gfp

hey thanks for resurrecting this, i totally forgot about it. this is the email i got:

so looks like it's safe!

--matt

How do you get that from the eMails taken together?

Both seem to be in conflict .. in order for it to comply with the codex definition of gluten free some gluten must be present

I can confirm that it is gluten free, A glucose/fructose syrup derived from a wheat base is used in its manufacture, but there is no residual gluten present.

Reading this I understand that they remove the gluten to codex limits which allows them to say gluten free but in combintion with the other email I find it unlikely that "there is no residual gluten present" otherwise they would have posted the testing method and detection limits.

Kraft will not hide gluten so any puddings by Kraft just read the label. There are others as well but we like jello pudding in my house. Main stream cereals that are gluten-free are fruity and cocoa pebbles and cocoa puffs. There are a few others.... just do a search.

Hang in there. It does get easier. Companies are very helpful, if you have doubts....just call them. There is usually answers on most websites as well.

Welcome.

I think "some companies are very helpful" is perhaps more accurate but in general the safe thing is just to stick with those that are.

Katherine, it isn't MY thread anyway, but gfp started it to talk about Aspergers and related problems, and it appears that I AM the one who has hijacked it!

When you invite the expert witness you expect nothing else.... I really hoped you would contribute to this thread when I started it and believe it or not I'm learning even from your reactions to your husband.

looks like we cross posted

Here's the info from the third link I posted on how to find a real olive oil:

Choosing Olive Oil?

Be suspicious of low prices. You're not likely to find true extra-virgin olive oil for less than $12 for a 500-ml bottle. The best quality olive oils command very hefty prices. One brand, Manni, a Tuscan olive oil used in the finest restaurants in the U.S. and Europe, sells for about $260 for 30 ounces (that's extreme).

Look for imported oils certified by the International Olive Oil Council (IOOC) or by olive oil certifying bodies in Italy (DOP), Spain (DO) or Greece (HEPO). Be wary of any imported oils not marked with the logos of these certifying agencies, and do not be fooled by the term "imported from" these countries, which merely means it has passed through the region on its way to market.

Again the local controls are very strict.... not only would this be illegal but an olive grower would be shunned ...the same with any "appelation" its taken seriously at an EU level but at a local level people would basically be outcast from growers associations etc. I wouldn't be surprised if people were even killed in some parts of Sicely or Greece...(I'm not condoning it I just wouldn't be surprised). The local communities see the control and professional bodies as their livelyhood and view people misusing the name extremely seriously.

gfp and Fiddle Faddle, I really appreciate the time you spent to send your long, thoughtful responses.

Ursula: What we have done is spend a little time trying to help a wonderful and caring person who gives her time freely to help others. I can't speak for fiddle-faddle but thanks are not needed but gratefully received. In other words I feel good you said thanks but it wasn't necassary.

I've tried everything, though. We've gone to marriage counseling...........my husband went to help the counselor fix ME. It was terribly frustrating and I couldn't do it, it would make me sooooooooo angry.

Well that was doomed unless the first thing the councellor told him was you can't fix something that isn't broken and YOU are not broken. What is broken is your relationship .... Neither can you go hoping to fix him.... we are who we are.... all we can do is learn to project who we are.

When we went last year several times to try counseling with our pastor and his wife (I insisted on his wife being there, who is also my best friend, to not just have two guys). They wanted both of us to write a list for the next session of our faults, and where we thought we could improve, so we could talk about them and pray about them etc., and they could help us work them out.

My list was two pages long. My husband didn't have one. He said he couldn't find anything to write down! With our pastor's coaxing he reluctantly admitted that yes, it was possible he was controlling and could be very insensitive to other's feelings (he had been very insensitive in elder's meetings to other men when pointing out their faults, I hear, so our pastor saw those problems first hand). But it was a rather halfhearted admission. He looked like he resented that it was even suggested that he wasn't perfect.

And that is seriously what the biggest problem is. MY HUSBAND THINKS HE IS PERFECT! Really, he does. He meets with our pastor regularly (who loves me dearly), who is trying very hard to gently help my husband see that he is abusing me, and that maybe he is not so perfect. This far without success.

My first thoughts were that a pastor is perhaps not the trained professional councellor you need but then you have good reasons as well. From my side this looks like "MY HUSBAND THINKS HE IS PERFECT!" is not correct but I realise you didn't say this without thinking it through or you would knowingly say it if you don't think its true.

From my standpoint the problem is "YOUR HUSBAND BELIEVES HE IS PERFECT"

When people beleive something then they don't need proof and are quite able to overlook proof to the contrary. The more devout that belief the more they will overlook to the contrary...

This is not limited to religion .. the same is equally true of groups in the armed forces, they are continually told they are the best, they are invincible and indeed just making them believe this can have an effect on the group...

The second question is who are the elders? Are all of these people male?

Perhaps this also is a defining element in your husbands attitude.

I know I am not perfect. I try very hard to change, and to see things from other people's perspective. But he doesn't. My friend just suggested that we need to meet again, and I should tell him in front of THEM that he is abusing me. She thinks that it will bother him a lot, hearing it in front of others, because he cares an awful lot about how he looks to others. She thinks it may shock him out of denial, and that it might help. Because even though I have told him, he won't talk about it! I told him I was thinking of leaving him, but he refuses to take it seriously. He thinks I don't mean it, he thinks I can't live without him (he said so).

OK now I will be devious. .... but the question is can you be devious?

Established facts are your husband respects the pastor? and your husband has a problem with you and with some of the elders. He probably repsects the pastor more about church matters than his marriage....

He believes he is doing nothing wrong and indeed probably quiet the opposite.

My advice is let the pastor deal with his attitude to the elders but with a understanding between you and the pastor that he is to make him see he is not perfect and that he has certain communication problems but that he is highly valued regardless because we all have imperfections (at which point a pastor may want to add an exception about Jesus although this isn't strictly literally true either ... but far be it from me to comment ....

Once your husband comes to realise this then you can address your issues either witth the pastor or better still IMHO with a trained guidance councellor .... each to their speciality but strictly in that ORDER.

You guys are great. What you said might apply to other men. But my husband probably has got something called 'Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder'. My pastor, his wife, my counselor and several other people agree.

My husband's cousin's wife (who is a good friend) has told me not long ago that she thinks I should take my youngest daughter and leave, before he destroys us both. She says she has watched with a sad heart over the years as he has been destroying me. She has seen the way he treats me first hand.

So, it really, really is much more than just a 'normal' man and an Aspie wife not understanding each other. Much more!

She may be correct but you haven't tried this yet. Also you probably find or found apects of his compulsion attractive... his dedication and the like.

What needs to change is the relationship not you or him. This will mean he has to realise things in himself and that might, no will be hurtful and that is why you should not be involved directly over the marriage, indeed he may well end up depending on your support to get through this...

GFP I want to come eat at your house......

And how do you make garam masala? I use Patek's Vindaloo paste from a jar - throw a dollup of that in a pan wtih butter/onions and add some chicken - or - worse yet - throw a dollup of it, w/ a little chicken stock, on some chicken tenders and put it in the microwave Even easier and pour it over rice - serve w/ fresh lime, chopped cashews, white onions and some chutney - - delicious.....but, I am always looking for different gluten-free curries/masalas/ something exotic and Indian.....

Yep I like Patak's myself ...

Here is the garam masarla I make though its never the same twice....and I usually do it all by eye so measures are somewhat guesses...

100g coriander/cilantro and 100g cumin seeds (this 50/50 is classic from Mexican to Indian)

50g black pepper corns,

30g cassia bark, cloves, brown cardamon

15g nutmeg, ground ginger

10g bay leaves.

Stick everything except the ginger into a medium grill, low oven or just a large frying pan (I just use the pan)

heat slowly until they start giving off steam but don't let em burn.

take em off and grind down in a mortar and pestle.... (or spice grinder if you have one, I don't) you can also stick them into a pepper grinder...

seive the mix and get as much out as you can, regrind, add course salt if necassary (abrasive) add the ginger and stick it in an airtight jar.

I think it would be great to have the possibility for people to submit recommendations/warnings about restaurants, but it might be better if there was a way for people to pm you, and then you place the recommendations on the site. There wouldn't be a copyright issue I think if you had a form that was specifically for that purpose for example, one wouldn't fill it in if they didn't want to have the info on the site!

Anyway, good luck!

Pauliina

good idea.... I can just modify the text of the "contact us" .. thanks that's really helpful...

Points well taken. I guess it's the deception, not just the possible lower quality product that is upsetting. It really should be as good as the label indicates, if not better. So, I guess even Europe doesn't know where the olives grew, only that the oil is the grade it is advertized to be. If good oil goes from outside Italy for example, then sold to Europe as the actual grade it truly is, they'd pass it I'd think. However, if the USA doesn't have strict enough standards for importing it, you just know some crooks are taking advantage of it.

To be accurate the appelation controlled olive oil is completely traceable. The problem is the US does not accept non US defined protected products.

It is illegal in Europe to sell a Parma ham NOT from Parma ... or Reggiano de Parmegganio not from Parmegganio ... however these international treaties are not recognised by the US in the interests of free trade and competition.

I know I can eat a Parma ham in Europe because the ingredients permitted are strictly controlled... the individual producer must follow strict standards the same goes for a Dijon mustard. It must be made int he protected area and must be made following strict controls. If I ask for a Chablis I will get a white chardonnay from 1270 hectares which consitute the entire region of Chablis....

Its just different ways of doing things.

Even when the bottle contains genuine olive oil, it may not be from Italy or Spain as the labels suggest - both countries import huge quantities of cheaper olive oils from Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco or Libya, bottle them and label them "imported from" Italy or Spain. This is deceptive marketing.

Many of the North African olive oils of of very good quality. Libya inparticular has vast plantations of Olive trees (try google earth) along the whole coastal plain, Noone can sell Libyan olive oil unless it is in excess, its controlled and the price is also controlled, I forget exactly but I think 20 pestari a litre. No basic food stuff can be exported unless its already in excess and export permits granted for a given time period. Nearly all the olive groves are organic so if its not actually grown in Spain or Italy this isn't really a problem and more than that they are only interested in shipping the oil which is most easily extracted and demands the highest premium, not the pulp for hexane extraction.

I dislike the taste of extra virgin olive oil......so wouldn't that be a clue as to whether or not you're getting the purer olive oil, by the stronger taste?

The thing is for a good virgin olive oil in Italy you expect to pay €15 for a very good olive oil anything up to €100 a bottle. But the virgin olive oil is used sparingly.

If you want cheap and very good quality virgin olive oil you need to find a controlled "appelation" almost anything labelled Tuscan is overpriced (practically by definition) and you can get far better price/quality from Umbrian producers.

A good virgin olive oil is made from a single named producer....

Well, I am afraid you're probably right with some of what you say (sigh). My husband knows I am more intelligent than him (even though I am very careful to not ever directly mention that fact), he has said so a few times. My IQ is in the gifted range (I won't say where, I don't want to brag), and his is in the average range. Huge difference. Still, he is capable of doing many things I can't do. He can talk to anybody without any inhibitions (he is a personnel recruiter, or headhunter), never gets completely overwhelmed by any job, never gets completely stressed out by anything.

I think you are wrong and can't see it because you are inside.

I think your husband does get stressed out because he can't understand YOU and that causes him to become stressed in a way he has no way of expressing, whereas you are used to having problems expressing feelings for him it is a different thing. Not to mention your comment "heart of stone, really" ... makes me realise because I am looking from the outside that he probably does have problems expressing feelings... which doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

Whereas my stress tolerance is so low, that I am incapable of holding a job out there in the work world. That's why I want to take those courses, so that maybe I could be a webmaster for somebody, or design websites. I can do that from my own computer at home, without too much personal contact with people (I am terrible with strangers).

I think this is a fine idea.

And of course, when I get completely absorbed in something, I totally forget about time and space (and about cooking supper or cleaning, doing the laundry etc.), and he tells me I love my computer more than him (and there is truth to that, even though I am communicating with people, but he doesn't see the difference). Sometimes he comes home at night (around 8:00 PM), and thinks nobody is home, because it has grown dark and the house is pitch black. But here I am on the computer, so absorbed in what I am doing, that I didn't notice that it's dark, and have no clue what time it is.

Well, Im in that situation right now with my gluten-free... I can feel her sulk coming....

One reason I am not too concerned with his feelings is, that he doesn't seem to care about mine (heart of stone, really), and that he wants to completely control me.

If he could, he'd control my thoughts. In fact, he used to try that! Up to a few years ago he'd ask me what I was thinking when he saw me being in thought. And I'd be stupid enough to tell him. Somehow, in his opinion, my thoughts were never 'befitting a Christian woman', or pure enough, or whatever else he found wrong with them. He'd really upset me every time.

I agree your thoughts are privite BUT at the same time if a person who coinsiders themself your best friend asks them they should damn well be ready to deal with them.

Whatever your thoughts were the phrase 'befitting a Christian woman' is complete BS....

We do not control what we think... we explore possibilites. Your thoughts are merely a way of looking over those possibilities and you probably analyse way more scenarios than most people.

Thoughts range from immediate (what if I I make a cup of tea?) to complete abstract (what if instead of learning HTML I learn to rob banks) .. the latter is just exploring the possibilitiy because you know full well you are not going to do this but it helps you because it sets limits on what you will do. It was purely abstract and the pupose was to reaffirm to yourself you won't do whatever it takes for money. So this relates back to what if you were asked to do a website for some organisation you strongly oppose!

If he is referring to lustful thoughts ... this is more about his own insecurity... everyone has thoughts what makes us who we are is not the thoughts but our ability to control our own actions. We have all sorts of silly thoughts provoked by silly things, just writing a simple letter involves analysing every word and the avenues it opens ... for you this is far more than most people so you explore these scenarios...

(I have already deleted countless words in this post because of avenues )

Until finally I realized that thoughts are private! And from then on, when he asked me, I'd tell him my thoughts were private and none of his business. He hated that. His reasoning for asking me what my thoughts were was, that he claims the bible says, that 'a friend tells a friend everything'. Since your spouse is supposed to be your best friend, he/she is 'required' to share all his/her thoughts! How ridiculous, another complete misinterpretation of a good bible verse. He excels in misinterpreting selected bible verses to fit his agenda. He still sometimes asks me what I am thinking, but I won't tell him, because it ALWAYS backfires.

I don't know but I doubt this helps... it probably just sets the two of you at odds. If he doesn't like your thoughts he will get over it.. if you don't tell himit builds resentment.

I dunno and ASK YOUR COUNCELLER first .. but perhaps tell him you were just daydreaming about stupid thoughts and just running over possibilities in your head as an academic exersize.

In fact, telling him when I am upset, or hurting, or often what I am thinking on whatever subject usually backfires. He finds fault with everything I say or do. I really don't know why. We have nothing in common I'm afraid.

I would imagine that is because he can't fix them. Men are not good at things they can't fix because it challenges them. When someone finds fault with everything this is usually an indication of their own inadequacy be it real or perceived. Getting him to admit this is the hardest and then getting himn to accept he can't fix everything the next step.

Oh well, I better go, I've got lots to do (and my husband is growing more impatient with me for not doing the tasks he has decided I need to do).

And my girlfriend is proably the same, she already made a lot of noise tidying... I guess that's a signal it must be done now ...

I'm not in France and unlikely to visit in the near future, but I had a look at the site just out of curiosity, hope this helps:

One thing I can think of is the infamous herd mentality .... if there aren't many posts in a forum, new people aren't likely to post either i suspect. It's very difficult to get a forum started unless you have something like a group of friends who all post something in the beginning to attract new people. The key is to have several different people posting, if you just post something yourself in the forum it still doesn't feel attractive to people because there's no group they can join. This is just based on what I've observed on different forums that I visit, some of them never really got going.

Yes I think this is true.... its just a bit difficult in terms of catch-22...

For my taste there's also a bit too much text and different menus on the page, it gets difficult to take it all in. I couldn't find the forum at first for example, even though I knew to be looking for it. You might overestimate the average person's ability to take in information. Personally I'm happiest with webpages that have a menu of six-seven links, tops. At the moment the site is more impressive then attractive if you see what I mean... a bit overwhelming.

Pauliina

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense. The menu's at the top are most often clicked and it was my intention to have them all at the top ... before I ran out of space at the top.

Indeed peope send me emails all the time asking for information which is on the pages linked from the side menu. I guess I need to stick with one or the other and if I need to have the menu's at the side make them more obvious?

Thanks for spending the time ... Ill see if I get anymore comments and try and take them all into account and redo the site from scratch.... perhaps missing out the abilty of people to submnit stories and links?

edited to comply with board rules

Lister, on one of your other threads I posted how to get cheap and nutritous food for less than $10 a week.

What you are eating (rice cakes, chips) is very expensive for its nutritional value... indeed raice cakes have almost no nutritional value.. this might seem like a lot of hassle, its a lot less than it seems.....

If you buy a bag of chicken offcuts on the bone you can make a weeks food from this and not waste anything.

Im not financially strapped but your diet is expensive... i don't throw away things like carrot peel or chicken bones etc. its full of goodness....

If you eat a chicken and just pull of the meat you are getting less than 50% of the vitamins and protein, the bones are full of gelatin that boils out and take the calcium with it (good for celaics) vitamis etc are concetrated under the skins of vegetables.

There is basically not much to it except thowing the stuff in a big pan and boiling it and then pulling the chicken offcuts out after an hour and pulling the meat off..it will just slide off. Everything else will still be in the pan, if you eat boiled carrots for instance the water is orange because it contains the vitamin 'A' but you thrown that away....

You can often scrounge the tops off leeks or celery or carrots etc from a grocer, they just throw them out. Offer them a $ for a big back if they are heartless!

sorry opened this and got distracted.... so its the next day now.

Hello there, gfp. Oh, my gosh! You mean to say that I can use my beloved "Wooster" Sauce? (That's the way mother pronounced it. Her people were from southern Mississippi and Louisiana, and for some reason they pronounced some words the English way. Another word is "again," which rhymes with "rain.") I was afraid Worcester Sauce might have gluten in it, because the label doesn't say gluten free.

You make a roux with cornstarch? I would never have thought to do that. In fact, I've been a bit down-hearted, wondering how on earth I'd ever be able to make a gumbo or a thick soup without flour. Come to think of it, maybe rice flour would also work.

Thanks ever so much for the recipes!!! I'll print them out, and try them one by one. When I make a tomato/mozzarello/basil salad, I drizzle it with Brianna's Vinaigrette. Using pesto would be a nice change. There's such a thing as gluten free bacon? What's the brand? We might not have the same brand here though. (I'm guessing you're English, and a wee bit Italian.)

Cissie

First off you need to find specific GLUTEN FREE worcester sauce and soy sauce. They are relatiuvely expensive but you don't use much .....

Their are a few ways to make gluten-free roux... depending what consistency you want but the ones I used are cornstarch because of the self-imposed 10 minute limit! However this is probably as good as any for pasta dishes excepting canneloni/lasagne etc.

You can make a normal roux with butter and rice/potato/chick pea and other gluten-free flours.... or a mix of a few.

For instance thinkening a curry I use chick pea but when making boeuf bourgnion I use a mix of rice and potatoe ... gluten free bacon depends where you are.... In the UK much of it is injected with wheat starch as a forming agent and make it slice thinner however real butchers bacon with nothing added is gluten-free. You need to take local advice on this... Im sure lots of the cooks here know the best US brands and places.

Indeed I see ChelsE has already helped out..

Anyway, that was just the first 10 variations on a theme ... what to do with gluten-free pasta in the time it takes to cook... more or less just off the top of my head. This is the type of thing I tend to make for myself when alone so I thought I would start off like that and just stuck to pasta (and Italian) to prove the point. There are a few that take a little longer I missed out and I bet I can find 20 more if I think... I usually let the market decide what looks good rather than planning which I only really do for dinner parties.

The whole point is you just need to do things in the correct order ... you are cooking for yourself mostly so I'm just coming up with things which are nutritious, use fresh veg and meat etc. Since you obviously know how to cook Im just listing stuff and the order to get it done in the requisite time ... later we can do the 15 mins total prep time for dishes to put in a crock pot... though some of these take 24 hours in total you are only actually doing prep for 15 mins... and the benefit is you can leave it cooking and eat when you're ready.

I won't pretend these dishes are as good as one which has love and attention put into it, they are not but then neither is a dish you cook for yourself as nice as one cooked for you. You spent your whole life pouring love and attention into cooking for others so these ideas are just to break the habit... my gradma could never cook anything that didn't take 6 hours she had a large family and her job was feeding it which she did very well.

If you have access to an Asian supermarket this expands your choice even more.... probably 1001 not 101

Practically all stir fry can be made in 10 minutes ....

If you like we can do 101 recipees in the time it takes to cook rice ... I doubt you will be the only one to benefit but I need to do them at your level not someone who can't cook else it will take forever.

The other thing I tend to do is make my own stocks and mixes...

chicken stock for instance is excellent and since I need the calcium (and most of us do) especially you probably I use all the bones. .... this is something i usually have going 1-2 a week and if its only for you then you can use the chicken bones and scraps from what you eat .... its also incredibly cheap.

mixes i tend to make up are garam masarla (because Im english and curries are our national dish now), I also love them and also my own mixes like mexican and cajun ... just to use as the base for something else.

Once you have them it cuts down the prep time ....

11/ chicken risotto (technically this is cheating because the rice goes in after 3-4 minutes but I'm including it because its simple, easy and delicious...and with the variations actually something I would serve at a dinner party and I'm really fussy.)

Start off with a big frying pan olive oil and a finely chopped onion until its clear then add some chicken and cook through (if you made your own stock you will have the meat you take off the bones and this is ideal but if not just chop up a chicken breast while the onions soften) along with some mixed herbs and thinly sliced garlic ....(I also tend to add chopped celery but this isn't exactly traditional)

(optionally I add pork shoulder here ... this takes a while to cut...because I need to control my calories and I cut off most the fat then reduce the olive oil accordingly...) you can also add a gluten free spicy saussage (anything like chorizo) ... so we are basically making Italian gumbo...

this should fry until the pork shoulder is cooked....I make cubes about 1/8" then add a cup full of arborio rice. You can use other rice but then its probably technically a paella. (this gets me an extra recipe )

fry the rice for about 1-2 minutes in the mix of oil and everything and it becomes just a little transparent .. at this point you add optionally a glass of dry white wine or a dry vermouth (again check the brand is gluten-free) and a 1/2 tsp of celery salt

(celery salt is a great season all - I call it the healthy MSG... and it adds that bit of depth which is sometimes missing from 15-20 minute food. )

then you need to add the right amount of chicken stock .. this is a bit of practice and depends heavily on the type of rice you use (and the lid to the frying pan) but once you get it right you can practically forget it while it cooks which excuses the 3-4 minutes cooking before you add the rice

Basically 3 measures of stock to each measure of rice is a good starting point....if you are using stock cubes then make sure you boil a kettle as soon as the onions are chopped

once the stock is in you can add dried porcini ... if its autumn and you have access to fresh then they need frying with the chicken etc. but then you would wanto to be a bit more selective about the exact herbs ... (thyme and nipitella which is a particular type of thyme but hard to find outside Italy) the you just cook it on low until the stock is adsorbed.

12/ seafood paella.... pretty much like above except you can leave out the wine and substitute pre-cooked prawns, clams etc.

13/ "curry paste" Indian curry.... curry paste is a valid way to make any curry, you can make your own or buy a commerical one and use it as a base. A surprising number of pastes are gluten-free and contain only spices fried in oil and stuck in a jar.

In most cases the suggested recipees are on the jar's but soem work out better than others.

You can make double or triple and stick the rest in a crock pot for an extra day as well.

Mostly you can get away with a can of tomatoes and an onion added to whatever meat as a base.

things like potatoes are nice to soak up the juices but these need longer to cook....(you can add these to the part going into a stock pot)

You can also add canned cooked lentils

14/ Chilli..... with trimmings

After putting the water on to boil for the rice ....You can start off with the onions and a seperate pan with cumin and cilantro seeds. while the onions soften just heat the seeds and keep moving around just to toasting....

Pull them off the heat and grind in a mortar and pestle you can make a week or two's supply at once but they loose the fresh ground flavor any longer. keep the heat on.....

Seperate off enough to season your tastes... and throw in with the meat of your choice, ground beef is fastest... meanwhile open a can of cooked kidney beans and seperate off a few to add to the chilli if you wish and take the rest and flash fry with another onion and some of the cumin, cilantro and celery salt.... and chopped garlic

by the time this is cooked you can add a can of tomatoes to the chilli pan ....and throw the kidney beans into a food processor and stick on pulse for a few goes (I like refried beans largely recognisable as beans not puree ...) now turn off the heat if electric or put on low if gas.... and empty the beans back for a minute or so.... while cleaning out the processor.... grab an avocado and scoop it out into the processor adding some

garlic and the cilatro cumin mix some lime juice and corn oil.

Obviously if you have other preferences on the guacamole go for it....

By the time the rice is done you should have chilli with refried beans and gaucamole.

As above you can make extra and stick it in the crock pot.

15/ .. and this is with trepidation ... quick gumbo....

OK .. firstly this would probably get me killed in parts of Louisiana .. quick gumbo? but lets try. It will be frantic...

1 pre cooked chicken which you know is gluten-free.... and pre-cooked shrimps deshelled....

onions, celery tops, carrots chopped, garlic, smashed with a cleaver then chopped ...

Spices : In a small cheesecloth bag or tea ball, place: tsp black peppercorns, cracked (use a towel and back of cleaver) A few parsley stems and a bayleaf, 1/2 tsp each dried thyme, tarragon, oregano, basil.....

Start off with a big pan and boiling water from a kettle (this will be used for the quick stock) and a seperate pan and a microwave bowl with water for the carrots (its the only way to cook em fast enough) add these to the rest of the quick stock after 10 minutes in the micro with all the juice

Pull off the chicken breast and obvious meaty parts and throw the rest in the pot... if you have the prawn shells and heads throw these in as well. Everything so far is in the quick stock pot....

meanwhile you need to kick off the roux.... a mixed gluten-free flour is better than corn starch for this ....

tastes vary as to the color of the roux from caramel to coffee ....you are going to have to keep stiring this....

Once this is going you can start off the louisiana long grain rice ....

The Gumbo:

chicken you pulled off, andouille sausage, sliced about 1/4" thick on the bias (you may substitute hot or mild smoked sausage if good andouille isn't available) and/or fresh Creole hot sausage, browned the rest of the shrimp, lump white crabmeat, picked over for shells and cartilage , sliced okra (also par boiled in the micro) 1 onion: chopped, bunch green onions with tops, chopped, tinned roasted bell peppers, chopped, celery, chopped, more garlic smashed and chopped bay leaf and chopped fresh parsley ... black, white and cayenne peppers: to taste, salt to taste and Tabasco to taste.

brown the onions then add the rest... give it until the rice is almost done and add the stock through a seive.

Take this off the heat and add the roux.... and then stir through the roux leaving until you have drained the rice and rinced in boiling water...

Not quite the real thing but takes 6-8 hours less time

Quick egg freied rice

1/4 cup water and pinch salt and 1-1/2 teaspoons gluten-free soy sauce

1/4 cup basmati or thai rice rinced in cold water.

Cook the rice until its almost done (5 minutes from end and still a bit chewy) drain and in the same saucepan bring water, salt and soy sauce to a boil. Add rice back and stir. Remove from heat, cover and let stand 5 minutes.

1/4 teaspoon vegetable oil, 1/2 onion, finely chopped (or fresh salad onions even better) 2 tablespoons green beans, lightly beaten egg and pinch ground black pepper

Heat oil in a medium skillet or wok over medium heat. Saute onions and green beans for 2 to 3 minutes. Pour in egg and fry for 2 minutes, scrambling egg while it cooks.

The rice has now stood for 5 minutes : Stir in the cooked rice, mix well and sprinkle with pepper.

Hope you all enjoyed my quote, haha. I guess I am just not sure how to broach the subject with him considering the fact that I have been unsuccessful in the past. Suggestions?

This would largely depend on his character.

We are having a whole thread at the moment about celaics with "social disorders" it won't hurt to read it.

Open Original Shared Link

Also at one point I terrified myself about food, its easy to do when everything seems to have potential to make you ill. Also in the thread above if you took a sliding scale between Ursual and a "normal" person I feel I fit inbetween but if Im glutened I do a big slide in Ursula's direction.

On top of this I become someone I don't like, become depressed and generally push people away ....

It could be your BF has noticed his mood changes and is scared to go back to that place for fear of loosing you. If he gets glutened it could be weeks till he returns fully to normal... are you ready for it?

So, DID you get that laptop for your daughter? That sounds like a fabulous idea! I think every Aspie needs his/her own computer. I have great difficulty with handwriting. I can write legibly, without mistakes for about half a page, and then it will deteriorate. My mind will go faster than my poorly coordinated hand will write, and I end up making mistakes, cross them out, write over top etc., it looks very messy. On a bad day I mess up my own signature!

That is exactly like me, especially the signature thing. Wow can that one be a stumbler when signing a cheque. I get halfway through and my mind is just blank. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence with a teller.

But typing is easy. I type very fast with all ten fingers, without looking at the keys at all. The great thing is, that I can easily fix my mistakes and nobody ever knows the difference.

Yep if I try to write something I just trip myself over, like a big puppy who's feet are way to big. The more important or interesting thing Im writing the worse it is because my mind is racing further and further ahead.

I can understand Temple walking away when your husband laughed, I would have done the same thing. What he said and did would have been extremely insulting to her!

Actually, it was Temple Grandin I quoted in an earlier post, you know the one about if we were all NTs we'd still be living in caves, socializing. I just didn't mention who I quoted, because I thought that most people wouldn't know who she was, anyway.

Ursula: I would have had no idea but I intend to look it up now you mentioned it.

Also most of the NT's reading this will probably realise that I think you are highly intellegent and add a great deal to this forum but you probably don't because I never said it directly hence I am telling you directly.

Ya know, if you think about how sexy someone sounds when speaking English with a foreign accent, ya gotta figure that speaking French with an American accent must sound pretty sexy to a native French speakers ears.

That is easy to say and true from what I'm told but it really doesn't help.

I am terribly embarassed speaking French even though my level is somewhat better than the average tourist. Partly its because I know I should be better but mainly its because I can't say exactly what I mean the same way I do in English. As I mentioned earlier my first words in English were a sentence and I guess I just didn't want to say anything until then.

I am the same in French, I hate to not be able to say exactly what I want... going back to what Ursula said about typing ... this is my preferred method of communication because I am able to make sure Im saying exactly what I mean... especially to differentiate opinion, belief and fact. This is incredibly important to me in communication ... I prefer to say exactly what I mean not beat around the bush which also leads to long posts because I want to make sure I have explained what I mean.

While talking in French I am self concious all the time that I am not as direct as I would like to be.

I also use English as a defensive mechanism, I can be very articulate when I choose, indeed when Ursual talked about being bullied it made me remember the number of times I have torn apart some bully without laying a finger on them tot he point where a "high functioning bully" is unable to be violent without looking completely stupid, however the neanderthals I don't bother, they are too stupid to even realise they look ridiculous inthe first place.

I hate being overheard talking in English as well... I think largely because if someone makes a comment I am not able to respond as I would in English but neither do I find it easy to ignore snide comments.

I realize the choices for staying with or leaving a spouse are very complex and even though my desire is to say "Toss the M####er F####er out on his @$$." You obviously get some benefit from the relationship as you have chosen to stay with him.

I rather expect its more complex,

Ursula: You possibly provide an insight when you say how you tend to focus on a task. "I go in cycles of obsessively learning about a single subject at a time, which right now is celiac disease"

When this is combined with your obvious intellegence and problems communicating feelings etc. you probably make your husband feel very inadequate. As you have said you are almost always correct and that can really annoy people... they don't realise that you have let lots of things slide by because you were not certain, all they realise is that when you do say something its usually not only correct but you have proof. I suspect that for you (as with myself) its not about being the person who is correct it is about the facts ... I find it very dishonest to let errors slip by .. leaving someone in error is like lying to me.

I had this pointed out by my ex-wife when she was telling me why she didn't love me anymore.

She pointed out how she used to be amazed by my dedication to a single task but that over time she got fed up waiting for the continual string of dedicated tasks to end and for me to devote time to her and her feelings. Probably most importantly the fact I couldn't tell when she was really upset over something etc.

O yes, and one more thing, I wrote parisinfo.com, they said, and I quote:

No help there...

Josh.

and you get the same response from AFDIAG .....

I'm glad you found the site useful. AS I mention on the front page Im thinking of just changing it to an info site since leaving it the way it is involves a finite amount of security work and so far noone has used the forum (with the exception of one person) or used the ability to submiot links and articles....

I can't quite work out what's wrong with it so if anyone has let me know....

I find it interesting to compare and contrast Ursula's, gfp's and my experiences. Granted Ursula feels she is at an extreme of the non-standard socializing spectrum, but I still think it's valid to include her in the comparison. Ursula has stated that she was made to feel inadequate as a child and had to struggle to be "good enough". gfp felt as though he had to conform to other's norms in order to get by. My parents never for one second let me feel that I was less than others and so I feel confortable with my weird ways.

From what I am learning on this thread I'm quite amazed how some of what Ursual says fits whereas other's don't but as Ursula said she managed to get all the characteristics ....

The thing is my parents never made me feel less than others but they did make me not feel normal.

My father's friends are mainly scientists, engineers or mathematicians and when I was very young he had me solving math problems to race against them. Hence for me math became something where you visualise the numbers and shout out the answer ... In most cases I would have no idea how I came to the answer only know its correct.

Society has some stupid stupid rules.... card counting is illegal ... I can't not count cards, it doesn't take any effort so even playing with friends for fun I can't help doing it. Its funny at first until everyone gets upset at me for keeping winning. If I do math and am forced to dfo the working I'm apt to be confused, I'll keep getting lost and repeating myself wheras if I can just give the answer I can give it usually very quickly and with total certainty.

I can't do a conversion equation the way everyone else in science does it, but my way gives the same answer. When I ask someone to check my math before starting an experiment I just tell them that they won't be able to follow my equation, it's easier if they do it their way and we just compare answers.

This is the same for me, often the equation has a visual aspect I can just see. This was something i found hard in analytical work but forced myself .. however I still can't tie my own laces like anyone else.

The problem is that there are many children who are not going to learn to read very well, regardless of how important a skill it is. Do we keep them in school struggling with reading exercises until they leave, still illiterate, or do we try to teach them through other means - such as listening to books on tape and watching videos?

Good point and the problem is identifying the children and why they are stuggling.

Some children are stuggling because of the way it is being taught and others perhaps because they lack the applied intellegence to read.

What tends to happen is gifted children with learning disabilities are subjected to the same methods as those who lack the basic means.

In terms of the gifted children this tends to exasperate the problem and set a low achievement goal, I know

I was in a "remedial class" for 4 years.

Indeed the whole system is screwed up.... The reason I was put in the remedial class was my refusal to accept ITA and the lies the teachers told me. I refused point blank to write in ITA including my name and therefore I received near zero on every test regardless of subject.

For this I was subjected to watching endless videos and punishments to learn how not to read and write.

I also learned that making sure I was close the 50th percentile of the class was important ...

At 11 I left this school and took entrance exams to several schools... I was awarded several scholarships, entry in the the "grammar school" (public school for the top percentiles) etc. All this I did in a language I had not learned at school where I was considered remedial.

later ...when i was in the 2nd year of high school 11-16 After being placed in the top set in the first year (based on examination) I was put into the remedial set in the 2nd and subsequent years ....

I had a teacher who gave us stupid homework tests everyday. We had to do stupid tests like cat is to mouse as..... and following what I had learned in school made sure I always got 30-40% which was the average in my class. The teacher thought he was smart... we had a red pen and had to mark our own work... the punishment for having a blue pen in class was the cane... so we had to hand them all in before the marking started ....

Of course he only ever checked what was marked correct, not what was marked incorrect so I didn't even have to falsify answers ... all I did was mark 60% incorrect. One day we had to swap books... the person who marked mine read out my mark (100%) to which he replied .. don't be ridiculous .. lets see what does he normally get... OK 35% ....

Now the point is what if instead of standardising the school had accepted I could already read and write....

My girlfriend is almost entirely bilingual yet she was made to attend English class in France. She was marked down for not mispronouncing words "correctly" according to her English teacher who can't speak English. However her French is what she learned in the playground, watching TV etc. Her written French is not perfect to the same degree as her English .. Rather like my English she can write at a certain standard in French but is unable to explain the rules. (think how frustrating this is for me, it would really help me) ...

Just as my English is imperfect and uneducted so is her French, indeed I know more formal French grammar than she does when it comes to tenses like past subjunctive or simple past. However my French isn't even comparable to hers ... she has no detectable accent and a linguistics professor finds it difficult to find any trace of a non Parisian accent however doing her dual law degree she had to work twice as hard in French as in English for the formal language.

Now the question is why should she have wasted several hours a week 'learning' a language she spoke better than her teacher when she could have been learning the French grammar she missed?

In her final Bac results she gained a 20/20 in English (along with around 6 other people in France that year) yet only got 16/20 in French. (Somewhere about the 75th percentile, marking in France is very very tough you can completely fail a history or geography test with 20 spelling mistakes or grammatic errors let alone a French language test) Would it not have been more sensible to break the curriculum and have her do extra French?

This is the basic problem in schools.... they are unable to cope with anyone outside their idea of levels.

Paul McCartney cannot read music.

Exactly my point..and I can't say I'm surprised. most musicians I know consider McCartney as someone who could even make a mess of Lennon's work. Its a sure fire way to bring out an arguament in most musical circles way better than asking who's the best guitarist ever or such.

Which brings me nicely to an observation on the school system.... edit mine!

As soon as your born they make you feel small,

By giving you no time instead of it all,

Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,

A working class hero is something to be,

A working class hero is something to be.

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,

They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,

Till you're so doggone crazy you can't follow their rules,

A working class hero is something to be,

A working class hero is something to be.

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,

Then they expect you to pick a career,

When you can't really function you're so full of fear,

A working class hero is something to be,

A working class hero is something to be.

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,

And you think you're so clever and classless and free,

But you're still ****ing peasents as far as I can see,

A working class hero is something to be,

A working class hero is something to be.

There's room at the top they are telling you still,

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill,

A working class hero is something to be.

A working class hero is something to be.

If you want to be a hero well just follow me,

If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

Which I think is more poignant than the Frog song.

Great ideas! I'm going to add a crock pot to my shopping list, as well as those freezer-to-microwave dishes. I'll even drag out the pressure cooker, which I haven't used in ages. Now, gfp, where do I find recipes for those 101 meals that take no more time to prepare than cooking rice?

OK lets start off with 10 variations on gluten-free pasta....Im hitting summer recipees mainly here....

Its also more challenging because the pasta takes less time to cook!

1./ Cook pasta... while the water is waiting to boil warm some sour cream and add smoked salmon and chives ...

Wait for the pasta to finish cooking, drain and pour over the sauce....(you will be twiddling your thumbs for 8-10 minutes while the pasta cooks

2/ Instead of salmon ... take some cooked ham and some dried porcini mushrooms .. stick the porcini in a cup in the micro and heat it till almost boiling (the flavour comes out this way) then add the cooked ham and if you like cooked chicken, a dash of celery salt, pepper and its done... grated parmesan is optional.

if you have no cooked ham/chicken you can just cube it and flash fry it while the pasta is cooking and then you can add the juices from the pan too.

3/ While cooking the pasta stick a cup of basil, a clove of garlic some olive oil, table spoon of pine nuts and parmesan in a food processor or in a cup with a hand blender. the oil should be enough to just make it all paste and a little extra ... instant pesto. You have time to clean the processor before the pasta finishes.

4/ basic bolgnaise (this needs timing to do in 10 minutes but that is just practice)

Walk into the kitchen and switch on two hobs if they are electric and stick the pan on for the pasta meanwhile start sling onions (this is practice and I guess you can chop an onion in 30 secs like me, if not its just practice but I don't wanna teach you to suck eggs ... just shell em quickly )

Start frying the onion in some olive oil on fairly low then continue to chop some garlic, if you wanna do it in 10 mins then I cut both ends of the garlic, hit it with the flat of a cleaver (lay the cleaver on it then bang it .. be careful garlic oil can burn) then the skin falls off ... then mince the remaining garlic with a rocking motion.... with practice takes 20 seconds .... as the onions are clear add mixed herbs, minced beef and the garlic and fry for 2-3 minutes then add a tin of tomatoes... and some tomatoe puree if you have some. If the tomatoes are not pre chopped you can do it in the pan I just use a flat spatula and cut them on top of it... it cuts the cooking time down....

take out a cup and some corn starch and add a little water to make a paste and then a bit more till it pours...

when the pasta is cooked drain it and leave it in the seives as you take the sauce off the heat and add the corn starch, stir it in and bring it back to near boiling whilst it thickens .... dribble a bit of olive oil over the pasta stick in a bowl and add the sauce.

5/ Basic arribiata ... (my way)

Start with onions then start chopping bell peppers and some chilli ... simply add this instread of the meat...

6/ Primavera ... gluten-free tagliatelli (the challenge here is it usually only takes 5-6 minutes for gluten-free tagliatelli or vermicelli)

While vermicelli is cooking, heat oil in saucepan. Add garlic and chicken breasts cut into slivers; saute until browned.3/4 cup tomato sauce. Add 3/4 cup chicken broth (If I don't have my opwn I use kallo organic gluten-free)

Salt and pepper to taste 2 cups broccoli florets, 1 cup sliced zucchini, 2 carrots, sliced (the trick is very thin)

1 red pepper, seeded and sliced

You can also use pre cooked vegetables which have been frozen or put aside....

7/ Fettuccini Pollo aromatico

chicken breasts, bone and skin removed, 1/4 small onion, chopped, 2 tablespoons fresh parsley, 2 tablespoons fresh basil, 1 tablespoon fresh rosemary, 1/2 teaspoon thyme

1 cup heavy whipping cream

2 tablespoons butter

1/2 pound fettuccine, cooked

1 cup mozzarella cheese

Saute chicken in the butter over medium heat for 5 minutes; add onions, cream and all the seasonings. Let cream mixture come to a boil and add fettuccine. Add cheese and toss until sauce clings to pasta. Serve hot.

8/ Leftover pasta salad ... well I usually end up cookingf too much rather than too little

Brush zuccini and egg plant in strips with olive oil and mixed herbs then on a griddle cook through until they show nice brwnded parts .. optionally add some artichoke in oil...(I say this because artichoke takes ages to cook, even in a pressure cooker). or most decent antipasta which is simply grilled veg in oil... while doing this you can actually make your own antipasta, stick in jars and have ready to add to other recipees ....

9/ Prawn and or crab meat .. to do it quick buy pre-cooked and shelled prawns and crab meat and any other similar your budget stretches to. Flash fry i olive oil and garlic then add fresh cream and optionally chives.

Pour over pasta .. obviously

10/ 2 tablespoons Olive Oil 1 Red Bell Pepper -- diced 1/2 cup Thinly Sliced Scallions 2 Cloves Garlic -- minced 1/2 tablespoon Minced Fresh Ginger + 1/2 teaspoon Minced Fresh Ginger 1/2 pound Snow Peas -- trimmed and cut diagonally into 1 inch pieces (use frozen snow peas if fresh aren't available) 1 cup Chicken Broth (or kallo instant organic gluten-free) 1/2 teaspoon Salt, pinch Freshly Ground Black Pepper teaspoons Cornstarch

6 ounces Angel Hair or Capellini Pasta

Directions:

Start heating a large pot of water to boiling for the pasta. In a large nonstick skillet, heat the oil until hot but not smoking over medium heat. Add the bell pepper and cook, stirring frequently, until tender, about 5 minutes. Add the scallions, garlic, and ginger and cook, stirring frequently until the scallions are tender, about 4 minutes longer.

Stir in the snow peas and cook until the snow peas are just crisp-tender, about 1 minute. Add the broth, salt, and black pepper and bring to a boil. In a cup, combine the cornstarch and 1 tablespoon of water, stir to blend., and stir into the sauce. Cook, stirring constantly, until the sauce is slightly thickened, about 1 minute longer.

Meanwhile, cook the angel hair pasta in the boiling water until just tender. Drain well. Transfer the vegetable mixture to a large bowl, add the pasta, and toss to combine. Spoon the pasta mixture onto 4 plates and serve.

More later ....

My girlfriend is hungry and want me to cook!

OK, that just took 10 mins to make a BBQ sauce for pork cops....

1. container of apple and pear puree (compote in French) ... table spoon gluten-free soy sauce... pinch celery salt some chilli oil (just dried chillies soaked in sunflower oil) .. dash of gluten-free worcseter sauce (it makes everything so English!) some gluten-free cajun spices and my own garam marsala crushed garlic and some scallions .. drop of sesame oil and throw i the pork chops....

anyway... what I meant to say is that for instance the pesto sauce once made keeps a few days refrigerated so you can then make a really quick tomatoe and mozeralla salad (adding greens of choice) and just dribble pesto over it ... spice it up by grilliing some pine nuts and or gluten-free bacon in strips.....

Yours is the prevalent opinion nowadays - that what matters is improving the kids' "reading skills", it takes priority over all else, and there is no other way to learn. This is remarkable, considering all the theory they teach in education school, where you learn you are expected as a teacher to attempt to recognize each student's learning style and accomodate that.

The problem is that in order to transfer complex information the tools available are written ....

You are completely correct in many ways but one could take an example of someone who excels at a musical instrument without knowing how to read music. That person can actually be an excellent musician and learn music theory through perception of the scales and modes rather than anything written but in order for them to transmit this information it needs to be written because 99%+ of people will never be able to learn this through perception alone. In terms of math or science this is also self limiting.... you can only go so far. At some point a gifted student will exceed their teacher, regardless of the teacher because as Newton said "If I have seen further than others it is standing on the shouders of giants". Building and extending the work of others is intrisically linked to being able to communicate that knowedge.

The problem is that time spent on what they call "literacy" now - basically decoding exercises - is time not spent learning any content. Students in these programs fall behind their classmates in basic understanding. Even if they improve their decoding skills to the point where they are able to read aloud, they do not comprehend what they read, and cannot answer questions about it or rephrase it in their own words. And now they hate "reading", because it is to them nothing but a series of pointless exercises leading to a test that they don't do well on.

I agree completely the problem is how they are trying to teach it.

When I went to school I could already read and write and I was reading "real books" .... in English.

When I got to school the first thing they did was try and unteach that with a phonetic alphabet called ITA. They also from my understanding told me my parents had been lying to me and that ITA was the proper way to read. At this point I went from reading The Hobbit and Enid Blighton to reading "little red hen" all other books you were caught with were confiscated in the name of teaching me how to read.

In other words they had 100% control on your reading matter. They also made observations incredibly confusing... when I went down the street the signs were written in the "false language" ... if I went to a zoo the labels were in the false language .. and your vocabulary was strictly limited to words that were in the reading material they gave you. I believe this was the single most destructive thing school EVER did to me.

Whist learning French I have not spent a single minute learning vocabulary yet I know words which most French people don't even know ... from reading. If I have to look up a word it is most likely NOT in the compact bilingual dictionary. Most of this is thanks to J.K. Rowling with a liberal seasoning of Hugo and other masters not to mention signs in museums but all of it has been learned just by reading and putting into context and the aid of a dictionary.

.... and i still do not understand the fundamentals of English grammar.

While there are many ways to learn besides from books (human interaction being one), often a student who is motivated to learn something will learn to read at the same time as mastering the content in the book. It is a far more natural way of learning than unfocused academic exercises and memorization of arbitrary vocabulary.

I completely agree! But what you are talking about is 'the method' which in my opinion is seriously flawed. I am talking about the importance of being able to read....

Moreoever I think this ability is even more important for those who cannot function in a classroom.....

For instance neither of us have learned what we discuss here in a classroom.... either in this thread nor celiac disease in general and yet I recognise you and Ursula as someone with a very deep knowledge of the subject.

Perhaps working in education you have learned the methods in a classroom but I'm not talking about the methods, I'm talking about the ability to learn and to achieve potential.

Also, keep in mind that mathematics texts are much less language-intensive than literature, while science books often have illustrations to guide the reader through the text.

Yes but then we are talking about different things....

I think we have both the same disdain for vocabulary classes and tests....

I doubt I learned a single word from this the whole time I was in school with the sole exception of "bibliography". I vividly remember learning bibliography as the ONLY word I learned at school. Excepting proper nouns!

Actually I learned quite a few in the playground but I can't repeat them here!

I don't entirely agree with this statement, Ursula. This is like saying that if someone is severely nearsighted, they don't need glasses, they are just different. The reason Asperger's is considered a disorder is that Aspies are usually lacking some abilities that the so-called "neurotypicals" have; moreover, these are the abilities that tend to at least partially define our culture and our society.

While this may be true and of course society is defined by the majority many of these abilities are not necassarily good. If we can talk about "non NT" as opposed to Apsie it might be easier?

I find the whole herd mentality of NT's completely puzzling but it is this herd instinct which in humans leads to tribalism, war and most of the worst attrocities. I could go on but hopefully we all get this point?

I think you may be defining small talk as "useless" simply because you are unable to understand the use for it. If the "neurotypicals" see a definable use for it, is it still useless? Small talk IS useful: its function is to help people become more comfortable when others are suddenly in "their" space, and it serves to let people have an opportunity to read each other's spoken, facial, and body languages in order to make needed assessments either about the other person or about the situation.

At the same time standing back and watching their interaction with others can provide a wealth of information too.

I don't know what I am .. but what I have realised, largely as a result of this thread is I don't have group emotions. You know sometimes I wish I could share smalltalk or share whatever it is people get watching sport in a big crowd although perhaps that is only to be able to have smalltalk... but I don't think anyone can ever teach me ... I think I just completely lack this emotion just like a cat.

If someone has not learned how to read and write, or has not learned enough math to be able to figure out how much money he should pay at the grocery store, shouldn't he be taught these skills? Or should we be afraid of offending him by making him think he needs to be "fixed?

serious mode....

I think there is a difference between teaching math and english and teaching trying to "fix" someones id.

Sorry I'm cat obsessing but I thinkits rather like trying to force a cat into being a pack animal. Cat's just don't have the appropriate responses and although you can force situations then that cat is not itself, indeed its not really a cat in terms of physchology. We might prefer a cat that fetches slippers and the newspaper, herds sheep etc. and perhaps its possible to train them but the resulting aninmal will not be a cat psychlogically.

You know, NTs are lacking some abilities Aspies have, too. And sometimes when we join a different culture, we seem to fit in after all. Because not all cultures value chitchat and parties and being touchy feely all the time. The problem is, that the societal rules in our culture are so ill defined, and you're supposed to 'intuitively know' what is right, that Aspies are simply lost.

This is very true ... I have learned smalltalk as a social skill ... what I didn't learn is the application in other cultures. When I lived in Norway small talk is considered rude and I would constantly try and do my self-imposed smalltalk I had taught myself to do. What I lacked was the ability to see where smalltalk was inapproapriate.

I have tried awfully hard to act like other people all my life and to follow their rules, and could still never fit in and was rejected and ridiculed and bullied, at home, in school and in almost every workplace I've been in. I've tried my best, but my best was never good enough. If I almost succeeded, I'd be told I am still not trying hard enough, if only I'd try even harder, maybe I'd measure up.

Depending what you mean by bullying noone ever bullied me physcially at school, I was way to strange to be physically bullied and everyone knew regardless of our relative sizes they would be seriously hurt regardless of how much they could hurt me. On the very few occaisions anyone ever tried I would just concentrate on doing the most damage to them, noone ever tried a second time. However bullying is a complete NT trait, its part of the tribe mentality. What the bully wants is submission to their authority because they are trying to be the tribal leader.

And as in being taught social skills, it would have been nice if somebody would have taught me as a child how to make friends, how to defend myself against bullies, and some social rules, instead of assuming that 'everybody' knows how to do those things.

Friends are people you can communicate with.... wouldn't it be better if the NT's were taught how to be nice to others? Defending against bullies is easy, you hurt them. We are told we should tell a teacher ... however this is usually the worst possible thing to do. The tribe is usually in opposition to the teachers ... the idea is to make an us and them and if you go to a teacher you demonstrate to the tribe you are with "them" ... (as in the teachers) Moreoever the bully is probably head of the football team or something and will be protected anyway while you will be told to clean up your social skills.

So we hit social skills ....

The point is that social skills are defined by tribalism ... submission to bullies is part of tribalism, running with the pack is part of tribalism .... those who support bullies are part of a tribe.

where does this lead ? (forget the politics of say Desert Storm just the reactions) .. This leads to groups of people sat round a TV set cheering as a bunker full of people who's major crime is being part of another tribe is blown up. You could switch the channel to baseball and the reaction would be the same to a home run...

Personally I see a world of difference between a useless but harmless act like a home run and blowing up 200 people! It appears to me that many high end functioning NT's don't.

But there is only so much somebody like me can be taught. I am incapable of reading between the lines, or understanding hints, or follow instructions if one step is missing, and I always take everything people say literally.

I disagree that there is only so much you can be taught ... since you have obviously self-taught yourself a lot. Maybe you can only be taught so much in certain areas or maybe you can only be taught so much in a classroom.

Personally I have great problems in classrooms and great problems with text books that deliberatly lie.

We get taught facts that the teachers know are wrong...be this in science or language.

We get taught atoms are the smallest matter or we don't need to use the past subjunctive when what they mean is you don't need to know that now....

however this is completely incorrect .. some of us absolutely DO need to know that.

Your example was with phonics but I suspect the major problem was being told "you don't need to know that now concentrate on this"

I work in schools, and it's clear to me that standardizing kids in the "typical" mode is a primary priority. If a child is introverted, the parents will work on that child as though this is something that can and needs to be changed.

Just a little off-topic but I felt I wanted to comment on this before other things....

I think this is the undeclared primary purpose of schools.

Not in a conspiracy sense I just think schools all end up with few exceptions basically trying to impose social norms on the child and academic issues are a secondary concern.

So many children I see have reading difficulties but other talents, so what do we do? We pull them out of classes to give them endless reading exercises, so they end up not learning what it was they were supposed to be reading about.

This one is quite difficult. Personally I didn't learn much at school prior to 16-18 and on.... certainly the UK sylabii can be covered in 2-3 weeks in a bright kid for everything that academically has taken place from 5-16 certainly to a pass level. In most cases each subject can be adequately covering in a single text book of 500 pages ... (of course if they add/take things from the sylabus the single text book is kinda theoretical but I mean theoretically)

A non academic example is diving courses ... you start off with a set of things you must learn and be able to do like hold your breath for x minutes, retreive a weight of x pounds etc. etc. and then each level they increase the minutes and weight and add a few academic questions. Its just items that can be examined. What if I can hold my breath for 5 minutes from the beginning? In reality most of the course is just a timewaster so that you can take the time to gain the practical experience, saving someones life in theory and practice are of course different things... but school is very much the same, largely the sylabii are just defined to make for exams and to provide examinable questions that can be structured.

Learning to read is a fundamental to self education, very little can be taught without it and especially in the case of those who function badly in a classroom.

Then we discourage them from advancing their knowledge and skills in their true area of interest, because we can't let them get ahead of the other kids. Horrors! Letting a child get way ahead in math or science while being a year behind at reading, can't have that!

Here Im not sure, the chance of a kid getting a year ahead all by themselves if they can't read seems pretty hard. Where else would they get the information to be a year ahead if they can't read.

I think what you might mean is "examinable" reading? Like reading aloud ?

The problem is I think that schools put an inordinate amount of effort into making the process as slow as possible. Standards drop every year and with them the length of time someone is at school has increased since the beginning of the 20C. where 13-14 was a more common age to finish school.

So much talent is wasted, and the kids end up becoming frustrated and losing interest in school.

Just on a seperate subject: Not meaning to hijack the thread ...

This is perhaps a family legend... quite how true it is is based on my mothers memory which I think had perhaps exagerated it over the years.... and is never so reliable anyway.

My first words were "give me scissors" after my mother driving herself (her whole family and the doctor) to dispair I was ever going to say anything... I started speaking very late.... but the incident apparently took place after my mother placed a mobile over my cot .. I guess it annoyed the hell outa me so i wanted to cut it down.

Apparently at this point I hed yet to say moma or popa (I think this but might be exagerated) but then just came out with the whole sentence.. the implications I guess being I could talk all along I just had nothing worth saying.

Just wondering about any other late starters? Is it related an all.

some good thoughts and observations ....

This is a very interesting thread.

gfp, I just read through your analysis of different events and some of them are similar to experiences and emotions that I have/had. Part of my issues I think are related to being a scientist and not really being interested in anything I'm not studying or can't learn from - like sports.

I agree and I'm glad you mention that because its the nature vs nurture question. Doubly complex by having a father who is a scientist .. and I obviously inhereted genes as well.

However its not the sport itself ... indeed when I was 18 I was competing in solo sports at a national level.

It is the crowd and tribal mentality that makes me feel very uncomfortable. As I said I feel like a cat watching a pack of dogs completely unable to comprehend what they are sharing and to some extent unable to seperate that from a threat. I think the scientist in me is asking what is so captivating about the ball being kicked about but this is rather subservient to the feeling I get from the group mentality....

However, for the last few years I've been commuting with groups of normal people who make (gentle) fun of my lack of socialization and have slowly been teaching me how to interact with other people more normally. This makes me wonder if some of what people are describing on this thread is an exageration of normal (for them) tendencies.

I'm not gregarious by nature and I avoid large group events when I don't have a specific task, but because I've my friends' help, parties are no longer dreaded events. Now I go to work or volunteer functions with the idea that it might not be as much fun as staying at home reading a book, but it won't be so bad either.

I do spend time with 'normal people' ... I just don't "get" the shared emotions (I think) .. however I also manage parties so long as it doesn't revolve around me...

On the other hand I can be completely at ease in front of 5000 people giving a lecture... so long as its my research subject ... as part of my MSc. we had to present our thesis and being me I was different and actually working for one of the guest lecturers who had a consultancy miles away ... I found out that everyone else was being given lessons by the drama dept as the final presentation is a big big thing with lots of industry involvement, sponsorships and the like.

I called up the head of course and he just said he didn't think I needed any coaching ... I guess he was correct since I did my presentation and was offered multiple jobs and research grants on the strength of it.

I didn't even really plan it and half way through deviated from the plan to a whiteboard .... and three years later I presented at the Barbican to 5000 people.... again not an issue and people keep coming to me for presentation advice ... or I get lected presenter .. so in a professional context I have no problems but if I'm invited to staff parties and things this is. I just don't know how to interact socially at this sort of thing so I keep bringing the conversation back to technical stuff...

Equally I also had a friend in a past job, I still keep in touch and his socialisation issues go way beyond mine... but he manages to do poetry readings and write the Times crossword on occaision as a guest.

However his son is severely different, he was at the top of a class of gifted children by a fair margin .. however I didn't know this and one day my friend announced his son was building a PC... having an attic full of spares I invited him over and had a few words then spent a couple of hours chatting, gave him some bits n pieces and saw them off and went to work the next day.... My friend was completely and utterly flabergasted ... apparently his son hadn't said more than a few words in a sentence for a long time not even to his teachers and only communicated with his father.... we had spent a good 2 hours chatting and his father had left without saying anything ... he asked me to spend some time with them which I did and we never had any problem talking even ion front of others... but if my ex asked him a question he would just look like a deer in the headlights.

I've noticed that some of the people that feel they have real socialization issues tend to post a lot on this site. Maybe they don't have trouble interacting with people, but rather have trouble with the thought that people don't understand them. So by writing what they want to convey, they can be fairly certain that what they want to say has been said as clearly as possible.

Again I think this helps but is not perhaps the whole story. Back to my presenting.. I just make sure I know more than anyone else in the room. I make sure I have facts to back everything up and I'm more than fine. Posting here I can find fact to back up what I say... but i can also be very eloquent orally when I want to be.

However what I hate is presenting to peple who don't undertstand the subject and want a management overview and I can't provide the evidence I need.

Maybe we don't want to be alone, maybe we just don't want to feel alone in a room full of people.

That's very profound! I think it certainly captures the spirit of a lot of the issues.