gfp

In On Our Minds, Stephen Pinker discusses the heritability of many human personality traits that are generally considered to be acquired.

Clearly, if you breed animals for certain traits, other traits may become uncontrolled. So a dog bred for appearance may be vicious or stupid or nervous. Why is it considered that people are exempt from this? People often choose to marry partners who have similar personality traits, and if this is heritable, it is passed to the children more effectively than the effects of childrearing.

The book was very controversial, but after having read it, I'd have to say that most of the controversy seemed to be carried on by people who hadn't read the book.

Yes I think we rather treat humans as a special case (I bet the dolphins think the same about them) ... and yet we breed passive animals (and agressive ones) .. humans can perhaps cover up the excesses better than dogs but they are still there below the surface and in the genes.

I think this is a very close analogy to the "domestication of humans" ... those whom adapted best to "city life" (when that meant 1000 people) presumably did better ... those who didn't ended up as village idiots and outcasts.

Individualism had no part in a feudal system ... etc.

The inbred herding ability of collies is more than aquired. Its a specialisation of the wolf's instinct to a very high degree. Domesticiating foxes is very much harder... (but has been done)...

However some fox litters inexplicably do not leave the litter and actually stay and bring up the next cubs...

The start of pack mentality? How about those that become comfortable in cities? Is this also hereditory or aquired or both?

Who are these two Vikings?

Harold Hadrara and Duke William (Guillaume) of Normandy

Harold is referred to as a "Saxon" but his mother was Gytha Thorkelsdóttir, said to be the granddaughter of the legendary Viking Styrbjörn Starke and great-granddaughter to Harold Bluetooth, king of Denmark and thus also ancestor to King Canute. (his predecessor and another Viking)

He married 2 Danes himself...So as you can see the idea of them being even Saxon is pretty messed up ...as he had far more Viking blood than saxon...

Rather interesting stuff.

What I also found interesting that I learned about recently is that Irish Setters (the dog) are known to have Celiac. Supposedly this is what nearly brought them to extinction. The addition of wheat as a filler in dog food nearly brought them in.

I have no idea how this could possibly be related at all, but I did find it rather ironic with the talk of Irish genes and celiac.

Mike

They are also quite strange dogs .... lovely but strange temperaments and many suffer mental conditions perhaps not so far from autism spectrum .... they can be quite intellegent and yet do the stupiest things .. forget what they are doing and joyfully start something else like running in circles for 30 mins...

I wholeheartedly agree about the exercise-- not only will it help you with the weight & the diabetic tendencies, but it will improve your mood. There are studies that show regular exercise outperforms prozac!

Somewhat ironic that prozac doesnt exactly encourage getting out and doing active things

.I know, it sounds strange, who wouldn't prefer a cookie over some fruit..

I know this sounds funny but really almost everyone who gets into the habit....

once you make the mental connections between feeling peckish and fruit then that is what comes to mind... if you actually TRY and imagine cookies and painful cramps and stuff you can soon make a mental connection between the 2

For most of us this comes naturally over time but you can accelerate it by taking 10 mins every morning and think about the worst glutening ... and then think of cookies and such for 10 mins...

Before long you can actually start thinking of cookies and you will start also thinking of cramps and D ...

Dear RebeccaMSL,

It is actually quite normal to have a severe reaction such as yours after avoiding gluten. By you avoiding gluten, it was cleansed from your system. Once you eat it again after so long, your body treats it like a poison. That is why the severe reaction occurs. Just make sure you avoid it as completely as you can. As they say, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

Imagine a 60 per day smoker... they poision themselves all day everyday and obviously their health suffers but take a 60 a day ex-smoker and get them to smoke 60 cig's straght and they will be vomiting before the end of the first packet.

The body adapts to the toxin and processing it...

The "where does all that food go?" issue was a big joke in my family for years, but now I think we're all having second thoughts about it!

eleep

Floridanative

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Thanks Ursula for the advice, very much appreciated.

I think I might be able to sneak some gluten free ingredients. The pasta will be tough because they will know that I can't eat regular pasta. They will know something is up.

Excuse me BUT SO FREAKIN WHAT!

I'll say this straight....

If you cook gluten containing food you ARE poisioning yourself ....

If you had the energy, two sets of pans, two sets of washing up stuff and two sets of cooking utensils AND you are very diligent AND you are very lucky ... you might just get away with it.

You can't bake or use flour at all.... you will breath it in and solids breathed in eventually get moved back up and down into the stomach. You can't just get it out from under your nails... if you use the same toaster its impossible ... if you use the same dishcloth it will transfer gluten.

Professional kitchens are regualted to using different color chopping boards and knives for red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables.

Why is this?

Well is there any harm in cutting up some beef and then using the same board and knife to chop vegetables for are going to cook with the meat?

No.... of course not... I mean the next thing you do is stick them together in a pan.

The reason is because people are only human and we make mistakes.

It is absolutely imperative that your husband supports you in this.

Personally I let no gluten in my house! (except as follows)

If my girlfriend wants to eat it in the house then its on throwaway plates and forks. (knives I permit since they can be cleaned just using some kitchen roll) and she disposes of pizza boxes, takeaway cartons etc. indide a plastic bag which is then tied.

She keeps a few things like cookies in sealed ziplock bags but NOT in the kitchen EVER.

You might think this is extreme but my girlfriend is absolutely fine with it.... WHY? Because I am a moody, lethargic SOB when I get glutened! I do 90% of the cooking anyway but she loves baking me gluten-free carrot cake or treats.. I don't relly eat much cake anyway but its special when she makes it....

She eats pasta out (she works in an Italian deli/resto) and she gets to bring food home but it is sealed and then sealed again in ziplock....

What you need to do is stop making gluten free a trial and make it a lifestyle.

Breakfast is my toughest meal. I haven't grasped the concept as my doctor would say, forget all you know about breakfast. Just eat, even if it is left over gluten-free dinner. But breakfast in my mind is... bagels, english muffins, toast, pancakes, french toast, in a box already made by Thomas, Lenders, Eggo or Aunt Jermina (sad isn't it, not even eggs hit the list, but really what is an overeasy egg without toast). But I will stock up on fruit and nuts and try to grasp that will be my new breakfast (if I have time, maybe an occassional omellette).

I have to ask... if you are a stay at home mom then you need to make some time... you can't do this while your ill and have no energy... if you are working then WHY ARE YOU COOKING?

Either way...

You can make eggs florentine

I just copied this gluten recipee

1 (10 oz.) pkg. frozen leaf spinach

6 tomato slices

3 whole wheat English muffins, split and toasted

6 poached eggs

Tarragon sauce

Paprika

Cook spinach according to package directions, omitting salt; drain well. Place a tomato slice on each muffin half. Spoon an equal amount of spinach over each slice; top with a poached egg. Spoon 2 tablespoons Tarragon Sauce over each egg; sprinkle with paprika. Yield: 6 servings (about 222 calories per serving).

TARRAGON SAUCE:

1/2 c. reduced-calorie mayonnaise

3 tbsp. water

2 to 3 tsp. lemon juice

1 tsp. prepared mustard

1/4 tsp. dried whole tarragon

1/8 tsp. white pepper

Just make a bed out of the spinach and leave out the muffin .... or you can alsways get a gluten-free muffin but why bother.

Obviously use gluten-free mayo.... and if you prefer grill some bacon as well or instead of spinnach for easy eggs benedict...

Note frozen spinach can just be microwaved from frozen....

If you really want a big breakfast... then this is the English breakfast gluten-free...

gluten-free bacon, saussages and beans, fried egg and if you want starch add some gluten-free grits etc. (Ok grits aren't English)

You can also make bubble and sqeak with left over potatoes and cabbage....

I have just joined this website, but I already think this is exactly what I need, I feel alone in the world, like I am the only one going through this. I tried finding a local group, but to no avail, but this online forum, seems better.

I am REALLY pleased for you BUT... You must bring hubby on board....

Oh one last note, going to a dietician was a joke. I knew more information in one week then they could find in the month between my appointment. They gave me documents from 1998, that were outdated and incorrect. It said corn pops was gluten-free, WELL THERE NOT!!!

Yes, that a whole new debate!

Welcome, & welcome back to the gluten-free life! So many of us have been through the feelings you're having, wondering if your ill health is just your lot in life, enduring the skepticism & even ridicule of those who don't understand what we're going through, & DEFINITELY enduring the frustration of doctors who are operating on outdated & ineffective diagnosis & treatment modalities...

IF YOU FEEL BETTER gluten-free IT IS NOT YOUR IMAGINATION!!! Stick with the diet & watch your health bloom & let the skeptics be skeptical to their hearts' content-- your health is your own. You don't need anyone's permission to be well.

And the better you get the less you will be bothered by sceptical Dr.s or family.

You can go gluten-free or you can do as FaithInScienceToo suggests as well.

Personally I prefer doing an elimination diet because the results are so much faster and you give yourself time to heal .... but many people do the reverse (I did) and slowly cut things out....

course then the real healing doesn't start until you cut out the irritants and of course most of us find that things like soy and dairy can be tolerated AFTER we heal. (some don't) but either way... the elimination diet goes for a straight kill.... and many of us end up doing this after 6 months of trying the other way anyway....

My advice, gain 6 months of your life and do the elimination diet and 100% gluten-free (no risk of CC or hidden gluten) .. right from the begining (everyone will think you are nuts who thought the gluten-free diet was nuts.... but they are not the one who is paralysingly ill and depressed - forget them for now and they will either come around or not as they see your health improve)

I wish I had started off like this! I really do... I might not be divorced (though that's not a bad thing as it turned out) ... I might not have alienated so many people... and I might not have done lots of things....

Too late for me.... I wasted 6 months of my life feeling miserable....

Honestly the idea of syrup in coffee is horrible....

I'm English and find the idea of milk in tea equally horrid....

If I'm drinking coffee (which lets face it isn't so good for you in large amounts) I stick to good coffee and the last thing you would want to do is add anything....IMHO.

The whole syrup idea (and its in the UK too) or flavored coffee drinks is just a way to use the cheapest nastiest coffee and get people to drink it.

If this was all there is to it then I'd say knock yourself (pun intended) out but the cheap coffee's have far more caffine than the good ones anyway.

There are two types of coffee bean used in 99% of coffee's and these are Arabica and Robusta....

Robusta is much higher in caffine (a pesticide for the plant) and hence much easier to grow... its also more tolerant of soils etc. The absolute first thing you should ask of any coffee is the mix of Arabica and Robusta ... any other fancy name is really pointless unless you know this.

Yum, everyone thanks so much! I have alot of really good ideas now, I feel like a regular food P.I. lol....Julie

Try this thread....

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I never finished the 101 recipees

These are all "fast food" since the idea was things you can cook in the same time as it takes to boil rice or gluten-free pasta.

They are not the best recipees.... but the idea is they are good recipees to make quickly.

It leaves out a few of my favorites (like zuccini pasta) because of the cooking time of the zuccini...

so here's Zuccini pasta.

One decent zuccini per person

Clove of garlic per person (or adjust to taste)

2x Table spoons olive oil per person (good strong olive oil is better here)

pecorini (or whatever chilli you prefer) obviously with qnantities adjusted accoring to the chilli

Parmesan, grated or sliced but not powder

(I also use my own chilli oil... which is all the offcuts I make on chillies thrown in olive oil with a few herbs and a bay leaf) so I add some of this

Slice the zuccini VERY thin... I use the slicing side of a cheese grater while the oil heats up to a medium heat with the thinly sliced garlic and chilli... then cook the zuccini until its starting to go golden brown and all the water has been expelled. (20-30 mins - this should help you gauge the heat)

Cook gluten-free pasta.... rice taglaitelli is quite good with this ...as opposed to corn pasta equally good for different things and just drain and pour over the oil and zuccini and mix in coursely grated parmesan....

You can cheat on actual prep time.... (the zuccini needs very frequent stirring) by adding course salt tot he zuccini and leaving on kitchen towel for 30 mins... then wash the zuccini off (to get rid of the salt which now contains the water from the zuccini) and pat dry with clean kitchen towel....

Cuts cooking time down to half or less.... but you loose some taste from the zuccini...

edited to add link I forgot....

Hey, look on the bright side.

I would prefer my gluten-free baking to fail any day over messing up and getting glutened

it just seems like an awful lot of liquid for only that much flour...

Even without adding the liquid from the zuccini that seems like a LOT of liquids.

Sorry, its not so much an answer but a question!

What on earth could convince a testing lab that Promethius is a good name...?

It reminds me of the meaning of life "we've come for your liver sir!"

When all this started, in one summer I went from a size 9 in jeans, to a size 3. Now, I am wondering have any of you gained any weight back since your loss, and diagnosis? I could stand to gain a few pounds but I'm not looking for anything drastic..Just curious how it happened for others...Julie

Gained it back and then some.... and then some more..... and more.

Don't know American sizes but I was a 26" waist and 44" chest and went from that to a 36" waist in about a year...

and about 128 lbs to 190lbs. (male 5'10") in about a year.

The moral is keep tabs on it.... I was just so enthusiastic about being able to eat without being ill I carried on eating what I had before. When I was a kid 14 or so I actually had a special plate (a serving plate) and my mother eventually gave in and gave me two plates for dinner but I was still the 2nd smallest in my class (regardless of school??) and in the bottom 5% for weight. When I was at uni (putting 4" on my chest I used to count my calories ... and I wouldn't gain anything under 9000 a day so I was probably still eating 7000 a day when my villi healed and man did the weight go on fast.

It took a lot of hard work to get down to a 30" waist and in doing so I lost 2-4" of muscle of my chest. (which took a lot of effort to put there in the 1st place) ...

Now whatever I do I cannot get below a 30" waist... which is kinda OK.. but Ive been down to 2% bodyfat (by caliper, not immersion) and still my waist never goes below 30"... having said that my bladder seems to hold a lot more

I would be interested in peoples opinion of this...

Is it possible at 25-26 that I hadn't completely developed internal organs due to undiagnosed celiac or that they were being held in?

If I relax on exersize or diet for a short time my weight shoots back up....

man these pills are making my stretch marks show for some reason, they had finally died down

Its scar tissue... they are probably repairing it ....

is it ok for me to take my b12s while on these meds? i skiped my normal b12 vitemen today becasue i was not sure

I can't see why not.... ask the pharmacist of you prefer but I would personally keep taking them unless they say otherwise. If your Dr. knows about the B12's then he would have specifically told you but I honestly can't see why not...

but once im all healed up will the inflmation just come back? like is it chronic and only temporarly meds will work?? or is once the inflmation gone it stays away?

Who can say.... your Dr. obviously believes otherwise.

The idea is to let the body repair itself.... the med's are just to give it a break while it does this.

Its like if it repairs say 10 cells in a day .. at the moment you are repairing 10 then damaging 9 again and perhaps some days damaging 11 then repairing 8.... so its 3 steps foprwards and 2 back....

With the meds you will still only be repairing the same amount (well as your body is healthier you might repair faster but ...) Instead of repairing 10 and damaging 9 it will be repairing 10 and damaging 1-2...

how do i leave my stomic alone? should i start eating very very little for a few weeks? i dont quite understand how i take care of it?

You just give it easy to digest food and no irritants (or as few as you can)

Coffee, hot 'n' spicy ... alcohol (and nicotine) are irritants.

Anything with lots of water in it is usually easy to digest...

Zuccini, egg plant, cucumber (technically fruits) are all easy to digest...

Hard starchy foods are more work like corn, rice and perhaps potatoes...

A lot of people find a food combining diet easier on their stomach... (I do)

The theory is meats and protein rich foods like nuts need an acid environment to digest whereas vegetables need a less acid environment. It is suggested that by eating them together it kinds confuses the stomach...on how much acid to produce. While it can't digest everything it keeps making more acid = rumbling and stomach cramps etc.

A lot of people also debunk this.... personally I find it helps a lot.

You can get books or download from the internet lists of the different foods and you just try and eat them seperately...

10 yrs ago (having been biopsied for stomach cancer....ulcers and basically anything but celiac) I got put on a acid inhibitor which was then ranitidine and told it was for lfe.

A friend who's husband has Chrons recommended this diet. She did it herself and it has to be said she looked very healthy on it... she had convinced a few people to try it and they too all got healthier.

I was absolutely desperate so I tried it and it worked .....

The one I followed had gluten in it but I also found the book a bit "new world hippyish" but I was back in the UK for a short time and saw a TV audience show ... a bit like a watered down Oprah and the theme was diets.

They went through and blasted most of them... they had Dr.s in to blast them and then they came to this one and the Dr.s all blasted it.. no scientific evidence etc. ... then people who had done the diet all got up and started saying they didn't care... they were healthier than they had been ... they had lost/gained weight to a healthy weight etc. etc.

Non of the other diets had this sort of following... or convincing advocates... and one mentioned a different book that combined "food combining" with cycling "bad foods".

Bad foods were basically very starchy stuff like rice, corn and bread .(you were only meant to eat the same bad food once in 5 days maximum).. BUT he also advocated not eating wheat at all... if you could.

Well I got much much better... with little hickups every 5 days.(or so).. and when I cut out wheat as much as I could it suddenly struck me... its the freakin wheat. I had actually heard of celiac disease... but that was about it and I was certain I didn't have that... I was just a bit sensitive to wheat... however I cut out all non hidden gluten and did the diet ... and I really really improved.

To cut a long story short my mom started getting the same symptoms... to be honest she had always knocked my "wheat thing" ... and even been quite cruel accusing me of attention seeking (I once missed a flight because I was literally doubled over in pain and the pilot refused to fly me... (ironic I was flying back from Africa for a endoscopy!!) etc. etc. so after she had finally been referred to a physchiatrist for hypochondria and the Dr. had exhausted almost every last test known I managed to get her to suggest a IgA., IgG screening ....

Her Dr. laughed in her face (she didn't realise what the tests were for) and told her she was just mentally ill and nothing wrong with her except attention seeking and Munchausen... but he did run the tests.

He didn't actually apologise.... but when he did get the results he sent her for a biopsy and this was very postive....

the dosage for the first 4 days seems really high, to treat something that he is not sure if i have or not. alright well i guess i can start them at 9:45 with my lunch break. i just really hope my immune system wont get shut down to much incase i did get wnv from the camping trip (the camp site seriusly is under warning for it(did not know that until i got home and it was all over the paper) )

Dude, chill!

Next thing the meds will be giving you an upset tum and D.... but it's won't be the meds its you worrying yourself sick!

(ever wonder where the phrase came from?)

Hey gfp...Well, the gluten molecule would not "break down" on its own, so I think it's safe to say that your favorite body cream, etc. if safe for most Celiacs, even if it has wheat.

It is true that there is transdermal technology that is used to allow once larger molecules to penetrate the skin. BUT as far as I know, this is only used for vitamins, peptides, etc. I have never heard of a product which has used this technology for gluten, as there is no benefit that I am aware of by allowing the amino acids from gluten into the skin. Furthermore, if gluten is broken down into individual amino acids, it is not toxic to Celiacs. It is because Celiacs let in WHOLE gluten protein which causes the reaction. I also think that type of immune response for Celiac MUST start in the intestine. Of course, this info does not apply to those with an allergic response.

I guess I should clarify that I include those with "neurological" Celiac and seizure disorders related to gluten exposure as "Celiacs". Usually those people have high levels of antibodies. Their bodies are letting in whole gluten, so they have the "leaky gut", but they seem to have (genetic?) protection from intestinal damage.

Furthermore, if gluten is broken down into individual amino acids, it is not toxic to Celiacs.

Obviously not but the question is how long a chain in a specific sequence needs to be left.

As you know gluten is composed of two protein components, gliadin and glutamines.

Glutamines are almost certainly absorbable across most semi-permeable surfaces... most notably it is the only protein which in normal people crosses the blood-brain barrier.

If you compare the sequences from horedin, secalin and gliadin it is only a few chains long..if you knock out the non alpha gliadin then the commonailty is in a few sequences.

it took 2 days for my body to fight the bites?? is that bad??

No it shows your immune system is calming down....

yah i know i worry way to much..... god i got bit everywhere there poping up left and right now, so far 6

Hey i spent 2 weeks camping in Italy .. ants, mosquito's and got bitten allover... including some bas&&*^d that bit my eyeball ... serious big red blotch all across it for the whole vacation but I didn't let it freak me out...

2 yrs ago I was camping in Brittany and got these little red spider things biting me .. but didn't realise it and though it was mosquito's...

There wasn't a square inch of my back and stomach that wasn't covered!

It sounds like your immune system is settling down but you really gotta stop freakin yourself out.

Its the worst possible thing for your stomach and guts.

well i was wrong i did get bit, it just took 2 days for them to show up for some reason, now i really dont wanna take the meds until these bug bites are gone, because if there west nile i need my defense up at 100% (yes it sounds silly to worry about west nile but the camp site we were at just had a breakout) i got one nice bite on my arm that itchs like hell. Im super dizzy this morning i hope the 2 are not related back to my worrying while getting ready for work bye

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AHHHH wtf since when does it take 48 hours for masquito bites to show up, im coverd i have 5 so far and they all took 48 hours to develop now i itch everywhere

Mosquito bites are invisible....

What shows up is your bodies immune system fighting them.

Im super dizzy this morning i hope the 2 are not related back to my worrying while getting ready for work bye

Dude, you were first worried that they didn't bite you at all... and that meant perhaps they detected some serious prob with your blood...

Now you're worrying it took 2 days to come up...

and meanwhile your not taking the meds and worrying .....

Let's not beat around the bush.... you need an attitude change

The difference is it took me 6 months to realise what you have already realised.... you are way ahread of me.

Anyway, glad to hear I'm not the only one who's felt this way.

Far from it... its pretty normal ... at least I hope so

So this new diet should be a piece of (flourless) cake for me. As my grandmother put it, I'm already "used to eating all those strange foods." And yet some days I just feel blindsided by the whole thing. Maybe it's the not-by-choice thing. Maybe it's the no-cheating thing.

Yep... the no cheating thing is the BIGGY... add to that its for life...

BUT.... and its a huge but.... it effects where you can eat more than what you can eat.

If you look up 100 random recipees then 70 will be easily made gluten free, especially vegetarian ones.

Sure gazpacho is meant to have bread in it but ... you can make it without...

Probably 80% of mexican or Indian food should be gluten-free... (as a random example of something with loads of veggie options) and most of the difference just comes from adding wheat flour to corn flour tortillas or popadoms...

The problem is the 10-20% of stuff for cross contaminating or hidden gluten combined that culturally Americans and Europeans tend top have "with bread"... obviously meatloaf isn't meatloaf without... but most things the gluten stuff is just an afterthought or accident.

When you start to compensate for this naturally you don't even notice it anymore except really where you can eat.

I'm over the whole having a disease thing. I'm over the diet. Where do I sign up to be normal again?

You just did when you made that post!

I understand where you are coming from but this begs a whole load of other questions...

Firstly I'd be glad they do anything gluten-free at all but then I would expect to pay a bit more or be ready to pay a bit more.

Look at it this way, if you went to a fancy $100+ a person resto you can reasonably expect them to cook anything you ask for that they have the ingredients, menu not withstanding.

If you go to a $10 resto they are playing at margins...

Lets say the $100 resto uses ingredients 3x as expensive as the $10 resto and the $10 resto is still making a profit then say the food cost is max $8 then the max price of food in the expensive place is $24....

(When they have something on the menu not in the $100 meal it is usually marked as a suppliment)

The rest (or most) of the $76 you are paying to have your food hand prepared and not pre-made stuff that just gets dumped in a pan/frier etc.

Obviously there are lots of places inbetween these extremes.... but you are usually paying a bit more for care and attention more than the basic price of the food. A good resto will have the chef personally select the meat at 5AM ... I know quite a few resto's where the chef has to appear at 4AM for the morning shipment of fish from Brittany to Paris... they land them at night and drive through the night to keep them fresh. Quite a few of these chefs are friends of mine... and in all honestly they don't want to be up at 4AM (unless they are still parting from the night before ... since their night starts at 11PM to midnight at the earliest).. and these are not "expensive resto's" but mid range ....

They could just give the shipping company the option of dumping the fish in the fridge ... (I know some places that do) but then they wouldn't be able to select the fish.... what looks good that day...

Typical day of my mate Matt.... 4AM fish delivery and 5AM at the butcher selecting cuts for the day... 6AM vegetable market (lucky for him really close to the resto) 7AM back to bed... 4-5PM arrive at resto for prep... 6:30 open the doors until midnight.... midnight ... go and get a drink and wind down.

and incidentally I don't eat Matts food....

Yes, but my point is, when looked at in combinations, there are very clear haplotype trails.

Here is link to an interesting article regarding human diversity.

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Yes, and I really appreciate you help in this (I know your busy now) ....

What I mean firstly is an "Italian genotype" doesn't exist. The genotype pools are much much smaller.

If you choose a single place and simply study the gene trading over 10,000 years then the influences are huge.

Language affinities vastly underestimate this because they only reflect dominant language pools with localisation and dialiectisation.

Back to my Italy example ... Italian has only been spoken in Napoli for a short time. Greek was up to this century the dominant language in Napoli.

Napolese (pretty much incomprehensible to anyone with Roman Italian) reflects French and Spanish (and I would expect the gene pool does equally, if such gene pools existed) but it also reflect the turkik side of the Austrian occupation mixed and hard to seperate from Arabic ... and perhaps traces of cartheginian influenced phoenecian.

Not to mention the influence of Byzantines, Lombards, Normans, Swabians, Angevins, Aragonese.

Napoli was a "greek" villiage before the Romans built Misineum ... but a single decision by Marcus Agrippa (one of the most under estimated architects of the Augustan era) changed this in ine fell swoop....

Historically Augustus' (great Nephew of Giaus Julius) needed to control piracy in the Tyrrhenian Sea. This had previously been ceded by Julius to Crassus as part of the agreement on the 1st triumvirate in order for his support to elect Julius to consul. so it was largely a political descision but one that altered the gene pool of Napoli enormously.

Unperterbed by the fact the area had no drinking water to support the fleet they built it..... and it soon became the largest port in the area and held the largest Roman fleet... quite what this meant so far as the brothels in Napoli and the genetic makeup of the fleet is enormous.

In some respects Napoli's gene pool is of course unique... but in other respects it is a complex mixing of hundreds of different cultural gene pools.

If you were to do this for nearby Ischia and Capri you would again find a different mix....

Capri is expensive and has been for 2000 years! During Roman times the gene pool was very different to Meseneum or Napoli.... you were either a serf or equestrian class to live in Capri.

You can look at different places all over Europe and the middle east in the same way.

York was where constantine (at least 50% serbian ) was crowned emporor.. but he made the seat of his empire Trier (now in Germany) as the Praefectus Praetorio Galliarium Trier was the administrative capital from Morocco to Britian. Once again this created a huge influx of "Roman's" from Spanish to Greek, before it was moved to Arles....

I'm drifting because the point is that I could then relate the history of Arles ... again unique and with an unique influx of genetic material and again creation of the aquaduct at Pont du Gard bringing in a unique gene pool of slaves....

Indeed the Gard area is quite distinct in many ways... from langue d'oc. Culturally and linguistically (grape varieties ... an area of interest for me and also a benificiary of DNA studies - especially at the Univerity of Montpellier halfway from Arles to Gard!), architecturally etc. etc. The architecture is .. well far more solid.. its what you would expect a master stone mason to build for himself... it wouldn't surprise me if we could find some genetic material of the original master masons preserved somewhere and actually trace that back to a component of the present day inhabitants.

But, is square dancing an efficient use of time...especially since you just keep dancing in circles (or is that squares?!) LOL! BTW, I'm a big proponent of dancing...before kids, it used to be my main method of exercise (that and swimming.)

In terms of walking...I'm not looking at it in terms of its efficiency (although a good walk is still way more efficient at burning calories than driving in heavy traffic!)...I'm suggesting not limiting the walking to 30 minutes a day, but choosing it as a mode of trasportation everyday...heck, you could walk your way to square dancing too.

It really should be a lifestyle choice...any other exercise done beyond that is a bonus. Making that lifestyle choice will help a lot with acheiving weight loss, and is much easy to keep up than to continue to sweat it out at the gym for a lifetime. Unfortunately, the reality is that few people nowadays live close enough to work or to schools & businesses to seriously walk everywhere they go.

Michelle

I think we pretty much agree....

I actually made a lifestyle choice when I moved and proximity of local walkable services was a part of that choice.

As part of that lifestyle change I got rid of my car and invested in a shopping trolley (loads of change) ...

I think my emphasis is don't walk for 30mins and think that's enough... its really an absolute minimum bit if you want to turn around your weight gain something more drastic is required ... (obviously if health stops you doing anything else then walking is a good choice) ... It doesn't need to be forever .. what is needed is an overall lifestyle change.. walking when you can ...

Investing in a bike, roller blades .... whatever you fancy and joining up with others to do the same is a big boost.

Once people start to exersize then lifestyle changes often occur round this....

For instance you go to square dancing and meet people... these people already have an exersize as part of their life... your chance of meeting someone who says, hey we are hiking in the country this weekend or riding the bikes round a lake ... etc. is much highrer than asking a couch potato.

I have been involved in lots of sports just by being around people who do sports. Heck some of the sports I don't particularly enjoy as such but I enjoy being with the people doing something productive and getting fresh air. My idea about golf is "A good walk spoil'd" but I will go and knock a ball around the golf course with friends ... (well more accurately hit the ball in various directions sometimes reasonably close to where I intended) ...

The important thing is how you view it.... if you turn up and hire an electric golf cart then ??? if the bag is too heavy take out half the clubs... you can turn most anything into exersize and most anything into an excuse, even regular housework... or toweling down after a shower... or doing the grocery shopping.

From what I understand, the red is actually less worrisome, usually the result of hemmorhoids or fissures rather than something deep in the colon. This is probably irritation near the surface.

I am so glad you are going to start your meds!

Red isn't bad.... if its red the haemoglobin is fresh... which means its pretty close to the exit sign...

If you have lots of D its not abnormal...

The mucous is undigested fat....you need to reduce that inflamation....

If a Dr. prescribed water it would have warings that exceeding the recommended dose could kill you.

Don't work yourself up over it.... check the fact sheet on ibuprofen or tylenol...its full of what might happen if you take them everyday in excess. its good to read them but take it with a grain of salt....

Haven't taken those myself but if the people who have told me then I'd take them not question...

And I'm someone who has refused all antibiotics for probably 10 yrs!!! (I honestly don't remember when its so long ago)

My understanding is that the gluten molecule is too big to be transdermal, or absorbed through the skin. Maybe if you denatured it with microwaves

Furthermore, gluten must be INGESTED to cause problems in a Celiac. Even people with DH need to have gluten ingested for a reaction, but their immune system attacks the surface of their skin as opposed to their intestines.

We are forgetting the strictly not celiac disease... blood brain transmission.... I know its not strictly celiac disease... but for many of us depresion and neuro symptoms can be the worst .. ( incl seizures)

Hi, gfp!

Very interesting concept! Have you read Arthur Koestler"s controversial but thought-provoking "The Thirteenth Tribe"? From the jacket: ". . . traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in the Dark Ages became converted to Judaism. . . . ." Koestler provides extensive References and Bibliography sections. I don't know for sure, but imagine it's way out of print. I bought my hardback copy in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

The specific type (49a,f Haplotype 11) haplotype is thought to have been introduced eastwards prior to the rise of the Khazar nation but the same migration is also historically associated with patrimonial societies. The Khazar are meant to have had female leaders and advisors for instance and the association with art is seen in the decline of the mother goddess dominance to male godheads.

I don't "get" Kafka, but maybe I'll try "Kafka for Beginners."

Just as an aside: During the Medieval Warm Period, farmers in Scandinavia were able to grow wheat at much more northern latitudes, and they grew oats at latitudes more northern still.

Yes and no... I don't think they relied on wheat.... and incidentally even today there is a particular area of fruit tree orchards along a specific Fjord. (Between Stavanger and Bergen and close to the temperate rain forest)

but not the way the Romans relied on grain....

About those Vikings in the Greenland settlement: Perhaps they would have survived, even after the seas froze and cut them off from the rest of the world during the onset of the Little Ice Age, were it not for the rigid mindset of their religion. They doomed their entire colony to death because they refused to associate with the "skralings" - the so-called heathen savages, whose survival skills in that frigid climate could have saved the Norse.

I have a friend in Paris whose parents were White Russians, who fled to Paris to escape the Bolsheviks. Her father, Sasha, was still alive when I met her, so I got to know him also. Sasha was fluent in 5 (or 7 - can't remember which) languages, and I drooled over his library! He would buy a book in all the languages of which he had command (provided that the book was available in those languages), because, as he explained, each language had its own nuances, and by putting them all together he got a complete picture of the author's intent.

I've enjoyed reading your perspective on the widespread prevalence of the celiac gene in Europe.

Cissie

(Definitely in the Non-NT category! )

Thanks.... but its open to firther input, like you just did.

I literally just started typing... checked a few dates and stuff... so its a bit rambling....

gfp,

I'm a little curious about where you get your genetic information from. We study the effect of SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms) on gene responses. There are huge differences in the SNP profiles of the different races, and people are beginning to investigate the profiles of same race populations from different locations.

If I look at one person's SNP profile from three genes, it;s possible that I can tell that this is a white individual with either asian or native american (same gene pool) influences. I can easily identify people who believe themselves to be all white but very likely have a not-to-distant african ancestor. And that's from three genes. We each have thousands of genes. I think it's very likely that every, even slightly inbred population is entirely different from one another.

That is rather my point.

Part of this comes from looking into various haplotype markers (a while ago) and part of it comes from knowing a bit of history and a very large part comes from having worked with todays (or mostly yesterdays) military in 3rd world countries.

You can add other's bits of common knowledge... for instance the English (really meaning plantangenet) whilst invading Scotland made a law whereby the "English" lord had first rights on sleeping with a bride before she married... but even in normal circumstances the "Lord of the house" usually got first dibs on serving girls.....

Add this to the fact that even today 1:25 presumed named fathers on birth certificates are not the actual biological father. This has been happening for thousands of years ...

People for instance fail to realise that aincient Rome had a large Hindu trading population...

or the effect that Alexander had.... on gene mixing through the near east.

As far as scientists know, no particular genes make a person Irish or Chinese or Zulu or Navajo. These are cultural labels, not genetic ones. People in those populations are more likely to have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other. (There may be rare variations, however, that are found only in some populations.) This cannot be very surprising, in light of the vast extent of intermarriage among human populations, now and throughout history and prehistory. There is no such thing as a genetically "pure" human population.

I got interested because I have a few Basque friends. However even though they are mainly recognisable by facial and physical characterists, premature balding pinning this down via genetics is pretty far off.

Another area of interest is for instance the spread of a certain religion.

If one takes a specific like the Iris goddess one can track its evolution through the mediterranean... from Minoan and phoenecian origins to deviations in Egypt or Carthage. Specific changes can be mapped and linked to trade..

The human genome project and HapMap being some resources (sorry trying to stick to the linking rule here)

Anyway.... One of the problems of studying history other than is that its written by winners is it extremely biassed. The English regard Napoleon rather poorly, the Napolese rather differently. When Napoleon invaded Napoli with his French army thousands of local girls would have traded genes either for fun, money or against their will... but its pretty much certain that they did! When the Germans occupied France the same and when the Americans were stationed in the UK during WWII a enormous amount of gene trading was taking place.

The idea of Romans occupying Gaul for some 500 years and not trading genes is pretty much laughable, not to mention many of the Romans were not genetically Roman at all anyway....

When you look at history from a particular place as opposed to the "country" way its taught at school then its rather obvious that a "proto-Italian" in sicly with carthaginian heritage is about as related to a Estrucian in Lazio as he is to a phoenecian, indeed his most direct link is through phoenicia.

Ghadaffi hosts the Africa for the Africans summit every year.... yeah sure the Arabs are indiginous?

Sorry... if that unspecific but if you ask a specific question (like origin of the goths) then I can answer that one specifically.