Help plz with results. celiac?

[Layu]

(Sorry for my bad english)
Hello, i am 20 y.o. I l had chronic diarrhea for two years now. It appears once every 14 days. And it repeats itself every time. She is very strong. The last time I couldn’t even eat food that day, I felt sick and immediately ran to the toilet. 
I took serological tests for celiac disease.
My Gliadin g is so high - 100 U/ml ( norm is 0-12)
But my other results are good
tTg iga igg - good
Ema Igg Iga - good
Immunoglobulin A - good (1,02) norm is ( 0.61 - 3.48).
Calprotectin - good
When I took medicine with Bifidobacterium longumlongum, strain 35624 for three months, I did not have diarrhea for 6 months. I've been eating gluten this whole time
But then it all started again.
I've tried the gluten-free diet a couple of times.  I sometimes eat gluten when I'm on a diet. And I didn't have diarrhea this time. 
I've probably been to 10 doctors. Everyone says it's not celiac disease. But what is it?

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, @Layu!

You say your "Gliadin g" is high high at 100 U/ml. This test terminology is unfamiliar to me but looking at the other test results you list and using the process of elimination I am guessing this test is what we know as "DGP-IGG". Can you confirm this? Here is an article that lists all the possible antibody tests that can be run for celiac disease. Perhaps you can pick it out from here: 

If you had been eating a gluten free diet or even severely reduced your gluten intake in the weeks leading up to the test blood draw it would likely create false negative test results, especially in the IGA sector. The one positive test result you do have could indicate you do have celiac disease but it could also indicate you have NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) which shares many of the same symptoms with celiac disease and is 10x more common. NCGS does not damage the villous lining of the small bowel so there is no test for it at this time. Celiac disease must first be ruled out.

Another possibility is that you are IGA deficient, which would push your IGA scores down toward the negative range. A "total IGA" test should always be run with other IGA celiac antibody tests in order to check for this but apparently it was not in your case.

[Layu]

6 hours ago, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, @Layu!

You say your "Gliadin g" is high high at 100 U/ml. This test terminology is unfamiliar to me but looking at the other test results you list and using the process of elimination I am guessing this test is what we know as "DGP-IGG". Can you confirm this? Here is an article that lists all the possible antibody tests that can be run for celiac disease. Perhaps you can pick it out from here: 

If you had been eating a gluten free diet or even severely reduced your gluten intake in the weeks leading up to the test blood draw it would likely create false negative test results, especially in the IGA sector. The one positive test result you do have could indicate you do have celiac disease but it could also indicate you have NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) which shares many of the same symptoms with celiac disease and is 10x more common. NCGS does not damage the villous lining of the small bowel so there is no test for it at this time. Celiac disease must first be ruled out.

Another possibility is that you are IGA deficient, which would push your IGA scores down toward the negative range. A "total IGA" test should always be run with other IGA celiac antibody tests in order to check for this but apparently it was not in your case.

Based on the article its DGP IGG. 

However, in my lab DGP IGG there is a separate analysis, different, not Gliadin G.

What about my total IGA - normal (1,02). Norm is 0,60-3.48

[Layu]

6 hours ago, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, @Layu!

You say your "Gliadin g" is high high at 100 U/ml. This test terminology is unfamiliar to me but looking at the other test results you list and using the process of elimination I am guessing this test is what we know as "DGP-IGG". Can you confirm this? Here is an article that lists all the possible antibody tests that can be run for celiac disease. Perhaps you can pick it out from here: 

If you had been eating a gluten free diet or even severely reduced your gluten intake in the weeks leading up to the test blood draw it would likely create false negative test results, especially in the IGA sector. The one positive test result you do have could indicate you do have celiac disease but it could also indicate you have NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) which shares many of the same symptoms with celiac disease and is 10x more common. NCGS does not damage the villous lining of the small bowel so there is no test for it at this time. Celiac disease must first be ruled out.

Another possibility is that you are IGA deficient, which would push your IGA scores down toward the negative range. A "total IGA" test should always be run with other IGA celiac antibody tests in order to check for this but apparently it was not in your case.

I make all tests without gluten diet. I know about it

[trents]

Your total IGA is normal. Total IGA is not a test for celiac disease as such. The total IGA score simply establishes whether or not you are IGA deficient. If people are IGA deficient, then the individual IGA antibody tests cannot be trusted as being accurate because they will likely yield artificially low scores.

[Layu]

9 hours ago, trents said:

Your total IGA is normal. Total IGA is not a test for celiac disease as such. The total IGA score simply establishes whether or not you are IGA deficient. If people are IGA deficient, then the individual IGA antibody tests cannot be trusted as being accurate because they will likely yield artificially low scores.

And what about my story? It looks like celiac? Doctors say that with celiac disease, diarrhea would occur more often than once every 14 days and that taking probiotics would not stop it for such a long period

[Wheatwacked]

11 hours ago, Layu said:

However, in my lab DGP IGG there is a separate analysis, different, not Gliadin G.

Hi Layu,

Could you copy the lab results, exactly as they appear.  Test, your results and the range the lab uses?

On 9/7/2024 at 4:13 AM, Layu said:

I've tried the gluten-free diet a couple of times.

Did the gluten free diet help?

It could be that the probiotic helped limit the damage the gluten was doing.  It may have lowered your test results, especially if your tests were taken during a period when you were not eating gluten.  Foods like fermented pickles and sauerkraut (lactobacillus) might also help.  

Quote

 

Taking a probiotic essentially compounds the progress a celiac disease patient (or NCGS patient) makes by cutting gluten. That’s because it adds even more beneficial bacteria, which can help reduce inflammation and improve digestion and nutrient absorption.

A 2020 systematic review and meta-analysis of six randomized controlled trials involving more than 5,000 participants with celiac disease showed that probiotics improved GI symptoms by an average of around 29%  Probiotics Improve Symptoms of Celiac Disease and NCGS

 

 

[Layu]

14 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

Hi Layu,

Could you copy the lab results, exactly as they appear.  Test, your results and the range the lab uses?

Did the gluten free diet help?

It could be that the probiotic helped limit the damage the gluten was doing.  It may have lowered your test results, especially if your tests were taken during a period when you were not eating gluten.  Foods like fermented pickles and sauerkraut (lactobacillus) might also help.  

 

Hi Wheatwacked, 

I maked tests when i eat gluten every day and don't take probiotiks. 
Calprotectin 27 ( norm is 0 - 50)
tTG IGA - 0.41 ( norm is <20) 
total IGA - normal (1,02). Norm is 0,60-3.48
EMA IGG  and EMA IGA - <1:10 (it was written that such a result excludes celiac disease by 98%) 
Anti Gliadin G ( Alpha gliadin G) - 100 U/ml (norm is 0-12).
I can also say that i have often mucus in stool. I forgot to say that. 

Gluten free diet helps me, right, but i can eat sometimes bread and other. Not every day. And i havent diarrhea. 

[Wheatwacked]

Elevated levels of Anti-Gliadin IgG might mean that your body is reacting to gluten. This can happen when your immune system is more sensitive to gluten, which could be a sign of non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS).  In the US 10% of the population are diagnosed NCGS while only 1% are diagnosed Celiac Disease. 

"5 of 26 patients (20%) with biopsy-proven celiac disease during our specified period had a positive AGA IgA or IgG and a negative tTG." Anti-Gliadin Antibodies Identify Celiac Patients Overlooked by Tissue Transglutaminase Antibodies

In my non medical opinion, while your tests don't completely rule out Celiac disease it does indicate a high chance of Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity.  A biopsy would be required to rule out Celiac Disease.  Many have posted that they test negative for blood test, but were eventually confirmed to have Celiac by a biopsy, some took 10 years to finally be diagnosed. The tTG-IgA test has a sensitivity of 78% to 100% and the EMA-IgA test has a sensitivity of 86% to 100%.  So there is room for the doctors to be wrong.  Since you do better on gluten free diet, it is likely one of the two.  Both require gluten free diet for your health.

[Layu]

1 hour ago, Wheatwacked said:

Elevated levels of Anti-Gliadin IgG might mean that your body is reacting to gluten. This can happen when your immune system is more sensitive to gluten, which could be a sign of non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS).  In the US 10% of the population are diagnosed NCGS while only 1% are diagnosed Celiac Disease. 

"5 of 26 patients (20%) with biopsy-proven celiac disease during our specified period had a positive AGA IgA or IgG and a negative tTG." Anti-Gliadin Antibodies Identify Celiac Patients Overlooked by Tissue Transglutaminase Antibodies

In my non medical opinion, while your tests don't completely rule out Celiac disease it does indicate a high chance of Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity.  A biopsy would be required to rule out Celiac Disease.  Many have posted that they test negative for blood test, but were eventually confirmed to have Celiac by a biopsy, some took 10 years to finally be diagnosed. The tTG-IgA test has a sensitivity of 78% to 100% and the EMA-IgA test has a sensitivity of 86% to 100%.  So there is room for the doctors to be wrong.  Since you do better on gluten free diet, it is likely one of the two.  Both require gluten free diet for your health.

The doctor said that Anti Gliadin IGG can be elevated in IBS or in atopic dermatitis, which I have had since childhood, appears every winter. What do you think about it? 

[Wheatwacked]

Yes, does not matter.  Anti-gliadin IgG is an antibody that detects the body's reaction to gluten.  You can have other things going on, but bottom line is you have an abnormal immune system reaction to gluten.   Remove it from your life.  Some have withdrawal for up to 10  days, and thats depressing.  It is due to the strong effect of gluten on the opiod receptors.  It is very addictive.  In fact, most of the western world is addicted to it.  Many of your symptoms will improve.  But gluten sensitivity causes vitamin and mineral deficiency through diet choices and in celiac desease through malabsorption.  These deficiencies have symptoms.  

You are very likely deficient in vitamin D.  Atopic dermatitis results from an overactive immune system that causes the skin barrier to become dry and itchy.  Vitamin D controls the immune system.  In the winter our vitamin D is lowest unless taking extra.   Have they tested you for vitamin D?  In the US, Canada, Ireland, UK over 40% of the adult population is deficient.

[GardeningForHealth]

As Wheatwacked said, you might have Celiac Disease. You need an endoscopy to check your intestine for damage. If you have damage, then you have Celiac Disease.

But even if you do not have Celiac Disease, you should remove gluten from your diet forever, because of the positive Anti-gliadin IgG test result. This is because your immune system is strongly activated when you eat gluten.

[Layu]

1 hour ago, GardeningForHealth said:

As Wheatwacked said, you might have Celiac Disease. You need an endoscopy to check your intestine for damage. If you have damage, then you have Celiac Disease.

But even if you do not have Celiac Disease, you should remove gluten from your diet forever, because of the positive Anti-gliadin IgG test result. This is because your immune system is strongly activated when you eat gluten.

But then why do all the doctors I've visited deny having celiac disease? They tell me it's either ibs or microscopic colitis. They tell me there is no celiac disease, because I have good calprotectin and diarrhea only once every 14 days. And probiotics help me.

[Layu]

21 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

Yes, does not matter.  Anti-gliadin IgG is an antibody that detects the body's reaction to gluten.  You can have other things going on, but bottom line is you have an abnormal immune system reaction to gluten.   Remove it from your life.  Some have withdrawal for up to 10  days, and thats depressing.  It is due to the strong effect of gluten on the opiod receptors.  It is very addictive.  In fact, most of the western world is addicted to it.  Many of your symptoms will improve.  But gluten sensitivity causes vitamin and mineral deficiency through diet choices and in celiac desease through malabsorption.  These deficiencies have symptoms.  

You are very likely deficient in vitamin D.  Atopic dermatitis results from an overactive immune system that causes the skin barrier to become dry and itchy.  Vitamin D controls the immune system.  In the winter our vitamin D is lowest unless taking extra.   Have they tested you for vitamin D?  In the US, Canada, Ireland, UK over 40% of the adult population is deficient.

Yes, I previously had a vitamin D deficiency. When I replenished it, the manifestations of atopic dermatitis became less obvious.

In general, in my laboratory it is written that antigliadin increases not only in celiac disease, but also in urticaria, cirrhosis, atopic dermatitis, and even in healthy people. You know, the strangest thing is that no one in my family had any diseases at all, except for atopic dermatitis.

[Layu]

21 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

Yes, does not matter.  Anti-gliadin IgG is an antibody that detects the body's reaction to gluten.  You can have other things going on, but bottom line is you have an abnormal immune system reaction to gluten.   Remove it from your life.  Some have withdrawal for up to 10  days, and thats depressing.  It is due to the strong effect of gluten on the opiod receptors.  It is very addictive.  In fact, most of the western world is addicted to it.  Many of your symptoms will improve.  But gluten sensitivity causes vitamin and mineral deficiency through diet choices and in celiac desease through malabsorption.  These deficiencies have symptoms.  

You are very likely deficient in vitamin D.  Atopic dermatitis results from an overactive immune system that causes the skin barrier to become dry and itchy.  Vitamin D controls the immune system.  In the winter our vitamin D is lowest unless taking extra.   Have they tested you for vitamin D?  In the US, Canada, Ireland, UK over 40% of the adult population is deficient.

Sorry, i maked mistake. In my lab anti gliadin increases not only in celiac disease, but also in ibs, ncgs, atopic dermatitis, and even in healthy people.

[trents]

As others have said, the next logical step is to have an endoscopy done with biopsy of the small bowel lining to check for the damage that would be caused by celiac disease. But you would need to be eating generous amounts of gluten ahead of time for at least two weeks for it to be a valid test. An amount of gluten equivalent to 4-6 slices of bread daily.

[Layu]

2 minutes ago, trents said:

As others have said, the next logical step is to have an endoscopy done with biopsy of the small bowel lining to check for the damage that would be caused by celiac disease. But you would need to be eating generous amounts of gluten ahead of time for at least two weeks for it to be a valid test. An amount of gluten equivalent to 4-6 slices of bread daily.

Yes, I know, it is strange that I was not prescribed an endoscopy, arguing that my Calprotectin is very good and diarrhea is not peculiar to celiac disease, very rare for it. 

[trents]

Can you request an endoscopy with biopsy? Do you have any input into your medical care or do you live in a place where the healthcare system is very inflexible?

[GardeningForHealth]

Regarding diarrhea, this is a classical presentation of Celiac Disease. Not all people with Celiac will have this. There is a condition known as "silent celiac" in which the person has Celiac, but they do not notice any symptoms. Or a person with Celiac may only notice neurological signs of Celiac but not notice any gastrointestinal discomfort.

[Wheatwacked]

38 minutes ago, Layu said:

In general, in my laboratory it is written that antigliadin increases not only in celiac disease, but also in urticaria, cirrhosis, atopic dermatitis, and even in healthy people.

     Chronic urticaria: A cutaneous manifestation of celiac disease  The immunoglobulin G autoantibody binds to the immunoglobulin E receptor and causes mast cell degranulation resulting in urticaria.  

     Antigliadin antibody classes in chronic liver disease  In conclusion, these results indicate that AGA (either IgG and IgA) can be present at low titre in chronic liver disease and their presence may be secondary to the liver damage per sè. High titres of AGA in chronic liver disease may suggest a real association with coeliac disease.

     Serum IgG antibodies to gliadin and other dietary antigens in adults with atopic eczema  30·4% of atopic eczema patients had detectable IgG antibodies reactive with gliadin in contrast to 6·5% of the controls. These findings suggest that antigen absorption from the gut may play a role in the aetiopathogencsis of atopic eczema, and lend some support for the use of elimination diets in this condition.

There are many, myself included, who were considered healthy who had symptoms that were considered normal and those symptoms disappeared with gluten free diet or have no symptoms. There is a real thing called Silent Celiac.

Just a guess here, but I think your might still have some of those probiotics still living in your gut and they are keeping your diarrhea in check but sometimes get overwhelmed.

So, having another diagnosis does not mean high antiglobulin G is irrelevant.   I mentioned previously a study that showed that 20% of a group of people with normal EMA but high AGA who would not have been biopsied because of the belief the EMA is a definitive not celiac as your doctors believe, were diagnosed Celiac Disease by biopsy.

I don't know if Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity is recognized by you medical system.  It became a real disease in the US in 1980.  Curiously only ten years after Norman Borlaug recieved the Nobel Prize for creating the modern wheat of the Green Revolution.

1 hour ago, Layu said:

diarrhea is not peculiar to celiac disease

Classic arbitrary dismissal of your illness.  In the meantime do they have an answer of what is causing it?  Many of us were dismissed similarly, It is in your head, psycological, caused by stress, and rolled eyes.

Wheat has become synonomous with Bread: The Staff of Life and so is sacrosant.  Also everyone is addicted to it.

Check out this list of symptoms

       

 

[Layu]

10 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

     Chronic urticaria: A cutaneous manifestation of celiac disease  The immunoglobulin G autoantibody binds to the immunoglobulin E receptor and causes mast cell degranulation resulting in urticaria.  

     Antigliadin antibody classes in chronic liver disease  In conclusion, these results indicate that AGA (either IgG and IgA) can be present at low titre in chronic liver disease and their presence may be secondary to the liver damage per sè. High titres of AGA in chronic liver disease may suggest a real association with coeliac disease.

     Serum IgG antibodies to gliadin and other dietary antigens in adults with atopic eczema  30·4% of atopic eczema patients had detectable IgG antibodies reactive with gliadin in contrast to 6·5% of the controls. These findings suggest that antigen absorption from the gut may play a role in the aetiopathogencsis of atopic eczema, and lend some support for the use of elimination diets in this condition.

There are many, myself included, who were considered healthy who had symptoms that were considered normal and those symptoms disappeared with gluten free diet or have no symptoms. There is a real thing called Silent Celiac.

Just a guess here, but I think your might still have some of those probiotics still living in your gut and they are keeping your diarrhea in check but sometimes get overwhelmed.

So, having another diagnosis does not mean high antiglobulin G is irrelevant.   I mentioned previously a study that showed that 20% of a group of people with normal EMA but high AGA who would not have been biopsied because of the belief the EMA is a definitive not celiac as your doctors believe, were diagnosed Celiac Disease by biopsy.

I don't know if Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity is recognized by you medical system.  It became a real disease in the US in 1980.  Curiously only ten years after Norman Borlaug recieved the Nobel Prize for creating the modern wheat of the Green Revolution.

Classic arbitrary dismissal of your illness.  In the meantime do they have an answer of what is causing it?  Many of us were dismissed similarly, It is in your head, psycological, caused by stress, and rolled eyes.

Wheat has become synonomous with Bread: The Staff of Life and so is sacrosant.  Also everyone is addicted to it.

Check out this list of symptoms

       

 

So the increase in my antibodies may be related to atopic eczema, not celiac disease?
By the way, sometimes there is a connection with stress. After I took probiotics, I didn't have diarrhea for six months and it started after stress

[Wheatwacked]

No, the increase in antibodies is due to gluten, but the excema may be caused on of the symptoms of Celiac. Plus low vitamin D.  Could be one of the symptoms of gluten intolerance not usually recognized as a gluten problem.

From the article above What Are the Symptoms of Celiac Disease?

Conditions Associated with Celiac Disease:

• Skin Problems—acne, eczema, dermatitis herpetiformis, dry skin 

If you are done testing the probiotic would be a good idea again since they help.  The high carb, inflammatory western diet tends to kill off the good guys.

[Layu]

3 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

No, the increase in antibodies is due to gluten, but the excema may be caused on of the symptoms of Celiac. Plus low vitamin D.  Could be one of the symptoms of gluten intolerance not usually recognized as a gluten problem.

From the article above What Are the Symptoms of Celiac Disease?

Conditions Associated with Celiac Disease:

• Skin Problems—acne, eczema, dermatitis herpetiformis, dry skin 

If you are done testing the probiotic would be a good idea again since they help.  The high carb, inflammatory western diet tends to kill off the good guys.

Thank you, I understand, I will go for an endoscopy in the near future. I hope that this is ncgs, not celiac disease, and it will pass.

[trents]

Both NCGS and Celiac Disease are life-long medical conditions. Neither will "pass". Furthermore, some experts in the field believe NCGS can be a precursor to the development of celiac disease.

[Layu]

Continuation of the post. I went to the doctor again, he looked at my tests, said there were two options: IBS, celiac disease. He said that he would prescribe medicine with butyric acid and inulin, if there was no diarrhea, it meant that it was not celiac disease. If there is diarrhea, he will send you for a endoscopy. t's been almost a month, I eat gluten every day and I don't have diarrhea. about elevated antibodies to gliadin G - he said that they are not indicative and can be both in healthy people and in atopic dermatitis, ibs, etc. I read that if there was celiac disease, then this medicine would not be able to stop diarrhea.