gfp

I think school is going to be very challenging for us this year. My 6 yr old can't have gluten, casein, eggs, or dye. That's just about everything!! He is high functioning autistic, and hates the diet, so every opportunity he sees, he tries to sneak "bad" food. Second day of school the teacher said he took candy off of her desk. Third day of school he brought candy home in his backpak. I talked to the principle who said he would tell the lunch people to watch him (they have 2 adults in the cafeteria for 4 classrooms of kids.) Well, Friday I took him his lunch, and nobody was watching him. The kids were sitting so close together that all of their food was right in front of him. He was fixated on the cake and almost drooling. Last year he was pretty good about the diet. He would say "can I have that?" Now he is just angry and defiant about it all. He refuses to understand that the food will make him sick. I don't know how to make the school understand that they have to keep him away from the food. They had 3 projects in the classroom last week that involved making things with food. They also have their snacks on the playground, so that is another opportunity for him to sneak food from the other kids. They will probably decide that they just need to pull him out of the classroom during the food projects and probably make him eat lunch by himself in a seperate room. What about recess? No recess? This will be great for developing his social skills!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds ideal perhaps from his perspective.

I spent most of my time at school at 5-10 trying to get made to stand by myself in the corridor....especially in classes hwere the teacher made me sit next to someone.

Perhaps he's hoping not to be forced to have to eat with other kids????

Initially I would do two pots of pasta, but that just got wasteful and he likes the gluten-free pasta, so I just stick with that.

I used to do this for reasons of economy and ... well not forcing my food on visitors etc.

Then one day I cooked the two pasta's in different pots with different spoons and lo and behold I serve myself the gluten-free pasta shells and find a pasta spiral in.....

Now given I'm the sort of person who find's his keys i the fridge and such I guess it was absent mindnedness but I really believed I couldn't have done this....I was sure I was being careful... ??

my husband eats gluten foods... if he wants something with gluten in it, he cooks it himself. I won't cook with it at all. I do most of the cooking but also it's not MY job...

That is how I feel.... I cook because I enjoy it and dare i say Im good at it... but I'm not being paid to do it.

Now I'm not a big fan of prawns .... I'm not rabidly anti prawn or allergic I just don't rate them...

but the other day I saw some nice fresh tiger prawns and bought themfor my gluten-free...

I marinaded them for 6-8 hours then cooked them in the marinade..(for which I bought fresh lemongrass and ginger actually whipped some leaves off a lime tree {couldn't find fresh ones to buy}) then peeled them down to the tail removed the digestive tract with a knife and made a gluten-free tempura batter from seasoned buckwheat.... cooked them individually so that only the tiny tail stuck out while serving them with a saffron flavoured coconut rice.

Meanwhile I made myself a quick teriyaki marinade sliced up some beef and marinaded the slices..

So I am quite happy to spend some effort on cooking and even make 2 dishes but Im not willing to take the risk of CC or mistakes on using gluten.

Gfp, that sounds SOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD....!!!! I never would have thought of using dessert wine. I'm going to have to try that.

Nancy

The other thing I do is use almond flour in the gluten-free flour mix.

You can use the end of the wine you used as a base for a glaze as well.

I understand it, but I don't get it either.

Nope its very weird....

Living in a place where more than one language is spoken, a person can generally manage to do everything he needs to do while limiting himself to contacts who speak his own language. Once he has done this, it is no longer necessarily required to attempt to communicate with speakers of any other language. Attempting to communicate is where most language learning takes place. If no attempt is made, and the person avoids situations where it might be necessary, then it is very possible to avoid learning a language that is spoken in your area.

I completely agree.... I know lots of anglophones in Paris who don't speak French... I had one friend who would call me up from KFC on his and say things like "Will you tell this guy....." then pass the phone over?????

(actually it usually included the words dumb and ****)

Yeah sure.. whho's the dumb **** ... they guy serving you who speaks French and probably a mother tongue or two as well or you who are in France expected some guy on mimimum wage to learn English????

There are lots of foreigners who are permanent residents of the United States who do not speak enough English to function outside of their home and circle of friends. Keep in mind that first exposure to a language can be traumatic, and learning at that point is difficult and slow. They give up, believing it is not possible, and once you believe that, it won't happen. Often older immigrants end up dependent on their children for contact with the English-speaking majority. I run into families like this in the school system all the time. The parent speaks insufficient English to communicate, and the teenage child serves as interpreter.

Yes this is also true but I am speaking about "tribes" who have lived side by side for over 2000 years!

The same situation applies .. they can buy whatever they need in their chosen language but its not even like they are in different alphabets...

You go to a zoo and the animals are labelled in Dutch and French .... but it amazes me that someone allergic to say bee's wouldn't even know that word in the other language! It has to take a special effort....

For example I have never learned any Spanish at all ... I've been to spain twice (and most of Latin America) but my Spanish vocabulary is probably over 2000 words. I didn't choose this... but they are written on European brand packaging...you can't help reading them unless you really try! I have never picked up A spanish dictionary ... I just read street signs.. shop signs etc.

Ive been to Holland a few times .... and I can read and understand spoken Dutch (more Northern dialects because I understand Danish because I speak Norwegian) but that is about it.. there is no need to speak Dutch in most of Holland because most Dutch people speak near perfect English....

Yet people who have lived there whole lives in "bilingual" (which is a joke) Bruxelles/Stad Brussel is two towns in one. They have different banks, shops and culture and yet they are not 1st or second generation immigrants but families whom have lived in the area for 1000 years and more....

According to a 2006 survey 51% of the city that responded claim to be bilingual ... this research itself fundamentally flawed since the questionairre was available in either language and English but not mixed....but the results are only published in French???? (a seperate Dutch speaking uni translated the findings....isn't that weird a study on bilingualism in an officially bilingual city only published in 1 language)

The same can be true for Finns.

You cannot graduate from university in Finland without passing Swedish...and yet I know few ethnic Finns who will speak Swedish unless they are under extrme duress.

I know Finns who would rather watch a Swedish person be hit by a car than shout out a warning in Swedish! (this is there own words)

Similarly I was at an exhibition in Dutch speaking Antwerp... I don't expect them to speak French to me but I was there at the request of the person who was making the exhibit...

The guy "explained" to me in Dutch i wasn't allowed to take photo's... but refused to speak French at all. Everytime I answered him in French he just told me to speak Dutch... (look at my photo) and completely refused to listen to my explanation in French ... that I was here at the request of the exhibitor.

Now... I could perhaps think this guy didn't speak French apart from I asked the exhibitor... and heard the guy speaking French with his wife and it is his natural language.

Later on I watched as some guy asked him where the toilet was in Dutch... and guess what.. he refused to understand the question.... refused to admit he spoke Dutch altogether!

So my understanding is he only speaks Dutch to tell people what he wants but will not help someone unless they speak French.

It was after this we went back to Bruxelles... and I started watching people....

Its truly amazing that if 50% profess to be bilingual just how much they resent the "others".

You start to see all sorts of people doing mean things... (if you presume 50% actually are bilingual) refusal to serve someone in a shop etc., certainly refusal to help someone with directions...

My girlfriends French is flawless, only a linguistics professor would know its not her native tongue and we soon learned the best way to get cooperation was for me to do all the talking. The French would help me in my accented French but the Dutch would just clam up if she asked in perfect Parisien... wheras I could then switch to English.... if she switched to English they had already judged her as French and be as unhelpful as possible.

Defacement of public signs is common... vandals will blank out half a sign....but people will just be less helpfull.

Also my French is good enough to spot a bilingual speaker immediately even with a belgian accent and nowhere 50% of the Dutch speakers had acceptable French... but well over 50% of them had excellent English.. way way better than their French. I somehow find the questionairre must have been rather biassed.

Hi.

I'm glad that you think that this is a family disease. You are 100% correct. I am the kind of mom, with two growing boys, ages 11 and 14, who hasn't had the heart to make them 100% gluten free. I also have a two year old daughter, who I allow only certain gluten filled items. I'm glad yo hear that there are no more wooden spoons, though. Like sponges, they retain all kinds of things.

Vicki

Gluten free 11 years

Vicki....

A lot of my "harshness" is perhaps incredbiity that JennFog is cooking things for her husband he can't be bothered to go and shop and cook himself?

I find this in itself bizarre.

Sometimes my girlfriend will ask me to cook something time consuming (not even non gluten-free) and I will just tell her to cook it herself... sure I do 90% of the cooking but its not my job! Quite often I will make something special she likes... but of she ever wants something that takes more than 24 hours she is quite able to go out and buy the ingredients and cook herself whatever so long as its gluten-free.

Sometimes she does and I still end up helping because she is quite sensitive to cutting onions... and i am a lot more able with a knife. (An onion takes less than 10 seconds to skin and dice )

I am the kind of mom, with two growing boys, ages 11 and 14, who hasn't had the heart to make them 100% gluten free.

But even if you cook 100% gluten-free at home they can still eat outside?

As I said earlier.... I don't know anyone who is 100% gluten-free... I don't believe its possible unless you cook everything at home from ingredients that cannot possibly be CC'd.

However: Just because you don't react outwardly doesn't mean you are not damaging yourself.

More importantly unless you have ever been 100% gluten-free then I think it is possible that you simply fail to notice some of the symptoms.

Most of the people who go 100% gluten-free actually experience relief from symptoms they never realised they had.

Equally a large proportion of these people then realise that even the slightest CC brings back these symptoms.

I asked if you believe the medical evidence for neurological symptoms and depression but you didn't answer.

The reason I asked this is because these symptoms seem far more sensitive than D.

For a long time I had a list of otherwise harmless things ranging from specific brands of asprin to tortilla chips which made me ill. When the new labelling laws came into effect the asprin I had foiund made me ill now says "contains gluten" ... the specific brand of tortilla chips says "may contain traces of gluten" .... indeed this list is well over 100 items long...

The point is when I was gluten-free-lite I didn't notice these .. it was only after going 100% gluten-free that I started to find mysterious CC and glutening like symptoms.

Now I had the same problem with my mother: she read the literature from CUK (since she lives there) followed the advice of the dietician (to only eat items marked gluten-free which in the UK means low gluten) and continued giving her dog biscuits....and a year later she was still ill (although very much better than before)

I took the time to go and live with her for a few weeks.... I put on a lab mask and disposable lab coveralls and we cleaned everything out.... all her utensils which were not stainless were put in the garage etc. and I thorgoughly cleaned the dishwasher, vacuum etc.

Then I cooked gluten-free pasta and added a very strong dye... (alzarin) since its easy to make at home and illustrated where the gluten went. (and also easy to get rid of afterwards)

Even better would have been a flourescent tracer.... because this would show that as she vacuumed the dog biscuits up gluten comes out into the air and remains airborne for along time. (unless you own an anti-allergenic vacuum)

What you call paranoia I call being careful. I have worked in labs with chemicals far less toxic than gluten.

Would you cook with rat poision and then stick things in a dishwasher? Use the same pan?

and yet many rat poisions are not particualrly toxic in small doses. Indeed many people take rat poision (Warfarin) every day of their lives in greater quantities than causes a celiac to produce anti-bodies and still others ingest its natural equivalent (coumarin) unknowingly in lavendar or liquorice and as an additive to tobacco until 1977 (in the US)... indeed it is possible to use coumarin instead of fluorescein as it is a natural flourescent dye.

Well, I accept your apology and forgive you. By the way, gfp thinks he may be an Aspie as well. Which is why he is saying what he does.

I certainly have more than a few traits.... but I prefer non-NT....I don't really know enough about it to think i am or am not.

a bit off topic -- gfp, from what you said it sounded like raisins could be a gluten problem? Or am I misreading?

No i just dislike them and the bords love them....

I used to pick em out and throw them away but when I moved I started sticking them in a bag for the birds and adding nuts and things.

Thank you ALL for your replies. I avoided reading the responses for awhile because I was so embarassed by the state of my condition its painful to acknowledge it.

May I suggest doing a search on this forum.....

You have nothing to be embarassed about anyway but there are people here much much worse than you ...

I would point you to them but that's really not very nice for the people who have the problems!

I think you are all right in that I am still being glutenated. Youre right, I shouldnt be bloated all the time.

I thought I was being really careful. I dont eat out, but clearly I am missing something.

I wonder if I have the discipline to really get to the bottom of it.

Im going to go back to unadulterated meat and vegetables for two weeks. (and red wine and fruit)

There is no other alternative.

Tsomo

You know your answers....

why not bring hubby on board (literally as in here).... I for one could do with a bit of male company!

You are not alone! Indeed its looking increasingly like this is pretty common.

I'd go a bit longer than 2 weeks.... but then gradually add things back one at once.

Hey Rebecca,

The better I get at being a celiac the harder it gets. The more regular gluten you intake the less severe the reactions, however the long term consequences are serious. I've been diagnosed 24 years, im 26 now.

I still get reactions, and as bad as ever. I'm a bit better at coping with them now, but its tough. I've allways adhered to a gluten-free diet, but recently I've been trying that bit harder.

I fear of developing other auto immune disorders. Various studies I've read suggest your right about early detection preventing other disorders. This is tragic and sad. Thing is tho there is no real way for you to find out. Maybe its best to put the ifs and maybes behind you.

I'm trying to perfect my gluten-free lifestyle. To make it possible to be totally gluten-free. I think it can be done, but you gotta make it the focus of your life. Which untill now I couldn't do. I could never admit to myself how much this disorder has made me suffer over the years.

I'm now trying to eliminate all processed foods, and even many foods declaring to be gluten-free. So often the machines used to retail pack the gluten-free products are used on the non gluten-free ones. Cross contamination is the other worry. Trust no one, trust nothing, that you can't be sure is safe to eat. The consequences don't bear thinking about. As you get better at the diet you'll have to stop kissing crumby people, stop eating from kitchens that might be contaminated. 'Back to basics' is my current mantra, fruit, veg, fish n meat. Guaranteed to be safe.

I think you can come through that.....

If you do go really strict for a time period and the gut heals then yep you get D.. and perhaps worse than before but it doesn't set you back to square 1. You get over it and that's it.... the hard part is when your being constantly low-grade glutened.

I'm convinced that "coming down is the hardest part"

When I have messed up on hols and kept it up for 3-4 days its just bad.(I even found that a bt of gluten every so many hours stops you feeling really really bad).. then when I finally stop its crushing.

I just thought of it last night. For breakfast yesterday morning I made nicole a gluten free waffle,But I forgot to use her toaster and used ours and it didn't even click. I feel so bad. If she gets sick I am going to feel even worse.

Celina

Mistakes happen!

lets hope it was OK....

consider taping a huge warning to the non gluten-free toaster.... but better still only use gluten-free waffles...

Oh, I got rid of the dishtowels and only use paper .... need to get new sponges ... ugh.

Nini, is it you who has a bird, or Tiffany? Is there a gluten-free bird food?

My wild birds get a string bag with mixed stuff... like nuts and seeds (and raisins - I pull out of gluten-free muesli) bits of dried fruits and sunflower seeds etc... in the winter I add extra fat... although I'll sometimes give em a fresh olive in summer

I guess they don't need a "complete" diet since they are wild.... but they seem to like it. (except almonds??? I had this bad the moths got into so I have it to the birds and they just left it)

Sponges and stuff:

Yeah.. I mean an easy test is just food coloring try scrubbing off pasta stuck the the bottom of a pan...

(add some food color and let it soak into the burned pasta)

you'll be amazed how hard it is to get off the sponge/scourer completly... I did this with my mom...she threw everything out when she saw.

If you are really organised you might get away with different colored sponges... but honestly sooner or later you will mess up...

Open Original Shared Link

it happens to everyone but if you are the type of celaic who put's their keys in the fridge and glasses in the oven then.....

I would love to make this new recipe however it calls for a lot of granulated sugar. What natural sweeteners could I use in place of granulated sugar?

I would love to hear about your Swedish Torte recipes!

Thanks!

What Ive been doing is boil the fruits in a sweet desert wine and use half the sugar.

Its not so sweet BUT it doesn't need to be because the complexity of the wine gives it a bit of extra ...

You definitely have some thought provoking theories...but I think they are more speculation than proven science. Of course some of my ideas are also speculation. Interesting and fun, though.

Absolutely.... check the thread !

HLA typing has NOTHING to do with screening for Celiac in and of itself. I didn't mean that 98% of Scandinavians carry the genes, but rather 98% of those with Dx Celiac have that HLA (common to northern Europeans) type. That has been studied.

We cannot be sure that there was no Viking invasion there, or no infiltration by groups who may have been exposed to Viking invasion prior and carried the genes in their linage.

As for a mixing of the races, that is true in most cases. However, people in Scandinavia are quite homogeneous, and their gene pool tends to stay much less intermixed. Thus, they get less protective HLA types (Asian) into the mix. One just has to look at the number of people with blond hair and blue/green eyes (recessive) to see that there is not much Asian influence in most people there.

With a very clear exception of Iceland the racial purity of Scandanavia is a lot less than people tend to think.

The most obvious is the Mongol influence in especially Finland but also that both Norway and Sweden practiced "eugenics" from after WWII up to the 70's!!!!

It was an offense to be homeless and the sami were ... largely homeless but they could be freed from custodial sentence by volunteering for sterilisation however the sami still retain distinct DNA but most peculiarly not from the Mongols (although the Norwegains spent a lot of money trying to prove this and hence declare them inferior)

However even within Norway a huge difference exists, blonde-blue eyes are very rare on the West coast and a few places have Spanish influence ...

However the regressive nature of blonde hair and blue eyes is also counterblanced by the fact that these are culturally prize breeding material for some reason.

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I am not sure of the breastfeeding issue. There is some research showing that introducing gluten between 5-6 months carries the lowest risk in those predisposed to Celiac/Type 1. I'm not sure if it's totally an antibody issue or creating immune tolerance, since not all mothers of Celiacs actually have Celiac themselves. I would think those without Celiac and those on the gluten-free diet would not have any significant levels of IgG to be passed on.

Absolutely... the point is the mother may have carried the gene but never developed it.

She could also would not be producing significant IgG if not eating gluten in pregnancy... I forget the exact date when blood enters the placenta .... then she would also not be making IgA if not eating gluten in breastfeeding...

I tend to think it a combination of all of these elements may come into play... but not the whole story.

__________________________________________________________

The last thing is really interesting. I'm a little bit confused, though. Are you saying that those with Autism did not eat the wheat that made their symptoms pronounced because they lived in the country? Or that they were "killed off" by the "wheat eating city dwellers" because of it? Sorry, that last part lost me.

OK... hardly surprising I confused you....

It is not really a matter of country city but of country supporting city.

It always was possible to subsistence farm (and mostly still is) but growing wheat is not efficent for a subsistance farmer unless they supply it to a organised mill and then bakery etc.

First, based on my limited knowledge of history, people with Autism would have been locked up/left to die in most cases, regardless of where they lived, especially if they were not high functioning. That would limit their procreating in itself.

Yes and perhaps.... if we include the whole spectrum of autism related diseases then they would probably have been outside of the community. Reasonably well functioning individuals could be hunters or charcoal burners or many other traditional roles which involved living in the woods by yourself....grazing sheep etc. etc..

Autism is not "normal" or beneficial per se, so that is why the gene pool has naturally stayed "Neurologically Typical". I am aware of the link between Autism and Schizophrenia relating to Celiac. I do agree that gluten can be a neurotoxin, but the person must have the "leaky gut" to let it in.

Let me turn that around... being NT and needing others around you is not particualrly beneficial to living in the woods as a hunter and perhaps only seeing other humans 1-2 a year. Indeed some NT people seem to be unable to cope with being alone... they crave the crowd and the group, go mad and get cabin fever. An autism spectrum person doesn't really want to see other people... someone high functioning like Ursula can cope with them... but as she say's she doesn't miss them if they are not there...

The only thing I am confused about is why you think rural dwellers didn't eat wheat.

Not rural dwellers in a faming community but those outside the community....

Imagine being a hunter in Canada when it was largely unexplored... collecting furs and living in the woods. Would you carry wheat to grind up and make bread when you were surrounded by fresh meat and berries?

6 months of grain to make bread is a lot to carry....

In a community where the "simple kid" could be sent out to watch he goats those NT's would not be so outcast as a bustling city where they would be freaked out the whole time. People touching them and shouting ...

Lastly, I believe we will see a steady increase in Celiac, simply because we can now reproduce. In the past, those with Celiac would waste away and generally die, since no one knew what was causing their symptoms. Of course not procreating will not eradicate Celiac, and having kids will not mean 100% that they will inherit it.

Yes and this is the point.... in nomadic communities they didn't have much wheat... but as man gravitiated towards either cities or feeding cities (for the associated rural community) then there was less chance to opt out.

Cities are about jobs and schedules... meeting people and politics...

Many cultures never developed cities... The Scandanavians still call what anyone else would call village a city but they never did build them.

Houses were made of wood, even when stone was available... defense meant mobility, not walls .. you only need walls to defend an area when you have either the only water source (middle east) or crops.

The same is true for Berbers or pre-hispanic Canary islanders (now extinct) ....and lots of Africa.

The more a civilisation gravitiated towards cities the more it relied on wheat and at the same time excluded those who were just not aware of group mentality.

The hypothesis I am proposing is that autism spectrum diseases was not a "problem" for society until cities...and equally cities demand grain to be fed.

The idea of NT is because NT's are dominant.... and how could they not be in a city based culture...

Even if humans started off with tribes the size of a troop of chimps... perhaps (for the sake of discussion) 50% were NT and 50% non NT but as the NT's banded together ... made towns and then cities the advantge of being part of the group became more appararent.....and those who didn't like the company of others moved further away.

Open Original Shared Link

Seems reasonably thougough. Misses Neuro but otherwise ??

I do agree with you that it's possible if not probable that other genes for Celiac are not accounted for. But, as being a scientist kind of person unfortunately , current science says that the 98% of people with Celiac have a particular HLA type, and that HLA type is usually ONLY found in those with Northern European ancestry.

So far as screening studies through Europe are concerned figures range from 1:133 to about 1:150 based on Rome II criteria. No significant differnce exist in screening tests, only in diagnosis.

However...

Many people who phenotype (look) black or Moroccan, etc. may very well have Northern European ancestry hidden somewhere in their genotype (genetic past). Many places outside of Scandinavia that have high levels of Type 1 diabetes for example, are places of Viking invasion and settlement.

Well the last people the vikings wanted to mess with were anyone else who had a similar command of the sea.

The pirates of the Barbary coast have been there since Cartheginian times and the Cartheginians themselves were probably phoenecian in origin.

The majority of North Africans regardless of what they beleive their heritiage to be are a mix of semetic, Amazigh and negroid.

Y chromosone... is passed exclusively through the paternal line. According to Bosch et al. 2001, "the historical origins of the NW African Y-chromosome pool may be summarized as follows: 75% NW African Upper Paleolithic (H35, H36, and H38), 13% Neolithic (H58 and H71), 4% historic European gene flow (group IX, H50, H52), and 8% recent sub-Saharan African (H22 and H28)". They identify the "75% NW African Upper Paleolithic" component as "an Upper Paleolithic colonization that probably had its origin in Eastern Africa." The North-west African population's 75% Y chromosome genetic contribution from East Africa contrasted with a 78% contribution to the Iberian population from western Asia, suggests that the northern rim of the Mediterranean with the Strait of Gibraltar acted as a strong, albeit incomplete, barrier (Bosch et al, 2001).

The interpretation of the second most frequent "Neolithic" haplotype is debated: Arredi et al. 2004, like Semino et al. 2000 and Bosch et al. 2001, argue that the H71 haplogroup and North African Y-chromosomal diversity indicate a Neolithic-era "demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic-speaking pastoralists from the Middle East", while Nebel et al. 2002 argue that H71 rather reflects "recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era." Bosch et al. also find little genetic distinction between Arabic and Berber-speaking populations in North Africa, which they take to support the interpretation of the Arabization and Islamization of northwestern Africa, starting during the 7th century A.D., as cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement. Cruciani et al. 2004 note that the E-M81 haplogroup on the Y-chromosome correlates closely with Berber populations.

The mtDNA, by contrast, is inherited only from the mother. According to Macaulay et al. 1999, "one-third of Mozabite Berber mtDNAs have a Near Eastern ancestry, probably having arrived in North Africa ∼50,000 years ago, and one-eighth have an origin in sub-Saharan Africa. Europe appears to be the source of many of the remaining sequences, with the rest having arisen either in Europe or in the Near East." [Maca-Meyer et al. 2003] yze the "autochthonous North African lineage U6" in mtDNA, concluding that:

The most probable origin of the proto-U6 lineage was the Near East. Around 30,000 years ago it spread to North Africa where it represents a signature of regional continuity. Subgroup U6a reflects the first African expansion from the Maghrib returning to the east in Paleolithic times. Derivative clade U6a1 signals a posterior movement from East Africa back to the Maghrib and the Near East. This migration coincides with the probable Afroasiatic linguistic expansion.

A genetic study by Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004 argues concerning certain exclusively North African haplotypes that "expansion of this group of lineages took place around 10,500 years ago in North Africa, and spread to neighbouring population", and apparently that a specific Northwestern African haplotype, U6, probably originated in the Near East 30,000 years ago but has not been highly preserved and accounts for 6-8% in southern Moroccan Berbers, 18% in Kabyles and 28% in Mozabites. Rando et al. 1998 (as cited by [1]) "detected female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa to NW Africa" amounting to as much as 21.5% of the mtDNA sequences in a sample of NW African populations; the amount varied from 82% (Touaregs) to 4% (Rifains). This north-south gradient in the sub-Saharan contribution to the gene pool is supported by Esteban et al. Nevertheless, individual Berber communities display a considerably high mtDNA heterogeneity among them. The Kesra of Tunisia, for example, display a much higher proportion of typical sub-Saharan mtDNA haplotypes (49%, including 4.2% of M1 haplogroup) Cherni L, et al.The North African patchy mtDNA landscape has no parallel in other regions of the world.

I cannot comment more on the Moroccan study, I need more info. Were these people genotyped? Which blood tests for Celiac screening were used? How big was the sample?

I consider those with gluten sensitivity, "neurological" Celiac, seizures related to gluten, etc. as Celiacs, because they normally have high antibody levels. Others may have a gluten "allergy" which is an entirely different matter altogether and involves different genetics. Usually anyone who reacts to gluten has a "leaky gut", which may include those who let in whole gluten proteins but have either different genetics that do not code for an autoimmune attack despite the leaky gut, or genetic protection from intestinal damage, possibly from the other parent.

I say that most everyone isn't harmed by gluten is because most people do not have the (known) genes to react to gluten, allow it whole into the body, and/or acquire damage or a reaction to eating it. We also don't know the initial trigger for Celiac. Not everyone with the genes develops it. In identical twins the concordance is 70-80%. Most people do not react or show antibodies to gluten from birth, even with the genes. Something in the environment (virus, bacteria, etc. ) must set it off, like with all autoimmune diseases.

I rather suspect that eventually someone will study pregnant and nursing mothers in this context.

Firstly only IgG is passed into the placenta and only IgA in milk.

What happens if you receive the IgA due to a celaic mother but do not breast feed?

It is becoming apparent that the timing of introduction of gluten to a baby is partially responsible for developing celiac disease. I can hardly imagine receiving the antibodies not having an effect...

The combinations are.... multifold... genetically predisposed vs not mother... and father and then if the mother is does she eat gluten in pregnancy or not... does she eat gluten while lactating?

I say that the problem is with genetics and not wheat itself because all you have to do is look on these boards for confirmation. Many if us have MULTIPLE in-tolerances. No one can say that all of the foods you are intolerant to are "unnatural" or bad, but rather it makes sense to say that a "leaky gut"/defective immune response causes your symptoms. That has a genetic basis. Removing gluten does not cause these intolerances to go away, so it alone is not the cause.

Yes and no.... many of us find that minor intolerances to soy or diary become less pronounced once the gut heals.

I DO agree that wheat is not exactly natural (bread is a processed seed), but like I have said, oatmeal IS healthy for most and yet toxic to Celiacs independent of wheat CC in some studies.

I do agree that it is probably benficial for people to eat food common to their ancestors.

One's ancestors is a whole thread at the moment....

However ... perhaps the difference is if ones ancestors were city folk...

Cities = wheat.... in almost every European and middle eastern context.

The Scandanavians had no cities.... wheat was never a staple.... neither are they particualrly gregarious...

Other cultures have been city dwellers much longer.... various Italian and Greek peoples.

perhaps check the thread.... the last link is to anti-social behaviour...

Is there a connection between being unable to partake in a group mentality and wheat?

In other words if you lived in cities you ate wheat... and if you were autistic spectrum then cities were possibly not your ideal place!

Is there a connection between autistic spectrum diseases and celiac disease?

Is the "domestication of man" as it were from a wild hunter gatherer to todays placid sheep like follower a function of those who went against the group mentality being marginalised ... having less breeding opportunity?

Perhaps if the link existed 10-20 thousand years ago with autism spectrum diseases and celiac disease that todays dominance of Neurologically Typical is simply because 10 people banding together with sticks can kill off 100 people who are loners.

I agree, Lister-- your anxiety is making you sicker. Have you spoken with your doctor about this, or seen a psychologist? Mind you I'm not saying you are imagining your pain-- but the digestive system is very sensitive to nervous disturbance. Even the healthiest person has experienced "butterflies in the stomach" or in a terrifying moment being "scared s$#&less"-- in someone with inflamed intestines, these symptoms are magnified. You would do yourself a world of good by learning relaxation techniques, guided visualization, yogic breathing. I suspect you would also profit from anti-anxiety meds but given your fear of meds, I'd start with the others.

Leah

I'm not a big fan of anti-anxiety meds, at least not long term but I have to agree.,

Lister: chronic tension is not something that goes away when you chill and watch a film.

If you have anxiety all the time you can push it aside when watching the film but its still there in your subconcious and then you go to bed and then you stress even when asleep...

Its like chronic depression... you might watch a comedy and laugh but that doesn't mean your not depressed!

Hhmmmm...codeine gives me a very bad headache, they gave it to me about 8 years back when i had my wisdom teeth taken out and i actually felt less pain after i stopped using it for the pain (how ironic is that!). So, ever since that experience i stay far far away from it.

Both are opiates and both attach to the endorphin receptors which are damaged by gluten....

Steve

One more question....my memory is rather vague on this topic, but if you could please tell me origin of:

1) Saxons

2) Normans

3) Gauls

I am mixing these 3 up and want to get it right

Also while we are on genetic topic, how then do the Scilians fit in the picture of Italy and Morocco and Libya? Would you say that these 3 groups exhibit celiac gene as well?

I am fascinated every time we go into a connecting area on this topic. I have another question and will post it when/if I remember it.

Thanks

Deb

Saxon's: very little is known of their origins before the 1st C b.c.

At this time Roman historians placed them between the Weser, Elbe and Eider rivers.

However Roman historians were not exactly great at classifying barbarian tribes. They could write volumes on peoples they considered educated and washed but frequently mixed up barbarians.

Normans: Again early history is a little vague.... They regarded Danes and Norwegians as fellow kinsfolk and originally shared a language... but also had homeland claimed connections to Neustria.. (present day mid France)

Both the Saxons and the Normans were opportunists in the fall of the Roman Empire and at the same time shuffled around by movements of nomadic peoples such as the Goths and visigoths.

The Normans were granted a duch from the King of France (France wasn't very big then) and this expanded to what is today Normandy. The adopted Northern French (based on akadian) as their language and in many ways emulated the gallo-roman culture remaining.

Their shallow bottomed boats were light and could be carried and they never really lost their "Viking" seafaring heritage nor love of war and fighting. Viking boats are found in Russia (the Rus) and the mediterranean though often they made the trips via rivers and carried the boats inbetween. (antioch was at one time a Norman colony, as was Sicly)

a contempory expert and historian Goffredo (or Geoffrey) Malaterra was an eleventh century Benedictine monk and chronicler of Norman origin. wrote:

"specially marked by cunning, despising their own inheritance in the hope of winning a greater, eager after both gain and dominion, given to imitation of all kinds, holding a certain mean between lavishness and greediness, that is, perhaps uniting, as they certainly did, these two seemingly opposite qualities. Their chief men were specially lavish through their desire of good report. They were, moreover, a race skillful in flattery, given to the study of eloquence, so that the very boys were orators, a race altogether unbridled unless held firmly down by the yoke of justice. They were enduring of toil, hunger, and cold whenever fortune laid it on them, given to hunting and hawking, delighting in the pleasure of horses, and of all the weapons and garb of war."

From Wikipedia

Geographically, Normandy was approximately the same region as the old church province of Rouen or Neustria. It had no natural frontiers and was previously merely an administrative unit. Its population was mostly Gallo-Roman with a small Frankish/Germanic people admixture, plus Viking settlers, who had begun arriving in the 880s, and who were divided between a small colony in Upper (or eastern) Normandy and a larger one in Lower (or western) Normandy.

In the course of the 10th century the initial destructive incursions of Norse war bands into the rivers of Gaul evolved into more permanent encampments that included women and chattel. The pagan culture was driven underground by the Christian faith and Gallo-Romance language of the local people. The small group of Vikings that settled in assimilated to the Gallo-Romance majority. After a generation or two, the Normans were generally indistinguishable from their French neighbours. With the zeal of new converts they set forth in the 11th century from their solid base in Normandy. Characteristically it was younger sons like William the Bastard, largely dispossessed at home, who headed the adventurous raiding parties.

In Normandy they adopted the growing feudal doctrines of France, and worked them, both in Normandy and in England, into a logical system.

The Norman warrior class was new and different from the old French aristocracy, many of whom could trace their families back to Carolingian times, while the Normans could seldom cite ancestors before the beginning of the 11th century. Most knights remained poor and land-hungry; by 1066, Normandy had been exporting fighting horsemen for more than a generation. Knighthood before the time of the Crusades held little social status, and simply indicated that a man was a professional warrior and wealthy enough to own a war horse. Many Normans of France and Britain would eventually serve as avid Crusaders.

The Norman language forged by the adoption of the indigenous oïl language by a Norse-speaking ruling class developed into the regional language which survives today.

Gauls:

The first literary reference to the Celtic people, as keltoi is by the Greek historian Hecataeus in 517 BC. He locates the Keltoi tribe in Rhenania (West/Southwest Germany) ... the gauls are often used interchangably with Celtic in the region North of the Alps! (a pretty board definition) ...

The Romans really didn't care about where a tribe came from if they didn't wash everyday.

Thier principal interests were price as a slave and what art work they might have and any lands they could conquer.

Julius Caesar's comments on these people from his book, Commentarii de Bello Gallico, are worth quoting:

"All Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, those who in their own language are called Celts, in our Gauls, the third.

All these differ from each other in language, customs and laws.

The river Garonne separates the Gauls from the Aquitani; the Marne and the Seine separate them from the Belgae.

Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind; and they are the nearest to the Germanic people, who dwell beyond the Rhine, with whom they are continually waging war; for which reason the Helvetii also surpass the rest of the Gauls in valor, as they contend with the Germanic people in almost daily battles, when they either repel them from their own territories, or themselves wage war on their frontiers. One part of these, which it has been said that the Gauls occupy, takes its beginning at the river Rhone; it is bounded by the river Garonne, the ocean, and the territories of the Belgae; it borders, too, on the side of the Sequani and the Helvetii, upon the river Rhine, and stretches toward the north.

The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun.

Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."

Additionally rome had an outstanding debt... when the sacked Rome in 390BC.

but it should be noted

The first book deals primarily but not exclusively with the Helvetian War in 58 BC. In it, Caesar describes Gaul and the campaign against the Helvetii, a conglomeration of peoples numbering in excess of 300,000, who decided to migrate by force of arms from the Alpine regions through the centre of Gaul to the west to alleviate population pressures. This would require the crossing either of Provence, or of areas held by tribes allied to Rome. When Caesar made it clear he would not allow this, the Helvetians formed an alliance of tribes to fight him. This drew the Romans out of Provence. Later books are about the campaigns against Veneti, Aquitani, Germans and Bretons; Caesar's invasions of Britain; the insurrection of Gaul (VII, 4) and the defeat of Vercingetorix at Alesia (VII, 89).

At the same time Thrace was also being over run by "celts"

DNA analyses with both mtDNA and Y-chromosome have shown that Celts were kin to the Basques. It has been pointed by J.F. del Giorgio, in The Oldest Europeans, that practically the whole post-glacial European population proceeded from almost the same genetic stock, due to a genetic bottle-neck or human near extinction during the coldest episode of the Ice Age in Europe. Celts evidently mantained their isolation as much as possible, but there was an obvious addition of Indo-Europeans as shown by Celtic language and religion.

The Y-chromosomes of populations of the so called Celtic countries have been found in one study to primarily belong to haplogroup R1B, which makes them descendants partially of the first people to migrate into north-western Europe after the last major ice age. According to the most recently published studies of European haplogroups, around half of the current male population of that portion of Eurasia is a descendant of the R1B haplogroup.

Argument rages in the academic world as to whether or not the Celts in England were mostly wiped out/pushed west as the lack of evidence for influence of the Celts on Anglo-Saxon society suggests. Many historians now argue that the Teuton migration was smaller than previously believed or may have consisted merely of a social elite and that the genocide was cultural rather than physical due to such relatively few numbers of Anglo-Saxons mixing with the larger native population. A recent DNA study on Y-chromosome inheritance has suggested that the population of England maintains a predominantly ancient British element. The general indigenous population of Yorkshire, East Anglia and the Orkney and Shetland Islands are those populations with the least traces of ancient British paternal continuation [8]. Ironically, it may be Viking genetic influence and not Anglo-Saxon which has had a more profound impact on paternal British bloodlines, or it could very well have been a combination of both groups.

__________________________________________________________________-

WOW.. so still confused?

Take hese all together.... the celts already mixed blood with Angles and Saxons .. or at least the Romans regarded the belgae as a mixed tribe. (according to Julius)

The Saxons and Angles were also Northern Germanic/Scandanavian....

The whole lot of them were given to frequent raiding, rape and stealing women... soits hardly surprising if they cannot be easily seperated 1000 yrs later !

____________________________________________________________________

Sicly.... really where to start.

It was a greek colony at Syracuse but equally the Cartheginians (present day Tunis) also controlled it and indeed its control was partly reponsible for the Punic wars.

From wikipedia again

The Berbers (also called Amazigh people or Imazighen, "free men", singular Amazigh) are an ethnic group indigenous to Northwest Africa, speaking the Berber languages of the Afroasiatic family. In actuality, Berber is a generic name given to numerous heterogeneous ethnic groups that share similar cultural, political, and economic practices. It is not a term originated by the group itself, and indeed the word may have been derived from the Greek 'βάρβαρος', the forerunner of the English word 'barbarian'.

Then read.....

Open Original Shared Link

and compare with the origins of the Celts.

It starts to sound like cooking....

Wow...that baking soda thing sounds pretty interesting!

Thanks for the advice...and the pun intended

p.s. I see from your sig your allergic to coedine. I would unless you know otherwise presume you are allergic to loperamide (immodium) as well.

GFP is one of the most informed "experts" on this board and when he gives advice, one better listen.

thanks nini, don't really consider myself an expert though if "expert" means learning the hardway then I guess I am....

I'm certainly an expert in "ah..sharing pans is OK., and I'll wipe off the chopping board.. " .... been there done it and lost 6 months of my life I will never get back to depression and illness. If I come across strong its because like nini, Ive been there and done it...

I might still be doing it had it not for several people giving me strong advice! (because I certainly am one stubborn SOB)

Ive also made strong posts before... apologised and then had the person who's question it was say "nope that's exactly what I needed"

gluten-free does NOT MEAN sharing a toaster or wooden cutting board or wooden utensils or collanders or cast iron pans or scratched non stick pans... if you are sharing those with a non gluten-free person, YOU are technically not gluten-free, you are gluten lite. Even if you FEEL fine, remember that it only takes ONE molecule of gluten to continue to cause damage to the villi in the small intestine. Just because YOU don't react outwardly, doesn't mean it's not continuing to damage your insides leaving you prone to all kinds of complications down the road and def. continued depression and anxiety disorders.

Exactly and as someone else said "being a little celiac is like being a little bit pregnant" .. you either are or you are not.

I am a scientist .. I'm not given to beleiving anything without proof...but my experience and that of others has caused me to realise saying "all distilled liquor is OK" is not true.... and even if it is and those of us who do react are suffering physcosomatic symptoms (which I don't believe) then it is still better to be safe.

and when he gives advice, one better listen.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion... but telling someone John Grisham is a better writer than Tom Clancy is not the same as telling them a bit of cross contamination is OK, its more like saying "Yesterday I walked across the street with a paper bag over my head and didn't get knocked down so its OK for you to do it"

No its not... we all live in different neighbourhoods... heck I could probably lie on my road blindfolded for 1/2 hr.(on Sundays, Saturdays...is a different matter since I live right next to a synaogue and Jewish cultural centre).. you might have just been lucky?

The point is overall its not good to say "crossing the road blindfiolded is OK" but saying always stop on the sidewalk and look both ways twice is good info.. its not going to kill or hurt anyone! you can even say it to me on Sunday and being careful won't hurt me....

Wow, you sound very similar to me with your sympstons. What kind of chips were you eating that were gluten-free but contaminated? And, have you found any positive signs to being yeast free? (oh yes, and did the D get alot better over the six month mark?)

This really is the killer!

When you first start at riceman says you have accumulated damage...

This means other things can also give you D and in either case the less irritation the faster they heal.

Many of us find gluten free a long journey.

We start off sharing cutting boards and stuff .. our first impressions are good and then we clean out the gluten and then our body starts to adjust to like without it and WHAM... we react to the slightest thing...

This is the pain in the butt phase... (pun intended)

Between purging the gluten and healing the villi.... and this phase can last a few weeks to a few years.

How long depends on your overall health and lots of other factors BUT what most of us find is that when we thought we were gluten-free .. we weren't. Also dairy/soy etc. irritate a lot of us and it takes time .. once the villi heal many of us can eat dairy and soy again! (usually in moderation)

If you want to cut down the worst phase then as already suggested... cut out anything possibly contaminated.... clean out ALL gluten from your kitchen.(everything ursual said). don't eat out and if you can take your own food. Cut out dairy and soy.. you can't really cut out yeasts, its impossible.. you breath them all the time but obviously some types are a lot worse than others (and some you would die without)...

Noone can promise how long it will take, its really quite individual... but if you do go the whole hog I im pretty sure you see results much faster.

Slowly reintroduce things.... as Riceman said one at a time... you will know when its right (and then wait a week) ...

Six months is the MINIMUM... average is about 2 years... some people heal faster and others take longer. I've been gluten-free for 3 1/2 year now and only occassionally have bouts of D usually from cross contamination in my kitchen. And yes you have to be so careful with cross contamination.

I think the six months depends.... most of us probably didn't start our gluten-free diet in the best way....(I certainly didn't) but the thing is once you get to a certain point the odd CC doesn't set back the OVERALL healing process.

Its a bit like bringing up kids.... everyone has their own ideas and the one certain thing is there is no foolproof way to do it... you just do your best from day to day. However at the moment you and the disease are codependant... you are trying to heal but each CC or mistake sets you back...

A bit further down the road you won't need to be quite so attentive... like kids you have got this for life and like kids ... it will keep coming back but just like as the kids get older and they can look after themselves you will be the same.

At the begining its a constant thing... it wakes you up in the night, drains your resources and ...... but if you continue it gets easier and easier.

My name is Kris, and I'm a pizzaholic.

Next line....

My name is Kris - and I suffer GERD - so I can't eat tomatoes.... tomato sauce, or any of my other favorite pizza toppings.

Big problem, eh??

So, what else can I use to make a pizza??? Is there such thing as a low acid tomato sauce? Is there such thing as a dairy/lactose free alfredo sauce?

I'm not very creative in the kitchen. My pizzas normally consist of Kinnikinnick crust, organic sauce, and soy mozzarella - and often chopped tomatoes.

I want pizza..... can anyone help me????????????????????

There are loads of "white pizza's" that don't use tomatoe at all. Just google or look at

Open Original Shared Link

Then just pick the ingredients you like and thow em on top (obviously missing out any non gluten-free ones)

Also depending how bad you are with the tomatoes you could try boiling them for a long time (like over 1 hour)

you need to add water a bit else you'll get treacle .. but while boiling you can add some garlic and herbs and then 10 minutes before your ready throw in some basil.

Hope these both help

GFP,

One word: HARSH! She is new at this. I didn't even try to overwhelm her. As far as you are concerned, dare I say PARANOID!!!!!!! I live in a house with three children and a husband, and believe me, I use the same toaster without incident! I also allow gluten filled products into the household, and I use the same dishes too!!!! As long as you properly clean things, no one gets hurt. I am going on 11 years with this, and believe me, I've never had any incident anywhere! The only thing I don't allow is free flowing flour. So, have a little compassion for the newbie! My advice to her was to bring her family on board, because that is very important. It's not important to make her paranoid about utensils or dishes!!! You should have a little more understanding of the situation, since you were there yourself!! She has to understand that eating gluten of any kind will hurt her. No one can do it for her! We can only guide her through this rough time. My advice to you is not to give advice at all!!! You make it sound too much like a horror story!!

Vicki

Gluten free since 1995

I'm sorry if you think that using a shared toaster is gluten free, its not.

I also allow gluten filled products into the household, and I use the same dishes too!!!!

Yep my mom started out thinking she could share food off a plate with my brother if she didn't eat the bread.

As long as you properly clean things, no one gets hurt.

Sure but using the same pan scourer and sponges is NOT safe.... or even close.

You can test this easily yourself....

Get some dichlorofluorescein and use it to stain the gluten products... its very low toxicity but I wouldn't recommend eating them after.

Simply try cooking a pan of pasta until it sticks for instance and add some .... then scrub off the pasta....

stick it in the dishwasher as well (after cleaning) .. stick some in the toaster and let it pop etc. etc. and use the kitchen through the day then when its dark take a UV light.

Look around your kitchen, non stained gluten prodcuts should be blue... the dichlorofluorescein stained products will be green.

Another example, i was watching CSI with my girlfriend the other week and the clue was they found a har of the baby sitter in the parent's bed.

I remarked it meant less than nothing... it could have been transferred in101 ways without her ever being in the bedroom. The next day I pull off a cat hair from my girlfriends jacket .. same sort of hair as my cat used to have ... (I am reasonably certain its the same cat but that's not that important as we don't have a cat but he had very white very soft and non waterproof fur) the point is I haven't seen my cat for 5 years... but when I moved I had clothes with cat hairs on... and somehow over 5 years and mixed washes etc. etc. the hair finds its way back.

There are many celaics who are asymptomatic but have perfectly smooth intestines and others who get ill almost practically by smelling the stuff and there are a whole load of people inbetween.

Now even those who are not showing any outwards reaction are still damaging their villi.

We can also address what is unaffected....

A normal low risk adult with have one case of diarrhea per year and those in high risk groups (people around small babies, homosexual males etc. can have diarrhea up to 5 times per year!)

If you are not in a high risk group and have diarrhea more than 2-3 times a year (over several years, anyone can be unlucky) then something is wrong.

Most dr.s will call anytihng that gives diarrhea IBS....

It is clinically proven

Sanders DS, Carter MJ, Hurlstone DP, et al. Association of adult coeliac disease with irritable bowel syndrome: a case-control study in patients fulfilling ROME II criteria referred to secondary care. Lancet. 2001;358:1504-1508.

That coeliac patients have a 7 fold greater incidence of IBS than a normal population...

Some of these may have colites or chrons disease

The prevalence of ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease ranges from 10 to 70 per 100,000 people, but recent studies in Manitoba, Canada, and Rochester, MN, have shown prevalence as high as 200 per 100,000 people

sources:

# Niv Y, Abuksis G, Fraser GM. Epidemiology of ulcerative colitis in Israel: a survey of Israeli kibbutz settlements. Am J Gastroenterol. 2000;95:693-698.

# Loftus EV Jr, Silverstein MD, Sandborn WJ, et al. Crohn's disease in Olmsted County, Minnesota, 1940-1993: incidence, prevalence, and survival. Gastroenterology. 1998;114:1161-1168.

But that's not very many!

So what gives?

Perhaps the incidence is due to celaics who think gluten-free is sharing a toaster. However rather more sinisterly, perhaps untreated celiac disease is what causes these! An in this case untreated means sharing a toaster etc.

What is absolutely certain is that a large amount of celiacs who do share toasters etc. continue to have IBS type symptoms.

What is even more shocking is the number of these that when you suggest this is the cause of thier IBS come out with statements like "but I have been completely gluten-free for X years"

Let me be perfectly frank (I usually am)... I don't think ANYONE has been gluten-free from x years... IT IS NOT POSSIBLE unless you make every meal yourself from ingredients that cannot possiblty be contaminated... if you eat out occaisionally, cross contamination and good old fashioned misreading ingredients....

Perhaps some people don't get diarrhea .... but equally that doesn't mean they are not being glutened from time to time.

There is also a good correlation between those who take the gluten-free diet very seriously and those in the I brush off the breadcrumbs and pick out the croutons gluten-free people.

Those who are very serious tend to react to much lower glutening and much more strongly.

My advice to you is not to give advice at all!!!

Whatever... but would I be correct in guessing you also deny the extensive medical evidence for gluten causing depression and anger?

Lister, all you have done is freak out over every symptom.

The amount you are worrying about everything anyone would be ill.

Nor is being perpetually worried going to help the healing process WHATSOEVER.

If you can't control this constant freaking out yourself then you are going to need some professional help.

i feel these are a really really bad idea, i dont want to go to sleep and end up in a coma or something i meen sheesh these pills may as well be cyanide

hes a fricking crackpot

and these pills are making me so fricking tired i can barely function

He sounds like a pretty good MD....

WORRY is what is making you so freakin tired! WORRY and STRESS.

ugh these pills suck so far. my stomic just attacked me farely bad, i was just laying there and it kept making a really really loud squirting noise with pain sad.gif gah wtf these pills are making me worse

Er, you got stressed and your stomach reacted. ???

the black stuff just makes me really nervis and the smell of my bms has changed back to that scary smell

Scary smell? What it smells like a tiger.. tiger's are scary.... poop smells bad.. not scary.

but since going gluten free i have close to 150 pounds i was around 278-285 and now im 160- this weight loss happend in less then 4 months of time. is this normal after going gluten free?

Its completely normal for someone stressing out over nothing.

im so close to giving up on the diet and just eating normal i almost dont care if i do get sick again hey atleast then i would loose the rest of my stomic and probably die off of this crappy planet and stupid life.

gah should not have read all of that i desided to look up Zollinger-Ellison syndrome, and now im scared crappless, i hope i dont got that jeesus canceres tumors and crap omg...... but when i googled Zollinger-Ellison syndrome it was talking about knawging pain in upper abdomen and that is what i have ahhhhh ok i wont try to get worked up over this without having the apointment on monday first

the more i read the more i get scared, i dont know what i have i match all the symptoms for petic ulcers, zollinger ellison syndrom, and stomic cancer now im crying because i dont even see how a doctor will be able to figure it out- i just made myself really upset....... im gonna go lay down im tearing up

Then quit reading....

Glutamine may cross the BBB, as do other things, but I am not aware of it being able to be absorbed transdermally. So, in short, if it cannot be absorbed through the skin, there is no chance of it reaching the BBB unless ingested.

I am willing to accept contraindicating evidence, of course, but this is my understanding.

So far as I know any evidence is with the cosmetics co's.... and unlikely to leave ...

But the real point is in absense to the contrary I prefer not to take risks.

I don't think gluten is adsorbed... certainly not as whole molecule but ....

well here is the oppostie perspective

Open Original Shared Link

The Web site also claims, "Amino acids are rapidly absorbed in the blood stream..." At the very least, this is a typo, and should read "absorbed by the blood stream," but even then the quote neglects half the story. I have no doubt whatsoever that Amino acids are speedily absorbed into the bloodstream through the walls of the digestive tract, but I have many doubts as to whether the same can be said about absorbtion through the skin.

Not to put too fine a point on it but 15 yrs ago it was absolutely certain that PCB's cannot be absorbed through skin.

I can't really say much more because of confidentiality but suffice to say my ex did absorb them as did her lab assistant and this was through very limited contact.

My point about gluten containing body creams and all-over gels is they are given a huge surface area so even if the uptake is very low its a huge area. Secondly permeability is increased after heat/hot baths etc. just when we use these products and thirdly cuts and abrasions also allow a more direct method.

The bottom line is for me still "noone has proven otherwise"