Link between Iodine Intake and DH

[Alaskaguy]

Hello All,

I'm just curious about the possible link between iodine intake and subsequent aggravation of dermatitis herpetiformis. 

Is this a generally medically and/or scientifically recognized link, or is it one that is just more anecdotal in nature?  Given that I have not had any formal contact with doctors regarding my DH (so yes, self-diagnosed, but 99.9999999999% sure), I am not sure now if I had read of the presumed link between iodine and DH only here in this forum, or if it was elsewhere in all the blizzard of online and library resources touching on celiac disease and DH that I'd read in the past year+.

Also, on a secondary note, I had a strange thought regarding this subject, presuming it to be a fact.  If iodine aggravates and causes to flare up the pre-existing gluten antibodies in the skin of those of us with DH, might it be at least theoretically possible to totally load up on iodine-rich foods --- like say, eating a whole bunch of kelp --- to purposely cause all those dormant antibodies to fire off in one fell swoop and "use them up", so to speak, thereby accelerating the healing process (if being miserable in the short term)?  Has anyone ever heard of anyone using such a strategy to speed up their DH healing time?

[Alaskaguy]

Looking into the iodine content of various foods, I found the following British study that was quite interesting (see page 12, Table 3.3, in particular):

http://nora.nerc.ac.uk/id/eprint/8354/1/CR03084N.pdf

I was quite surprised to find that both asparagus and spinach are very high in iodine, on a weight-per-weight basis (ug/kg, as given here).  In fact, one pound of asparagus has more than FIVE times as much iodine as an equal weight of milk!  And for spinach, more than three times as much iodine.

And wouldn't you know it, early last week I cooked and ate an entire pound of asparagus --- in one day! Hmmmm.....

I also found it interesting that apparently, a given weight of cheese (unspecified type, presumably cheddar-like) has less than half as much iodine as a given weight of cucumber, or that lettuce has more than TWICE as much iodine per weight as milk.  But of course, common serving sizes have to be considered here --- it would be very easy to consume a pound of milk in one day (slightly less than four 8 oz. glasses), whereas it is doubtful that anyone would ever eat anywhere near that much lettuce in one day.

I'm also surprised that rice is moderately high in iodine as well --- 140 ug/kg.  So eating half a pound of (dry weight) rice in one day give one around 60-65 ug of iodine, or almost half of the normal US recommended daily allowance for an adult.

[squirmingitch]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for validating something I was sure of. Asparagus & spinach being high in iodine. Somewhere in this dh forum I have said as much. You know how I knew? Yep, you got it. The rash told me. I ADORE asparagus & love spinach. I quit both of them b/c every time I had them, boom! The asparagus especially. Funny this all comes up now b/c just last week I could not resist buying some fresh spring asparagus. I did not get a pound of it though. Knew better than to do that. Guess what happened? Yep. BUT, the terrific part is that I only got an outbreak in one area & it was not the make-you-crazy-want-to-filet-your-skin-off itching, hot, stinging rash. That is really major especially considering I also got some fresh spinach & ate that too. This lets me know I have made fantastic progress.

Since we're talking about it; how about strawberries? I haven't had any in maybe 2 years b/c they aggravated the rash. I concluded they may be high iodine or it might be that they are one of the dirty dozen & the chemicals made me react.

The iodine thing is noted in medical texts but I don't have any links for you right now. It would take some doing for me to find them. You could do a search in the forum here b/c I am positive I've posted links to those several times. You could also check PubMed. So to answer your original question -- yes, medical as well as our own experiences.

Ha! All I have to say to your strange thought of ODing on iodine is 

1) I like the way you think & you may well be onto something

2) I'm not going to be the guinea pig but if you want to give it a go & see what happens, you have my gratitude for experimenting & possibly finding a solution.

[Alaskaguy]

Squirmingitch, it is quite interesting that your experience with asparagus and spinach seem to match the information on iodine content of those vegetables in that British study.

One thing that I did want to point out, though, and I think this study mentions it as well, and that is that the iodine content of vegetables, and other foods in general, can be extremely variable from season to season, and from location to location. This is true of many of the trace elements in foods.  So I wouldn't take the results of this study as absolute and definitive, but they should give at least an idea of what we're dealing with in terms of iodine in various foods.

Speaking of the results of that study, I was overall surprised by the relatively high iodine content of just about everything!  It makes me wonder how anyone EVER developed goiters and iodine deficiency!  But looking at online information about low-iodine diets (mostly in the context of upcoming radiological testing of thyroid glands), I am puzzled by the blanket prohibition of cheese.  As most of the iodine in foods is water-soluble and therefore flushed away with the whey in the cheese making process, it stands to reason that cheese should be relatively safe, and the results of that study bear this out --- ounce for ounce, cheese (generally speaking) seems to have little if any more iodine content than poultry or beef, and certainly less than rice.  Yet poultry or beef or rice do not seem to be limited on low-iodine diets.  Curious.

Regarding my idea about overdosing on iodine-rich food in order to try to get rid of the gluten antibodies in the skin of DH sufferers, I think I personally will leave it at just that --- an idea.  Still, it does make me wonder if anyone out there had ever tried such a strategy, as unpleasant in the short term as it sounds.

[squirmingitch]

19 minutes ago, Alaskaguy said:

One thing that I did want to point out, though, and I think this study mentions it as well, and that is that the iodine content of vegetables, and other foods in general, can be extremely variable from season to season, and from location to location. This is true of many of the trace elements in foods.  So I wouldn't take the results of this study as absolute and definitive, but they should give at least an idea of what we're dealing with in terms of iodine in various foods.

Exactly! It is a great resource though & yes, lets us have at least a general idea. The soil items are grown in makes a difference too. That's what I was getting at when I mentioned the dustbowl. I mean, there was the factor of the soil being used up from decades of farming, the weather factors that gave the dustbowl it's name and the fact that the topsoil had all been blown away. Iodine occurs in greater quantities in the upper layers of soil. The iodine deficient goiters were more common in the dustbowl region. 

Then speaking more generally, in those days foods tended to come from nearby and I'm sure a vast majority of people had home gardens that sustained them in large part. Thus, whatever that soil had to impart was what they were the beneficiaries of or not, as the case may be. However, now we get produce from all over the place, not just the US or North America but from all over the world. I think that is a large part of the reason goiters related to iodine deficiency have decreased so much in the US at least. 

Very interesting about the cheese!

I freely admit I knew about the spinach b/c the thyca.org site, when it had a more comprehensive list, stated spinach as well as all the "greens" - turnip greens, mustard greens & so forth. While I'm thinking about it, it also said lima beans were on the higher end for what it's worth. They missed the asparagus though but it didn't take me long to figure that one out. It did say (maybe it still does?) that ground meats tend to be more iodine rich - things like sausage & hamburger.

[Alaskaguy]

SI, that is a very good point you make regarding how in the past, most people were ONLY eating foods from their immediate vicinity, so yeah, it stands to reason that deficiency diseases of all sorts would have been more common back then.  Hmmmm, it makes me wonder how things are going to go (and not just in regards to food) after this tottering economy likely crashes very soon, and globalism gets put into reverse gear ....

As much as I want to absolutely adhere to both the Fasano Elimination Diet AND a low-iodine diet for the next few months, I honestly can't see why I couldn't have a modest amount of cheese.  It would sure help with choking down all those white potatoes.

(That does not apply to cottage cheese, though, whose iodine content is similar per ounce to milk and yogurt and sour cream --- only the hard cheeses.)

I'm rather bothered by the apparent moderately high iodine content of rice, though, as I was planning on relying on it rather heavily while on the Fasano Diet.  I know that I can do potatoes and sweet potatoes, and I was planning on trying to use some plantains and maybe even taro root, as well.  Taro is, however, one of those high-oxalate foods (in fact, it is toxic when raw due to the oxalate content, which breaks down in the cooking), so I might use those only once in a while.

Somewhere else that I was reading online today, regarding the low-iodine diet, it was mentioned that BANANAS are relatively high in iodine!  Really???  I had not read that anywhere else.  And those were going to be my ONE easy snack food!

[squirmingitch]

BANANAS?????? Really??? Gosh, I have never seen bananas mentioned in anything I've read in regards to iodine content of foods. I eat bananas like crazy. I love my bananas! They are quite a staple for me. Not giving up bananas, no way, no how. I have gone 3 or 4 days & sometimes a week w/o eating a banana & have never noticed any difference in the rash. I eat the heck out of avocados too.

Yes, I am surprised about the rice too.  You know, Alaskaguy, I thought I would never survive without my quick & dirty carbs. Unlike so many, I do not need to watch my weight. In fact, the opposite is true. I really need to gain. I am only 95 lbs. (5'2"), at one point I was down to 91 lbs. It has taken me a few years to gain those 4 lbs. So you can see why I was loathe to pretty much give up eating a lot of the "fast" carbs. One of my best friends calls me a hummingbird -- I need to re-fuel frequently or I run out of steam. But I found rice & all grains just didn't sit well with me. I used to eat a lot more white potatoes but sort of weaned myself off of so many of them. I still eat them, they just aren't a staple anymore. You know what? I actually adjusted. Our bodies are wondrous things! Now, I actually eat 3 meals a day, an afternoon snack (usually a glass of milk) & an evening snack (often peeled, sliced apples with extra sharp cheddar cheese & a glass of milk) & that's it. I don't need to constantly eat in order to not get shaky. Complex carbs are dandy. I do eat a fair amount of cooked, dried beans. Protein has pretty much replaced the quick carbs. Eat more protein.

 

[squirmingitch]

9 hours ago, Alaskaguy said:

Hmmmm, it makes me wonder how things are going to go (and not just in regards to food) after this tottering economy likely crashes very soon, and globalism gets put into reverse gear ....

Yes! Cause & effect. The cause has already happened, the full effect has yet to be realized. Hang onto your seats ladies & gentlemen.

[Alaskaguy]

SI, yeah, I've been pretty reliant on carbs of all kinds for much of my life, maybe more than was necessary.  But for at least the last 30 years or so, it's been ALL whole-grain carbs, and I always felt pretty good about that --- whole wheat pasta, whole wheat bread (when I ate it, not often), quinoa, oatmeal, oat flour, whole grain corn flour (milled myself), brown rice (and some white rice), etc.  I am just hoping SO much that when this phase is all over (the Fasano Diet), I will find that I can at least have my purity protocol oats back, but I have a sinking suspicion that they may have been (at least one of) the sources of my ongoing and/or recurring problems.

OK, on the bananas and iodine, a quick internet search gave me this:

15. Bananas:

Banana is an excellent energy boosting fruit. It contains a high potassium content that energizes you in a jiffy. However, not many are aware of the iodine content in bananas. A medium sized banana provides 3 micrograms of iodine, amounting to 2% of the daily value.

16. Strawberries:

Strawberries are a nutrient dense fruit that provides the body with a plethora of essential vitamins and minerals. This delicious fruit is a surprising source of iodine as well. A cup serving of iodine contains 13 micrograms of iodine, around 10% of what an average person needs in a day.

(Source: https://www.healthbeckon.com/iodine-rich-foods/ )

So bananas seem pretty safe as iodine goes --- 3 ug is a pretty trivial amount, unless you're eating 20 or 30 bananas a day.  I put the strawberry information in there as well, as you had mentioned them in a prior post (although I think that they meant to say "a cup serving of strawberries", not "a cup serving of iodine"!  Can you imagine a cup serving of IODINE?!!!)

[squirmingitch]

LOL! A cup serving of iodine! Hahahahahaha! That gave me a good chuckle.

Well, considering how I can almost inhale strawberries, and combined with the amount of milk I drink; I would be pretty sure it's the iodine content of strawberries. Thanks for that info.! I suppose I could give up a glass of milk in favor of a bowl of strawberries but it wouldn't be as much fun as pouring some milk, or better yet cream, over the strawberries.

I only have 1 or 2 bananas per day so I'm safe.

I am so afraid you may not be able to go back to oats. I sure hope you can eventually but I fear the worst. It sounds like oats are something you really love as well as maybe a comfort food. They were one of my comfort foods but now I'm pretty used to not having them & rarely think about them.

[Alaskaguy]

3 minutes ago, squirmingitch said:

LOL! A cup serving of iodine! Hahahahahaha! That gave me a good chuckle.

Well, considering how I can almost inhale strawberries, and combined with the amount of milk I drink; I would be pretty sure it's the iodine content of strawberries. Thanks for that info.! I suppose I could give up a glass of milk in favor of a bowl of strawberries but it wouldn't be as much fun as pouring some milk, or better yet cream, over the strawberries.

I only have 1 or 2 bananas per day so I'm safe.

I am so afraid you may not be able to go back to oats. I sure hope you can eventually but I fear the worst. It sounds like oats are something you really love as well as maybe a comfort food. They were one of my comfort foods but now I'm pretty used to not having them & rarely think about them.

Well, SI, since you brought up the subject of strawberries and their iodine content, I looked up data from two or three other sources, and they all closely agree with the iodine content of strawberries as given above.  That was kind of a surprise to me.  But then again, I was SHOCKED by the high levels of iodine in asparagus!  I will certainly avoid that vegetable for a good while, at least.

I am afraid as well that your fears about me and oats are well-founded.  When I think back on it, some major episodes of DH flare-up over the past year do seem to coincide with repeated uses of oatmeal and/or oat flour.  Oh would that suck if I can't have my oats!  And here I have like 160 lbs of purity protocol oats on hand, between the oat groats and the rolled oats, as I had a one-time chance to freight them up to Alaska relatively inexpensively last year --- normally, it could cost an arm and a leg, and another arm and another leg.  I'm just guessing that the teff is much less likely to be a problem, being so much more distantly related to gluten grains than oats are.  Hopefully, I'll know the answers to those questions later this summer or fall.

[squirmingitch]

Will the oats keep? I mean, do you have the correct storage temp. for them & the teff too. I know it can cost a bundle to ship things to AK.

I have some good recipes using almond flour & so you might want to get into that too, especially if you can't regain the oats. But you don't want to muddy the waters with adding that just at this point so we'll wait until later. 

[Alaskaguy]

1 hour ago, squirmingitch said:

Will the oats keep? I mean, do you have the correct storage temp. for them & the teff too. I know it can cost a bundle to ship things to AK.

I have some good recipes using almond flour & so you might want to get into that too, especially if you can't regain the oats. But you don't want to muddy the waters with adding that just at this point so we'll wait until later. 

SI, oh yes, I have the oats (both the grain and the rolled oats) in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers inside, stored in a cool room, so they should be good for literally decades --- probably longer than I will be good for!  I'm definitely not worried about them getting stale anytime soon.  And yeah, I have so much of them precisely because it DOES normally cost so much to ship almost anything in bulk to Alaska, but I was already bringing up some other freight last year with a freight forwarder, so it was relatively cheap for me to add them onto the pallet and bring them up that way.

I have a good amount of teff grain on hand also, but not nearly as much as the oats, and the Teff Co. is very good in that they include the  price of shipping (in this case, by the US Postal Service) in with the price of the teff itself.  And really, even if I can't do the oats in the future ( ?! ), it seems rather unlikely that I would also be intolerant of the teff.  But if I had to chose between the two, I'd definitely take the oats!

About the almond flour, that is an intriguing product that I have no experience with, and almost no knowledge of.  The poster Ennis here has already sent me a bunch of recipes using almond flour and coconut flour that he makes himself, so I will definitely look into all that at some point down the road (After my strict Fasano Diet test is finished, Lord willing).