Candida Misery

[Patty55]

On the subject of Candida, I have a question for anyone who has tried probiotics such as Threelac and Theralac. I usually find out my answers just reading this forum, but I a have been stuck at this point for most of the past year. I have been gluten free for almost three years, but had to take Prednisone for a month in March and soon after deduced it was Candida. I had been having Leaky Gut symptoms the year before after a long bout of antibiotics and found probiotics worked.

So after resorting to the forum I took Threelac for two months and was up to 5 packs a day and things seemed to be getting worse, not better. I switched to Theralac about three weeks ago and am not sure if I should hit this hard and heavy for a few weeks or just maintain a daily dose. I am taking 5 capsules a day. I understand there is no worry of overdose except for possible diarrhea. I would like to just kill this thing off, since it is also becoming expensive. I am following the candida diet as much as possible. I am getting sick of meat and veggies but keep finding out the hard way that I can't stray to anything that causes fermentation.

Any idea how long a good, dug-in case of candida takes to resolve with this product?

Thanks for any help!

Patti

[tom]

The probiotics are good but aren't a candida killer.

It's tough to kill 'em all, but most over-the-counter candida formulas will kill some %.

You'll know it's working when you get the die-off reaction, or herx, short for herxheimer, where you feel like you have the flu from the toxins released when the yeasty-beasts die.

And of course, gotta quit "finding out the hard way" w/ the sweet or fermented etc etc foods.

Good luck

[wilem008]

Hi Patti!

Can I ask...before realising you had Candida, what symptoms were you getting?

Ive been gluten-free since May and even when im super strict with it, I find I still have problems: constipation, fatigue, stomach cramps, nausea, feels like my throat is swollen, lower back pain, headaches etc....

I think I may have a Candida problem (white coating on tongue, positive result when I did the 'spit test') but im relucant to try any probiotics and especially reluctant to try the Candida diet so close to christmas!

Im hesitant...what if I try this and it STILL doesnt work? Doctors dont really know what to do with me...I think they think its "all in my head"! hmmm....

Best of luck with your health!

[Patty55]

Hi Wilem!

Sorry to hear you're floundering too!

It seems being gluten intolerant does open us up to gut dysbiosis, which is still a new term for me to figure out. I had Leaky Gut down pretty well though. I noticed I reacted to A LOT of foods that did not have gluten but made me feel like I had been glutened. Searched down my own throat issues which were mainly difficulty swallowing and hoarseness and found it can be a soy intolerance. Then lactose, which is more easy to ID- you pretty much can't leave the house. Fatigues, headaches, dizziness, stomach cramps and finally my hair started REALLY falling out and that made me look for something quick! It also is an effect of Leaky Gut and Candida. The first probiotic I tried resolved that problem and it hasn't come back since I've been staying on one probiotice or another.

But it's getting pretty expensive so I'm now researching the Candida diet but I'm getting confused. It could take me til Christmas just to figure out what I can and can't eat! Gluten intolerance was so simple compared to this!

What if you try this and it doesn't work? It seems to take a long time so you won't know for a while anyway. And doctors don't believe anyone has systemic yeast. It isn't possible. Period. It's not in your head. But it's definitely not in their's either. They need to experience this themselves (I wish).

Good luck with your efforts! If you know a good source for descrambling the candida diet I'm interested!

Patti

Hi Patti!

Can I ask...before realising you had Candida, what symptoms were you getting?

Ive been gluten-free since May and even when im super strict with it, I find I still have problems: constipation, fatigue, stomach cramps, nausea, feels like my throat is swollen, lower back pain, headaches etc....

I think I may have a Candida problem (white coating on tongue, positive result when I did the 'spit test') but im relucant to try any probiotics and especially reluctant to try the Candida diet so close to christmas!

Im hesitant...what if I try this and it STILL doesnt work? Doctors dont really know what to do with me...I think they think its "all in my head"! hmmm....

Best of luck with your health!

[julirama723]

Have you added any anti-fungals?

Getting rid of candida needs a 3-part treatment: yeast/sugar-free diet (to stop further growth), anti-fungals (to kill what's there), and pro-biotics (to replace "good" bacteria). I really think it's important to use all three. If you don't get rid of the yeast first, it's worthless to take probiotics.

There are many anti-fungals out there, and it's usually suggested that they be taken for at least 3 months. There are prescription anti-fungals like Nystatin or Diflucan, but there are also many natural anti-fungals that work just as well. Look for oil of oregano (at least 70% carvacrol) sold in a little eyedropper bottle. Add a few drops to a glass of water. It's VERY pungeant and spicy, but it works! (You can also use this to boost the immune system when you're coming down with something.) Garlic oil is also a great supplement. It's sold in gel capsule form, so no worries about bad breath. Raw garlic and raw onion are natural anti-fungals, so add them to salads and salsa. Caprylic acid is another popular one, and this is naturally found in coconut oil, but you can also buy supplements.

I did not start probiotics right away, I think I waited a week or so. I began anti-fungals first. After a while, I would take my anti-fungals in the morning and my probiotics at night. (I read somewhere that it's not as effective to take them together, but of course, I can't remember where I read it...)

Do the spit test every couple of weeks to check your progress.

I did a yeast-free diet for quite a few months last year--it was VERY tough, but I must say that it worked. My yeast symptoms were: bloating, lethargy, angular chelitis, athlete's foot, positive spit test, and I actually smelled sort of "yeasty" when I would be sweaty from exercise.

[RiceGuy]

What worked for me was caprylic acid capsules. I didn't avoid complex carbs, but I did avoid all sugars, vinegars, yeasts, and fruits. I could feel it working the first day or two, and as the weeks went by it was like a miracle. I think I only used two bottles of the capsules, which if memory serves were 100 caps each.

I waited several months before trying a little fruit, and kept it to maybe one piece per week at most. I don't know how much would have been tolerated, but I wasn't about to take any chances.

Anyway, here's one brand of Open Original Shared Link which is gluten-free. Another product which should work is Open Original Shared Link.

These things actually kill the yeasties, which should be more effective than probiotics alone. There are other products out there of course, such as Open Original Shared Link. I don't know how effective it is, as I never had to try.

[Patty55]

Thank you for so much information. I was not aware of the importance of all parts to treat this. No wonder it's taking me so long! My primary refuses to order antifungals like Diflucan. But I have been on Oil of Oregano capsules for at least 6 months. Do they suffice?

I will certainly try the caprylic acid. At least I can cut back on the Probiotics that are bleeding my wallet dry. Florastor appears to have yeast in it?? Is that ok?

Interesting to know I shouldn't take the killers and the probiotics together. I have similar symptoms when ingesting yeast- bloating and

lethargy, plus facial swelling. I did notice an immediate change after trying the SCD for several days. I am wondering about a rather annoying and constant stomach ache that I'm hoping is related to Herxheimer's.

Thanks again for all the sites!

[AliB]

The SCD works because it removes the carbs and sugar that feeds the yeast. Unless we change the environment within the body, we will not get any lasting relief.

Things like Diflucan and Nystatin will only work on a temporary basis and may end up with the bacteria becoming resistant to any further treatment. Use things like Caprylic Acid but also make your body as the host unwelcome for the beasties.

Some say to remove fat from the diet to control Candida, but interestingly Caprylic Acid is derived from Coconut which is naturally quite high in good saturated fat - it is also a natural antifungal, possibly because of the Caprylic Acid, so it probably depends on the type of fat we consume. Not all fats are the same. I make my own coconut milk and it is delicious. Who needs dairy...........?

Eating plenty of fresh raw vegetables is good too. They do not contain substances that will encourage the Candida and are full of nutrients and live enzymes to aid digestion. I am enjoying a green smoothie (or two) during the day - along with a cup of water I add a banana, apple, some grapes, some cucumber, handful of salad greens, carrot - whatever I fancy.

It is too cold here to enjoy salad but that way I am getting my greens in a glass (or two) and it is lovely. Easy on the digestion and gives me more energy - something I sorely lack. So nice to not have the backache too that often accompanies my food digestion. Some prefer to juice it but I like the thick smoothie.

An acidic body encourages the Candida. Get the body back to its more natural slightly alkaline state and the Candida will go away. I would like to go high-raw if poss but am taking it slowly at the moment - don't want to throw my body into a panic!

[AliB]

Wondering about the stomach ache - have you been tested for Helicobacter? I do wonder when we change the diet whether it gets the 'ump and starts rebelling, and it may be that that is causing stomach discomfort.

My stomach discomfort seems to be at the front so I have taken to taking some probios a few minutes before I lay down at night then turning on my front to let them get at the soreness - don't know if it is my imagination but it does seem to be easier. I was tested for Helicobacter but I have read that the blood test is not always reliable and can present with a false negative result. Apparently the breath test is more reliable. Perhaps I should have asked for that!

I do wonder too whether it depends on where the Helicobacter is in the gut or the body as to whether they can even pick it up on the tests.

Can hurt to request a test, if you haven't tried that one. Apparently in some tests that were done on some Celiacs - don't know how many, but at least 30% of them presented with the little beggars. It is reckoned that up to 50% of the population could have them.

[Patty55]

Interesting that you thought of H. Pylori. My pain is epigastric, which is new. Have always had lower abdominal pan since this all started, but this is also only since taking the Theralac. I guess I will see if it progresses, since I have cut down on the probiotics and ordered the Caprylic Acid. This is great advice.

I wish I could enjoy as much raw fruit with the vegetables but am watching all the sugar. It appears that there are few fruits on the SCD list. Also, how do you go about making your own Coconut milk? I have only had it visiting other countries, but it was delicious.

Wondering about the stomach ache - have you been tested for Helicobacter? I do wonder when we change the diet whether it gets the 'ump and starts rebelling, and it may be that that is causing stomach discomfort.

My stomach discomfort seems to be at the front so I have taken to taking some probios a few minutes before I lay down at night then turning on my front to let them get at the soreness - don't know if it is my imagination but it does seem to be easier. I was tested for Helicobacter but I have read that the blood test is not always reliable and can present with a false negative result. Apparently the breath test is more reliable. Perhaps I should have asked for that!

I do wonder too whether it depends on where the Helicobacter is in the gut or the body as to whether they can even pick it up on the tests.

Can hurt to request a test, if you haven't tried that one. Apparently in some tests that were done on some Celiacs - don't know how many, but at least 30% of them presented with the little beggars. It is reckoned that up to 50% of the population could have them.

[RiceGuy]

You can use coconut oil in place of butter/margarine, and you can even make mayonnaise with it. Add it to smoothies, cook and bake with it too. Fabulous on everything I've ever tried it on.

Another thing which can help you enjoy foods which ordinarily get some sweetener, is to use Open Original Shared Link. It is a natural extract which is powerfully sweet, but has no sugars, carbs, or calories, and is zero on the glycemic index. I prefer the pure powder, which has no other ingredients of any kind. Most have fillers and such. If you are accustomed to using sugar, Stevia might take a little time to get used to, as it is so sweet. Just a tiny bit is all it takes for most things.

[RiceGuy]

Florastor appears to have yeast in it?? Is that ok?

Yes, it does. Apparently, it is supposed to kill the candida, then die in about 7 days or something like that. As I said, I haven't tried it. It is just one of several which I've heard about. Can't blame you for questioning it. I'd be hesitant too.

[AliB]

When I can get decent fresh coconuts!!??? I have had to take the last three lots back to Tesco as they were nasty.

Anyway, if you can get decent ones - don't get them if the eyes look black as they may be contaminated with mould - pierce the soft eye and one of the harder ones if poss and make a hole in the soft one. Tip up over a cup to drain.

When it has emptied, put the coconut in a fairly strong plastic bag and have a great time smashing it on a hard surface. When it is in pieces, use a sharp, but not pointed knife to carefully cut and prise sections off the shell. You can carefully peel off the brown inner skin, but I don't bother.

Put the pieces of flesh in to a blender with a good two large cups of hot, not boiling water and whizz for 2 to 3 minutes.

Put a sieve over a deepish bowl and place some fine gauze - a jelly bag or muslin - over the strainer and pour the flesh and liquid through into the strainer. Let it drain for a few minutes then pick up the corners of the bag and give the pulp a good squeeze. If you want coconut cream give it a good hard mash and squeeze it as dry as possible, or if you want milk squeeze it dryish then replace it in the blender with another 2 good cups of hot water and repeat again, squeezing thoroughly at the end.

I don't, as some methods suggest, throw the pulp away - I spread it out on a baking sheet and dry it for an hour or so in a gentle oven then use it to make muffins or SCD legal goodies. The brown skin chops down so fine with the pulp that it doesn't seem worth cutting it off, so I don't.

I store my milk in a large lidded pitcher in the fridge - it will keep for about 3 or 4 days. It will separate into the thick layer on the top and the thinner at the bottom - you can either just give it a swish to mix it back in or use the cream off the top as you wish.

One coconut will make at least a liter of milk so it is very cost effective albeit time-consuming, but I much prefer it fresh. Some commercial coconut milk and creams have been hydrogenated and I am not sure that is so good - there have been suggestions that it can push the cholesterol up, which fresh coconut doesn't do. As they don't tell you on the wrapper if that has been done you have no real way of telling - if someone knows how to or what to look for as an indicator I would love to know!

I have served coconut cream with SCD desserts and also served it mixed with drained thick yogurt - it is scrumptious. The thick cream, although I have not tried doing it, can apparently also be whipped like dairy cream.

Just in case you are not sure about the freshness of the coconut there are three things to check for once opened. The coconut water will not taste very nice and certainly not of coconut, if the brown inner skin falls off and there are 'bald' patches it is on its way out, also if the inner surface of the coconut feels slimy and there is yellowy green or browny reddish staining on the inner surface that is another indication of nasty bacterial activity.

If the flesh is white and smooth but not slimy, if it has that lovely coconutty aroma and the brown inner skin is adhered tightly to the flesh then it is fine, but the first thing you get to is the coconut water - if it tastes sweet and fresh and coconutty you are on to a winner!

I have just had a right moan at Tesco as I am getting fed up with them now.

The fruit I have in the smoothie is the only fruit I am having and I seem to be ok with that. The sugar in fruit is a monosaccharide that the body can utilise more efficiently than other forms.

Fructose/glucose as a sugar source should be avoided but the fructose in fruit, due to its natural unprocessed nature and because it is mixed with many other beneficial elements within the fruit should not be anything like as problematic, within reason.

[RiceGuy]

Due to the cost of both fresh coconuts, and good quality coconut oil, I've resorted to finely shredded coconut. Look for the kind without sulfur dioxide or other preservatives. The brand "Let's Do Organic" is usually pretty good as far as shredded coconut goes. This is not as good as coconut should really be, but I figure it's better than nothing. In the blender it usually gets pulverized well enough for me. I use it in all sorts of things.

Now, if you want truly incredible coconut oil, look no further than Open Original Shared Link.

[curlyfries]

When I can get decent fresh coconuts!!??? I have had to take the last three lots back to Tesco as they were nasty.

I know!!!!! I've had to return several, myself....to Kroger, and one to Marsh. I'm hesitant to buy them anymore.

[Patty55]

These are totally new and interesting ideas for me to try. Don't know if I can handle all that coconut handling, but it sure sounds good. Especially since it's the only really alkaline food substance I've hearad mentioned.

Thanks for all tha directions and shortcuts! I'm looking forward to trying Coconut milk and organic coconut. I'm kind of curious what you add blenderized coconut to exactly.

quote name='RiceGuy' date='Dec 8 2008, 02:39 PM' post='490837']

Due to the cost of both fresh coconuts, and good quality coconut oil, I've resorted to finely shredded coconut. Look for the kind without sulfur dioxide or other preservatives. The brand "Let's Do Organic" is usually pretty good as far as shredded coconut goes. This is not as good as coconut should really be, but I figure it's better than nothing. In the blender it usually gets pulverized well enough for me. I use it in all sorts of things.

Now, if you want truly incredible coconut oil, look no further than Open Original Shared Link.

[RiceGuy]

I'm kind of curious what you add blenderized coconut to exactly.

Anything I want

Seriously, I'll put it in all sort of stuff, from smoothies to casseroles, to hot cereal, to pies. Works great in cookies too. You can even make a spread to use like cream cheese.

[Patty55]

Well I'll have to give it a try! Anything sounds good at this point after an eternity of vegetables and meat.

Just got started on my first bottle of caprylic, thanks. I had to completely shut down on the probiotics. Got quite a stomach ache. I will hold off as you said. So I am in for a few more months of this?

Anything I want

Seriously, I'll put it in all sort of stuff, from smoothies to casseroles, to hot cereal, to pies. Works great in cookies too. You can even make a spread to use like cream cheese.