Jump to content

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Negative Ttg And Ema...is That Conclusive Enough?

stomica

Recommended Posts

stomica Rookie
stomica
Posted

My 3 1/2 year old daughter has had poop issues (sorry for the bluntness!) since she was about 18 months old. She's been diagnosed with colitis through a colonoscopy. She's taking medication for colitis, which is a non-specific topical anti-inflammatory for the colon. She was tested for celiac but only the IgG's and IgA's were elevated. The other two more sensitive tests were negative. The ped GI retested her again (while she was on gluten) but he only did the ttg and ema tests, both of which were negative. He's a great doc. He says without doubt she does NOT have celiac. He does feel she has a wheat allergy in addition to inflammatory bowel disease (colitis). The allergist, however, feels she could very well have a gluten intolerance. I did put her on a dairy free/gluten free diet for a few months. It was hard to say if it worked or not...she was doing well (digestively speaking) at the time, so it wasn't a huge difference. I do think she slept better. (She has night terrors every stinkin' night...I don't think she's ever slept through the night!) Anyway, my question is how conclusive are the ttg and ema tests? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Sue

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


Emme999 Enthusiast
Emme999
Posted

Sue,

Hello. The tTG is extremely sensitive. This is from the book "Dangerous Grains" (my fav. book to quote ;))

"The tTG test usually identifies about 98% of those who have celiac disease, and it is a very specific test that can be used to rule out celiac disease in 95% of patients. This test appears to be superior to endomysium antibody testing, not only because it is less costly but also because it is a little better at identifying celiac disease and because interpretive bias is reduced by the use of computer scanning."

As for EMA Testing:

"This test is very sensitive, and it will identify 90% or more of those patients with flat intestinal walls, but some evidence suggests that it is less reliable for identifying cases with milder intestinal damage. ... However, a negative EMA blood test has limited value for excluding celiac disease. This test is also limited by the need for individual observation and evaluation of stained blood cells."

I hope that helped!

It sounds to me like your daughter has non-celiac gluten sensitivity - which means that both of your doctors are right ;) Are you aware that gluten sensitivity and celiac disease aren't necessarily the same thing? (I don't mean to sound condescending, I didn't know much about it before I started studying :))

Here's a little more from the book:

"Research into human genes now reveals that non-celiac gluten sensitivity, or immune reactions to gluten, may affect as many as 90 million Americans. The evidence suggests that these gluten-sensitive individuals face many of the same hazards associated with untreated celiac disease. ... Gluten sensitivity is much more common, yet is is sought and diagnosed even less frequently than celiac disease."

Obviously your little girl is having an immune response to gluten (since her IgG's and IgA's were elevated). This is a sign that something in her body is not happy when she eats those foods, and probably doesn't help her digestive system much. Also, when you eat something you have a reaction to - it causes a lot of inflammatory conditions, and might be adding to her anxiety (in the form of night terrors). If she was mine, I would probably keep her away from gluten and dairy as much as possible.

Good luck! :)

- Michelle :wub:

stomica Rookie
stomica
Posted
  • Author

Hey Michelle - Sorry I'm so delinquint in responding, but I've been out of town...Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your response! The information has been very helpful. It's always nice to know there are actual facts out there! Thanks again!

Sue

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Join eNewsletter
    Donate
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):



    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):



  • Recent Activity

    1. knitty kitty
      - knitty kitty replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      6

      Son's legs shaking

      Blood tests for thiamine are unreliable. The nutrients from your food get absorbed into the bloodstream and travel around the body. So, a steak dinner can falsely raise thiamine blood levels in the following days. Besides, thiamine is utilized inside cells where stores of thiamine are impossible to measure. A better test to ask for is the Erythrocyte...
    2. lizzie42
      - lizzie42 replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      6

      Son's legs shaking

      Neither of them were anemic 6 months after the Celiac diagnosis. His other vitamin levels (d, B12) were never low. My daughters levels were normal after the first 6 months. Is the thiamine test just called thiamine?
    3. knitty kitty
      - knitty kitty replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      6

      Son's legs shaking

      Yes, I do think they need a Thiamine supplement at least. Especially since they eat red meat only occasionally. Most fruits and vegetables are not good sources of Thiamine. Legumes (beans) do contain thiamine. Fruits and veggies do have some of the other B vitamins, but thiamine B 1 and Cobalamine B12 are mostly found in meats. Meat, especially organ...
    4. lizzie42
      - lizzie42 replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      6

      Son's legs shaking

      Thank you! That's helpful. My kids eat very little processed food. Tons of fruit, vegetables, cheese, eggs and occasional red meat. We do a lot of rice and bean bowls, stir fry, etc. Do you think with all the fruits and vegetables they need a vitamin supplement? I feel like their diet is pretty healthy and balanced with very limited processed food....
    5. Scott Adams
      - Scott Adams replied to Russ H's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      1

      Anti-endomysial Antibody (EMA) Testing

      That is interesting, and it's the first time I heard about the umbilical cord beings used for that test. Thanks for sharing!
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      132,870
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    KABoston
    Newest Member
    KABoston
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):

  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • knitty kitty
      Son's legs shaking

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      Blood tests for thiamine are unreliable.  The nutrients from your food get absorbed into the bloodstream and travel around the body.  So, a steak dinner can falsely raise thiamine blood levels in the following days.  Besides, thiamine is utilized inside cells where stores of thiamine are impossible to measure. A better test to ask for is the Erythrocyte Transketolace Activity test.  But even that test has been questioned as to accuracy.  It is expensive and takes time to do.   Because of the discrepancies with thiamine tests and urgency with correcting thiamine deficiency, the World Health Organization recommends giving thiamine for several weeks and looking for health improvement.  Thiamine is water soluble, safe and nontoxic even in high doses.   Many doctors are not given sufficient education in nutrition and deficiency symptoms, and may not be familiar with how often they occur in Celiac disease.  B12 and Vitamin D can be stored for as long as a year in the liver, so not having deficiencies in these two vitamins is not a good indicator of the status of the other seven water soluble B vitamins.  It is possible to have deficiency symptoms BEFORE there's changes in the blood levels.   Ask your doctor about Benfotiamine, a form of thiamine that is better absorbed than Thiamine Mononitrate.  Thiamine Mononitrate is used in many vitamins because it is shelf-stable, a form of thiamine that won't break down sitting around on a store shelf.  This form is difficult for the body to turn into a usable form.  Only thirty percent is absorbed in the intestine, and less is actually used.   Thiamine interacts with all of the other B vitamins, so they should all be supplemented together.  Magnesium is needed to make life sustaining enzymes with thiamine, so a magnesium supplement should be added if magnesium levels are low.   Thiamine is water soluble, safe and nontoxic even in high doses.  There's no harm in trying.
    • lizzie42
      Son's legs shaking

      By lizzie42 · Posted

      Neither of them were anemic 6 months after the Celiac diagnosis. His other vitamin levels (d, B12) were never low. My daughters levels were normal after the first 6 months. Is the thiamine test just called thiamine? 
    • knitty kitty
      Son's legs shaking

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      Yes, I do think they need a Thiamine supplement at least. Especially since they eat red meat only occasionally. Most fruits and vegetables are not good sources of Thiamine.  Legumes (beans) do contain thiamine.  Fruits and veggies do have some of the other B vitamins, but thiamine B 1 and  Cobalamine B12 are mostly found in meats.  Meat, especially organ meats like liver, are the best sources of Thiamine, B12, and the six other B vitamins and important minerals like iron.   Thiamine has antibacterial and antiviral properties.  Thiamine is important to our immune systems.  We need more thiamine when we're physically ill or injured, when we're under stress emotionally, and when we exercise, especially outside in hot weather.  We need thiamine and other B vitamins like Niacin B 3 to keep our gastrointestinal tract healthy.  We can't store thiamine for very long.  We can get low in thiamine within three days.  Symptoms can appear suddenly when a high carbohydrate diet is consumed.  (Rice and beans are high in carbohydrates.)  A twenty percent increase in dietary thiamine causes an eighty percent increase in brain function, so symptoms can wax and wane depending on what one eats.  The earliest symptoms like fatigue and anxiety are easily contributed to other things or life events and dismissed.   Correcting nutritional deficiencies needs to be done quickly, especially in children, so their growth isn't stunted.  Nutritional deficiencies can affect intelligence.  Vitamin D deficiency can cause short stature and poor bone formation.   Is your son taking anything for the anemia?  Is the anemia caused by B12 or iron deficiency?  
    • lizzie42
      Son's legs shaking

      By lizzie42 · Posted

      Thank you! That's helpful. My kids eat very little processed food. Tons of fruit, vegetables, cheese, eggs and occasional red meat. We do a lot of rice and bean bowls, stir fry, etc.  Do you think with all the fruits and vegetables they need a vitamin supplement? I feel like their diet is pretty healthy and balanced with very limited processed food. The only processed food they eat regularly is a bowl of Cheerios here and there.  Could shaking legs be a symptom of just a one-time gluten exposure? I guess there's no way to know for sure if they're getting absolutely zero exposure because they do go to school a couple times a week. We do homeschool but my son does a shared school 2x a week and my daughter does a morning Pre-K 3 x a week.  At home our entire house is strictly gluten free and it is extremely rare for us to eat out. If we eat at someone else's house I usually just bring their food. When we have play dates we bring all the snacks, etc. I try to be really careful since they're still growing. They also, of course, catch kids viruses all the time so I  want to make sure I know whether they're just sick or they've had gluten. It can be pretty confusing when they're pretty young to even be explaining their symptoms! 
    • Scott Adams
      Anti-endomysial Antibody (EMA) Testing

      By Scott Adams · Posted

      That is interesting, and it's the first time I heard about the umbilical cord beings used for that test. Thanks for sharing!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.