High Gliadin levels

[May2000]

Hello, I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Both my celiac panel and biopsy came back negative for celiac with one exception: my Gliadin(Deamidated) Ab, IgG, Value came back very high at 324.2. It was high back in 2017 as well, but has steadily gone up. My specialist at UC Davis does not know what to make out of it at all. I’m curious if anyone can point me in the right direction. Has anyone else experienced this? 

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, May2000!

Have you been observing a gluten-free diet over the course of time during which these tests were run?

[May2000]

Just now, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, May2000!

Have you been observing a gluten-free diet over the course of time during which these tests were run?

I was not following a gluten free diet while these tests were run. However, since two doctors don’t know what to make out of the results, they recommended a gluten-free diet. 

[trents]

What symptoms are you having?

[May2000]

2 minutes ago, trents said:

What symptoms are you having?

Bloating, stomach pain, diarrhea. 

[trents]

I'm guessing you have may have NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity). NCGS and Celiac Disease share many of  the same symptoms. The difference being that celiac disease damages the villous lining of the small bowel (what the biopsy is checking for). There is no approved test for NCGS. Celiac disease must first be ruled out.

Have you been checked for H. Pylori? IBS? Crohns? SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth)? It's certainly time to trial the gluten free diet to see if your symptoms improve. If not, then look in a different direction.

[May2000]

4 minutes ago, trents said:

I'm guessing you have may have NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity). NCGS and Celiac Disease share many of  the same symptoms. The difference being that celiac disease damages the villous lining of the small bowel (what the biopsy is checking for). There is no approved test for NCGS. Celiac disease must first be ruled out.

Have you been checked for H. Pylori? IBS? Crohns? SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth)? It's certainly time to trial the gluten free diet to see if your symptoms improve. If not, then look in a different direction.

Thank you for your reply. That’s  interesting and I’ll have to look into NCGS. I wonder why it would only drive up the Gliadin and nothing else though? As far as all of the other tests you outlined, I did them all and more. 

[May2000]

7 minutes ago, May2000 said:

Thank you for your reply. That’s  interesting and I’ll have to look into NCGS. I wonder why it would only drive up the Gliadin and nothing else though? As far as all of the other tests you outlined, I did them all and more. 

I should add that I do have IBS. 

[trents]

It's not unusual for only one celiac antibody test to be positive. More common than not, probably. But the most tell-tale test you had is the biopsy. Having said that, we are aware that biopsies are not always performed in a thorough manner. Damage to the small bowel villi can be patchy and can be missed unless multiple samples are taken from both the duodenum and the duodenum bulb.

Again, the next diagnostic step would seem to be the trial of a gluten free diet. Give it three or four months anyway. Eating gluten free can be much more challenging than most realize because of the many surprising places gluten turns up in the food supply and because of cross contamination. Here is a primer that should be helpful:

 

[trents]

I would also make you aware that many people who actually are suffering from a gluten-related disorder are misdiagnosed with IBS.

[May2000]

4 minutes ago, trents said:

It's not unusual for only one celiac antibody test to be positive. More common than not, probably. But the most tell-tale test you had is the biopsy. Having said that, we are aware that biopsies are not always performed in a thorough manner. Damage to the small bowel villi can be patchy and can be missed unless multiple samples are taken from both the duodenum and the duodenum bulb.

Again, the next diagnostic step would seem to be the trial of a gluten free diet. Give it three or four months anyway. Eating gluten free can be much more challenging than most realize because of the many surprising places gluten turns up in the food supply and because of cross contamination. Here is a primer that should be helpful:

 

Thank you for the help! 

[trents]

You're welcome! Keep us posted.

[knitty kitty]

@May2000,

Have you been on antibiotics, PPI's, or antidepressants?  Any prescription medications?

We've had several new members with only positive DGP IgG.  Some medications suppress the immune system.  Curious if there's a connection.

Edited August 10, 2023 by knitty kitty
Typo

[May2000]

1 minute ago, knitty kitty said:

@May2000,

Have you been on antibiotics, PPI's, or antidepressants?  Any prescription medications?

We've had several new members with only positive IgG.  Some medications suppress the immune system.  Curious if there's a connection.

No to everything, but I was on an acid reducer occasionally over the last few years. That said, these numbers have steadily climbed since 2017. Due to how inconsistent the PPI was- I don’t think there is a correlation. 

[knitty kitty]

Do you have diabetes or anemia?

[May2000]

3 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

Do you have diabetes or anemia?

Neither. 

[knitty kitty]

Curiouser and curiouser...

Thanks for answering.

How frequently did you take the PPI's?  

Were you taking them around the time of previous tests?

Edited August 10, 2023 by knitty kitty
Typo

[May2000]

8 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

Curiouser and curiouser...

Thanks for answering.

How frequently did you take the PPI's?  

Were you taking them around the time of previous tests?

It’s possible that I was in 2017, but I don’t believe I was around the time this year. Can you explain to me the correlation between the PPI and the high levels? Also, I found an article via Google on Pub Med with the title, “Anti-gliadin antibodies in non-celiac gluten sensitivity” which is interesting. 

[knitty kitty]

The tTg IgA is usually the go-to test for Celiac Disease.  Some members have negative tTg IgA but positive DGP IgG.  

Some medications have been found to suppress the immune system, affecting the production of tTg IgA.  

Labs use different scales, so you would need to give the parameters of the test results (what is considered normal, what's high or low). 

There are doctors that believe that NCGS is a precursor of Celiac Disease, as though they caught people before there was blatant intestinal damage seen in more severe CeD.  

Have you had a genetic test?

[May2000]

8 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

The tTg IgA is usually the go-to test for Celiac Disease.  Some members have negative tTg IgA but positive DGP IgG.  

Some medications have been found to suppress the immune system, affecting the production of tTg IgA.  

Labs use different scales, so you would need to give the parameters of the test results (what is considered normal, what's high or low). 

There are doctors that believe that NCGS is a precursor of Celiac Disease, as though they caught people before there was blatant intestinal damage seen in more severe CeD.  

Have you had a genetic test?

Ok, thank you for that. These symptoms have been ongoing for years. I’ve had multiple tests for celiac repeated for years and more than one biopsy and it’s always negative. Yet, that one test keeps ticking up and along with the numbers ticking up, the symptoms have increased. Perhaps NCGS is the correct diagnosis. 

[knitty kitty]

Nutritional deficiencies can develop over years even if gluten free.  

Genetic testing would allow you to tell if you have any Celiac genes.  If not, you would know to look for something else.

[May2000]

2 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Nutritional deficiencies can develop over years even if gluten free.  

Genetic testing would allow you to tell if you have any Celiac genes.  If not, you would know to look for something else.

I did do genetic testing, but I don’t recall seeing anything related to celiac. Ironically I did it due to nutritional deficiencies, but they said I have sluggish DNA which I had never heard of. And I have dedicated enough time to figure out what it even means. 

[trents]

1 hour ago, May2000 said:

I did do genetic testing, but I don’t recall seeing anything related to celiac. Ironically I did it due to nutritional deficiencies, but they said I have sluggish DNA which I had never heard of. And I have dedicated enough time to figure out what it even means. 

You can have genetic testing done that specifically targets potential genes. If a doctor is not willing to order it, there are third party provided home test kits available for about $200 U.S.

[knitty kitty]

Sluggish DNA?  

Hmmm, sluggish DNA makes me think of mitochondria because they are busy replicating DNA.  Mitochondria don't work well when there's a deficiency in Thiamine Vitamin B 1.  Without sufficient thiamine, the mitochondria can become dysfunctional.  

A person can roll along with subclinical vitamin deficiencies.  Symptoms can wax and wane mysteriously depending on the amount of vitamins they get from their diet.  But a shift in diet or stress can tip the balance into outright deficiencies.  

Thiamine is the B vitamin that can become depleted in as little as three days.  Thiamine deficiency symptoms can be localized in the digestive system, called Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  

I had Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  The symptoms are very similar to Celiac Disease.  Bloating, digestive problems, etc.  I knew I was not getting gluten in my diet, and finally realized, as my symptoms worsened, that it was Thiamine deficiency.  

Here's an article from NIH...

Gastrointestinal beriberi: a forme fruste of Wernicke’s encephalopathy?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6040496/

And another.... (alcohol prevents the absorption of nutrients similar to CeD)...

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

And...see if your symptoms are similar...

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

 

Since Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses, I tried Thiamine supplementation at high doses and had health improvements within the hour.  I was very deficient.  Most people get improvement within days.  Several months of supplementing with high dose Thiamine found me feeling better than I had for years.  It takes about that long to start replacing nonfunctional mitochondria.

Of course, it's usual to have deficiencies across the board, so I was taking a B Complex supplement, too, since the eight B vitamins all need each other to work properly.  Thiamine needs magnesium to make important enzymes, so I took magnesium glycinate.  I took Thiamine Hydrochloride, and Benfotiamine (another form of thiamine that helps heal the digestive system).

My doctors had been totally clueless.  They had said I was just making stuff up because they couldn't find anything wrong.  I'd had nutrition and microbiology classes at university, and, by Grace, the pieces of the puzzle began to fit together.

High dose Thiamine is worth a try, if only to rule it out. 

[Wheatwacked]

80% of the mitochondrial membrane is Choline. No choline, no new mitochondria, less health.  Less than 10% of us eat enough choline containing foods (primary source liver, eggs, beefsteak).  Choline is needed to digest fats (floating, off color, smelly poop). It makes up most of the bile salts, reduces homocysteine (cardiovascular inflammation), makes up acetlycholine (brain fog).

Add choline to the B's and D.