gfp

I can't see how too much fast food and watching Cartoon Network can be compared to allowing your child to put a toxin in their body that will not only cause physical pain and discomfort but can potientially lead to a deadly situation. I know that fast food 5 days a week will hurt a child as well but we are talking about a disease and a prescibed treatment, a gluten free diet. Would a parent of an insulin dependent diabetic be abusive if they allowed that child to skip treatment so they wouldn't feel different around their peers?

At 15 a child is still a child and is basing there desicions on wanting to be the "same" as everyone else, not on what is best for them. That is our job to do. What they do out of the house and away from us we can only hope they do right, but what they do in our homes, that is up to us to decide.

Nicole

I think the case of an insulin dependant diabetic is as far from the celiac situation as the celiac situation is from fast food dinners.

Look at it this way, would a Dr. suggest a 3 month trial of what happens if the child doesn't get insulin?

Dr.s suggest everyday that a 3 month gluten challenge is in some way beneficial or non harmful or are they also deliberatly putting a toxin into a child (or adult for that matter) "that will not only cause physical pain and discomfort but can potientially lead to a deadly situation"

If a 15 year old refuses to eat gluten free then what can a parent do about it? If that child is going to take every opportunity to eat gluten when outside the house is there any point going through the motions inside the house?

What can be done? I dunno, send the kid to one of those places for problem kids where he will not only almost certainly eat gluten but also be mentally and possibly physically abused as well?

You can say the same for smoking.... if a 15 yr old is determined to smoke what can you do to stop it. Are you going to physically restrain the child, prevent them going to school or out with friends?

If I get my hands on the really good stuff (which happens rarely since I'm on a budget) I use it in the simplest ways possible, because all by itself it's so wonderful. Homegrown tomatoes, balsamic & basil... that sort of thing.

I gotta agree, if its real aged modena basalmic I want to taste the basalmic heck its not cheap.

However one dressing I do use it in is a honey vinegarette ....

I'm not one to measure and adjust for taste but basically olive oil and basalmic, a pinch of salt (should be dissolved in vinegar before adding oil) and a little whole grain mustard and a teaspoon of good honey.

Just use it on roquet/lambs lettuce etc. with some parmesan and tomatoes and a bit of fresh basel.

It's certainly irresponsible, but so are happy meals 5 nights a week with an ice cream follow-up in front of the Cartoon Network.

Very true....

My problem with danon is that htey are messing with defintions and changing words. In their most recent emails to me they say they will not classify ANY of their products as "gluten free" how ever some are "gluten safe". Thats a MAJOR red flag to me.

Good point I messed that above but I think this is the sort of thing you have to red flag.

As soon as companies start playing with words, definitions etc. they are hiding something.

Good luck on the CC!

As for the other, I guess its lets educate the world 1 server at a time!

Wow, that's horribly unethical, especially because you don't need to deliberately divide the group into gluten-free and non-gluten-free. They will do it themselves, as there will be a certain number of non-compliant patients. Someone could design a series of regular followup interviews to determine the patient's level of compliance with the diet and their health progress.

Its certainly pretty distasteful. The weird thing is as many people will say its unethical to inform the person they have a disease when they signed up to a blind trial.

You can take this a step further.... for instance people who donate blood might be found to have hepatites or hiv but if they have donated under an anonomity agreement they can't be informed.

The second point is how would you check the ones following the diet are really gluten-free?

Could you allow a brush off the crumbs and pick out the croutons gluten-free person to claim they are gluten-free?

I honestly think the whole test is flawed.... can someone with 'gluten intolerance' develop celiac if untreated?

Er, the answer is resoundingly yes.... we already know this from people who tested negative on biopsy once and postive later.

Did gluten intolerance develop into celiac ? Well you can't say this from the observations BUT it seems likely... so to me the sensible thing to do from my POV is to treat it as if it can until we find out more.

If there were some drug treatment that specifically targetted the villi perhaps a distinction might be justified but since the therapy for both is IDENTICAL ... adherence to a gluten-free diet why split hairs?

I would not call it responsible parenting thats for sure. I dont know that in the eyes of the law it would fall into the realm of "child abuse" but in my opinion it is. As long as that individual is under the age of 18 he is in the custody of his parents. It is their responsibility to keep that child safe and healthy. To ignore his disease in my opinion is negligence on the part of the parent. Of course they dont have control over what he eats outside of the home but to go ahead and feed him gluten and act as if he is not Celiac is not acceptable. Its bad parenting and I find stories like this extremely disturbing....especially given the fact that this particular parent is now suffering health complications as a direct result of consuming gluten. Why would she ignore the fact that her own son faces those same risks if he doesnt adhere to the diet??? Very sad.

This is a good observation.

But its really complex ....

I mean if the kid is just going to eat gluten anyway how can a parent stop that short of actually locking the child up?

That itself could be 'child abuse'....

Another way to look at it is what do you call a Dr. who insists on a biopsy of a child and a 3 month gluten challenge and then insists on another the next year etc. ?

Is this different ?

Just work out, and eat healthy and you will be the weight that's right for you. Don't get too fixated on it, you may gain a few pounds, but if it's good weight because you're working out, that will be fine! I have not gained back all I lost, and I've been maintaining my weight for a few months now.

This is very good advice....

What I find personally is that sticking at an exact weight is really hard. Seasons change and so does time to exersize and the food I'm eating.

Changing weight up or down is a bit like steering a long barge.... you need to make turns in advance.

It can take a week or month for the body to start getting used to a new regime ... especially when its diet controlled.

So the important thing is not to stress over it...

Most underweight celiacs gain weight on a gluten-free diet and quite a few over weight lose some.... its not fixed but its really not something to worry about unless it starts happening. its just mainly that your body starts adsorbing food and nutrients better. One reason for over-eating is because people are not getting enough nutrients so they feel hungry even when they have consumed enough calories. Its also easier to fill this with snack food ... which obviously doesn't help if the snack is poor in nutrition.

The thing to consider is just keep it in mind... in all probability it won't be any more of a problem for you than your average guy or gal without celiac. As we get older it gets a bit harder ... celiac or not...but so long as you don't get outside of certain bounds +/- 10% or so of what you want then its easy... its much harder for people once they get outside of this bracket because they can't just make small changes.

Some Whole Foods 365 Brand products.

I've gotten reactions from their Almond Butter, Digestive Enzymes and a couple other things.

When this happened with the almond butter, I called and inquired (complained). They sent me packaging and postage and asked me to send it to a lab at the U of Nebraska. I heard back from them that there was no gluten detected in the product, but that they only check to 200 ppm.

They will check up to the sensitivity asked for by the client up to what is possible.

Every testing lab works the same way.... the first question the marketing people ask is "do you want to prove it is <X> free to a certain standard or do you want to know if it contains <X>".

In this case you were talking about a single item. Cost becomes an issue because more accurate means more expensive. In this case its a hard call..... if they were to test every package a consumer thought had poisioned them then cost is important. On the other hand if they wanted to test a new product or sample purity of a ingredient from a new supplier then cost is not an issue....

Its a really tough call.... some companies do make every effort and do expensive testing every so often and QC on the line with cheaper testing. Other companies set off from the start just aiming to say they are X free.

I seriously doubt there is a wheat lobby that would be involved in this. More likely the drug lobby would be involved, as the money they make from treating symptoms dwarfs what farmers would lose from a few more people changing their diet.

This is perhaps not the point.

The asbestos industry spent a lot of money to keep making asbestos and sayingit was safe.

I grew up very close to this

Open Original Shared Link

Asbestos related illness was still seen as something very rare even after it was known that it could and did cause cancer it was still not banned.

I don't think the wheat lobby are worried about "a few more people changing their diet" as much as a complete change of the way people view wheat. Someone brought up degrees of seperation on another thread, this is I believe they reason.

1:5000 means most people will never know anyone with celiac disease ... they will of course meet people with it but they are unlikely to be affected directly .. most people will not know of it and most of those who do it will be a friend of a friend...

1:750 ... At some point then everyone will come into direct contact with a celiac... at some point they will eat with one but can still forget about it before the next time they meet one.

1:100 ... Everyone knows multiple people and so everyone knows what celiac disease is. People not directly affected by a close friend or family member will still go to school, work or socialise with several celiacs.

Here is a very biassed article but its worth reading Open Original Shared Link

particualrly

The U.S. has pushed for changes at the World Trade Organization (WTO) that will significantly affect western Canadian farmers.

So Canada went to the WTO ....

What if the US justified trade sanctions by saying it was protecting its population ?

This is a bit political but I want to post it because it shows what the various wheat lobbies believe of each other!

Open Original Shared Link

That last task had the codename Project Hunta. It brought together AWB sales teams already back in the field in Iraq and AWB personnel placed by the Australian Government in key positions in the Coalition Provisional Authority. One of these was the gun-toting Michael Long, who used his position at the Ministry of Trade to save the career of an AWB friend, Yusef Abdul Rahman, the former head of the Iraq Grains Board.

What I am quoting is what different countries wheat lobbies are accusing each other of. I don't want to get into discussing Iraq... I just want to post the types of things the wheat lobbies beleive each other capable of... if its true or not they certainly think it is and if they think another wheat lobby would do this might that not be because they would too?

Besides, farmers can always change the crops they grow to respond to demand, while treating celiac with diet will reduce the drugs prescribed.

Not really, you can't grow rice on a prairy. You can switch for rye or barley ....

But I don't think this is really the major point:

Bread and wheat are marketed as wholesome foods. We might know differently but the general public doesn't.

Here is a totally weird lobby group Open Original Shared Link

Why is the university of phoenix declaring $120,000 lobbying for wheat?

Who are the Apollo group Open Original Shared Link ??

Indeed we find from the US wheat assoc that supply and demand are actually critical. (pdf)

Open Original Shared Link

I'm generally not one to believe in conspiracy theories

I'm not exactly sure this is a conspriracy theory.... at least not like UFO's or tin hats.

This is how the word does business.

Just a trace on one apsect shows this Apollo group which I found randomly ... who is paying the admittedly small $120,000 a year to lobby for wheat?

Lobbying is huge business there are 4,799 registered lobbying companies in the US and 12,772 people who define their job as lobbyists.

These companies do not work for single clients, they represent mutliple clients and look for synergy.

Of these companies it would seem unlikely that the ones used by petroleum companies and those used by automotive manufacturers are not cooperating the lobby. It does not take much more to think perhaps those representing the drug companies and agribusiness (as it is classified in lobbyist terms) are not one and the same with some common goals and interests.

I don't really see this as a conspiracy this is just business as usual....

The Food Allergy Labelling and Consumer Protection Act (FALCPA) was passed in 2004 and took effect on January 1, 2006. It requires that the top eight food allergens be clearly disclosed by name on all food labels in the US. The eight are: milk, egg, fish, crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, wheat, peanuts and soybeans. Of the possible sources of gluten, only wheat is included.

The regulation regarding maltodextrin is quite a bit older, although I don't know the exact date when it took effect. It has certainly been the case for the time I have been gluten-free, which is six years.

So, yes, maltodextrin is safe in the US (and in Canada too).

Thanks, the stuff is definately not 6 yrs old

Having been caught out with this on European products over a long time its something I find naturally scary!

I find it pretty disturbing that they will tell you your blood test means something for sure when it doesn't.

Well the problem really is that testing becomes more sophisticated and newer tests formulated.

At some point in the 50's (exactly when depending where you are) celiac disease became recognised by the biopsy.

As it happens blood tests were pretty much around the corner but for one reason or another the biopsy became the gold standard.

Obviously a biopsy in 1950 wasn't the same as one today ... the testing, methodology and interpretation have both developed and the same goes for the blood tests although they blood tests have got increasingly reliable.

There was some doubt as to the accuracy of blood tests since some people with positive biopsies tested negative and some people negative by biopsy tested positive but at the time both of them were inaccurate, and it was decided by various medical authorities that the biopsy was the gold standard.

Now both tests are far more accurate and most importantly blood tests have progressed much further.

In simple terms some advances are testing for total A antibodies... some people just have less of the type A antibodies and hence the test against gliadin specific A antibodies using a global average of "normal" was leading to false negatives.

The thing is most of the blood test advances are comparitively recent... in the last 10 years.

On top of this there are also many aspects of gluten intolerance/celiac disease which are only just beginning to surface.

One of these is GERD (acid reflux) ... which 5 years ago (perhaps a little longer) was not even recognised as a symptom but today is actually recognised as a diagnostic and occurs in over 50% of celiacs.

I mention this for a reason. GERD is relatively common but 5 yrs ago celaic was regarded as very rare... something like 1:5000 was being used as an average. About 4 years ago I got a new Dr., informed him I had celiac and he told me I couldn't have it because it was a childrens disease so I just told him we were finished here and walked out. 10 yrs ago I had colonoscopy and gastric biopsy .. noone mentioned celiac...

I mentioned my symptoms alternating D and C, GERD etc, to the specialist ad he said they were not related, I had IBS and the GERD was entirely unrelated. Presumably the next celiac said the same and the specialist again said they are not related. etc. etc.

This was the basic medical idea about celiac disease.

Only 1:5000 people were diagnosed and hence it was coinsidered very rare. The rate now depends where you live ...

Open Original Shared Link

What happened? Well one of those pan European studies funded with EU money is largely responsible. As I understand it they took a basket of diseases.. some rare and some commmon and routinely screened a section of volunteers ... the aim was really just to find regional dfferences but it ended up showing a very high incidence of celaic by blood test screening. Very high being 30x what was expected.

What happened next was that some countires were shocked, others called into question the validity of diagnosis by non biopsy and most are best described as burying their heads in the sand.

If you followed the link then you will see Italy took the bull by its horns and now routinely screens all pre-school children. The diagnosis rate of this group is about 1:150.

Now the real question

Most of the medical studies on celiac prevalance are fundamentally flawed, firstly they use 1:5000 as the incidence in a normal population but if we beleive the routine screening this means that the non celaic control group actually contains a significant amount of celiacs. In fact it contains more than the diagnosed group!

However what has not happened (and I hope never will) is that a positive screening on a statistically significant part of the population is done and a significant number of those having negative biopsy.

This group, negative biopsy positive blood tests are then split in two and one half told to eat gluten and the other half told not. Then every 10 yrs they are reassessed by biopsy and we check if any of those negative biopsy have contracted celiac while running a control group with negative blood test and negative biopsy.

The reason I hope this will never happen is because it is deliberatly making people ill. Probably killing a few of them and making life miserable for the rest.

However, don't worry this test is underway.... the ELSPAC study that found the original higher than expected incidence was a blind test. Those with celiac were not told they had it and will not be so as they get older, become ill and some of them die from celaic complications ...

Unfortunately for ELSPAC Italy screwed up this study, it decided to routinely screen everyone so if the child is in the study they will find out seperately.

Anyway the question is perhaps is a gluten intolerant biopsy negative person just a latent celiac. If you like me find sacrificing the health of kids distasteful then perhaps the best thing is to assume it can be... and act accordingly.

But, I think for now I'm just going to try and be 100% gluten-free and live not knowing which it is, since knowing I am majorly sensitive is enough. I've already ran far too many tests invasive and not invasive, that I don't want to go through any more right now. thanks though.

Sara

This is acting accordingly in my book!

What's also disgusting is that they aren't denying that a lot of these kids have celiac disease, they are just reccomending that it go undiagnosed to spare families the trouble. Good grief.

I doubt it.... they are justifying their financial case by a smoke screen.

And the financial cost of routine screening those without symptoms of celiac disease is far from the only issue.

Don't believe a word of it.... this is an afterthought.

(the recommended treatment) are not only costly, but more importantly, they make the child stand out when most patients and families are working very hard to integrate the child into society.

Firstly several pepole here have already busted the more costly part to diet anyway BUT "being different" because they have celiac disease is probably the last being different that a family has to struggle against for a DS child!

I'm sorry but "I can't eat that" and "I've just pooped myself" are two different levels...

LKelley8 has it spot on

It's bean-counter science. Applying cold cost/benefit analysis to human life.

<shudder> unsure.gif

Bean counter science is not science ... it is manipulating results based on manufactured tests to take money away from someone.

Don't they care about the children's health at all?

Childrens health has nothing to do with it.... $$$$$$$$$

Don't they know that somebody with celiac disease usually feels run down, has tummy aches, can't think straight, has gas, bloating, diarrhea or constipation etc. Is it that they feel that kids with Down syndrome aren't worth spending some money on, to improve their health?

And it's true, in Italy every single child gets tested for celiac disease before they start school, not just kids with DS. How do they manage to afford it? Simple, the kids that are identified to have celiac disease at the age of six,

will cost an awful lot less money with numerous illnesses later on.

It is also largely to do with the constant political maneovering over biopsy and blood testing.

No country on earth (excepting Saudi and a few states that don't have legal citizen status for families living there for generations and a very high GDP:pop) could ever afford routine biopsy screening.

So we are eating far healthier and spending LESS money on food. Apparently, the doctors feel it is important to avoid this. blink.gif

Senaca is attributed with Is fecit, cui prodest. from the Medea. but it has been along much longer.

For those without a knowedge of latin, "he that benefits is he that did it". although fans of Senaca will note the slight deviation here (Senaca having the term in context) but the principle was also used by Giaus Julius in his defense against the senate and predates the epoch almost to the two tablets.

In other words if you want to know why look at who stands to gain not who stands to loose.

Downs syndrome kids are an easy target... firstly you can take life expectancy and then only address issues which are life expectancy controlled. Secondly you can "interview" the downs syndome kids and ask them if they want an operation on the offchance they have a very rare disease that might affect them when they are older.

You can ask about what involves quality of life for a downs syndrome kid and get answers like "being near mommy".

I am horrified at the faulty logic. "Well, smoking doesn't significantly increase the cost of cosmetic surgery for age lines, so there's no reason to advise people to stop smoking."

Taken to the endpoint... Downs syndrome kids have a short life expectancy. Smoking related illnesses statistically affect older people. Many people profess to enjopying smoking and count it as a quality of life. So all Downs syndrome kids should be encouraged to smoke?

I think this illustrates how deranged the paper is!

And it would only get EASIER to be on the diet if more of the people who need it get diagnosed! Sometimes I wonder about medical "science"...

cui prodest?

Or perhaps who is presently gaining?

The problem with this theory is that they're doing a blood test for antibodies which are generated in the intestines, a system which is designed to keep all but small molecules out of the bloodstream. You have to ingest enough gluten to damage the intestines sufficiently for them to 'leak' antibodies that would not normally enter the bloodstream. That is why it requires being on so much gluten for so long - you need to guarantee significantly damage to the intestines so the blood tests will be able to detect the antibodies.

Its a lot of probablies....

hineini: as a minimum, since your Dr. sounds receptive I would try and discuss what about a false negative with him.

Take some of the papers on the testing and highlight parts so not to waste his/her time looking over them.

Take some of Fine's papers as well since this doesn't rely on the leaky gut .... perhaps he could just swap the test over ? From an MD's perspective this is just covering bases but if they are a good MD they will also listen to any concerns regarding the false neg... either way its going to be easier to have discussed this prior to the procedure IMHO and at least have the tests noted that you were unable to have guten prior to the tests due to a strong reaction. You never know when you are going to change Dr. and this type of thing is often overlooked if its not in black n white.

Well some in group don't actually trust the gov't so much......one got in trouble with IRS when some group convinced him that paying income tax is not a requirement and the IRS is an illegal organization. But you did give me a good idea. I'll print off some info from the University of Chicago Celiac site. It's simple enough for anyone to understand. Thanks!

Everyone has personal triggers....

Keep hinting how its a bit suspicious that places like Italy test every child and 1:200 are found positive and the US administration (in common with most but you can omit that detail) seems to be ignoring this huge health issue. Don't try and tell them its for them, tell them its frustrating for you because maybe research is hidden, maybe the wheat farmers lobby is paying someone off.... ask them how you would find out.

People are much more receptive when they find out themselves. Some people more than others.

floridanative:

Its like this .. there are two things that can happen... you keep nagging and it works or you keep nagging and it pushes her further.

If this wasn't adversely affecting you then its still a toss-up ... leave her to realise or try and lead the horse to water.

BUT it is affecting you adversely.... you could make yourself ill with worry, be rebuffed, insultled and still not help.

Since eleep is very likely to meet the girlfriend of the person I'm talking about soon .... I'll keep details light!

I had a very good friend, addicated to alcohol and I tried, went through wantching him kill himself... knew he was lying to his (our Dr.) ... I tried and tried and just before he left Paris for Maddison he screwed up a flight and wanted to stop with me again at a very inopportune moment (the weekend my girlfriend and I moved in)

I said no... unless he was desperate.... but offered to find him somewhere with mutual friends....

Well the good news he is on top of it, has kept down a job for a record time.... obviously his girlfriend deserves most of the credit but I think also cutting him off politely perhaps shocked him enough to bring about some change?

Looks pretty cool and perfect for trips to the grocery store.

-Jessica

Sounded so cool, and Im a gadget geek so I went to have a look and found Open Original Shared Link

Gave me a good laugh click the this, I hid the page link because it kinda spols it.

You are coming in very handy today! Thanks!

Leah

to be read in salemans voice.....

Then imagine how useful this all purpose multiuse tool could be for you. Simply dial 1-800 Swisscard today....

p.s. I just sent someone in Switzerland to your site for French translations of ingredients.

Thanks.....

I am!

If it is made from something else, it must say so. In addition, in the US, FALCPA requires wheat to be clearly labelled in every single case.

Thanks for posting that... which is why I said I was not sure. I have read a study mutliple times (it keeps coming up) that obviously pre-dates this but i was equally aware it was an old paper. I was aware the labelling laws had changed though. Do you have the date of this?

Reason being I have a couple of products I have held off using in my cupboard friends have brought me ....and its fast approaching toss em or use em time!

Not all tamari is gluten-free! Should be, perhaps, but you still have to read the labels...

Do we sound like a broken record?

My frustration is shopping in ethnic groceries where the labels aren't even in English!

Leah

I was going to reply .. and then did a bit of research. What I was going to say is now irrelevant because it turned out to be a whole lot more complex than I thought... think inuit words for snow!

I think people should probably just read this :

Open Original Shared Link

queenofhearts: it also contains the Chinese and Japanese labelling !!!

I'm with you on that one! There really ought to be a law about the font size. I'm actually looking for a magnifying glass that will fit in my wallet with the credit cards for that very reason!

The Swiss card also comes with a tiny knife, scissors and well....

Compact multi tool

Letter opener

Small scissors

Stainless Steel pin

Nail file screwdriver

Ballpoint pen

Tweezers

LED light

4 way screwdriver

3.23 Inches (82mm) long

edited to comply with board rules

The same info is available here.. since some of the fields are missing you need to post this into Excel or similar and keep the spaces

International Grain Glossary

wheat

barley

oat

Rye

flour

starch

wheat, starch

rice

maize, corn

buckwheat

maizestarch,

cornstarch

rice

starch

Potato

potatoflour

Francaise,French

blé

froment

orge

avoine

seigle

farine

amidon

amidon de blé

riz

maïs

sarrasin

amidon de maïs

amidon de riz

Pomme de terre

fécule de pomme de terre

Italien

Italiano

italian

frumento grano

orzo

avena

segale

farina

amido

amido di frumento

riso

maïs, granoturco

grano saraceno

amido di mais

amido di riso

patata

fecola di

patata

Espagnol

Español

Spanish

trigo

cebada

avena

centeno

harina

almidon

almidon de trigo

arroz

maiz

alforfon, trigo sarraceno

almidon de mais

almidon de arroz

patata

fécula de

patata

Portugais

Português

Portuguese

trigo

cevada

aveia

centeio

farinha

amido

amido de trigo

arroz

milho

trigonegro

amido de milho

amido de arroz

batata

fécula de

batata

Allemand

Deutsch

German

Weizen

Gerste

Hafer

Roggen

Mehl

Stärke

Weisen-

stärke

Reis

Mais,

Tuerkis-

cherweizen

Buchweizen

Maisstärke

Reiss-

tärke

Kartoffel

(Austria:

Erdapfel)

Kartofel-

stärke

Suédois

Svenska

Svedish

vete

korn

havre

râg

mjöl

stärkelse

vetest-

ärkelse

ris

majs

Bovete

majsstärkelse

riss-

tärkelse

potatis

Norvégien

Norsk

Norvegian

hvete

bygg

havre

rug

mel

stivelse

ris

mais

potet

Hollandais

Nederlands

Dutch

tanwe

gersta

haver

Rogge

meel

stifmid-

del

tarwe-

zetmeel

rijst

mais

boekweit

maisstijfsel

rijstzet-

meel

aardappel

aardappelzet-

meel

Dannois

Dansk

Danish

hvede

bygg

havre

rug

mel

stivelse

hvedes-

tivelse

ris

majs

boghvede

majsstivelse

rissti-

velse

Kartoffel

kartoffel-

tivelse

Polonais

Polski

Polish

pszenica

jeczmien

owies

Zyto

maka

krochmal

ryz

kukuryd-

za

hreczka

ziemniak

Tchèque

Csek

Czech

obili

jeèmen

oves

ito

mouka

krob

r_e

kukuoice

pohanka

kukuoièn-

krob

brambor

Croate

Hrvatski

Croatian

psenica

jecam

ovas

raz

brasno

skrob

Skrob od brasna

riza

kukuruz

Heljda, hajdina

Kukuruzni skrob

Rizin skrob

Krumpir

Krumpirovo brasno

Slovène

Slovenski

Slovenian

psenica

jemen

oves

Reno

ganje

koruza

Finlandais

Suomi

Finnish

vehna

ohra

kaura

ruis

jauho

tärkki

vehn-

ätäkke-

lys

rïsi

maissi

tattari

maissit-

ärkkelyse

rïsit-

äkkelys

peruna

perunat-

ärkkelys

Hongrois

Magyar

Hungarian

buza

arpa

zab

Rozs

liszt

kemé-

nyitõ

rizs

kukorica

pohanha

burgonya

I'm afraid that is impossible, and entirely out of my hands. It's a three month wait for my endoscopy, and a 7 month wait for my colonoscopy. That's just the reality of elective procedures in Canada.

Michelle

Is it not possible to elect to pay for one and arrange they are done at the same time?

Yikes, I guess that's the price you pay for National Health... I had a 2 month wait & thought that was forever!

Yeah that really wierd. Mine was outpatient surgery as well, though they did make me sign the form saying I wouldn't sue them if I died while under anesthesia.

There are risks and complications that are possible, but you go home right after you wake up.

Some people get really freaked out by this kinda stuff though. Feel kinda bad for the husband.

Elonwy

I think you can see this in different ways....

For thepoor friend, she probably does see it as major surgery. She is probably frightened and confused... not to mention the medical disclaimers.

I think the compassionate thing would be to tell her she is welcome to the time off and that this is already given BUT for her own sake she should realise these "operations" are minor and in your case you have had several and its no big deal. As her friend and employer you are happy for her to take the time but you don't want her worrying over nothing.

At the end of the day, if you did make her come in I doubt you would be ready to sack her for being inefficent and distracted the whole day anyway... but make it clear you are doing this because its a big deal for her and she should worry less over minor ops and legaleze jargon on forms.