much of the time due to hospital protocol, unlike in a homebirth.) I had a midwife for my second birth...when I needed the c/s she was there to support me during the surgery, and to advocate for me during and afterward (plus she took some great pictures.)

I personally think homebirth is the best choice, but it is not for everyone...you need to be very comfortable and confident with the natural process of birth.

Michelle

Child birth should be the kind of experience that is welcoming to that new little person. I hate how the medical world has made it a procedure instead of a natural process. I am thankful that the hospital and docs are there for women who need them, when there are complications. But, not every birth has to be text book. Every woman is different and every birth is different. And one last thing......I hate it when the doc's say they delivered the baby. All they do is stand there and wait. My husband caught both of our daughters, but I delivered them.

Lollie

It's really a shame how a natural process has been so medicalized. Hospitals and doctors are important for those who need additional medical care, but for a simple, healthy pregnancy and birth there is little need for medical intervention. However, a midwife does bring all the necessary tools for emergency situations, and can quickly assess whether a trip to hospital is necessary.

And it's so true about doctors doing nothing more than wait. I was so pleased to be able to deliver my own daughter (it was a waterbirth.) DH "caught" her head, and then I got to catch her as she slipped out and I immediately brought her to my chest. I got to see her and discover she was a girl before anyone else...she just lay in my arms and breathed...it was so peaceful. The midwives then did all the hard work of helping me through the last stage of birth, helping us to bed, checking my daughter over, bringing me some food and then doing all the cleanup. Nothing better than just settling into bed with baby for a good sleep right afterward.

Michelle

Hello, I'm back from my holiday. Has anyone ever had a LEEP procedure for abnormal cervical cells? I just had my colposcopy and most likely the doctor will do a LEEP after she gets the results. I would like to hear about other peoples experiences with this procedure.

I haven't had the LEEP procedure, but did have laser surgery for cervical dysplasia (LEEP is the newer technology.) The laser procedure didn't take too long, and recovery didn't take long either. I had my husband come with me for moral support (I was pretty upset with having to have the laser surgery.) The doctor used a camera & monitor during the procedure, and so I was able to watch as well...it was actually kind of interesting. If I recall correctly, there was some minor cramping when the local anesthetic wore off, but tylenol took care of that. Within couple of days I was good as new.

Here is some more info on LEEP: Open Original Shared Link

Michelle

A couple questions about the endoscopy/colonoscopy procedure. My son's GI doc's office won't give me all the details til a week before, and it's a month away. I am curious NOW, lol! So if your child has had this done, could you please share some of the details with me? Oh, Isaac is 5 years old...Thanks!

1) What is the prep for it like?

2) How do most kids react afterwards?

3) Any uncomfortable side effects?

4) How long (typically) til the results are in?

Any advice on how to explain it to my son? I told him about it and he started complaining that he didn't want to do it...

Jennifer

They won't give you info until a week before? My gastroscopy (upper GI endoscopy) was booked for end of November, and I was given the information packet and consent forms when we booked (mid-August!) Heck, I have the info packet for my colonoscopy too, and it's not scheduled until March! (Yeah, long wait for elective procedures here.)

Here is a site that has basics on endoscopy: Open Original Shared Link and basics on colonoscopy: Open Original Shared Link For the colonoscopy your son will likely need to go through a cleansing procedure (done at home) before the appt. For both procedures you'll be expected to avoid certain meds and refrain from eating & drinking for some time before your scheduled appointment.

Michelle

My sister couldn't deliver vag. She's 5'2'', with a narrow pelvis. She had two 11lb babies, and never even went into labor with either of them, because they couldn't drop far enough. She never even dialated. She did not have gestational diabetes, we just have huge babies in the family. My grandfather was over 11lbs, and my brother's twins were 6lbs EACH (they were vag).

My sister did have one baby that was "normal" sized at 9 lbs, and even went into labor! She opted for the c-section, though. She wasn't supposed to get pregnant again, because the first two took such a toll on her body. The second one nearly broke her hip, and the third one gave her a hernia. She's just too little to have such giants. I'm not looking forward to pregnancy, I'm 4 inches taller than her!

It's a shame that your sister's experiences would make you worried about pregnancy. Every person and pregnancy is different. A narrow pelvis is also not an indicator of a body's ability to birth, because ligaments loosen and are designed to stretch...I'm only 5'3" and have a narrow pelvis too, and had an almost 10 pounder with little trouble. The bigger issue for me was since I'm so short, I don't have a lot of room to carry big babies, and tend to have malpresentations (breech, asynclitic, compound presentations)...plus I get as big as a house during pregnancy.

Michelle

WOW...I hadn't thought about the antibiotic thing before...but it would stand to reason that it could cause a problem!! AND the fact they they "fortify" your breastmilk in the NICU...or at least they did with ours to help with caloric intake.....hummmm...hadn't thought of that one until just now!

If you consider even a full-term infant has to develop GI flora, giving the wrong foods or antibotics upsets the normal development of that flora...a premature infant has even more work to develop a healthy system. And colostrum is an important first food to help develop the GI tract while providing a huge boost to develop an infant's immune system.

Michelle

I'm in Ontario, where pretty much across the province our healthcare system is now deeply flawed. Our rate of C sections is also up considerably (I was lucky enough to have two great, uncomplicated natural deliveries) and the very worst part about this is the fact that because there's no money in our system, patients are being pushed out of the hospital FAR too early, often at great risk to their health. My girlfriend had a complicated C section last winter and was sent home 48 hours later. She ended up back in ER a week later...no surprise. This is a terrible state of affairs, and with C sections costing the government a whole lot more than a natural birth, it amazes me that our rate is so high.

I think that healthcare is flawed in most provinces. Alberta won't fund midwives, although the studies show they can save the healthcare system a lot of money. OTOH, when a woman hires a midwife here, her money works well for her, since the government has less say in what the midwife can and can't do. I had a less than positive midwife experience when I lived in BC...attempted a homebirth VBAC for my second birth, but the midwives weren't really acting in my best interest and were eager to move me to hospital when I found I wasn't comfortable staying at home. Then the cascade of inventions started. I believe the fact that they're gov't funded, and I had to agree to be a part of the homebirth study that the protocols they followed weren't truly favourable for VBAC.

In terms of recovering from c/s, the decision of when to go home should be looked at in a case-by-case manner. 48 hours may be too little time for returning home after a primary c/s, but 4 days felt like an eternity with my secondary c/s and I probably would have done better emotionally if I could have left after 2 days.

Michelle

My youngest was born almost six weeks early due to prom.

Is there a connection?

There could be. I remember reading that vitamin C intake helps strengthen the amniotic sac. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that malabsorption of vitamins and minerals (such as with celiac disease) may make the sac more susceptible to prom.

Michelle

Please hear me say that I have no idea if being a preemie is related to Celiac...I would think that is isn't necessarily if you read some of the previous posts. I was just wondering...because our Celiac was born a little early and had a life threatening condition...we should have lost him WAY before birth and his condition is considered a "mid-line" problem and connected to Downs. He turned out fine. I was just wondering though if the "trauma" of being born early and needing extra help or growing time would be enough to trigger a babies immune system with Celiac? I am convinced that our 2nd sons problem was fixed and yet aggravated by his surgery after birth.

Our last baby decided there was too much fun stuff going on out here and decided to come at 34 weeks. I am concerned about him having celiac but will not have him tested yet. He is just 7 months. But the other two (we have 4 boys) were a little early and induced on due date for low fluid levels...who knows...it is amazing what we really do not know aobut this sometimes quiet disease.

Given that celiac tendency is hereditary, and it is suspected that there is a trigger for celiac becoming active, I'd guess that early trauma could very well be that trigger. Personally, I also suspect that feeding a premature baby foods other than breastmilk, and giving (necessary) antibiotics for infection may also be considered trauma to the GI tract.

Michelle

It surprises me that you had midwives that were willing to do VBAC after 2 c-sections. Here (in Utah) they won't let you do VBAC after 2 c sections because of the increased risk of tearing your uterus. Midwives won't touch you.

Unfortunately, the medical establishment has too much control over midwives, and in turn, too much control over a woman's choice over how and where to birth.

I live in Alberta, and there were no medical reasons to force me into a hospital. I had textbook recoveries from both my cesareans and had healthy pregnancies each time. The risk of uterine rupture is extremely small, and there are signs to watch for in terms of scar separation long before a rupture occurs. An undrugged mother will experience signs of pain during labour (and probably before labour) that would indicate a need to transfer to hospital. Note that induction with prostaglandins increases the risk of rupture, and should never be used during VBAC. Induction is never used in a homebirth. A VBAC is still a safer birth for both mother and baby than a repeat cesarean section.

Here is a fact sheet about c/s: Open Original Shared Link Here is a fact sheet about VBAC: Open Original Shared Link And an article about the risks of VBAC and risks of CS: Open Original Shared Link

Michelle

Unfortunately it does happen, but not nearly as often as we are led to think.

When I was pregnant 24 years ago, I read studies about this same thing, and naysayers were raising questions about the ballooning CS rate even back then.

I had a natural birth with no anesthetic, just a little novocaine to sew up a small tear. I was very hard case.

Yes, it can happen, but it's usually due to other medical issues such as gestational diabetes. Even then, I know of mothers who had 11 pound babies vaginally.

Michelle

My children had good sized noggins as well, but that had no bearing on whether I had c/s's or not. The surgeon for my second birth said that my son was simply too big to come out (CPD)...which was bull$!&#. I went on to prove him wrong with an even bigger baby the third time 'round. My daughter's head was large, she was 9lbs 12oz, and with a fist on her cheek the head circumference was at least 0.5-1 inch bigger. No problems with her coming out, and virtually no problems for me...I needed no stitches.

Because heads are designed to mold, there is rarely a time when c/s is needed due to head circumference. A big factor in being able to birth the babies head safely is position. The lithotomy position (on the back) is the most ineffecient, and most dangerous in terms of damage to mom. Squatting or hands and knees (which is also a good positions rare cases of shoulder dystocia) can make delivering any size head easier.

Essentially, the human body won't grow a baby that's too big, and given the right birth position, the birth canal is designed to birth big babies. Furthermore, ultrasound during the last weeks of pregnancy is notoriously inaccurate for measurements (can be out +/- 3 pounds!) and cannot predict how well a head can mold. Regardless, VBAC is safer for both baby and mom in most cases. However I believe the mother needs to be comfortable with her choice of birth, and a mom that is not interested in the work needed to achieve VBAC (I had to work really hard on so many issues to finally achieve a VBAC!) or is fearful about trying should be able to select an ERCS.

BTW, both of my boys still have good-sized noggins (my eight year old wears the same size hat as me!) and have no signs of autism. My daughter was born big, but it's looking like she'll be petite like me (5'3".)

Michelle

Absolutely! Hmm, somehow I missed the paragraph of explanation. Serves me right for skimming, I suppose!

I'm just questioning it because I had what I'm reasonably sure was DH (it led to the blood test that showed my IgA off the charts), and when I went off gluten, the rash disappeared (as did the stomach problems that I had been ignoring to the point where I didn't realize I had any until they went away). My skin biopsy--taken from unblemished skin next to the lesions--was totally negative.

Dr. Green does not address the fact that most PCP's and even most dermatologists, will prescrible Prednisone to get rid of the rash way before they decide to biopsy to find the cause of it. I believe that Prednisone taken within a month or two (or maybe more?) of the biopsy screws up the test results.

Dr Green does go on to say, "No tests in medicine are 100 percent, not everyone with dermatitis herpetiformis will have a positive skin biopsy. A negative biopsy should not necessarily be used to exclude the diagnosis if the legions look and act like dermatitis herpetiformis and occur after the ingestion of gluten. Patients should be retested, making sure that both the lab technique and specimen taken are appropriate for determining the diagnosis."

Michelle

Me, too, 3 hours pushing for the first.

None of my epidurals were started early, even for the ones that were induced. I didn't want to impede progress! Starting the epidural early is a prescription for a c-section! I can't believe they do it! It seems that docs prefer everything to be cut and dry. I remember someone's doc telling them to express the breastmilk and feed the baby out of the bottle so that they would know how much the baby was eating! I don't believe there were any health problems with the baby ... sometimes docs don't want to just let nature be in control.

Starting an epidural at all can be a prescription for a c/s!

For me, my first c/s was due to breech presentation 3 days post dates...I didn't even labour...and I had a spinal. Second I laboured for a long time before augmentation and epidural. Because I was stuck on my back, my son was unable to move into correct alignment for birth...we both ended up with epidural fevers and had a c/s. My third birth was a typical "first birth": 13 hours of active labour (24 hours of labour in total) with back labour, 2.5 hours of pushing and a compound presentation birth (daughter's hand on her cheek.) My midwives were great for helping me get my daughter turned during labour (lunges on the stairs, hands and knees position & hip squeeze, etc) and were tough when I needed them to be. It would have been very easy to give up and go to hospital for pain relief, but we all knew that it would end in another unnecessary c/s.

Michelle