Jump to content
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Blood Test/diagnosis Question


basilicious

Recommended Posts

basilicious Explorer

I apologize if this is something I should have already figured out in my research, but my annoyance with the diagnostic process is clouding my thinking at the moment...

If the DGP IgG test is so accurate and so specific to celiac (which I realize it is), then why would we need any other blood tests? Why are people still getting full celiac panels for the wide array of antibodies? Why are biopsies still being used to confirm diagnosis? Are there ever false positives or other underlying reasons for the DGP IgG test?

What constitutes sufficient "proof" of celiac? Although it's clearly useful to try to size up damage and rule out other conditions, can't that be a next step after a celiac diagnosis? I am genuinely trying to understand if I'm missing something or if it truly just boils down to the medical field only diagnosing advanced celiac!

I keep seeing how DGP IgG is so great at diagnosing celiac when someone is low in total IgA or is very young, but I don't understand why it would be limited to that group. If it's good, it's good, and shouldn't everyone use it?

Sorry for so many questions...thanks for humoring me. :blink:


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



Skylark Collaborator

Scientists are comparing them even as we type. B) It looks like the combo of DGP-IgG and TTG-IgA may be the best bet to help reduce false positives.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

basilicious Explorer

Scientists are comparing them even as we type. B) It looks like the combo of DGP-IgG and TTG-IgA may be the best bet to help reduce false positives.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Skylark, as usual, you are able to school me! :) I will have to find the full text of these online.

Not trying to be thick-headed here, but since this points to a combo of DGP-IgG and TTG IgA, then what about the folks (like me) who are positive for DGP IgG but not TTG IgA? Isn't the chance of a false positive extremely slim? Are you aware of anything else besides celiac that could cause a high DGP IgG? (For example, my GI doctor said it could be related to a wheat allergy, which seems far-fetched, but what do I know...)

Related to this...is it true that testing DGP IgG could detect celiac earlier than some of the other antibodies tests? So should I feel confident in my results and feel fortunate to have possibly caught this at an earlier stage?

Skylark Collaborator

From what I've been reading DGP IgG is thought to be the first celiac antibody formed. Then when antibodies bind to the gliadin-TTG enzyme complex you end up with TTG antibodies and autoimmunity. Your doctor may be thinking of DGP-IgA, which is not as sensitive for celiac. The putative development of DGP-IgG before TTG does raise the question of how far into celiac disease you get DGP, assuming that is the correct sequence of events. I agree with you that false positives seem unlikey and that you were probably lucky and caught early in the process of developing celiac.

It looks like the DGP-IgG is actually slightly less sensitive in one of these two studies than TTG-IgA. The combination is preferred because of the high specificity.

Let's see. In the Vermeersch et al. paper they were working with a bunch of different DGP IgG tests. The best had 86% sensitivity and 98% specificity. Their other kits ranged in sensitivity from 40.7%-86% at a 98% sensitivity cutoff.

"When the IgG anti-DGP assay from Inova would be performed in all patients in addition to the IgA anti-tTG assay from Phadia (the IgA anti-tTG and IgG anti-DGP assay with the highest LR in this study), the sensitivity would increase from 83.7% to 89.5%, while the specificity would only decrease from 98.4% to 98.0%. Five of the 14 patients diagnosed with celiac disease who were negative for IgA anti-tTG were positive for IgG anti-DGP including one patient with a selective IgA deficiency (< 0.05 g/L). Sixty-seven of the 86 celiac disease patients were positive with both assays compared to only 2 of the 741 patients classified as non-celiac disease. These 2 patients who were Marsh 0 on intestinal biopsy could have latent celiac disease. One 5 year old patient had a small stature and another 4 year old patient had abdominal pain."

From Volta et al.

"In the light of the information provided by our prospective study, as hypothesized by other authors,23 a new antibody strategy based on the combined search for IgA tTGA and IgG DGP-AGA can be designed for celiac disease screening. As generally recognized, IgA tTGA are the most sensitive test for celiac disease, but their usefulness can be partially reduced by the occurrence of “false positives,” a lower sensitivity in infancy and the inability to identify celiac disease cases associated with IgA deficiency. Indeed, IgG DGP-AGA may be suggested to solve these diagnostic deficiencies of IgA tTGA and add significant advantages for the serologic workup of celiac disease. Specifically: (1) IgG DGP-AGA can replace IgA EmA as a confirmatory test for tTGA positive cases. Indeed, although both IgG DGP-AGA and EmA are highly specific for celiac disease, the former (as it uses ELISA) offers the advantage of better reproducibility than the latter, whose reliability is limited by interobserver variability owing to the interpretation of the indirect immunofluorescence pattern 24; (2) IgG DGP-AGA are a very good tool for identifying celiac disease in children under 2 years of age, rendering testing for AGA redundant in these patients,25, Volta unpublished data finally, and (3) IgG DGP-AGA allows the identification of celiac disease in patients with IgA deficiency, thus avoiding the IgG tTGA test. In this respect, IgG DGP-AGA should undoubtedly be preferred to IgG tTGA, which is known to have a very low specificity for celiac disease.4 Taken together, the results that emerge from this study lead us to propose just the 2 IgA tTGA and IgG DGP-AGA tests instead of 4 assays (that is IgA tTGA, IgA EmA, IgA AGA, and IgG tTGA) for celiac disease screening. If confirmed by other studies, this strategy will mean both a significant saving of resources and an improvement in diagnostic accuracy for celiac disease."

basilicious Explorer

Thank you for taking the time to share these excerpts, Skylark! :) My alumni access to online research can be a bit testy.

This makes a lot more sense. While I've been focused on the false positive angle, I realize the more important issue from a broader testing perspective is how sensitive IgG DGP is and whether it will detect celiac at various stages. Alone, IgG DGP satisfies the former but possibly not the latter.

This sounds like a major advance in that, between IgG DGP and TTG-IgA, there is not only strong sensitivity but also the ability to detect celiac over time, including early on. Let's hope they soon develop a diagnostic timeline that fully maps out the testing required to effectively detect celiac at all stages...but maybe they're already there with this combo.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Join eNewsletter
    Donate

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):





    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):




  • Recent Activity

    1. - Iam replied to Larzipan's topic in Related Issues & Disorders
      33

      Has anyone had terrible TMJ/ Jaw Pain from undiagnosed Celiac?

    2. - trents replied to Scatterbrain's topic in Sports and Fitness
      6

      Feel like I’m starting over

    3. - bobadigilatis replied to Larzipan's topic in Related Issues & Disorders
      33

      Has anyone had terrible TMJ/ Jaw Pain from undiagnosed Celiac?

    4. - cristiana replied to Scatterbrain's topic in Sports and Fitness
      6

      Feel like I’m starting over


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      132,300
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    Philbin
    Newest Member
    Philbin
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Iam
      Yes.  I have had the tmj condition for 40 years. My only help was strictly following celiac and also eliminating soy.  Numerous dental visits and several professionally made bite plates  did very little to help with symptoms
    • trents
      Cristiana makes a good point and it's something I've pointed out at different times on the forum. Not all of our ailments as those with celiac disease are necessarily tied to it. Sometimes we need to look outside the celiac box and remember we are mortal humans just like those without celiac disease.
    • bobadigilatis
      Also suffer badly with gluten and TMJD, cutting out gluten has been a game changer, seems to be micro amounts, much less than 20ppm.  Anyone else have issues with other food stuffs? Soy (tofu) and/or milk maybe causing TMJD flare-ups, any suggestions or ideas? --- I'm beginning to think it maybe crops that are grown or cured with glyphosphate. Oats, wheat, barley, soy, lentils, peas, chickpeas, rice, and buckwheat, almonds, apples, cherries, apricots, grapes, avocados, spinach, and pistachios.   
    • cristiana
      Hi @Scatterbrain Thank you for your reply.   Some of these things could be weaknesses, also triggered by stress, which perhaps have come about as the result of long-term deficiencies which can take a long time to correct.   Some could be completely unrelated. If it is of help, I'll tell you some of the things that started in the first year or two, following my diagnosis - I pinned everything on coeliac disease, but it turns out I wasn't always right!  Dizziness, lightheaded - I was eventually diagnosed with cervical dizziness (worth googling, could be your issue too, also if you have neck pain?)  A few months after diagnosis I put my neck out slightly carrying my seven-year-old above my head, and never assigned any relevance to it as the pain at the time was severe but so short-lived that I'd forgotten the connection. Jaw pain - stress. Tinnitus - I think stress, but perhaps exacerbated by iron/vitamin deficiencies. Painful ribs and sacroiliac joints - no idea, bloating made the pain worse. It got really bad but then got better. Irregular heart rate - could be a coincidence but my sister (not a coeliac) and I both developed this temporarily after our second Astra Zeneca covid jabs.   Subsequent Pfizer jabs didn't affect us. Brain fog - a big thing for people with certain autoimmune issues but in my case I think possibly worse when my iron or B12 are low, but I have no proof of this. Insomnia - stress, menopause. So basically, it isn't always gluten.  It might be worth having your vitamins and mineral levels checked, and if you have deficiencies speak to your Dr about how better to address them?    
    • knitty kitty
      @NanceK, I do have Hypersensitivity Type Four reaction to Sulfa drugs, a sulfa allergy.  Benfotiamine and other forms of Thiamine do not bother me at all.  There's sulfur in all kinds of Thiamine, yet our bodies must have it as an essential nutrient to make life sustaining enzymes.  The sulfur in thiamine is in a ring which does not trigger sulfa allergy like sulfites in a chain found in pharmaceuticals.  Doctors are not given sufficient education in nutrition (nor chemistry in this case).  I studied Nutrition before earning a degree in Microbiology.  I wanted to know what vitamins were doing inside the body.   Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses.   Not feeling well after starting Benfotiamine is normal.  It's called the "thiamine paradox" and is equivalent to an engine backfiring if it's not been cranked up for a while.  Mine went away in about three days.  I took a B Complex, magnesium and added molybdenum for a few weeks. It's important to add a B Complex with all eight essential B vitamins. Supplementing just one B vitamin can cause lows in some of the others and result in feeling worse, too.  Celiac Disease causes malabsorption of all the B vitamins, not just thiamine.  You need all eight.  Thiamine forms including Benfotiamine interact with each of the other B vitamins in some way.  It's important to add a magnesium glycinate or chelate supplement as well.  Forms of Thiamine including Benfotiamine need magnesium to make those life sustaining enzymes.  (Don't use magnesium oxide.  It's not absorbed well.  It pulls water into the intestines and is used to relieve constipation.)   Molybdenum is a trace mineral that helps the body utilize forms of Thiamine.   Molybdenum supplements are available over the counter.  It's not unusual to be low in molybdenum if low in thiamine.   I do hope you will add the necessary supplements and try Benfotiamine again. Science-y Explanation of Thiamine Paradox: https://hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-with-ttfd-the-glutathione-connection/#google_vignette
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.