gfp

OK, sometimes sarcasm excplains stuff best for me.... its nothing personal... and the poster could be anyone so don't be offended..Im trying to write this like a FDA official saying why

In the article you've sited: Open Original Shared Link

it states:

"Because wheat gluten itself wouldn't cause kidney failure, FDA investigators are examining other ingredients as possible sources of contamination. Those include heavy metals like cadmium and lead or fungal toxins. Aflatoxin, a corn fungus, sparked a 2005 dog food recall. "

2 things to say here.

The main thing that's bothering me is this:

Why can't there just be an analysis to see what the contaminant is? Don't we have sophisticated technology to determine such things?

Erm, what exactly do you want to analyse for? If you pay we'll find someone to analyse.

And, if so, why doesn't some independent laboratory come in and do testing?

Sure if you wanna pay.... however at the moment what exactly are you going to pay to test for? Heavy metals, fungus or mould?

bacteria? Also is it all contaminated or just some... is it contaminated at source (the supplier) or in production?

Go ahead ... take a cool million and you can screen for everything then when they work out what is is you can pay again to have it quantitively analysed????

Must we constantly rely on the FDA for information? I, for one, have grown a little weary of that particular perspective. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems that some simple tests would be able to show what's going on.

Lots, once again if you are going to pay them .... indeed if you have a million spare the testing lab can easily come up with enough tests to probably find what it is.... presuming its present in the samples we get?

Then again we might waste the million... and find nothing in the samples we have but its your money....

/sarcasm off

In other words the FDA money is your money, its from taxpayers...

Like it or not a lot of tax payers would be pissed if they so the FDA spend a million testing pet food and the results are inconclusive... in perspective its not a lot per person or even per pet owner... but people get awfully upset over where tax $ go....

What is likely to happen is autopsy of the pets ... then try and pin point... is it chemical, biological or what...??

If its bacteria ... cultures take time to grow....

Another thing is what else were the pets eating.... just as an aside... millions of dog owners poision their dogs daily giving them chocolate.. this causes kidney failure... what if the gluten contamination alone isn't responsible and thee dogs had compromised kidney function because their owners were feeding them something like chocolate?

Sorry if you take offense, non is meant... I just think a snotty type FDA cover their ass answer illustrates the problem better than 20 pages of possible links and stuff????

edits:

Just saw Peter's reply. and he's obviously on top of it....

The heavy metal contamination could be one thing... but like he says

though there are some organic toxins that have yet to be ruled out.

and like I say it could be a combination of both....

I wonder what ergot does to dogs?

You would of course have a better understanding of this subject then me but I'm just repeating what I've been told for years. If you live in a cold climate during the winters you don't depend on just your area for fruits and vegetables. I just did a quick reference check on areas and found this:

SELENIUM

The selenium content of our food depends entirely upon the selenium content of the soil where the food was grown. However, nearly a third of the United States and three Canadian Provinces have soil that is seriously selenium deficient. This is unfortunate because selenium is a powerful antioxidant (a substance that prevents tissue damage from oxidization) and therefore is one of the best cancer-blocking agents. Selenium offers important protection against heart disease, as well. In fact, there is evidence that selenium can actually heal already damaged cells.

Additionally, selenium plays an important role in cleansing your body of heavy metal poisoning, such as may occur from exposure to mercury (as in dental fillings) or lead (as in old paint). It does this by speeding up the rate of heavy metal excretion in the urine and feces. Selenium also enhances your immune system in a powerful way and has been found to be very beneficial to chronic allergy patients.

Selenium is not only an effective tool against cancer and heart disease, but is effective in preventing the onset of other chronic degenerative diseases such as premature aging, multiple sclerosis, diabetes and arthritis.

Geographic locations in North America where the soil is low in selenium are Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Western New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Washington, Rhode Island, Oregon, New Jersey, Vermont, the Carolinas, Florida, West Virginia and Connecticut. The Canadian provinces of Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba are also selenium deficient.

I agree you should not rely on selenium suppliments and even be careful on eating to many brazil nuts but one or two aday is a great insurance policy.

Gail

Good find

p.s, the jury seems to be out on cancer and stuff but so long as you are inside the safe area no harm....

The thing I'm trying to stress is this really needs to be checked for pretty much all your trace elements... some of them can be more toxic than others... but their distribution is extremely patchy.... especially iun the US....

The weird thing is you can take the geology of the UK, OR France, OR Germany etc and its about the same diversity as the USA...

We always luaght at everything is "bigger and better" Americans but you have states larger than the UK with essentially one type of geology... In the UK you only need go 30 miles in any direction from anywhere to get significantly different geology..

Anyway, its not a geology compatition.... I would be the only one interested LOL.... but it is worth considering..and bearing in mind. for instance when buying local food or stuff, though Im an organic sorta person in some ways it travels less so you get less soil variety...

What I'm really trying to say is check the soil and where your goods are travelling from before just blindly adding trace elements in any large quantitiy....

I wish there was a simple answer....

Kraft are a perfect example. They say they won't deliberatly hide gluten but they also lied about the effects of tobacco for 50 yrs... since they are the same company... so its like ringing a tobacco copany and asking for advice?

The point is now adays the tobacco companies (hence Kraft, Nabisco and most of the major food companies who are all ownded by tobacco money) will give you a coy answer... one designed to cast doubt... they probably train people specially for these lines on how to say what on what to admit and what not to admit...

Just remember your dealing with the same companies as lied in court, destroyed evidence etc. and spent 50 yrs providing research designed only to cast doubt and burying the research if it looked bad.

This sounds a bit conspiracy theiory like but do you know what companies do for employees who purger themselves in court ?

Go on guess, do they sack em or promote em?

The companies learned a lot I guess, I'm sure the director can hand on heart say he doesn't know of a single product with hidden gluten, what he can't say is he goes to great pains NOT TO LEARN ....

You do not need to believe ME .... you can satisfy yourself that these companies are eitherlying or not providing the information ..

Call Kraft and ask about

Open Original Shared Link

you could also ask about labelling....

08/01/2007 - The battle of wills between the UK food watchdog and industry heavyweights over nutrition labelling threatens to destabilise the balance of power between industry and government.

Top food firms and major UK supermarkets will fly the rebel flag this week by officially launching a nutrition labelling system rejected by the country's Food Standards Agency (FSA).

Hmm are they doing this for us or for them?

What they are doing is illegal, they don't care, they will be fined and they will have lawyers delay stuff and they will end up paying the fines but making more money than complying... just like they did selling cigarettes!

So phone them up ask them about gliten and then ask about cigarettes... ask why they hid reasearch and why their executies pergered themselves in court and if they lied about that why would you trust them over gluten ?

Open Original Shared Link

Are they all bad .. no of course not but its a matter of if you trust them really?

Wow, that's good info to have...

Does selenium have a smell? Trying to bring both ends of the thread together...

Its a metal..(technically semi metal like carbon and sulfur). (if that answers your question)

Salts can have a smell but if you can smell them you'd be already dead! So realitically its not useful....

Its present in very small quantities.... and its also needed ion very small quantities...

Your USGS office is really the best place to ask about your area....

The most practical test you could do at home would be a flame test.... selenium is a very distinctive azure blue...

It also eclipses the most common problem with flame tests which is sodium contamination... since its so bright...

added: Its not really just Selenium but many of the trace elements. The addition of these to suppliments sold country and worldwide is just downright irresposible really ...

Regarding selenium (although its just one of many) if you have a copper processing plant nearby then this is a common byproduct...

but the sensible thing is really to check your local USGS office.... (geologist do have a use )

If its baking then add the Xanthan gum bit for sauces etc. no need...

A simple rule, if it needs to rise use Xanthan gum but if not don't....

Weird thing best pizza crusts I had (In Italy) were made just using striaght gluten-free flour, salt and water... no yeast no additives... they are kinda thin so you need to choose toppings accordingly.. and the guys at this resto had all sort of recommendations, they told me which worked best when I went through the menu...

Nice one!

The thread title sounded a bit funny like your glad your brother has it but I see what you mean now

hundreds

Where to start....

How about making the meatballs as normal but add some sage ...

You can make turkey kebabs.... add some real fine chopped onion, paprika, cumin and cilantro... then grill them on a griddle

You can make a bolgnaise and just switch turkey in....

And just about any mexican dish .... how about some taco's... and guacamole... or chilli con 'pavo' ....

Meatloaf with gluten-free bread and turkey?

Here is a great tip

Open Original Shared Link

or almost all of these are easily gluten-free....

Open Original Shared Link

I bet it was a coincidental, I got glutened after going gluten-free and within a half hour I was in the bathroom. Your cold was probably already brewing.

You might be sensitive to Ibuprofren, especially if you're allergic to asprin or any thing that is related to asprin. and sensitivities can just show up at any time in your life. It's worth it keeping a food log and writing down the stuff you eat as well as OTC meds you might be taking.

It could be any or all....

My advice is give reintroducing a break until you feel better... you soon will.... then you can be more objective and retry....

If you only made one mistake then your doing way better than I did when I first went gluten-free!!!!!!

Take it easy, spoil youself... buy some nice stuff like essential oils and ask hubby for a massage... take a nice long hot bath with some nice candles... ask hubby for some HUGS... how about you rent a film and hug up on the sofa ....

It could just be "girl stuff" related as well..just a funny cycle... . but you know it doesn't matter... take care of yourself and give yourself some treats...

You're doing GREAT.... one mistake is nothing... it might not feel like it but put it in perspective...

I'm betting you just passed so much D it messed your insides up (like abrasion) but you should definately have it checked out...

I doubt your big worry is it... but it always pays to be safe! (Im no MD but the vomiting etc doesn't fit...) that said any internal bleeding is always best checked out...

What I'm trying to say is don't worry yourself into more D.... and vomiting... Get it checked out because its the right thing to do... and because its important your GI knows this but don't worry so much you give yourself extra D and a huge knot in your stomach...

This is much more conventional medicine than diagnosising celiac disease... I know you went through hell to be diagnosed but this is the bread and butter stuff of GI's...

I mostly agree .. approval doesn't matter but how you present it does...

If he/she accepts them fine if not...

I have these tests

Erm yep but we don't really accept thopse tests

OK, so what don't youi accept about them

<answer irrelevant>

OK, so I am ill, I eat gluten and I become more ill, I stop and I get better... I have these tests you don't accept but haven't explained - what are we going to do about it...

You have public healthcare, your DR has a duty... if the oral approach doesn't work then send a letter...

Everyone love's that quote, but if you read it in context, it's in favor of lawyers. In the play, there is a plot to create a revolution. To do so, the perpetuator "Dick The Butcher" suggests killing the lawyers. This act is designed to bring chaos, underscoring the idea that lawyers were seen at that time to be protectors of society and free thought.

See : Open Original Shared Link

"Ironically, the rallying cry of the lawyer bashers has become Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS."

Those who use this phrase pejoratively against lawyers are as miserably misguided about their Shakespeare as they are about the judicial system which they disdain so freely.

Even a cursory reading of the context in which the lawyer killing statement is made in King Henry VI, Part II, (Act IV), Scene 2, reveals that Shakespeare was paying great and deserved homage to our venerable profession as the front line defenders of democracy.

The accolade is spoken by Dick the Butcher, a follower of anarchist Jack Cade, whom Shakespeare depicts as "the head of an army of rabble and a demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the government. Shakespeare's acknowledgment that the first thing any potential tyrant must do to eliminate freedom is to "kill all the lawyers" is, indeed, a classic and well-deserved compliment to our distinguished profession."

Not a lawyer, but a shakespeare fan.

Geoff

LOL.... Thanks Geoff...(I like dicovering stuff like that and I know something new and interesting today) and lets no forget who wrote your consitution... (both versions )

As an outsider observation, the problem with lawyers in the USA is the justice system though... I doubt you will agree but IMHO lawyers are just allowed by the justice system to make far too much money if that is what they want... and its a rare person that decides to be a lawyer and isn't concerned about money. Its not that lawyers are bad... its just that lawyers wrote the system and its rules and just happen to be the most qualified in how to exploit it! I don't have any better suggestion though... so it just looks like Lawyers need a thick skin

The funny thing is in Roman times actors(esses) were regarded on the same level as prostitutes.(legally).. quite a few of them were celebrated and made a decent wage for a non equistrian class... and even some of the equistrian staff were entranced by the "candlelight" (for want of limelight) yet today ....!!!

I forget what t.v. show had this deficiency as a story line. It was years ago and I think social workers were trying to prove child neglect because this girl keep eating dirt and garbage stuff.

Does it help to take mineral supplements? I know we're all deficient in selenium and brazil nuts are about the only thing that's full of it. Basically our soils are depleted of selenium and so we're not getting it in our diets.

Gail

Gail, thats not entirely true (no offense, its a subject I know a lot about), it really depends where you live and where the crops come from... (Honestly this is my specialist subject if I ever had to go on a TV quiz thing and my undergrad geology dissertation)....

The USGS publishes maps... without boring you with the geology, the US has some very monotonous geology... the dustbowl for instance is actually caused by too much selenium, the soil has so much its toxic and crops grown in it are toxic...

It depends massively where you live... where tyour crops come from etc. Selenium is one of those trace elements that has a very low tolerance between what you need, an ideal amount and a toxic amount...

If you phone your local state USGS office you should be able to ask someone about your area... don't just assume and take selenium suppliments because its quite dangerous...

The US Congres is trying to get a bill passed to make the month of May the National Celiac Awareness Month. Everybody should e-mail their Congress-person to pass this bill. It would be great to have PBS annoucements on TV for the whole month of May.

GREAT???? That's like saying the sun is warm, the Marrianas trench is slightly deeper than head height...

IT will change your LIFE!

I'm not joking.... suddenly it will be NOT PC to make fun of celiac disease... resto and catering staff will be all more aware and have no escuse for not knowing what it is... and you will lose that second head..the one you sprout when saying "I can't eat wheat"...

Really, not so bad... but yes I get bleeding...just obviously not as bad as yours... hopefully that helps and you feel less like a freak

I know you had a much roughewr time pre-diag than me and stuff...Gosh I feel kinda selfish...sorta thinking glad its you not me...

Is that bad or is it just my "honest Aspie" side coming out???

Stop the coffee immediately though.... I would have thought or anything else thinning the blood!

(and gfp -- i thought of you when he brought up the Irish again, because I've read your lengthy posts on "heritage", in the past -- haha)

Sorry I was trying to put the thread back on line.... My good "Irish American" friend Charles (Chip) Kelley lives in Boston too with his "Italian American" wife... LOL

OK, here's the molecular biology theory (although I like the damp theory too).

Headaches can be caused by constriction or dilation of blood vessels. Suppose your's are caused (in part) by dilation. And suppose you have a very mild allergic reaction to dust/mold/etc that causes constriction of your blood vessels. Over time you've taught yourself that the smell relieves headaches, and now you seek it out.

Or, you are incredibly, primally sensitive, and what you are seeking out are the natural antibiotics that live in soil. Maybe you have secondary infections?

Or maybe it's just leftover from the pica.

Not sure its really chemistry but I agree with the moisture and mild allergic reaction....

It could be something similar to make you want to sneeze... because your body has some stuff to get rid if that not ittitating it enough to sneeze?

also crave smells--gasoline and tar come to mind. I think Vicks Vaporub has some kind of sedating effect on me--I will breathe it in until I feel relaxed, and kind of spaced. blink.gif

both of these though could just be associated with good childhood memories?

Sorry no chemistry really here but if for instance you used to get headaches and seek out a dark space or were afriad of the dark and hid in a dusty cupboard....

Gasoline and tar to me evoke 1976... a big heatwave summer in the UK. All the road tar melted (I got it everywhere)... but also the gasoline is like going on vacation or falling asleep in the car feeling all warm and safe... like on my way home from grannies...

I used to curl up in the back of the station wagon and so the smell to me reminds me of good times, tiring myself out with granny and then falling asleep on the way home...I can even associate rain on the car... that comfroting I'm inside but it sounds so cool thing???

our doc told us, in so many words, NOT to cheat because you're going to be getting glutened enough by accident.

Back on topic....

I wonder if this wasn't the point the MD was trying to make, albeit very badly?

Its pretty hard to say... ?

I think a lof of MD's see a lot of people they say must change their diet, not just celiacs ...

One of my friends who is really over weight, smoked 60 a day and drinks a lot got told by his MD to go on some meds for life although it wasn't going to be a very long one but the meds were getting better all the time...

He asked what if he lost weight, stopped smoking etc. what was his prognosis?

Oh, noone does she said ... well some people have and the prognosis is actually very good but forget it, noone ever does....

So far he has.... but MD's say the same to non insulin dependent diabetics indeed many it seems have given up even suggesting dietry control and jump straight to insulin??

I think what the MD was trying to convey and just did it badly is you need to do the diet strictly .... and that its better to cheat occaisionally than everyday but in small ways.... That said, its obviously better not to cheat... I just thing MD's don't give us much credit for actually trying to follow a diet??

Don't forget the posh word fromente

I would have said something like this, except Maggianos is known for accomodating celiac and other food intolerances. It's easy to get a safe meal there. Our Maggianos serves at least 6 gluten-free meals PER DAY!!

Then I respectfully bow to your local knowledge

When I go to these types of things there is usually a set menu and I've pretty much always been able to modify atleast 1 thing. Just like when I go to any other restaurant I pretty much order off of what's been given and when the waitstaff comes to take the orders I tell them the adjustments I need.

Anytime I've called ahead they pretty much just tell me don't worry about it and to just let my waitstaff know when I order. So that's what I do now.

Its up to you... are tyou a bridesmaid?

If so I'd say no because its not worth the risk being ill.... it would spoil her day and all the photo's you'll look terrible...

If not then its the same chance you take any time...

Well, my family background is Swedish and I have it, my mom is English/German, and she has it, and my Irish hubby doesn't! Go figure!

Because it doesn't make ANY difference.... there is NO SUCH thing genetically as Swedish, English or German... its as simple as that.

Let me put it this way... many Americans have celiac disease... does the fact I have American relatives make any difference to this?

No because America is a melting pot of races....

Europe is NO DIFFERENT... there is no Irish ... Americans that say they are American Irish are just kidding themsleves and being nostalgic... in reality the Irish in a gross view are a mix of Vikings, Celts, English, Saxon and lots of Spanish... and that's just major groups...

Would a black Irishman have a higher or lower chance of celiac disease than an African American?

The number of Irish, Swedish or whomever that say they are racially pure is just a joke... Do you think the white americans didn't rape black slaves? The genetics of African Americans is mixed with caucasian and almost no African American who's family has been in America since slavery has no caucasian blood... similarly the English raped the Irish and Scots although in a more methodical and scientific way... the idea was that you put English blood into them and they were less liekly to rise up...

The Vikings were not known for asking permission either....

And all of this supposes that peple are not lying... a very large percentage of children are not the biological produce of their supposed and legal fathers... Random sampling shows 1:25 in N. America and Europe... in more primitive cultures its probably far higher...

Doctors who make diagnosis based on supposed heritage are VERY dangerous..... that is why its a legal requirement to check blood type before a transfusion, regardless of the mother swearing blind the blood type of the father!

Heres the way I see it. If you don't cheat you won't need this doctor anymore. If you do cheat you will continue to have problems. Thus he can see your smiling face at least every six months or so and that vacation home in Bermuda will get paid for.

Good perspective!

On the cheating front... ???

This is a mine field ....

The bottom lineis noone REALLY knows....

Take 2 extremes of cheating... you can pathalogically avoid anything with possible gluten, including things we are "told" are safe... and you can do the cheating opposite which is convince yourself things that might not be safe ARE...

I'm starting to wonder about a brand cider .... I keep getting ill BUT I can drink 2-3 bottles of good wine and other than killing a few brain cells... I'm fine... I keep telling myself the cider is gluten-free.... I am starting to suspect I'm cheating myself!

As a note.. in France ALL GLASSES legally have to be washed before using them (immediately before) as well as the normal dishwasher...

Which is best... obviously neither! Its like Sophies choice... but the alternative is what? In Europe and it looks like the US 200ppm or 20ppm is considered legally gluten free.... One thing I know is I get ill off this stuff... the same goes for grain alcohol...

It is my opinion (based on a lot of reading and observation) that a small amount on a regualr basis is worse for long term health than a large amount infrequently... quite what is a regualr basis and infrequent or a "small amount" I honestly can't say.

I would say anyone eating McDonalds fries is cheating... don't get angry they have been tested definitively to contain gluten...

Is it enough to harm you? That I cannot say but even if they didn't the chance of CC is SO HIGH as to make it a certainty if you eat there once a week for a year. To this list you can add sharing a kitchen, specially a toaster or about 300 other things many people do....

What is important is noone knows... how much ... how often ... what complications!

As tarnalberry says, once a month you might as well not be on the diet... I kinda agree ... once a month...week??? who's really sure???

What I am sure about is most MD's haven't got a clue about celiac disease....

as long as a strict gluten free diet is followed "it's OK to cheat once in a while".

The question is what is once in a while?

Obviously the best approach would be never to cheat but its hardly possible if you count eating out as cheating... and eating out always carries a risk...

Dear gfp,

House--gotta love him! If I were a doctor, I probably would be like either Cristina on Grey's Anatomy, or a female version of Becker. Really, many doctors I have had did not have good people skills. They were rude, snobbish, and complete idiots. They were also microfocused and always convinced that they were right. I am a people person as long as it does not involve my family.

This microfocusing, as you pointed out, is only going to hinder progress. Solutions cannot be found when you refuse to look at them from other perspectives. Ignoring small things can end up causing big problems. If people do not start putting their differences aside for the greater good, the medical community shall continue to suck and only go downhill. Of course, these morons in labcoats are too busy having tunnel vision to notice or care about what any of us have to say!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

P.S. That is why Alzheimer's is such a problem. Mercury poisoning and aluminum poisoning are common contributers. Most dentists and other MDs refuse to believe that this could be its cause or add to it. A wonderful book to read is "Beating Alzheimer's" by Tom Warren. This guy had actual brain atrophies, and reversed them. He had food allergies, an overgrowth of yeast, mercury poisoning, and various other things that resulted in the cerebral death sentence known as Alzheimer's. "It's All in Your Head" is another good book by Dr. Hal Huggins who explains the dangers of dental materials and their impact on your health.

I'll look into the book but you should read the papers on "The Gluten File" ... I agree microfocussing can be bad but its all about how its done.

Dr. H's papers are written openly.... he and his cowriters link to stuff and say we don't understand the link and its not our speciality BUT its there...... in this case you can't have a neurologist making expert assesments of other fields but he can and does bring it up. IMHO there are two sides to "micro-focussing" and its a double edged sword but to get REAL experts you must microfocus... Newton said it best and I parphrase from memory "If I have achived greatness it is by standing on the shoulders of giants". All science today is so complex you must rely on other experts outside your field... in my field (Geology) a Vulcanologist who is predicting a eruption must rely on the data from a geophysicist...

This is an excellent example of the scientific method...

Open Original Shared Link

Summary for those not wanting to read...

In 1912, Scientist Alfred Wegener introduced his Theory of Continental Drift, which sought to explain this similarity. Alfred Wegener's one of the individuals, who in the Twentieth Century has had a major influence on geological thought. He observed like several before him the geographic relationship along the Atlantic Ocean, and that the obvious match between, particularly, the African and South American continent. This led him to conclude that the surface of the Earth, that the continents were not stable but, in fact, mobile and led to his idea of drifting continents. At the time it was not accepted; it was not well accepted in either geological or other scientific thought but ultimately became the foundation for what was a real revolution in geology.

The model that we now call sea floor spreading was first proposed by Harry Hess in 1963. Hess had been a ship commander during World War II and had access to an echo sounder, which he kept turned on all the time in the hopes that he'd be able to use the data to understand about the Earth. Hess was a trained geologist.

In 1963, Hess wrote a paper published in the Scientific Journal, which he called an "Essay in Geopoetry." It's an interesting title, "Essay in Geopoetry." See, in order for there to be Science, there has to be evidence, and Hess virtually had no evidence for his theory. The only evidence he really had was the age of the sea floor rocks, the youngest, 200 million years old, virtually no other evidence.

In the 1960s Vine and Matthews discovered magnetic stripes on the sea floor. Now, these strips aren't really stripes. It's not like they're painted on the ocean floor, but by the 1960s it was accepted that the Earth's magnetic field periodically reverses itself.

Vine and Matthews made a connection with sea floor spreading. The connection is a very simple one that they predicted that these magnetic stripes ought to be symmetrical with the ridge.

Once the theory of sea floor spreading began to make sense, other methods of studying the Earth, including gravity and earthquake studies, and heat flow, and radioactive dating, and various other aspects began to put together this model of plate tectonics, and today we're able to calculate fairly accurately using the magnetic reversals, the rate of sea floor spreading, and we find that in the Atlantic Ocean the rates are from one to four centimeters per year and in the Pacific Ocean from three to ten centimeters per year. Just a sense of how long or how slow this process really is, I mentioned in a previous lesson how fast your fingernails grow.

This is exactly what SHOULD be happening with celiac disease....

You still need experts in different fields.... much of what I learned on celiac disease involves some complex chemistry most MD's wouldn't even begin to understand... but certain specialist do like Dr. H....

The mechanism for instance of ion channels which pass large molecules (like gluten) across supposedly impermeable barriers...

because there is no such thing as absolute permeability... only relative...

MD's tend to focus on definitions ... the whole definition of celiac disease is laughable because its woefully incomplete ... celiac disease doesn't scientifically exist by the definition just as the shape of Arfica and S. America doesn't prove anything...but coincidence BUT its still true, we just can't say how... why....

This is where the proof comes in and the proof is almost always from specialists who micro focus...

Vine and Hess were geophysicists there knowledge of geology was sketchy at best... sure they had undergrad degrees but that means jack in geology... published research is all that counts.

BUT their speciality and their ability to understand geophysics brought together all the theories and opened the floodgates to plate tectonics. Most geologists I know can't do the math for plate tectonics... but the evidence is irrefutable ... not simply from thier measurements but because thier proof opened the floodgates to hundreds of other techniques from paleo-botany to basin evolution (my speciality)...

Dear gfp,

I am so glad you mentioned Celiac having a connection to Alzheimer's. My grandmother was diagnosed with it about a year and a half ago. I wondered about that. Another major component is heavy metal poisonings, often from mercury and aluminum from my research. There is a great book about this and how yeast overgrowth, food allergies, and heavy metal poisoning contributes to Alzheimer's. There is a man named Tom Warren who reversed his Alzheimer's (he had actual brain atrophies) and tells about it in his book "Beating Alzheimer's".

As far as Celiac research goes, I agree that both of the doctors Fine and Dr. H are microfocused.

They are only concentrating on one aspect. That can hinder instead of help finding answers. I had negative serology many years ago, and was told there was no way I have Celiac. My biopsy was negative as well, so they said. However, I do not believe they actually knew what they were looking for. If they had, they sure would not have missed a bad gallbladder! By the way, I am glad you finally got some wine!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

Yep and to be honest I find this the SCARIEST part of celiac disease.....

I find them both microfocused (damned good word that).... but the work of Hzxzzzjzx is written up in such a way as to allow other researchers to use it whereas Fine just isn't written up :-(

It doesn't mean I think Fine is wrong... he's being a damneed good MD and treating people .... whereas H... is research only and has no interest in people.... (I'm betting he would make House look like a caring MD with great bedside manners)

However his research is A++++ ... and ultimately he is providing answers to people who can use it to treat their patients!

This is what makes the word go round... we all have different strokes and stuff.... I spent most of my life in research because I'm not good with people.... had I know about gluten I might have spent my life differently because I am **much** better with people gluten free!

The Gluten Intolerance Group considers the fries gluten-free.

From everything I've read, and soley in my own opinion, the chance of getting wheat through CC at a fast food place is MUCH greater than the chance of getting gluten from the flavoring in the oil used to cook the fries before freezing. Anybody who is truly so concerned about getting gluten that they wouldn't eat McD fries because of that oil, shouldn't be eating fast food at all.

richard

Richard, I honestly think its two seperate issues.... and that CC is WAY bigger in fast food regardless..... but there really are seperate issues IMHO...

FWIW, this would make the fries gluten-free under the standards of most any country that has standards, and gluten-free under the standards that will almost certainly be adopted in the U.S. The GIG certification program tests products just to 10 ppm gluten, although the fries couldn't be certified because of CC and other things.

Several countries have zero as gluten-free but really it boils down to semantics...

Just give me a few paragraphs to explain WHY....

In one case, I have a friend who gets seizures from gluten, each one is potentially life threatening.

Unfortunately her life expectancy isn't that great due to cancer but lets assume for the sake of discussion it was...

Her eating out at McDonalds at all is stupid (and she never would), 90%+ because of the risk of CC.... BUT should she have a right to eat safely at home?

Its unfortunate she can't eat out but of she buys gluten-free shouldn't she have the right to EXPECT it is indeed gluten free and not "fairly low" ....

Now the second part is many of us seem to react to LOWER than 20ppm .... its damned hard to say because I know I react to certain codex gluten-free stuff... but is that because its 20ppm or because the manufacturer accidentally CC'd and its perhaps a bad batch at 200ppm?

I honestly can't say for sure... I just know I react...

However many of us here are more concerned about things other than D or intestinal cramps/pain... honestly I'm a tough sorta guy... I'd put up with it if it wasn't for the long term health risks....

The majority of CURRENT research on celiac disease is not about gut's ... its about neurological or other implications... and a considerable weight of evidence shows you can have very severe to life threatining and terminal conditions without flattened villi.

Nearly all of these very scary conditions are long term conditions....just like you don't get lung cancer from one cigarette you don't get intestinal cancer or thyroid conditions from one glutening.. its a process whereby long term chipping away has a bigger effect than occaisional stuff....

What worries me most is stuff I eat on a almost daily basis.... stuff which is perhaps contaminated or simply only tested to a certain limit....

Much more accurate tests are available.... FACT the McDonalds oil showed positive to the RAST test... and a more expensive GCLC would have provided probably more info... legislating at 200 or 20ppm is just making an excuse for the manufacturers lying... they will select the least sensitive test not based on cost but because its likely to provide the best chance of a negative.

Even if a company wishes to make as close to 100% gluten-free as possible they are hindered because their competition can simply use less accurate testing .... and they are not forced to disclose that testing....

What I think is most sensible is that manufacturers are simply forced to disclose the testing accuracy and limits... then the consumer can decide objectively....

Even MORE IMPORTANTLY .... those of us whom react to traces can actually work out if its inconsistencies and determine our comfort levels... I don't see me eating McDo's fries simply for the same reason you state... HOWEVER there are circumstances where I might risk a low gluten (gluten-free-lite) meal or risk McDo's fries instead of not eating...

I honestly believe that more long term damage is done from extended and regualr consumption of low gluten CODEX than eating a pizza once a year washed down with beer... I'm not saying we should do this... everyone should make up their own mind.... BUT what I do think is not only reasonable but should be a right is that they are provided the information to make these choices.

Once this is available then far more information will be available for the bleeding edge research on celiac disease... currently its hampered by people's inability to actually BE gluten-free...

The cost of testing is based on the popularity of certain tests... if a lab is set up to do a type of analysis the costs are a fraction of a one off analysis...

**** /boring part on how analyses are run and costs

When you make a accurate quantitiative analysis you use what is known as intrumentation.... these are machines like GC-MS, GC-LC etc. they are more or less automated machines... you prepare a sample, follow the method and stick the sample vial into the queue.... along with standards for calibration....

If you are measuring a certain type of sample you select a column which is sensitive to this type of sample... the puropse of the column is to seperate the different components and they are fairly expensive, the cost depends on the column and its specificity and how many the supplier sells... a really advanced lab will also develop their own and this is ridiculously expensive for one offs...

If a standard column exists however you purge the machinbe (costs time) and then you must recalibate the whole machine (costs more time)... then run standards and more calibration... etc..

Then you pop in the sample vessel and hit GO.... 10 minutes later the SW calibrates and gives you the answer...

99% of the cost is in calibration and methods... if a lab had a machine set up to run gluten and only gluten samples could be run for $100.... if not then it will cost $5000 (per sample for a run ) or $25000 per sample for short run...

Depending on the column it needs recalibation from time to time... and replacement...

However the cost of this is only significant if the analysis company have to keep switching... again if they had a dedicated machine the costs for calibation and the columns are immaterial....

If a lab was to have a dedicated machine then costs and turnaround needn't be high.... BUT right now there is no reason to do it because it puts companies at a competitive DISADVANTAGE to be honest... which would most people but the "gluten free" that doesn't say which test or the 2 ppm Gluten free ??? or pay more for guaranteed less than 1ppm???