gfp

So far as measurable damage then best figure seems to be 4-6 WEEKS....

However that's all a bit relative....

Different symtoms seem to have different timescales and as said it differs p[erson to person BUT I'd also say it differs in a single person according to other health issues.

For me I have a short 1-2 hour delay before stage 1 which is fever and sweating ... and brain fog starts setting in.. then usually 4-6 hours later the cramps and D.... this then cycles for a week or more...

During this time the symptoms come and go.... sometimes I have C and sometimes D....and sometimes I feel otherwise OK.

My mom brought up an interesting point.

I've been to 10 doctors (including 1 GI). All of whom missed the diagnosis. She said I should write to them telling them what was wrong with me. Would they be receptive to that? I obviously have to wait until I'm not as MAD as I am now, but at some point, should I tell them that it wasn't in my head, that they dismissed me prematurely.

I'm still unsure. Any thoughts? Thanx.

It can't hurt so long as you are not hurt by their responses.

Don't expect them to admit mistakes, doctors never do, they bury them....but you might save someone else the same anguish and health problems.

Just don't be upset by their responses or lack of.....

I'd probably add you don't expect an answer and you are just informing them for the benefit of their other patients. That way you won't get nasty lawyers letters back

This is just an observation ... but I only clicked this by accident, I wasn't going to open this thread at all...

Since MommaGoose is one of those complaining about "atmosphere" then this thread does nothing to help...

I realise now its a joke....I didn't until I opened it so I just thought "ho hum..another thread I won't bother with"

if someone wants to copy this then perhaps all those who ignore me can alsdo see this?

Hannahsue,

Relationships are very challenging. I agree that your husband is wrong to be yelling at you and there are issues that you may need counseling to straighten out, just because you need a third party there who is not on one side or the other. I also think your husband is scared and finds it hard to believe. I find it hard to believe that FOOD could have caused all these health issues for me.

As far as not being in the mood, I can totally relate. I've had low thyroid and adrenal glands, but I'm starting to feel human again in this regard. However, you cannot possibly underestimate how important sex is to a man. You have all these things on your list that you want him to do -- supporting you through this illness being one of them, eating gluten-free being another, plus all the normal stuff. If the one thing on his list is being met on nights you don't feel like it, but don't feel too bad for it, then he'll bend over backwards to support you. Trust me on this ... I've been married for 22 years this December ... we've had good times and bad times .... you cannot underestimate how important physical intimacy is to him. And don't consider him shallow for it .... he's just a guy.

I guess at some point I will put in my 2c....but CarlaB has expressed it pretty much as I would have said anyway.

I feel so badly for anyone who has to suffer the wrath of a spouse. It's ridiculous to have a bad attitude toward anyone who is sick.

Yes it is ridiculous but its also natural ...

Most importantly someone said earlier "Yelling is abuse" ....

Well, perhaps but it is also a symptom that something is wrong and i think comparing "yelling" and other forms of abuse is perhaps cheapening abuse. There is yelling and yelling .... and the two are completely different. Someone who yells simply to intimidate the other person is NOT the same as someone who ends up yelling due to frustration.

I'm in no way suggesting that yelling is a good thing, what I'm saying is there is a world of difference between deliberatly setting out to intimidiate people and stress and nono communication building up and ending up yelling.

A primary cause of frustration for men is lack of sex....

Its just a biological fact.... presumably you don't want your man doing the "natural thing" and just having sex whereever he can find it..this is a whole part of marriage is the commitment to one person even though that goes against a man's biological programming. Since this was a subject of arguament I think its a VERY safe bet this has a large part of his frustration....as has been said seeing a councellor is a good start... however I wouldn't suggest any type of councelling that might include absinence. Either people want to abstain or not...

and has been saide by the ex-US surgeon general (though this is paraphrasing) "In all her years in Washington she never met anyone who was well enough qualified in their own sexuality to determine what someone elses should be"

Men are not talkers - they want to problem solve - he cant fix any of this.

Men are not always good at empathy - women are, that is why more women post here - they love to talk it out and support one another with hugs

No need to repeat that!

I eat this kind of stuff all the time. Start with a small amount from the bag. If you have no issues, finish the bag (but still maybe in small amounts until you have eaten enough bags to trust the company). If you ever have an issue, throw out the bag and don't buy from that company again.

I tend to do this myself but IMHO the downside is it can just be bad luck... they changed the runs or something or didn't wash down thoroughly....like the Freetos story above.... you might be fine for 999 bags then you get the bad one.. but then you might be fine after that run is gone for the next 999 again?

Ive come to realise some brands I almost always get sick from (obviously this isn't much help for you guys since I have French brands) but others I rarely do if they issue a CYA....

In the UK I eat walkers crisps (chips to you) and once they issued a warning that some of one flavor had been contaminated with another... only I leanred to late and I managed to find one of those bags... this wouldn't have been half so bad if I wasn't driving!

Sometimes companies stick a CYA even when there is no real chance of contamination and others don't.... unless they think there is a chance. Its all down to individual companies.

https://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodi...-14106143230.b1

This link is straight from the site. Go to the site index and peruse...lots of great info there

As for Beer, New Grist and Bard's Tale are gluten free. I've had New Grist (not bad, but very light). Haven't tried Bard's yet.

*Cheers*

That's a good list but I am certain that some Cognac's add coloring derived from wheat (indeed I have a bottle in my cupboard) ...

The whole grain alcohol issue has been discussed to death... the bottom line is that in some cases some gluten might be transferred ...one bottle might be fine and another from a different batch might not.

Personally I stick to Rums and Tequila (uncolored) for liquor and otherwise drink wine... I do drink cider but Im not 100% certain some types are 100% gluten-free and there is always the problem with draft if they change the pumps.

Also it doesn't agree with me in a non gluten way and gives me GERD.. if I drink a lot.

If you want to be safe then don't take risks... the problem with drinks is we tend to have favorites so its not a one off decision ... if you have a glass a month its one thing but if you like a glass a day its another IMHO...

I just bought a bag of frozen mixed veggies...there's nothing in there but an assortment of vegetables for stiry fry reicpes, but it says in the allergy information section below the ingredients that it is "processed" (they dont' look processed?????) on equipment shared with wheat-containing foods. Now I feel nervous about eating those. We've had them before, but I've been gluten free only 8 months, and it was all so back and forth at the beginning that I'm sure I was probably glutened a few times wihtout knowing it. Lately I've felt better and better all the time, and I really don't wanna take a chance on messing it all up again. So I'm wondering...are these veggies unsafe? They don't look like they have any wheat on them...and could I just put them into a colander and rinse them before using them?

It certainly won't hurt..... I think the risk is small and its just a CYA but.....

the real problem is one batch might be contaminated and another not.... but if you feel up to it you can take the risk and test...

The same thing with a bag of raw brazil nuts. I bought them and then realized they said "processed" on equipment shared with wheat-containing ingredients. So, they don't look powdery or anything...they're just raw, shelled brazil nuts. Should I rinse them first, just go ahead and eat them out of the bag, or should I throw them out?

This sounds like a good rinse is probably fine... I can't promise anything obviously but personally with something like Brazil nuts where you can really give them a good wash and considering its only a chance in the first place I would personally take the risk....

I was starting to think I actually know what I'm doing, but lately I feel paranoid and confused. I think it's because I am feeling really GOOD and now scared of getting all messed up again. I just can't take that anymore. I'm already getting spoiled.

Relax.... if you do get glutened now its just a one off. Im pretty paranoid about gluten but I refuse to let it take over my life...

Once you have reached your healthy position then you will recover much faster... Im not saying flaunt it but you have done the hardest part and you have got the results you KNOW you can do it again and it will be easier from a one-off glutening than a lifetimes....

IMHO the worst glutenings are progressive, its when you are eating something regualrly and continually contaminating yourself more than a one off accident... having said that Ive been almost dead for a week now ... after a silly mistake BUT I know its just a week to put up with and I know I can recover at the ther end.

IMHO, you are now an expert.... that is why you are looking into things deeper. You are in control now .... and doesn't it feel good!

Personally I'd say try the veggies and in future just try and find another brand...

Thanks sooo much for all the advice. I've never been to Umbria; spent a month near Milan once upon a time, and got to see Venice and Tuscany then, but this will be new. Also, I didn't get to Rome last time so it is a MUST for a weekend.

I honestly can't get enough of Rome....its a unique city and the city today still has the same stamp on the drain covers and public notices etc. it had 2000 years ago....whatever your interests Rome has something ....

I know of one gluten-free hotel which is pretty expensive, right next to the American Embassay (Hotel Alexandra) ... food and wine is good.(but thats pretty much true of Rome)... but I don't really like expensive hotels ... makes vacation feel like work for me and in most cases you could be anywhere! We stopped in a small B&B near Terminus (actually we have stopped in several) but one of them was really cool in that you could use the kitchen.(I can try and look it up if you like).. pans are really cheap in Italy and we were also camping so we had our own little gluten-free haven ... lunch is always the hardest thing to find if you are like me and spend the whole day wandering... I find if I try and plan gluten-free lunches I spend an inordinate amount of time just looking for places whereas eating at night you can make a proper reservation but my gluten-free success rate was pretty good! (it was summer and salads were an easy option, actually it was 110 deg so it was the only practical option) Pharmacies sell gluten-free pasta etc. but I just didn't bother.... I mean you can have a proper sit down meal with wine in a gluten-free resto.... so its not worth it for me....

Another B&B we stayed in had a room with a huge terrace ... being summer we bought wine and antipasti like artichokes and proccutio .. reggiano de parmegiano and (oooh Im dribbling) ..... we just rebooked it for my friends sister...and she's going to be there next week. You need to ask specifically for room 9 though.... the rest of the rooms are fine but this one is the "special room" ... huge bathroom and all with provate balcony.

If you stop near terminus you are next to the transport systems .... both subway lines and several busses. These are really useful for going to some of the far flung gluten-free places and not wasting valuable time wandering round in awe .....

I'm actually flying into and out of Milan, both from the US, and on to Berlin at the end of the trip. So if you have any recommendations for Milan, I'd love to hear them, too.

Sorry Milan is on my list .....of paces to still visit. The train service though (Eurostar class) between Rome and Milan is excellent.... (NO gluten-free THOUGH) the regional railways are as bad as all the jokes about Italian organisation .... but the intercity routes, especially Eurostar are completely modern and unlike anytihng you have in the US.... they are almost as good as the French TGV service .. and I say almost because the TGV is just much larger .... 200 mph+ trains which are like being on a plane except there is no noise.or vibration. (you have to try it, its spooky) when you look out of the window and see Italians driving at what you know is 120mph+ and you pass them like they are standing still you will realise what I mean....

Play about on the Open Original Shared Link for instance Milan to Rome is 4 1/2 hours....(488 kms) or 370 miles.......

Rome Orvieto is only 59 mins! if you get the Eurostar...

I've heard the olive oil from Umbria is amazing. My family's stockings are going to be stuffed full with it this Christmas. As will my own. I was thinking of nosing around for some porcini, too. Not that dried ones are hard to find anywhere, but maybe the real italian variety will have some kind of magic.

Many places will vacuum seal them for you (which you need to take them back to the US) the same for cheese so make sure you grab some Parmesan while you are in Milan.... It honestly has nothing in common with the US stuff they call Parmesan... believe me you won't want to grate it

Orvieto itself is meant to be amazing................a friend of mine almost wouldn't speak to me when we decided we didn't have time to visit...

The local white wines are renowned and Orvietto itself is a CittaSlow

Cittaslow, (literally Slow City in English) is a movement founded in Italy in October of 1999. The inspiration of Cittaslow was the Slow Food organization; Cittaslow's goals include improving quality of life in towns while resisting the homogenization and Americanization of cities, where standardized franchise stores dominate. Celebrating and supporting diversity of culture and the specialities of a town and its hinterland are core Cittaslow values.

Hey, if you have any tips for Berlin let me know! Now that I'm not worried about food, I can't wait to go.

Berlin, sorry don't really know

I don't drink at all anymore so I can't help you.

What is it in Europe, the codex standard or something, where certain ppm of gluten are considered acceptable on a gluten-free diet? I don't agree with this, but there are people that do. Maybe those particular beers fall under so many ppm (parts per million) of gluten.

Yep and I think if people knew what the CODEX is then they would be less trusting ....

Its not a conspiracy, all the information is on the WHO website.... its just noone seems to bother to actually read it...

The Codex is written by the food industry so the standards in it are determined by the food industry which then seeks to justify them. The 200ppm limit was not based on health issues it was based on what could cheaply be screened ... and represented the lower limit of cheap non instrumentation testing...this isn't because more accurate testing wasn't available but that more accurate testing costs 10x to 100x more... so it was chosen as a purely practical limit for the food manufacturers to be able to abide by.

It was then up to the food industry to justify this limit was safe.... which they did by paying for studies that said it was safe. If the study suggested it wasn't they just don't use that study. If you think this is unlikely the tobacco industry did the same successfully for 50 yrs.

Open Original Shared Link

Endorsement of Methods of Analysis Provision in Codex Standards

A report of the ad hoc Working Group on endorsement of methods was presented by the Chair, Dr. Roger Wood (United Kingdom). The Committee endorsed the methods as proposed with amendments and comments. Much of the discussion on this agenda item focused on method to test for gluten in gluten free foods. The Committee agreed to endorse the R5 ELISA method for gluten as a Type I method.

How do you all do it everyday.

Honestly ... we just do.

If you think about it, how do you remember to breath.... how can a human calculate where to hit a ball to knock another into a pool table pocket. --- how do you ride a bike?

Riding a bike seems aweful hard at first.... so does skiing .. but people do it and then it becomes second nature.

When I put on ski's I don't think about standing up...I just think about the snow and the slopes... not falling over just happens.... the first time I put on ski's I just fell over ... then stood up and started going backwards through a whole set of tables and chairs at a cafe.... actually standing up was more than I could do.... but I got up and I watched others and thought... they are not even trying.... it just happens...

gluten-free is the same i promise... it seems so hard but once you do it it really does become second nature.

Right now you are spending the whole time just trying to stand up..... in a few months you won't even need to think about that and you can look at all the wonderful scenery... or start enjoying it!

After reading a scientific study (I think swedish study) that actually measured the amount of gluten in many popular beers, I started to take my chances--many of the beers were below the limit at which one would say the product contained gluten. I am not super sensitive, though and I do not react to cross contamination either. Drinking a beer most definately does not effect me like eating a slice of bread--it's not really all or nothing for me, I guess--because many beers contains very low levels of gluten and they don't bother me the same way eating a crouton would...except unfiltered beers--they kill me.

The actual protein content of most beers is pretty low but I don't think that means there is a safe limit.

As you say you don't react to CC either I suspect that like most of us you react on split levels.....

Those of us that try 100% gluten-free... (including CC) for a reasonable period mainly all find that they had symptoms they didn't realise. Going gluten-free -lite can mean that some symptoms dissapear but that others we don't even recognise do not until we go 100% gluten-free.

In nearly all cases we didn't realise that we had those symptoms until they dissapeared. Hence lots of people might say they have no symptoms and truly believe it BUT most people who try discover they were wrong.

I am certainly in this group ..... it just took me a long time to admit it to myself.

On the other hand if I am glutened I react more than when I was constantly dripfeeding gluten

Personally, I believe in better safe than sorry. For what it's worth, I absolutely don't think that you are being too careful. I do the same for myself, and it keeps me from getting sick.

I hate when people say "I know someone who...." and try to use that to disprove the evidence that CC is an issue. I think that most of us can name someone who smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish, but lived into their 90's or beyond. Does that mean that it's ok for everyone to do that? I hardly think so.

IMO, tell them to stuff it and just keep doing what you are doing. If they don't believe you, have them read some posts on this site or read some of the information that has convinced you that CC is a danger. Heck, once I made myself sick because I made gluten-free brownies in a pan that I had used for regular baking. It can happen.

IMHO great advice from everyone so far... but I love that comparison...

Dog food is .. well eaten by dogs, not the most sophisticated eaters! There is literally no way you can explain to the dog it hurts you... and dogs have a habit of trying to hide bits of food, especailly hard biscuits etc. or crunching them up and getting crumbs everywhere.

It claimes a crum will not make you sick, but that it takeas about 1/8th of a wheat thin cracker to do damage.

Actually it doesn't if you read it carefully.... it says a single molecule is "unlikely" to survive but that an 1/8.... is enough...it doesn't actually say a crumb will not. Actually I really like that article, Ive posted it myself a few times but I think this particualr part is misleading.

My mind is wondering what type is right..

I am just trying to make sence of all of this. I am sorry if I am being difficult.

Not at all.... an I understand why its so confusing, heck most of us feel the same...

However I have personally been glutened from much less than a crumb...there isn't much protein in beer (about 2% depending on the beer) but I have been glutened by accidentally tasting it...and spitting it out.

The same goes for wheat starch which should have almost no residual protein ...I am 100% sure about this because I "blind tested" .. that is before the new labelling laws were implemented I had lists of items from sliced ham to medicines I knew made me sick. When the new EU labelling laws came in then my list of over 200 items was 100% containing traces of gluten... (In Europe dextrines and maltodextrines are often from wheat) ... however the amount of gluten in these is a "trace" ... certainly much less than a crumb!

Which type is correct?

I think its as much a matter of how strict people are.... and your story is so typical.

I certainly started off with the idea I was not going to be ultra sensitive and Im stubborn. I got much better going gluten free lite.... and just had niggling problems.

However when I finally went gluten-free... the whole way I found I had symptoms I had never identified... this is when lots of funny things went away.

Now when I get glutened by the tiniest amount I react more violently... like a smoker who has quit for 20 years smoking a full pack of cigs...

IMHO that is because the body tries to process out the gluten as a toxin... like smoking its something you can get used to and even develop a dependancy on. In other words if you constantly trickle gluten in your body gets accustomed to coping with it.

Who is correct?

Well does that mean that its doing damage.... and I think honestly noone can say.

The first thing to consider is that in the last 5 years far more aspects of celiac disease have been linked from neuropathy to adrenal and thyroid related....

So even if its not damaging the villi that doesn't mean other damage is not being done

However I don't think its possible to say if it is damaging the villi or not...because villi self repair and die naturally anyway. However the rate at which they are forced to do this is important...

In an extreme example imagine a animal with great regenerative powers like a crab or starfish.. of you cut off a limb it grows back.... however if you cut a limb off every day it will die ..it can't regenerate fast enough....

This is what I beleive happens with the villi in pre-symptomatic celiac.... we just grow back faster than they are destroyed BUT this leads to other problems like cancer because the cells are not designed to replicate so quickly...equally the immune system is constantly being stressed...

In the end I have to agree exactly with the "but aunt Eidee smoked 60 a day and drank like a fish up to her 110th birthday ... " comment.

There are drinkers and smokers who point to some distant relative to justify their habits as "not unhealthy or aunt eidee would have died earlier" ... in the same way many celiacs want to believe that a bit of gluten is OK... others claim to be "cured".... because...

"Man will willingly believe what he wants"

Wow, this is fantastic! I had no idea. I guess they're alot more advanced than the US on this front, huh? Now I really can't wait!

Unless your Italian is good then I suggest taking a free dining card (you can take a pay one but I honestly don't think its worth it for Italy, its not like you are introducing a new concept for them and the card from celaic travel is more than adequate IMHO....) Open Original Shared Link

Also Roger and Lindsey are outstanding people and do this all for free ... so much as I might say to buy one of the professional ones for Katmandu or Ulan Bator I don't think you'll need that for Italy... (OMG I am so jealous ....)

When you are going home make sure to take as much olive oil as you can find.... Umbria has some of the best Olive oil and its far cheaper for the same quality as Tuscan.(Il Fachioni El casolari is a good buy but your hosts will doubtless have recommendations) ... leave plenty of room for wine though too......

Wow... your going to love it....

If your flying into Rome are you stopping over, I have a few resto recommendations one inparticular was excellent and dirt cheap.... its out of the centre at polyclinico.... looks like nothing much but as we sat and ate people were driving from all over to go there!

Always try and phone ahead for the resto's, especially if you want gluten-free pizza.... some of them will only prepare to order...

Are you going to travel? I mean you can't not go to Rome... many of the trains are pretty good on the principal routes...and dirt cheap....

Italy is a celaic's dream.....

Children are all screened pre-school hence 1:200 people are diagnosed in Italy so everyone knows someone.

Even though Orvieto is a small villiage (about 20,000) this still means 100 diagnosed celaics in that villiage.

The Italian Celaic soc actually tests and gives window stickers to celaic friendly resto's....here is the Umbria page.

Open Original Shared Link

As you can see there is a gluten free pizzeria

Open Original Shared Link

indirizzo:

P.zza S. Giovenale,6

città:

Orvieto (TR)

Tel./Fax:

0763.340641

Persona/e di riferimento:

Grisci Cristina

Chiusura / Note:

chiuso lun e-mail: info@alsangiovenale.it

Prezzo min/max:

10 (pizza)/35€

I have found that once you find one you can ask about and they will have other friends who might not be specifically gluten-free but they can talk to .... obviously it helps to have decent Italian but you can also print out the guides on the celaic assoc site to show them.

Yea Steve, Celia's right. That was great!

I'm fascinated by what you said about the Immodium. So, it actually helps in other ways than just stopping D?

Well the theory is sound, immodium binds to the endorphin receptors as does gluten....

Its known gluten damages them.... and it seems logical that if they are already bound to immodium then they won't bind to gluten....

perhaps its only placebo ......

Yesterday, I was trying out a new hair salon--of course, my stomach began to act up just as I was about to leave the house. I popped 2 Immodium caplets, I really think both for the cramping and the piece of mind that I wouldn't be "caught" while getting my hair cut.

I also carry some with me at all times

Yep well if it works, it works! It seems to work for me but depression and withdrawal are SO SUBJECTIVE! It definately controls the D and perhaps being in control of that helps all by itself or perhaps they actually work beyond placebo.... and since immodium is about as harmless as drugs ever get its not a bad start IMHO....

In the same light, some people say they don't experience withdrawal....personally I think they just can't tell the difference in timing... some people drink heavily and stop for no reason .. for instance the bar they used to hang out in closes... and they just go out less or have a kid or ....

Some people recognise an addiction, others feel nothing at all but the body is acclimatising and adjusting non-the-less. I don't feel much in the way of altitude discomfort below 15,000' ... and certainly don't suffer altitude sickness ... at 10-12,000 feet I'm happy to go running and do stressful activity like very extreme skiing and climbing 2000' or more to ski or board down some virgin snow.... many people find a climb at this altitude at my pace impossible... I have freaky blood apparently.... HOWEVER.... that doesn't mean that 2 weeks later my body hasn't adjusted....

I personally don't feel much, I have been with people who have altitude sickenss at 10,000'.... I can't even imagine that! However if I ran a 10k at 10,000 feet my times would be worse ... and 1 week later would start to improve .... so just because I don'ty feel it doesn't mean its not happening.

Wow your BF sounds like a lucky guy .............

You wouldn'y believe unless you read them all the posts here from people who's significant others refuse to accept celiac disease.

Contrary to a few posts I don't think anything is seriously wrong with your BF... although I can see why you are concerned. I can't give you black n white answers but I can tell you a few things that might help.

1) Depression is a common symptom of celiac disease .... for several reasons..

Firstly gluten belongs to a class of drugs called exorphins, these are drugs that mimic the bodies own mood control system via endorphins. In a celaic the "barriers" can be damaged or "leaky" between the gut and blood and/or blood/brain. In other words the gluten components can slip though the normal barrier ... the regualtor for this is zonulin ( Open Original Shared Link )

When gluten acts as an exorphin it binds to the endorphin receptors, just like opiates ... however unlike opiates it fits poorly and damages the receptors. When it finally is removed the receptor can no longer accept endorphins so the bodies mood control system is screwed up.

I personally believe that many of the symptoms of glutening are actually not from the glutening itself BUT the withdrawal phase. That is once these receptors are damaged the symptoms can continue without gluten until they are repaired and that takes time.

One thing I have found that helps ME.... is taking a load of opiates... obviously we have to function so one opiate which is custom made not to get you high is loperamide ... commonly sold as immodium.

I find particualrly the sub-lingual works well, I guess this gets it into the bloodstream as well as digestive tract. The liquid form apparently contains gluten so that's out so its capsules or sublingual..I often do both as SOON AS POSSIBLE (I carry sublingual around just in case). My theory is that letting the loperamide bond to the endorphin receptors protects them against binding to gluten. This is all theory because noone has clinically trialed it .. but the theory is sound and normal doses of loperamide have no real negative effects... heck it might be placebo... but seriously who cares! (The fact they also control the explosive diarrea and cramps is a bonus)

Secondly post diagnosis is a fragile time. Guys and high achieving guys inparticular feel immasculated by the complete removal of control. As guys we want to be able to do something useful to help ourselves and in most cases the information we get from MD's is simply confusing and dismissive. By this I mean we are not given the information we need to be constructive BUT it is in our nature to want to do something.

(before the ladies get het up here I'm not saying women don't feel this too, I'm just saying it is amplified for guys)

Thirdly, as is pointed out nutrition also plays a role in depression. One of the easiest and constructive things to do about this is supplimentation of vitamin B6 and B12 ....

Fourthly, the symptoms are somewhat distasteful. Its not the sort of thing most people want to discuss with a significant other.... (or even doctors) ... Let me just say this... I have been "caught out" trousers round ankles in public restrooms cutting away my underwear..... not once but quite a few times... yes, its funny... actually no its not.. but eventually you just gotta laugh! This very feeling of lack of control adds to the depression.

Fifth .. Its REALLY TIRING ......... I don't get really bad cramps .. mostly it just feels like someone has put one of those electric stomach exersize machines on by lower abdomen .... I swear somewhere int here is something trying to communicate in morse code.... tap..tap.... da da de da da..... Its like chinese water torture .. it doesn't actually HURT like a broken arm or so its just a CONSTANT NAGGING ...

This brings me into

2) Other effects of gluten

Its well documented that many autism spectrum people benefit from gluten-free diets and far more than the statistical average have celiac disease.

On top of this many of us exhibit some or all of the personality traits of these "diseases", I say diseases but they are no more diseases than being a different skin color... you are just born with some differences to the statistical norm. Neither is this a fixed scale, much as psychaitrists would like to pigeon hole people ... its more a sliding spectrum with neurologically typical at one end and non NT at the other, indeed were the world not run by the majority NT's then the majority would see that there are an equal number of NON NT's at the other end of the scale.

OK... why am I telling you this.....???

Firstly, you might not like my analogy..... please just read it anyway because the analogy is just an analogy ...

Well imagine its a sliding scale, a bit like sexuality where some people are born 100% hetero-sexual and others 100% homosexual... the majority of people however exhibit some expression of one or the other, even a tiny part. (I watched Kinsey, the film again so that's the reason for this analogy) however if you want you can extend the analogy to say a celaic who is diagnosed in mid-life is a bit like some middle aged married guy finally finding out he's gay... suddenly everything is turned upside down and the world where we live is equally shaken about and turned upside down.... for instance suddenly we a part of a minority ... in many cases we have previously cracked a few jokes about "fad eaters" and "health freaks" and suddenly we are plunged into a world where we need to read every label and give precise instrictions to servers.... add to this in many cases our families and closest friends don't understand NOR WANT to understand.... because what we are doing is culturally abherent ... all our lives we have been taught WHEAT = HEALTHY ... WHEAT = HOMELY and even WHEAT = BODY OF CHRIST..... its buried deep into our cultural memory....

If you don't like the above analogy then think instead of a lifelong Republican from a family of Republicans who suddenly starts thinking universal healthcare and education are important human rights for everyone. If you don't like that just swap round Republican and Democrat....

All our precepts are suddenly challenged ... wheat is no longer healthy, its a poision but all the people we know laugh... because they have yet to see the light... except.... its not like they are going to see the light because we only have perceptions that WHEAT=POISON because we were born in a minority and all our families and friends are in the majority.

Its a helpless situation.... so lets add this together....

We are as celiacs susceptible to gluten altering our mood and feelings. In many cases (like for me) a glutening pushes me into a direction along that spectrum ...

Now image just for a second that glutening did the same to our sexuality..... imagine a fundamentally straight guy who wakes up next to some other guy because of something he ate? Or if you like some hardline Republican/Democrat waking up having just signed a set of documents for something he finds abherent.....

THIS IS WHERE ANALOGY ENDS.....

This is what I do when glutened..... I say things I would never normally say and offend people I would not usually care to offend...I push away people I love and love me because I can't cope with the sensory overload it generates.....

If you search this forum for "brain fog" you will start to see.

For me its almost like an "inbody-outa body experience" .. its not a exactly looking down in myself situation but more a feeling I'm controlling myself by remote control and the batteries are almost done....while at the same time I'm trying to write a dissertation or something.

Actually controlling myself is a lot of effort... mostly I am lost in an inner world .. melancholy and from others perspective non-communicative but my body seems to have an inbuiilt autopilot.... with the slight course corrections it functions, answers questions and picks up drinks., eats etc.... BUT what it cannot do is enagage in meaningful conversation... to do this I must stop the other task and pull myself out of this safe world and into the real one. This takes effort and is incomplete..... what is missing ?

What is missing is built in safeguards..... I say things I know are true without any conception of controlling it...

an example with work might be telling my boss what i think of his idea.... instead of tactfully finding something else or changing subject or finding the one saving grace in his idea......

Don't misunderstand, I can still do this BUT the effort concerned is enormous....and it feels like walking the length of the Rockies to pick up 1c I dropped when I walked the other direction. The effort just seems insurmountable compared to the reward ... and when I think about it I can find a 1c coin on the street so why go back and walk 1000 miles to try and find the one I lost.... so in effect I say thhe think and think about deferring the consequences.

So imagine his perspectives are screwed... he knows withdrawal is not good but he also knows the consequences are not immediate..noone cut off the gas or electricity YET and when they do he can pay and be reconnected.

So in the case of your BF.....

It sounds like he is withdrawn .... BUT he proably doesn't want to be completely alone BUT he finds being completely alone easier than dealing with conversation.

Keep after your man. Don't be a nag - you sound too nice to be like that anyway. But remember, people with a chronic condition can interpret any help as "meddling".

Taking the advice of RKB_MD ....I agree but being a nag to me when Im glutened just means talking to me....

I don't really want to have to be completewly alone (though I don't mind) I just don't want to have to deal with the stimuli and I want to offset and defer the consequences....

In many ways I can just say things to shut up the person speaking.... because its annoying to have to concentrate to converse.. so I just say something which will end the conversation in a row.... then I can sulk and be alone!

This IMHO is what your BF is doing now.....

IMHO.... send hima note or Email .... tell him you think he needs time to adjust and if he doesn't want to discuss it then that is also fine. Tell him you simply want to be with him and WILL MAKE NO DEMANDS on his time/attention until he is ready. (you need to be prepared to do this obviously).... and if he wants to spend a week or a month just being a couch potato that's fine.....

Explain about withdrawal ... let him see an end..... tell him that the B complex will speed this up and perhaps immodium will offset it slightly.

Practically.. DO NOT FORCE HIM TO DEAL WITH LIFE.... he will push you away.....

If you have the money, pay the bills for him .... (he can pay you back later) but don't force him to deal with them.... REDUCE HIS SENSORY OVERLOAD..... throw out all his junk mail .....he doesn't need to deal eith it... DO NOT PILE UP LETTERS ....

Take the important stuff... write out the cheques to pay and get him to sign.... he probably won't even care to check! If he doesn't want you throwing out mail then stick all the mail into three boxes....

URGENT..... 'important non urgent' and junk...... he will probably have several priorities himself.... BUT he will not want to discuss the details!

I hope that helps cast a perspective ...........

I hope you can see some practical things you can do..... you sound like a lovely girlfriend to have and your determination to help just needs making less imposing for him.

my daughter and I have just been diagnosed with celiacs within the last couple of months. We have been gluten free for 9 months. My family is large I have 6 kids and my husband and myself. My daughter Shayna and myself are the only ones gluten free. I have to prepare all the meals as my husband is working a fulltime job and going to school full time. The rest of the family are not yet ready to eat gluten free. I have changed a few of my recipes to be gluten free however my family is hooked on my home made breads and rolls.these are the things they are not ready to give up and are a dilema for me. I try to wash my hand after but it is extremly difficult not only not to keep from getting contaminated but also to not contaminate my daughter when I prepare our meal. The smell of my cooking drives me insane because it smells so good and I know I can't have it. My daughter doesn't seem to be bothered by it. Does anyone have any tips for me. How can I get my family to be gluten free. I am very overwhelmed.

You have gotten some good advice so far.............

You don't say how old Shayna is so I don't know whether her being bothered is your concern or hers. There comes a time when if she doesn't want to be gluten-free there isn't much you can do about it...

I have to prepare all the meals as my husband is working a fulltime job and going to school full time.

I don't see why? I worked and went to school full time and did all my own cooking, laundry and all ....

My freezer was my friend in this....

I try to wash my hand after but it is extremly difficult not only not to keep from getting contaminated but also to not contaminate my daughter when I prepare our meal.

If you are using flour then its practically impossible.... what happens to the flour on your clothes, in the air?

If you vacuum it will just spread it through the air....

Until I know the ages of the kids its hard to give the best advice.... I don't know what current guidlines say about kids cooking at whatever age but I was cooking at 9-10 so unless you have twins you must have kids old enough to do their own cooking ....of course then they need to do their own washing and cleaning up.... they may decide they prefer gluten free????

The rest of the family are not yet ready to eat gluten free. I have changed a few of my recipes to be gluten free however my family is hooked on my home made breads and rolls.these are the things they are not ready to give up and are a dilema for me.

Well if you get a seperate area you can have the kids or hubby buy decent bread.... and let them make their own sandwiches...I kinow its not the same but.....??? look at it this way... you could have a disease that stops you doing anything ... you shouldn't feel selfish for protecting your health...

I'm sure it will cause some furore... families get used to work being done for them.... I do all the cooking at home and my girlfriend gets very upset when I suggest she cooks.... when she was at university she lived with 2 guys and did all the cooking (unless I visitied) ... she has just got used to it.... (my fault)

Hi!

I know this is the travel forum, but you may want to go into the international room and post in some of the Aussie threads, there may actauly be some people from Melbourne there.

As far as genral places go, Muffin break do a gluten free muffin, The coffee club have a chocolate biscuit. these places can be found in shopping centres. Also many of our Mcdonalds have Mcafes attached and they will have a gluten free cake or tart ( they can be sold out if you are there later at night tho).

You may also find restaurunts by doing a google search for gluten-free places in Melbourne.

It is one of the biggest cities in this country, so I don't think you will have any trouble.

Also just be warned that some of the things that are gluten-free In US are NOT in here in Oz.

M&m and Cheetos are two of things that I can think of at the moment.

Melbourne isn't so much the problem as travelling .... my girlfriends grandma is pretty gluten aware.. she is always sending recipes but my girlfriend is more worried if we hire a car and drive up the East coast what to expect....I don't want to be a winging pom in every place we try and stop....

I had hoped to drive up the coast road right up into Queensland and hopefully along the reef and do some diving but Im not sure what to expect.... I seem to find 2 types of photo's, staggering beautiful scenery and upmarket hotels ... though I guess I can just take a tent and camp???

Technically yeast does NOT contain gluten.... its an organism HOWEVER... it can be grown (cultured) using gluten containing products hence CC can occur.....

As far as wines go I try and stick to naturally infected ones where the yeast is NOT added to the wine but is naturally occuring in the soil, vines and walls of the winery.

This is a bit complex....

The main point is that overall my health is much better .... 300 odd days a year I feel better than I ever did BUT when I do get glutened it hits me harder. That is I seem to have further to fall...... BUT overall the health improves faster....

My villi are I presume in good health and my nutrient adsorbtion good so when I get glutened its like being knocked of a pedestal BUT its much easier to climb back on it....

The feeling of being knocked off the pedestal is still bad.... but I KNOW I can climb back on AND I know my overall health is better so my body can concentrate on repairing the damage.

I think its easy to confuse this ... one just gets used to feeling lousy... or feeling good .. when your feeling lousy you don't really notice the ups and downs so much because you are overall lousy but when your good you notice straight away.

Steve, It was all in English ... the link to me to a Ricardo Ramirez gallery, but it was all in English.

Click on the Spanish flag (some of it is still in English since my Spanish is really bad! .. waiting on an Artist is like waiting on....???)

But also the two previous expo's (left column at bottom are all in spanish cos I copied the text) and am waiting to translate it to English and French...

seriously Carla, lots of Spanish if you click on Gallery (or Galeria) or the link you see the photo's i took... Open Original Shared Link

about 6-7 are not mine but from a previous catalog at the National Museum of art ... (Peurto Rico)

Where have you been hiding????! I've missed you around here!!

Carla, I have been a little busy.... not to mention other things going on here ..???

anyway if you want to practice your Spanish you can see what I have been up to ...

Open Original Shared Link

incidentally almost all the photography is mine as well ... this in itself took a while!

We are staying with my girlfriends grandma over XMAS but we have an opportunity to travel after... though at the moment we need to book the return flights too.

Can anyone suggest an itinery.... something not too expensive and hopefully where we can find self catering easily?

I had thought of driving up to Queensland and spending new year on the reef???

I'm meant to be spending X-MAS in the Melbourne suburbs with my girlfriends family.....g'ma etc.

However I want to see more but my girlfriend is nervous of travelling with my celiac disease. Or perhaps she just doesn't want to... who can tell ....

anyway afdter spending a day on a plane and a day back I'd like to see some neat stuff like the barrier reef or deserts....

can anyone give tips? How practical is it to travel gluten-free? Whre should I see?

I'm just wondering if when you are Celiac/gluten Intolerant and your man is not & you're tryign to get pregnant should he go gluten-free for the duration? I gotta believe that if you're ingesting gluten your bodily fluids have at least traces. If it does, how would this affect you?

This has been discussed at some length .... search for altoids on the forum

IMHO the risk of contamination elsewhere is much greater.... just preparing food or cross contamination (search for cross contamination as well)

So while I think it needs to be said that if you are eating together and using the same pans and dishcloths the chance of contamination is much higher...