Jump to content

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

A Question About Gluten Intolerance V. Celiac

emcmaster

Recommended Posts

emcmaster Collaborator
emcmaster
Posted

I've not been formally diagnosed. I had a colonoscopy & endoscopy in July 2005, but the doctor said he didn't find anything. I went gluten-free as a last resort to heal my pain in April '06.

My question: Is it possible that there wasn't enough damage done when my doctor did the tests? Does gluten intolerance (because I'm positive I have at least that, if not celiac) do damage to the villi as well? Is it possible my doctor missed it?

Thanks :)

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


CarlaB Enthusiast
CarlaB
Posted

It is possible your doctor missed it. The blood tests and biopsy can prove you have celiac but cannot rule it out. Dietary response is the best indicator. The current tests only can pick up celiac when it is relatively progressed -- the intestine is already damaged badly. Even then it can miss the damage as every square inch of intestine is not necessarily affected ... they can take the biopsy from a healthy spot. If you stopped eating gluten and got healthy, you need to be gluten-free. Whether it's celiac or gluten intolerance is only a matter of semantics. Technically speaking, since they found no damage in me (I was already gluten-free and did an inadequate gluten challenge), I'm gluten intolerant. However, my symptoms are those of a so-called classic celiac and I have autoimmune antibodies, so the gluten is doing more damage than just causing me discomfort.

oceangirl Collaborator
oceangirl
Posted
It is possible your doctor missed it. The blood tests and biopsy can prove you have celiac but cannot rule it out. Dietary response is the best indicator. The current tests only can pick up celiac when it is relatively progressed -- the intestine is already damaged badly. Even then it can miss the damage as every square inch of intestine is not necessarily affected ... they can take the biopsy from a healthy spot. If you stopped eating gluten and got healthy, you need to be gluten-free. Whether it's celiac or gluten intolerance is only a matter of semantics. Technically speaking, since they found no damage in me (I was already gluten-free and did an inadequate gluten challenge), I'm gluten intolerant. However, my symptoms are those of a so-called classic celiac and I have autoimmune antibodies, so the gluten is doing more damage than just causing me discomfort.

Hi, Elizabeth!

I had an endo and colonoscopy after being mostly gluten-free for 3 months and they were negative. I, too, did a gluten challenge, but lasted only three days as the pain was so severe I almost went to the hospital. I was "diagnosed" by Enterolab as "having two genes for gluten intolerance." (same as Carla- DQ1,1 subtypes 5, 6) No one can convince me that gluten is not damaging to me. My list of symptoms prior to giving up gluten has twenty things on it. I am still not great, but at least 3/4 of those symptoms are gone.

Good luck and feel well.

lisa

emcmaster Collaborator
emcmaster
Posted
  • Author

Thanks Carla and Lisa!

I have autoimmune thyroiditis/hypothyroidism, which was diagnosed when I was in high school. I hadn't had my thyroid tested in a while when I tested last fall. The tests came back that my antibody levels were in the 600's (from what I understand, normal is 35 or lower). Do you think this is a cause/effect of the celiac/gluten intolerance? Both of my parents have hypothyroidism.

oceangirl Collaborator
oceangirl
Posted
Thanks Carla and Lisa!

I have autoimmune thyroiditis/hypothyroidism, which was diagnosed when I was in high school. I hadn't had my thyroid tested in a while when I tested last fall. The tests came back that my antibody levels were in the 600's (from what I understand, normal is 35 or lower). Do you think this is a cause/effect of the celiac/gluten intolerance? Both of my parents have hypothyroidism.

Elizabeth,

Ooh, I don't know but it seems there have been people on here talking about their thyroid issues. Do you have a knowledgable celiac/intolerance doctor? It seems you should check with a doctor. Sorry I'm not more help- maybe someone else will post.

lisa

emcmaster Collaborator
emcmaster
Posted
  • Author
Elizabeth,

Ooh, I don't know but it seems there have been people on here talking about their thyroid issues. Do you have a knowledgable celiac/intolerance doctor? It seems you should check with a doctor. Sorry I'm not more help- maybe someone else will post.

lisa

I don't have a knowledgable doctor right now, but I'm looking around for one. I'm going to see another thyroid specialist next week, and I'll definitely ask him, too.

Thanks for all your help, Lisa!

Elizabeth

melie Apprentice
melie
Posted

Hey Elizabeth,

I do not have a 'formal' celiac diagnosis from the med. community, but one from Enterolab, and that combined with my response to the diet told me all I needed to know. It is very possible a healthy spot was biopsied, and if you had a blood test too, false negatives are very real. I also have autoimmune thyroiditis which was diagnosed 8 years before the celiac, and they are strongly correlated one to another. IE, it is recommended if you have thyroiditis, you should also get checked for celiac. I don't know which one came first though, if the celiac 'leaky gut' thing somehow triggers another autoimmune response or the other way around? I am still pretty new to all this...

Melie

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


Aerin328 Apprentice
Aerin328
Posted

Elizabeth,

Not sure about the thyroid issue but as Carla articulated an endoscopy can definitely miss celiac disease damage. Go to Enterolab if you need test results: www.enterolab.com . Otherwise try going gluten-free for a few months and the results on your health should be proof enough.

Good luck!

Christian

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Join eNewsletter
    Donate
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):



    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):



  • Recent Activity

    1. suek54
      - suek54 replied to suek54's topic in Dermatitis Herpetiformis
      5

      Awaiting dermatitis herpetiformis confirmation following biopsy

      Thank you all for your advice and the dermatitis herpetiformis article. The latter made me realise I had stopped taking my antihistamine, which I will restart today. The Dapsone has cleared the rash entirely but I still get quite a bit itching, absolutely nothing to see though. I know its notoriously hard to clear and its still relatively early days for me...
    2. trents
      - trents replied to catnapt's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      3

      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      So, essentially all of the nutrition in the food we eat is absorbed through the villous lining of the small bowel. This is the section of the intestinal track that is damaged by celiac disease. This villous lining is composed of billions of finger-like projections that create a huge amount of surface area for absorbing nutrients. For the celiac person, when...
    3. catnapt
      - catnapt replied to catnapt's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      3

      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      thank you so much for your detailed and extremely helpful reply!! I can say with absolute certainty that the less gluten containing products I've eaten over the past several years, the better I've felt. I wasn't avoiding gluten, I was avoiding refined grains (and most processed foods) as well as anything that made me feel bad when I ate it. It's the...
    4. trents
      - trents replied to catnapt's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      3

      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      Welcome, @catnapt! The most recent guidelines are the daily consumption of a minimum of 10g of gluten (about the amount found in 4-6 slices of wheat bread) for a minimum of two weeks. But if possible stretching that out even more would enhance the chances of getting valid test results. These guidelines are for those who have been eating gluten free for...
    5. catnapt
      - catnapt posted a topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      3

      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      after several years of issues with a para-gland issue, my endo has decided it's a good idea for me to be tested for celiac disease. I am 70 yrs old and stunned to learn that you can get celiac this late in life. I have just gradually stopped eating most foods that contain gluten over the past several years- they just make me feel ill- although I...
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      133,257
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    KariNoMoreGluten
    Newest Member
    KariNoMoreGluten
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.6k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):

  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online

  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • suek54
      Awaiting dermatitis herpetiformis confirmation following biopsy

      By suek54 · Posted

      Thank you all for your advice and the dermatitis herpetiformis article. The latter made me realise I had stopped taking my antihistamine, which I will restart today. The Dapsone has cleared the rash entirely but I still get quite a bit itching, absolutely nothing to see though. I know its notoriously hard to clear and its still relatively early days for me.  The iodine issue is very interesting. I do eat quite a bit of salt because I have Addison's disease and sodium retention is an issue. I also have autoimmune hypothyroidism, not sure how a low iodine diet would play into that? Because of my Addison's I am totally steroid dependent, I take steroids 4 x daily and cannot mount any defence against inflammation. I need to increase my meds for that. Now that I know what is wrong I can do just that if Im having a bad day. Life is very sweet, just so damn complicated sometimes! Hey ho, onwards. Thank you again for your advice.  
    • trents
      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      By trents · Posted

      So, essentially all of the nutrition in the food we eat is absorbed through the villous lining of the small bowel. This is the section of the intestinal track that is damaged by celiac disease. This villous lining is composed of billions of finger-like projections that create a huge amount of surface area for absorbing nutrients. For the celiac person, when gluten is consumed, it triggers an autoimmune reaction in this area which, of course, generates inflammation. The antibodies connected with this inflammation is what the celiac blood tests are designed to detect but this inflammation, over time, wears down the finger-like projections of the villous lining. Of course, when this proceeds for an extended period of time, greatly reduces the absorption efficiency of the villous lining and often results in many and various nutrient deficiency-related health issues. Classic examples would be osteoporosis and iron deficiency. But there are many more. Low D3 levels is a well-known celiac-caused nutritional deficiency. So is low B12. All the B vitamins in fact. Magnesium, zinc, etc.  Celiac disease can also cause liver inflammation. You mention elevated ALP levels. Elevated liver enzymes over a period of 13 years was what led to my celiac diagnosis. Within three months of going gluten free my liver enzymes normalized. I had elevated AST and ALT. The development of sensitivities to other food proteins is very common in the celiac population. Most common cross reactive foods are dairy and oats but eggs, soy and corn are also relatively common offenders. Lactose intolerance is also common in the celiac population because of damage to the SB lining.  Eggs when they are scrambled or fried give me a gut ache. But when I poach them, they do not. The steam and heat of poaching causes a hydrolysis process that alters the protein in the egg. They don't bother me in baked goods either so I assume the same process is at work. I bought a plastic poacher on Amazon to make poaching very easy. All this to say that many of the issues you describe could be caused by celiac disease. 
    • catnapt
      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      By catnapt · Posted

      thank you so much for your detailed and extremely helpful reply!! I can say with absolute certainty that the less gluten containing products I've eaten over the past several years, the better I've felt.   I wasn't avoiding gluten, I was avoiding refined grains (and most processed foods) as well as anything that made me feel bad when I ate it. It's the same reason I gave up dairy and eggs- they make me feel ill.  I do have a bit of a sugar addiction lol so a lot of times I wasn't sure if it was the refined grains that I was eating - or the sugar. So from time to time I might have a cookie or something but I've learned how to make wonderful cookies and golden brownies with BEANS!! and no refined sugar - I use date paste instead. Pizza made me so ill- but I thought it was probably the cheese. I gave up pizza and haven't missed it. the one time I tried a slice I felt so bad I knew I'd never touch it again. I stopped eating wheat pasta at least 3 yrs ago- just didn't feel well after eating it. I tried chick pea pasta and a few others and discovered I like the brown rice pasta. I still don't eat a lot of pasta but it's nice for a change when I want something easy. TBH over the years I've wondered sometimes if I might be gluten intolerant but really believed it was not possible for me to have celiac disease. NOW I need to know for sure- because I'm in the middle of a long process of trying to find out why I have a high parathyroid level (NOT the thyroid- but rather the 4 glands that control the calcium balance in your body) I have had a hard time getting my vit D level up, my serum calcium has run on the low side of normal for many years... and now I am losing calcium from my bones and excreting it in my urine (some sort of renal calcium leak) Also have a high ALP since 2014. And now rapidly worsening bone density.  I still do not have a firm diagnosis. Could be secondary HPT (but secondary to what? we need to know) It could be early primary HPT. I am spilling calcium in my urine but is that caused by the high parathyroid hormone or is it the reason my PTH is high>? there are multiple feedback loops for this condition.    so I will keep eating the bread and some wheat germ that does not seem to bother me too much (it hasn't got enough gluten to use just wheat germ)    but I'm curious- if you don't have a strong reaction to a product- like me and wheat germ- does that mean it's ok to eat or is it still causing harm even if you don't have any obvious symptoms? I guess what you are saying about silent celiac makes it likely that you can have no symptoms and still have the harm... but geez! you'd think they'd come up with a way to test for this that didn't require you to consume something that makes you sick! I worry about the complications I've been reading about- different kinds of cancers etc. also wondering- are there degrees of celiac disease?  is there any correlation between symptoms and the amnt of damage to your intestines? I also need a firm diagnosis because I have an identical twin sister ... so if I have celiac, she has it too- or at least the genetic make up for having it. I did have a VERY major stress to my body in 2014-2016 time frame .. lost 50lbs in a short period of time and had severe symptoms from acute protracted withdrawal off an SSRI drug (that I'd been given an unethically high dose of, by a dr who has since lost his license)  Going off the drug was a good thing and in many ways my health improved dramatically- just losing 50lbs was helpful but I also went  off almost a dozen different medications, totally changed my diet and have been doing pretty well except for the past 3-4 yrs when the symptoms related to the parathyroid issue cropped up. It is likely that I had low vit D for some time and that caused me a lot of symptoms. The endo now tells me that low vit D can be caused by celiac disease so I need to know for sure! thank you for all that great and useful information!!! 
    • trents
      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      By trents · Posted

      Welcome, @catnapt! The most recent guidelines are the daily consumption of a minimum of 10g of gluten (about the amount found in 4-6 slices of wheat bread) for a minimum of two weeks. But if possible stretching that out even more would enhance the chances of getting valid test results. These guidelines are for those who have been eating gluten free for a significant amount of time. It's called the "gluten challenge".  Yes, you can develop celiac disease at any stage of life. There is a genetic component but also a stress trigger that is needed to activate the celiac genes. About 30-40% of the general population possesses the genetic potential to develop celiac disease but only about 1% of the general population actually develop celiac disease. For most with the potential, the triggering stress event doesn't happen. It can be many things but often it is a viral infection. Having said that, it is also the case that many, many people who eventually are diagnosed with celiac disease probably experienced the actual onset years before. Many celiacs are of the "silent" type, meaning that symptoms are largely missing or very minor and get overlooked until damage to the small bowel lining becomes advanced or they develop iron deficiency anemia or some other medical problem associated with celiac disease. Many, many are never diagnosed or are diagnosed later in life because they did not experience classic symptoms. And many physicians are only looking for classic symptoms. We now know that there are over 200 symptoms/medical problems associated with celiac disease but many docs are only looking for things like boating, gas, diarrhea. I certainly understand your concerns about not wanting to damage your body by taking on a gluten challenge. Your other option is to totally commit to gluten free eating and see if your symptoms improve. It can take two years or more for complete healing of the small bowel lining once going gluten free but usually people experience significant improvement well before then. If their is significant improvement in your symptoms when going seriously gluten free, then you likely have your answer. You would either have celiac disease or NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity).
    • catnapt
      how much gluten do I need to eat before blood tests?

      By catnapt · Posted

      after several years of issues with a para-gland issue, my endo has decided it's a good idea for me to be tested for celiac disease. I am 70 yrs old and stunned to learn that you can get celiac this late in life. I have just gradually stopped eating most foods that contain gluten over the past several years- they just make me feel ill- although I attributed it to other things like bread spiking blood sugar- or to the things I ate *with* the bread or crackers etc   I went to a party in Nov and ate a LOT of a vegan roast made with vital wheat gluten- as well as stuffing, rolls and pie crust... and OMG I was so sick! the pain, the bloating, the gas, the nausea... I didn't think it would ever end (but it did) and I was ready to go the ER but it finally subsided.   I mentioned this to my endo and now she wants me to be tested for celiac after 2 weeks of being on gluten foods. She has kind of flip flopped on how much gluten I should eat, telling me that if the symptoms are severe I can stop. I am eating 2-3 thin slices of bread per day (or english muffins) and wow- it does make me feel awful. But not as bad as when I ate that massive amnt of vital wheat gluten. so I will continue on if I have to... but what bothers me is - if it IS celiac, it seems stupid for lack of a better word, to intentionally cause more damage to my body... but I am also worried, on the other hand, that this is not a long enough challenge to make the blood work results valid.   can you give me any insight into this please?   thank you
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.