Alternative Cure? Or Am I Just Hopeful?

[FaithInScienceToo]

Seems important to post this info:

Admin sent me a PM telling me he agreed with my assessment that Tailz was prothelitizing on here.

She was warned, 'again.'

Now, I am going back to 'hiatus status,' as life is hectic lately.

I only continued communicating with Tailz as it was 'unfinished,' and her replies were something I could not, in good faith, ignore.

Take care, everyone -

Gina

[Ursa Major]

Gina, since you appear to have an agenda here, and a vendetta, I would like to let you know, that she was NOT proselytizing (check your spelling, this is how you spell it) while she was conversing with me on whether she should eat meat or not. As others have pointed out already, NOBODY was trying to convert anybody.

And for your information, I got very close to reporting you, because your attack was entirely unwarranted. So, I say, be glad YOU didn't get a warning yourself, as may happen if you keep up your gloating.

Carol is a woman who is likely going through a lot more than you at this time, and while she may be a little one-sided in her approach, needs our encouragement and support, not our criticism.

I have talked to her about the issue in private. I see no need for you to bring it out into the open, for your own personal satisfaction.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

First of all, it's "proselytizing," not "protheletizing."

Second of all, I don't even think it's debatable: she was NOT trying to convert anybody (which, as Ursula pointed out, is the definition of proselytizing).

Third of all, why would admin send you a PM about warning tailZ when you're the one jumping down throats here? We may not all agree on what courses of action to take, but at least we agree on being able to discuss these matters.

At the very least, it seems awfully mean-spirited of you to come on here and announce smugly and importantly that "she has been warned."

[Fiddle-Faddle]

You would know! I know the New Testament more than the Old. ARE we supposed to eat meat or not? Thanks, Fiddle!

I don't know as much as I ought to about the laws of Kashrut, but I think they are in Leviticus.

Here is a link that explains in great detail:

Open Original Shared Link

[CarlaB]

I'm not wanting to get into the debate, but I can answer a question that was asked -- When did Christ declare we could eat shellfish, and pork, for that matter. It was when He said it was not what you put into your mouth that made you clean, it was what was in your heart. Being the Catholic that I am, I cannot quote the verse , but it is in the Gospel.

[Rachel--24]

Gina, I think your last post is very telling. Wow.

Enough said.

[Lymetoo]

Interestingly, these are the Jewish dietary laws--as far as I can tell, most Christians have never even heard of them.

Christians who read the Bible know about them! Most "serious" Christians read the "Old" Testament, as well as the "New".

[Lymetoo]

The doctor most likely, even if that first test is negative, in his attempts to explain the symptoms, repeat it throughout steroid therapy at which point he will note that the HIV has "turned positive". The patient now officially has what doctor's call AIDS.

If another person, perhaps middle to upper class, were to walk into that same doctor's office complaining of the exact same symptoms, with an identical family history, what are the chances that he will be screened for HIV? And if it is negative, what are the chances that the doctor will repeat it throughout this patient's steroid therapy over and over?

You know what scares me about that?? Is it true that a dr treating an AIDS patient might give repeated steroid therapy in order to convert the negative test to a positive?

YIKES! Steroid "therapy" suppresses the immune system That is NOT a good thing most of the time! [unless your life is in danger from some severe infection or asthma, for example]

In the case of Lyme disease, for example, steroids can bring out the Lyme FULL FORCE. Sometimes it is next to impossible to recover from.

[Jestgar]

You know what scares me about that?? Is it true that a dr treating an AIDS patient might give repeated steroid therapy in order to convert the negative test to a positive?

YIKES! Steroid "therapy" suppresses the immune system That is NOT a good thing most of the time! [unless your life is in danger from some severe infection or asthma, for example]

In the case of Lyme disease, for example, steroids can bring out the Lyme FULL FORCE. Sometimes it is next to impossible to recover from.

The immunosuppresive effescts of steroids are well known. I don't think any reputable physician would prescribe them with out avery good reason and also a pre-defined endpoint.

If you get an AIDS test from a doctor you are more likely to get a PCR test which looks at the presence or absence of viral nucleic acids. These are either positive, or negative, they don't change over time unless over that time you get infected with the virus.

[Lymetoo]

The immunosuppresive effescts of steroids are well known. I don't think any reputable physician would prescribe them with out avery good reason and also a pre-defined endpoint.

If you get an AIDS test from a doctor you are more likely to get a PCR test which looks at the presence or absence of viral nucleic acids. These are either positive, or negative, they don't change over time unless over that time you get infected with the virus.

thanks for the info!

[debmidge]

I read through all pages and I can't find what the hub-bub was about....

My overall impression was

firstly - discussion over to take silver or not

2nd - some doctors are quacks and big pharma wants your money

3rd - is meat acceptable to eat if we read the Old and New Testaments?

I never felt Talilz was pushing a religion at any point. As a matter of fact I was pleased that an adult discussion about this topic was being pursued without any petty arguments, but I guess I was wrong. I too felt that Tailz was asking in earnest about the subject matter and getting responses from those who have information. I've seen threads get hijacked to stupider subjects than discussing OT law.

I could say more but I won't

[gfp]

I read through all pages and I can't find what the hub-bub was about....

My overall impression was

firstly - discussion over to take silver or not

2nd - some doctors are quacks and big pharma wants your money

3rd - is meat acceptable to eat if we read the Old and New Testaments?

I never felt Talilz was pushing a religion at any point. As a matter of fact I was pleased that an adult discussion about this topic was being pursued without any petty arguments, but I guess I was wrong. I too felt that Tailz was asking in earnest about the subject matter and getting responses from those who have information. I've seen threads get hijacked to stupider subjects than discussing OT law.

I could say more but I won't

The difference is when you mix them all together and start talking about them altogether and justifying it with fictional books like the bible. (Most of the world sees the bible as fiction) ...

Once you go down the christian-judaic-islamic equivalent of the promethius/pandora myth and start saying diseases are just a punishment from God then

If we would follow the Bible, we wouldn't need Western medicine. I guarantee smallpox and polio got their beginnings in something man did.

The rest has been deleted

Gina, I dont understand where your anger is coming from???

Again, you have added things to a post (mine, in this case) that were never said, made assumptions, etc -

When someone takes your quote and adds to it or removes parts to make it look stupid out of context then most people are going to be irritated.

I have talked to her about the issue in private. I see no need for you to bring it out into the open, for your own personal satisfaction.

I don't see this as gloating or personal satisfaction. Taliz took what gina said and twisted it in public and attempted to tarnish her repuatation. This IMHO demands a public correction especially since it seems eKatherine was the only person to actually support her view that the whole thread was ""wishful thinking is always better than demonstrable facts". When someone is defamed publically the logical redress is public correction of that defamation.

Whenever people are allowed to quote their own beliefs as fact this is a likely outcome and Taliz certainly started this when she said "If we would follow the Bible, we wouldn't need Western medicine. I guarantee smallpox and polio got their beginnings in something man did. "

Now the really sad part is Taliz could have benefited from our help, who will she turn to if her Lymes test is negative AGAIN? Moreever perhaps she was partly correct, we certainly don't know enough to discout a link between lymes and celaic developing.

However IMHO anyone who starts posting creation myths (which is what most mainstream Christian and Jewish scholars think of Genesis not even getting into the majority of the world who do not have monthesic beleifs) in relation to medical advice and blaming everything on the fall of man is not debatable with, they let uninformed belief override factual evidence and simple good common sense.

[Ursa Major]

Steve, you are quite wrong when you think that MOST Christian and Jewish scholars think the bible stories are a myth. That in itself is a myth. I consider you saying that quite arrogant, actually. Why is it, that atheists think they should continuously put down people who believe in God, while they expect that others should be tolerant of their beliefs (or non-beliefs, if you will)?

Putting down Christians and belittling their faith seems to be a popular sport these days. Whenever it is done towards people of religions other than Christianity, people seem to get angry and outraged quite readily, and the cry of 'prejudice' will be loud. And it will be heard, too!

If a Christian will say something negative about another religion, or, lets say, a Christian with a printing business refuses to print the letterhead of a homosexual organization, because promoting homosexuality goes against his conscience (while having no problem printing more ordinary stuff for that same potential client), he will be dragged through the courts here in Canada, losing about $50,000.00 in the process (this is not fictional, it happened just recently to a printer in Toronto). But if a homosexual will do the same thing to a Christian, believe me, NOTHING would happen to him. Why is that? It's because of people, even governments, judges etc. think the same way you do. Plus, the Christian who is refused the job won't be so ridiculously boneheaded and vindictive to go and start a court case over it, but just go and find another printer. Because there are plenty of printers out there, no big deal.

And if you would do a little research on the historical truth of the bible, you'd soon find that more and more evidence is unearthed (literally), that those 'myths' are quite true. Archeologists keep finding more and more cities that they claimed were fictitious. They found Jericho, for instance, and the evidence shows, that the walls did fall! Very interesting. And that's just one find that astonished scholars that claimed Jericho was fictional.

Anyway, it would be nice if you wouldn't try to now push your beliefs on everybody else. It is actually quite insulting.

[Jestgar]

Can we please not argue religion. There's enough of that in the world.

[jerseyangel]

Before this goes any further, I want to gently remind everyone that Scott has repeatedly said that this is not the board on which to discuss religion.

Ursula and Steve, I respect both of you and hope that you understand.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Well, it's kind of hard to figure it all out now, because all of tailZ's posts have been deleted for some reason (by Scott?).

Still, I feel strongly that she was NOT proselytizing; she was wondering about an admittedly controversial treatment, and also wondering about diseases within the parameters of her views on religion. The fact that colloidal silver is a CONTROVERSIAL treatment means that there IS room for discussion. And this was certainly an apporopriate place for her to ask her questions and defend her reasons for considering it in the first place, even if others don't agree, and even if she is ultimately wrong about colloidal silver! Similarly, Gina may defend to the death traditional medicine, even if many of us have been harmed by it--we are allowed to put in our 2 cents, too!

I don't think you can ask people to separate their religious views from the way they look at life in general; some people can do it, but others simply can't, and as long as they are not hurting or insulting someone else, you can't just ask them to shut up, especially when they are asking questions and trying to learn!

Gina's angry and vicious reaction was NOT in proportion to what was being said. She seemed bent on lashing out at tailZ--did anyone notice, I asked Gina if she was all right, and she did not respond to me? I saw on another thread that she is on meds for being bipolar--could this somehow be a factor?

I vehemently disagree with Scott's decision to ban tailZ. I also don't think he should ban Gina.

gfp, the only thing that bothers me about your post is that you talk about what "most of the world" believes regarding the Bible as though that is somehow proof that you are right. Perhaps you don't intend for what you wrote to smack of superiority--but the way that you wrote it does.

It really does not matter what most or even all of the world believes. Look what happened when most of German-speaking Europe believed a charismatic speaker named Adoph Hitler. And if we are going to get political, look what's happened when a majority of American voters (NOT ME!) voted for George Bush.

So, I'm sure you can understand why I don't think you should use what "most of the world believes" to jack up your arguments. Ultimately, it comes down to you and your conscience--which may or may not include God.

[eKatherine]

Steve, you are quite wrong when you think that MOST Christian and Jewish scholars think the bible stories are a myth. That in itself is a myth. I consider you saying that quite arrogant, actually. Why is it, that atheists think they should continuously put down people who believe in God, while they expect that others should be tolerant of their beliefs (or non-beliefs, if you will)?

Most Christian and Jewish scholars are not fundamentalist, therefore they take the Bible as historical/inspiratioanal literature, not literally true. So in that sense he is correct.

I personally do not believe that tolerance is an acceptable substitute for human rights. Tolerance is something that is conditional. It can be rescinded. Look at how the word is used: "I will tolerate you." It means you think the person is wrong, you're letting them know you think they are wrong, and you will put up with it for now but you may take it back later.

[gfp]

Most Christian and Jewish scholars are not fundamentalist, therefore they take the Bible as historical/inspiratioanal literature, not literally true. So in that sense he is correct.

I personally do not believe that tolerance is an acceptable substitute for human rights. Tolerance is something that is conditional. It can be rescinded. Look at how the word is used: "I will tolerate you." It means you think the person is wrong, you're letting them know you think they are wrong, and you will put up with it for now but you may take it back later.

eKatherine has descibed my meaning exactly...

I was speaking about "The Fall" which was brought up by Taliz in her quote that

If we would follow the Bible, we wouldn't need Western medicine. I guarantee smallpox and polio got their beginnings in something man did.

and specifically the Catholic chatecism states (underlining mine)

How to read the account of the fall

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

As jerseyangle has pointed out this is not really the place to discuiss religion ...I am simply putting that comment into the context I meant it. Literal word for word interpretation is not what most biblical or rabbinic scholars take and is not what is taught to the scholars.

I could equally state the strongly held belief that:

"Latter-day Saints know, through modern revelation, that the Garden of Eden was on the North American continent and that Adam and Eve began their conquest of the earth in the upper part of what is now the state of Missouri. It seems very probable that the children of our first earthly parents moved down along the fertile, pleasant lands of the Mississippi valley." (John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, three volumes in one, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft 1960, p. 127

but this is not the opinion or belief of modern biblical scholars.

As eKatherine points out literal interpretation of symbolistic events is a fundamentalist minority viewpoint and is not what mainstream theologians from either Judaism or Catholicism (and derived sects) teach or believe.

As an interesting bynote some sects of Coptism and Gnostic (pre-catholic) maintain that the serpent is the hero of the story... and Judaic scholars maintain the existance of Lilyth before Eve...

edits....

In other words this is not my opinion, it is the expressed opinion of the Catholic church and equally mainstream Judaism. (really I'm sure I can dig up references for that too)

[FaithInScienceToo]

Two things...just for the record:

1) I am not on any meds for bi-polar - not sure who wrote that, as no time to check - I do, however, take meds for minor depression/anxiety and now also for ADHD - if anyone has a problem with that, you've got problems...

2) Also, below is the full interaction between myself and Scott - please note that I did not address only 'the proselitying' (sp? - sorry, also have dyslexia and a poor memory - doesn't make me inept in my assessment of Tailz, though - what she did on here, was pretty easy to see, if you ask me...anyway...)...

Tailz' decisions to write untrue things about those who weren't giving her the replies she wanted to hear was another thing I addressed to Scott - her posts were akin to that bit above about me being on meds for bipolar - no such post appears anywhere by me on this forum - because I am not bi-polar - however, my older sister and paternal aunt are...does that also make me 'irrational?'....OK...back to Tailz - she attacked other members on here who disagreed with her, in both subtle, and not-so-subtle fashions, - not certain if that's the main reason (?) why her posts got nixed, appropriately by Scott - please note, though, that I never asked him to delete anything.

Anyway - I didn't, at first, think it necessary to get into the full problem I had with Tailz' posts in this thread, but since some members seem to think I was only '100%pro-Science and somehow anti-religion' .....which I obviously was not...nor did I ever say anything along those lines...I think it best, at this point, to just copy and paste exactly what I wrote to Scott and exactly what he said in reply - please note that my interpretations of Tailz' posts were apparently supported 'across the board' by Admin in his brief and direct reply of "I agree, I warned her again.' AND - apparently SOMEONE ELSE besides myself also complained about her posts...hence the 'again' in there...

...and also note, please... Admin, removed tailz' posts - I did not request that in my PM to him - he chose to do so - and I respect him FULLY for having done so-

OK...well...that's it for this trip into cyber-support...can't read all posts, as have to do chores, etc - I just saw the untrue new thing about me being on meds for bipolar, and knew someone was fishing for a reply from me, so there you have it-

OK...still hoping to see religion posts in the chat room....and no more untrue posts about members by other members... I see that hasn't occurred, though... but, hope springs eternal...

Gina

HERE ARE THE PMs between myself and Scott -

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I agree, I warned her again.

Scott

QUOTE

admin,

You have been sent this communication from FaithInScienceToo via the "Report this post to a moderator" link.

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Topic: Alternative Cure? Or Am I Just Hopeful?

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Link to post: Open Original Shared Link

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Report:

Dear Scott,

PLEASE let this 'newish, but advanced?' member know that she is not allowed to prothelitize to other members in the 'coping with' section - and that if she wants to write threads that are anti-science or pro-God, she is more than welcome (?I suppose) to do so in the Chat Room.

Also - please note that she has made irrational assumptions and negative statements about those who offered her advice contrary to what she wanted to hear - which was, obvisouly, basically only anti-doctors, anti-science, and God-only kinda stuff... She should be told to do not do, in my opinion.

Thank you. I hope we can keep this place 'rational' -

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Regards,

The Gluten-Free Celiac Disease Forum at Celiac.com (Home) team.

Open Original Shared Link

Gina

[NoGluGirl]

what is the leaky gut/ chronic candidiasis theory? anyway ive had cronic thrush ( candida) for 10 years ongoing, i had creams and peseries and tablets till they were comeing out my ears, in the end everything they gave me treat the thrush would not work, it got so bad i ended up in hospital. my doctor washed her hands with me and orderd every test she could think of, anyway long story short im gluten, wheat, dairy, nut and white suger free and since may this year i have had thrush once and that was when i was doing a gluten challenge which i quickly stopped and the thrush then went away. when you are in so much pain from thrush you get desperate and will try anything, i know, i have been there and have tried some of the most unusual things to get rid of it, try the diet for a while and see what happens. if nothing hapens then try different avenues, ive never heard of this silver thing and wouldnt say DONT but please be carefull of what you take especailly buying over the net as in my experiance you dont know who you are buying from. sorry for being so long but wanted to reply, everyone has diffeent oppinions and this is just mine so someone probably thinks im talking out my bum. hope this helps and you feel better soon.

Dear taz sharratt,

Candida is capable of so many terrible things. My doc thinks I have it. I have been ill for years with fibromyalgia, debilitating nausea, stomach pain, severe reflux, and so many other miseries. I have done extensive research on Candida, and found that it can produce over 100 physical symptoms alone. That does not include it has been found to be responsible for autism, manic depression, schizophrenia, ADD and ADHD. I wrote an essay on it, in fact. If you would like a copy, just let me know and e-mail me! My address is rainbow_geisha@hotmail.com. I have to say, I have never heard of using silver to treat it, though. I strict diet, antifungal medications, and probiotics are the more common treatments.

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl