Wild Fermented Foods Health Benefits

[gary'sgirl]

Well perhaps we aren't so different. The SCD did not work for me either. I actually got worse in that sleeping became impossible and my itching got worse. Turns out I have salicylate intolerance, and all that zucchini, sunflower seeds etc. was the worst. I now know why honey is so bad--too many salicylates for me.

Ironically now it seems I need to be on a low animal fat diet because my liver and gall bladder couldn't handle all the fat from the meat I had doing the SCD--and then later continued with the meat at still relatively high levels (plus the addition of eggs--I could not tolerate before) with my new low salicylate diet. Even though I always have eaten lots of veggies despite these new limitations, the animal fat in the meat was still too much for me given the poor stressed state of my villi--being overwhelmed it seems by eating fatty foods in whatever guise since my villi seem to be way flattened from years and years not knowing I was celiac.

I actually do better with brown rice in my diet rather than not. And now due to stress in the liver and gb I am eating a lacto vegetarian die--though no nuts, regular milk or cheese etc. and very little egg.

Fortunately now I can handle eating a few easy to digest and well soaked and cooked beans (azuki and black eyed peas) so I have at least some protein in my diet. I can have some oily type fish too, but don't want to have too much given how much heavy metal etc. it has in general. I still have a few vegetables I can still eat--though many I can't due to medium to high salicylates.

I am positively loving the fact I can now eat as many peeled golden delicious apples and peeled ripe pears as I want (well nearly). Previously I could not tolerate eating any fruit at all for years.

So I try to make my food as interesting and varied as I can within its considerable limits. And I am slowly improving.

I am meanwhile figuring out how to make things with brown rice flour we mill ourselves. I love this treat I have that uses maple syrup (not much but enough to taste), brown rice flour and cooked brown rice, saff. oil (I don't tolerate others due to the high salicylate content of almost all oils), and either some pureed or cooked yam or acorn squash, and peeled chopped ripe pear and peeled chopped golden delicious apple with a little yogurt thrown in and one or two eggs. Yum--especially with some yogurt on top! It lasts for a week for the two of us. My bf actually prefers it to his chocolate chip cookies, but then part of that is due to the fact the cookies make him feel a little off.

So its been a slow climb. In the midst of it all while I was on SCD for 10 months I was stressed due to work and had such a terrible rash in my ears and nethers that I went to the Emergency Clinic, fearing I had an infection deep in my ears. They gave me this awful antibiotic that nearly killed me. After a week of taking it, I had shooting D every half hour. After that I ate 24 hour yogurt with a vengeance, made tons of olive leaf tea to kill whatever infection I figured I had, and continued on the SCD for another year.

But as implied, I was limping. Of course the "itchy b%$@#ies"were still there, worse than ever. I even got plantar warts. Of course the salicylate stuff I put on it just made it worse. It went entirely away when I taped garlic to it.. But the insomnia began to rage--especially when i put in a wonderful garden at my boyfriend's house with lots and lots of tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and basil/oregano/thyme etc. and zucchinis and red chard and kale etc.

Sleep was something I could dream about while awake. Jerk jerk myoclonus big time ad infinitum compounded by the dreadful itchy b%$@#ies made actually worse. I was otherwise happy, but man o man.

Now fortunately the itchies have greatly reduced, as has the insomnia,/twitching but not completely. Which is why I am enthusiastic about these soured live foods. I figure they will either help me or be way too much--if so, I will have to start seriously going after the amine connection which probably would mean eating a lot less of these wonderful fermented foods.. I am hoping by taking a gradual careful approach however, I can lead my body to being able to handle and then love at least some of these things.

Right now though I think the Universe is having a big joke on me with this headache. Though truth be told its starting to lift so maybe I can get to bed soon anyway and have a good sleep.

But yes tonight I am up late. I made the mistake of trying to save a large batch of yogurt. And ended up eating some of it early this afternoon. The milk was too hot the previous night and for once the culture thus did not take. The next morning I put in fresh culture into the warm milk. It came out weird (as in curdled) but I still ate some of it this afternoon. It tasted fine, but what a mistake! I have a terrible headache as a result. Am going to have to pour it all out and start over...

More of a response than you bargained for, eh? I think despite all this trouble I have experienced trying to get well, my Leo peeks out now and then...

I hope through this all you find out all of your bodies little quirks and finally feel healthy and well, with very little sick day. Hopefully you won't find any more trouble foods.

[gary'sgirl]

I have some SCD perspective too, though I was on full GAPS. I was on it a few months but all the amines from bone broth and fermented food seem to be giving me trouble. I did eat a little rice. Rice a couple times a week seems optimal.

I'm trying Failsafe elimination diet now, to see if the issue is food chemicals. The diet is pretty restricted and I'm eating some rice and gluten-free breads. I'm tired, my asthma is back, I have dark circles under my eyes, and I'm constipated. There is something really bad for me with the starches and grains and I can't wait to challenge salicylates in a week and a half so I have enough foods to go back to a low-starch diet. (I am suspecting my problems are amines, not salicylates.) The fats are great for me because I don't get low blood sugar eating that way.

So, will you stay on a modified GAPS diet once you find out if you are sensitive to amines or salicylates?

[gary'sgirl]

Hi Skylark. Our bodies seem to be so very particular. The deal is to figure out what that particularity is. One size does not fit all. Maybe just going off the bone broth and fermented foods as well as most of the grains and you will feel fine. Good luck in any case with figuring out the meanie here.

I hope too your migraine went away. Mine is still hanging out, but not so bad as last night. I really do think the yogurt I made this last time went off,which then triggered the migraine, especially after I had some sauerkraut....

I hope meanwhile I am not terribly amine sensitive, however I do think its possible I am at least partly that way. Often people with salicylate sensitivity are also amine sensitive. If I end up having to give up sauerkraut and miso, I won't be happy about it, however I can live with it if necessary. I am jazzed about the taste, however these frequent migraines I've had recently are not something I want to continue to live with... It is just possible that the sauerkraut and not CC to gluten has triggered a bunch of these headaches. I don't want to face that possibility, however if it is the case I will face it nevertheless. For now I am staying off the miso and sauerkraut and see what happens next week when I reintroduce them.

And if it turns out that I am really amine sensitive, its better to know it than not. My goal is to feel better and be less restrictive socially for one thing. Going around being seemingly reactive to everything just from my environment is not my idea of how I want to be. So this could possibly be a gift in disguise.

So thank you for your input here. It gives me some real food for thought (lol!).

Yolo, you probably already know about this, but just in case you don't, I wanted to mention that all the symptoms you mentioned from eating the fermented foods can also be symptoms of the bad bacteria dying off, and detoxing.

I forget about that sometimes when I am having symptoms, so I just wanted to mention it.

[Skylark]

Yolo, you probably already know about this, but just in case you don't, I wanted to mention that all the symptoms you mentioned from eating the fermented foods can also be symptoms of the bad bacteria dying off, and detoxing.

I forget about that sometimes when I am having symptoms, so I just wanted to mention it.

There are a lot of people (like me) who got suckered into ignoring amine/salicylate reactions as "detox". I am not having so-called detox reactions from the very pure VSL#3 despite the very high bacterial count. I think perhaps detox reactions from probiotics are not as common as the alternative health literature would have us believe.

[CR5442]

I have some SCD perspective too, though I was on full GAPS. I was on it a few months but all the amines from bone broth and fermented food seem to be giving me trouble. I did eat a little rice. Rice a couple times a week seems optimal.

I'm trying Failsafe elimination diet now, to see if the issue is food chemicals. The diet is pretty restricted and I'm eating some rice and gluten-free breads. I'm tired, my asthma is back, I have dark circles under my eyes, and I'm constipated. There is something really bad for me with the starches and grains and I can't wait to challenge salicylates in a week and a half so I have enough foods to go back to a low-starch diet. (I am suspecting my problems are amines, not salicylates.) The fats are great for me because I don't get low blood sugar eating that way.

Hey Skylark. I so feel for you on the whole food elimination, type of diet thing. It is exhausting just thinking about food. Sometimes it can make one feel quite averse to even going to the kitchen! Interesting about your issue with grains/gluten-free bread etc. I have a similar problem. Like you once or twice a week is about enough. I feel like when I eat them just once or twice they give my stomach a bit of comfort (lining), but any more than that and I get bloated, draw water on board and feel generally sluggish.

I'm wondering about the Amine/Salicylates for me too. Let me know how you get on. Interestingly we had a stomach bug a couple of weeks back and I think my body aches were from low potassium (when I had bloods done a year ago even though I was supplementing potassium the level was still boardline low). How are your levels? Must try some of Bea's fermented foods - though honestly right now cooking of any kind requires the motivation of a mammoth for me!

[Skylark]

Thanks for the kind words. As far as elimination, Failsafe is relatively easy. I'm fond of lentils and rice, and the permitted veggies include green beans and brussels sprouts. I really just want to feel better. I don't care what it takes.

I've never had low potassium bloodwork.

As for the fermented foods, two good-sized heads of cabbage will make four quarts of sauerkraut. You only have to come up with energy on one afternoon and you're good to go for quite a while.

[gary'sgirl]

There are a lot of people (like me) who got suckered into ignoring amine/salicylate reactions as "detox". I am not having so-called detox reactions from the very pure VSL#3 despite the very high bacterial count. I think perhaps detox reactions from probiotics are not as common as the alternative health literature would have us believe.

Skylark,

Your thoughts about the detoxing from probiotics are interesting. I never noticed any detox reactions to probiotic supplements that I took either - even though they were a very high bacteria count. I have however experience "detox" or "die off" from real probiotic foods and drinks.

When I first started drinking the Water Kefir, if I drank more than just a small cup at a time I would feel extra fatigued and sweat more, as well as some other symptoms like head aches etc... Now however, I have worked up to being able to have a full glass a couple of times a day and I rarely have any of those symptoms, so I know that it wasn't a sensitivity to the fermented drink. (I wondered for a little while though, whether I would be able to actually tolerate it)

I'm interested to know how you found out you had a problem with amines? I tried reading a little about salicylates to try to understand it better, but I'm a bit confused about it. I like to look into these different things that other celiacs are having problems with in case it's a piece of the puzzle that I haven't yet found.

[YoloGx]

Dear Gary's Girl and Skylark (and hi to Caroline!),

All I know is I have been having a very rough time.

My headache came back in spades yesterday afternoon after I just had some regular no fat Brown Cow yogurt from the store. It could be my intestinal tract is all stirred up so it is being very particular and reactive right now. It seemed like these fermented foods were helping me previously. I hate to think I have to go off them.

So honestly I don't really know what all is going on. It could just be a case of hypersensitivity brought on by having the wrong bacteria in the yogurt I made that went off and ate a bit of. Or it could be finally my body is telling me layoff the amines.

I don't know. For a while I have to assume its the amines. I can't go around with awful migraines all the time. This is not my idea of living.

I will be taking stool samples starting on Monday to send out to a lab. Maybe that will help.

I don't think there is a test to check out amines except trial and error.

I put my bean soup in small containers and froze them in the freezer. I intend not to eat food that sits out longer than 2 days more or less in case the amines really are a big problem I wasn't aware of. What a bother! However if it helps me feel better I know I can do it and will. For now it is an experiment.

When I feel a lot stronger I will slowly re-introduce yogurt and sauerkraut and miso. Hopefully I will get the results of the tests back sooner than that however just to see what all is percolating down there.

That I have had some pretty nasty antibiotics that have not been so great for my long term health that could have really set up some bad stuff in my intestines is true. I am hoping that is "all" it is and that I thus will be able to successfully handle eating home made sauerkraut and yogurt etc. again and have it actually be good for me.

However given all I have gone through recently I don't want to delude myself either. My eldest sister after all is not only gluten and salicylate sensitive but also amine sensitive too. So it could be a family trait. One I don't want to acknowledge, but one I will if necessary.

I hope my young naturopath can help me determine what is what after we get the results of the tests. She will also be doidng a blood test to check my liver levels and heavy metals.

So Skylark, maybe we are in this at roughly the same time, eh? How ironic I got onto this fermented food thread here now. Maybe it was a bit premature??

However the fermented foods do seem to be really helping both my boyfriend and my co-worker Graeme. Graeme by the way seems to have the signs of prescient RA--which is what his mother had. For RA sufferers the state of the gut is key to their health and often goats milk, lots of veggies with low animal fats and lots of fermented foods and some fish and staying off all gluten are very important dietary factors for routing out their symptoms.

I'll let you all know if he improves or not. Am crossing my fingers that he will get better rather than worse. At least he doesn't have any nodules. But walking often is difficult for him on a bad day.

For now its beans and more beans and a bit of fish for me these days with the very occasional egg.

I hope to soon tolerate a bit of chicken too.

Not much of an interesting diet, but I can live on it. I am glad that I can tolerate brown rice quite well these days. As far as regular bread goes, I have not tolerated it for some time.I think its the yeast. Yet another sign of amine sensitivity??

Tonight I will be reading some of my poetry at an event here honoring the "Femme Fatale" in the San Jose, CA area. It will be good to take my mind off these limitations and feel more alive.

Hope you all have a good weekend too!

[Skylark]

I'm interested to know how you found out you had a problem with amines? I tried reading a little about salicylates to try to understand it better, but I'm a bit confused about it. I like to look into these different things that other celiacs are having problems with in case it's a piece of the puzzle that I haven't yet found.

I'm still testing, but I started noticing felt a lot worse a day or two after eating classic migraine trigger foods like aged cheese, red wine, chicken livers, tomato sauce, and miso. I picked it up with a food diary. Those foods are very high in various amines like tyramine or natural MSG.

Sorry to hear you're so miserable, Yolo. I woke up with a dratted cold so I'm not a happy camper either.

[YoloGx]

For those that want to learn more about salicylate and amine sensitivity check out the salicylate sensitivity forum. Use the search feature to follow topics of interest. The food lists are pretty extensive. Its free and fun. Hope of course none of you really need it.

Skylark, I hope your cold goes away soon! Nettle tea is one of the few teas that are good against salicylate sensitivity, so maybe it might help??