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Monosodium Glutamate And Celiac Disease

NEURO

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NEURO Newbie
NEURO
Posted

I have been reading some of the old posts about msg and that it is specifically gluten free (unless it is from a wheat source). The research that I have done shows that it is a free form of glutamic acid. I was curious if this extra source of glutamic acid might aid the transglutaminase (tTG) in changing the glutamines at positions p1 and p9 in the HLA-DQ2 and HLA-DQ8 molecules to glutamic acid (due to abundence of glutamic acid or change in pH levels of of the surroundings) causing the T-cell respond to the incorrect sequence in the molecules. Can the presence of the extra glutamic acid trigger a response from the immune system due to sensitivity to the similarity in the change of gluten by tTG?

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larry mac Enthusiast
larry mac
Posted
I have been reading some of the old posts about msg and that it is specifically gluten free (unless it is from a wheat source). The research that I have done shows that it is a free form of glutamic acid. I was curious if this extra source of glutamic acid might aid the transglutaminase (tTG) in changing the glutamines at positions p1 and p9 in the HLA-DQ2 and HLA-DQ8 molecules to glutamic acid (due to abundence of glutamic acid or change in pH levels of of the surroundings) causing the T-cell respond to the incorrect sequence in the molecules. Can the presence of the extra glutamic acid trigger a response from the immune system due to sensitivity to the similarity in the change of gluten by tTG?

Are you proposing that MSG may mimic gluten intolerance, or add to it? I don't profess to understand all the chemistry, but that sounds pretty far-fetched to me, especially any PH effect. I'm guessing that doctors & researchers would have seen that connection right off. But, who knows, you could win a Nobel prize or something! A quick trip to Open Original Shared Link reveals several interesting aspects of Glutamate & Glutamine ( I take 4.5g daily as a powdered supplement ). BTW, as far as I know, I personally have never had a problem with MSG, so have never paid much attention to it. Please refer to the link for a listing of naturally occurring glutamate levels in food. This is good info I would recommend to everyone.

"Many people believe that MSG Speeds up the digestion of healthy proteins.

As a result of consuming MSG or protein-based foods, a natural elevation of the blood glutamate level will occur. That level will return to "baseline" (or the level before eating) in about three hours, no matter what the source of glutamate.

Glutamine, and the closely-related compound glutamate, are two amino acids that are critical to human health. In humans, animals, and plants, glutamine and glutamate are transformed into each other as part of numerous physiological processes. The roles of these amino acids in human diseases were intensively researched during the past decade and continue to be the subject of scrutiny. One area of interest is their potential health effects when they are provided in addition to the normal dietary intake that is already several grams per day.

Glutamine has been recommended by nutritionists as a dietary supplement for several serious disease conditions and there is growing research support for this action. Hospital dietitians are aware of the value of administering glutamine in parenteral nutrition (IV nutrition) for critically ill patients, and especially for patients who have had intestinal surgery, but physicians rarely recommend glutamine supplementation in other situations for which it may be indicated. Therefore, it is valuable for other health care providers to be familiar with the over-the-counter availability and uses of glutamine for supplementation purposes."

and of special interest to the MSG sensitive:

"(in the United States) Under current FDA regulations, significant amounts of free glutamate can be included in food under the following ingredient labels: MSG, monosodium glutamate, glutamic acid, hydrolyzed protein, autolyzed protein, textured protein, yeast extract, autolyzed yeast extract, protein isolate, soy sauce, modified food starch, modified corn starch, calcium caseinate, and sodium caseinate. In some cases, significant amounts of free glutamate are also added as broth, maltodextrin, seasonings, or natural flavor."

Theres lots more, also click on the glutamic acid link. best regards, lm

maximumbob Newbie
maximumbob
Posted

2/5/07

In response to MSG and glutamates, etc., I need to know if "autolyzed (sic) yeast extract: listed in chicken broth, is potent to someone with celiac disease. I suspect it is used as falvoring, i.e. MSG.

My wife was diagnosed in '98 with celiac disease (blood test only), also lactose intolernace, and has lost about 30 pounds in the last three months (shortly after suspect TIA) but may have now stablized at about 106 lbs, dressed, at 5'4". Trying very hard to maintain strict diet and haven't been able to find out if small intestine has flatened villa and/or there is musous damage to wall, which I suspect is the cause for malabsorption. Will find out in a couple of days. Have her on probiotics, two types (Florastor), enzymes, vitamins, etc. She is very depressed but continues to work as OTR with autistic children. Buy from Whole Foods and bread from Celiac Free local restaruant/bakery that has a celiac disease free menu.

Can't find a local GI speacialist or someone locally that knows what they are doing in this area. I guess I need to find a local celiac disease support group.

Tired of printing up list that are all suspect because of changing contents or discoveries that things are now suspect, or or no longer suspect.

Does any one know how the phase two tests is coming along in Palo Alto, Calif. I am sorry but I don't have the specific info as I am work, but it was the company that got a 21 mil grant to proceed with its specicifc molecule testing.

Sorry for covering to many areas.yeast

I do have a toll free number, but being new to this site, not sure that I can provide it.

Any info is appreciated,

Maximumbob

amarieski Apprentice
amarieski
Posted
2/5/07

In response to MSG and glutamates, etc., I need to know if "autolyzed (sic) yeast extract: listed in chicken broth, is potent to someone with celiac disease. I suspect it is used as falvoring, i.e. MSG.

My wife was diagnosed in '98 with celiac disease (blood test only), also lactose intolernace, and has lost about 30 pounds in the last three months (shortly after suspect TIA) but may have now stablized at about 106 lbs, dressed, at 5'4". Trying very hard to maintain strict diet and haven't been able to find out if small intestine has flatened villa and/or there is musous damage to wall, which I suspect is the cause for malabsorption. Will find out in a couple of days. Have her on probiotics, two types (Florastor), enzymes, vitamins, etc. She is very depressed but continues to work as OTR with autistic children. Buy from Whole Foods and bread from Celiac Free local restaruant/bakery that has a celiac disease free menu.

Can't find a local GI speacialist or someone locally that knows what they are doing in this area. I guess I need to find a local celiac disease support group.

Tired of printing up list that are all suspect because of changing contents or discoveries that things are now suspect, or or no longer suspect.

Does any one know how the phase two tests is coming along in Palo Alto, Calif. I am sorry but I don't have the specific info as I am work, but it was the company that got a 21 mil grant to proceed with its specicifc molecule testing.

Sorry for covering to many areas.yeast

I do have a toll free number, but being new to this site, not sure that I can provide it.

Any info is appreciated,

Maximumbob

I know before I was diagnosed with celiac I was told to avoid all msg for reactions, example: chinese food because I felt so terrible after I ate it, neck pain, light headed heart palps and severe fatigue and of course other minor things but now I wonder if it was the celiac? but otherwise there is a list of symptoms in reaction to forms of msg here is that site............. Open Original Shared Link and here is a way to identify hidden types of msg in food labels .......... Open Original Shared Link and here is last but not least the answer to your question, states here that it is a primary source for msg. I hope this helps Open Original Shared Link. and this site but you have to read through it I know its on this page says it may be intolerant for celiacs, I guess be safe than sorry? Open Original Shared Link

tummytroubles Newbie
tummytroubles
Posted

All I know is that I very much react to MSG. It actually gives me symptoms similar to a mild multiple sclerosis flare up. I don't know if I react because it is related to the whole gluten intolerance thing, or if it because of my MS though.

UR Groovy Explorer
UR Groovy
Posted
All I know is that I very much react to MSG. It actually gives me symptoms similar to a mild multiple sclerosis flare up. I don't know if I react because it is related to the whole gluten intolerance thing, or if it because of my MS though.

To all you MSG problematic people:

Beware of Tomato juice or over-ripe tomatoes

bluejeangirl Contributor
bluejeangirl
Posted
To all you MSG problematic people:

Beware of Tomato juice or over-ripe tomatoes

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UR Groovy Explorer
UR Groovy
Posted

--

  • 5 months later...
GFAngel Newbie
GFAngel
Posted

I just wanted to add what I'd recently transcribed from a tv health show I watch. I'm very confused about gluten being in MSG - I've read it is and it isn't. Either way, it doesn't sound very healthy. I thought anyone reading about MSG might be able to use this to further their research:

Your Health with Dr. Richard and Cindy Becker (viewed on KSBI-TV Ch. 52, OKC on Tuesday, July 10, 2007)

Today

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    • cristiana
      Feel like I’m starting over

      By cristiana · Posted

      Hi @Scatterbrain Thank you for your reply.   Some of these things could be weaknesses, also triggered by stress, which perhaps have come about as the result of long-term deficiencies which can take a long time to correct.   Some could be completely unrelated. If it is of help, I'll tell you some of the things that started in the first year or two, following my diagnosis - I pinned everything on coeliac disease, but it turns out I wasn't always right!  Dizziness, lightheaded - I was eventually diagnosed with cervical dizziness (worth googling, could be your issue too, also if you have neck pain?)  A few months after diagnosis I put my neck out slightly carrying my seven-year-old above my head, and never assigned any relevance to it as the pain at the time was severe but so short-lived that I'd forgotten the connection. Jaw pain - stress. Tinnitus - I think stress, but perhaps exacerbated by iron/vitamin deficiencies. Painful ribs and sacroiliac joints - no idea, bloating made the pain worse. It got really bad but then got better. Irregular heart rate - could be a coincidence but my sister (not a coeliac) and I both developed this temporarily after our second Astra Zeneca covid jabs.   Subsequent Pfizer jabs didn't affect us. Brain fog - a big thing for people with certain autoimmune issues but in my case I think possibly worse when my iron or B12 are low, but I have no proof of this. Insomnia - stress, menopause. So basically, it isn't always gluten.  It might be worth having your vitamins and mineral levels checked, and if you have deficiencies speak to your Dr about how better to address them?    
    • knitty kitty
      My only proof

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      @NanceK, I do have Hypersensitivity Type Four reaction to Sulfa drugs, a sulfa allergy.  Benfotiamine and other forms of Thiamine do not bother me at all.  There's sulfur in all kinds of Thiamine, yet our bodies must have it as an essential nutrient to make life sustaining enzymes.  The sulfur in thiamine is in a ring which does not trigger sulfa allergy like sulfites in a chain found in pharmaceuticals.  Doctors are not given sufficient education in nutrition (nor chemistry in this case).  I studied Nutrition before earning a degree in Microbiology.  I wanted to know what vitamins were doing inside the body.   Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses.   Not feeling well after starting Benfotiamine is normal.  It's called the "thiamine paradox" and is equivalent to an engine backfiring if it's not been cranked up for a while.  Mine went away in about three days.  I took a B Complex, magnesium and added molybdenum for a few weeks. It's important to add a B Complex with all eight essential B vitamins. Supplementing just one B vitamin can cause lows in some of the others and result in feeling worse, too.  Celiac Disease causes malabsorption of all the B vitamins, not just thiamine.  You need all eight.  Thiamine forms including Benfotiamine interact with each of the other B vitamins in some way.  It's important to add a magnesium glycinate or chelate supplement as well.  Forms of Thiamine including Benfotiamine need magnesium to make those life sustaining enzymes.  (Don't use magnesium oxide.  It's not absorbed well.  It pulls water into the intestines and is used to relieve constipation.)   Molybdenum is a trace mineral that helps the body utilize forms of Thiamine.   Molybdenum supplements are available over the counter.  It's not unusual to be low in molybdenum if low in thiamine.   I do hope you will add the necessary supplements and try Benfotiamine again. Science-y Explanation of Thiamine Paradox: https://hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-with-ttfd-the-glutathione-connection/#google_vignette
    • Wheatwacked
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      Your goal is not to be a good puppet, there is no gain in that. You might want to restart the ones that helped.  It sounds more like you are suffering from malnutrition.  Gluten free foods are not fortified with things like Thiamine (B1), vitamin D, Iodine, B1,2,3,5,6 and 12 as non-gluten free products are required to be. There is a Catch-22 here.  Malnutrition can cause SIBO, and SIBO can worsen malnutrition. Another possibility is side effects from any medication that are taking.  I was on Metformin 3 months before it turned me into a zombi.  I had crippling side effects from most of the BP meds tried on me, and Losartan has many of the side effects on me from my pre gluten free days. Because you have been gluten free, you can test and talk until you are blue in the face but all of your tests will be negative.  Without gluten, you will not create the antigen against gluten, no antigens to gluten, so no small intestine damage from the antigens.  You will need to do a gluten challange to test positive if you need an official diagnosis, and even then, no guaranty: 10 g of gluten per day for 6 weeks! Then a full panel of Celiac tests and biopsy. At a minimum consider vitamin D, Liquid Iodine (unless you have dermatitis herpetiformis and iodine exasperates the rash), and Liquid Geritol. Push for vitamin D testing and a consult with a nutritionist experienced with Celiack Disease.  Most blood tests don't indicate nutritional deficiencies.  Your thyroid tests can be perfect, yet not indicate iodine deficiency for example.  Thiamine   test fine, but not pick up on beriberi.  Vegans are often B12 deficient because meat, fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy are the primary souces of B12. Here is what I take daily.  10,000 IU vitamin D3 750 mg g a b a [   ] 200 mg CoQ10 [   ] 100 mg DHEA [   ] 250 mg thiamine B1 [   ] 100 mg of B2 [   ] 500 mg B5 pantothenic acid [   ] 100 mg B6 [   ] 1000 micrograms B12 n [   ] 500 mg vitamin c [   ] 500 mg taurine [   ] 200 mg selenium   
    • NanceK
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      Hi…Just a note that if you have an allergy to sulfa it’s best not to take Benfotiamine. I bought a bottle and tried one without looking into it first and didn’t feel well.  I checked with my pharmacist and he said not to take it with a known sulfa allergy. I was really bummed because I thought it would help my energy level, but I was thankful I was given this info before taking more of it. 
    • Wheatwacked
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      Hello @Scatterbrain, Are you getting enough vitamins and minerals.  Gluten free food is not fortified so you may be starting to run low on B vitamins and vitamin D.   By the way you should get your mom checked for celiac disease.  You got it from your mom or dad.  Some studies show that following a gluten-free diet can stabilize or improve symptoms of dementia.  I know that for the 63 years I was eating gluten I got dumber and dumber until I started GFD and vitamin replenishment and it began to reverse.  Thiamine can get used up in a week or two.  Symptoms can come and go with daily diet.  Symptoms of beriberi due to Thiamine deficiency.   Difficulty walking. Loss of feeling (sensation) in hands and feet. Loss of muscle function or paralysis of the lower legs. Mental confusion. Pain. Speech difficulties. Strange eye movements (nystagmus) Tingling. Any change in medications? Last March I had corotid artery surgery (90 % blockage), and I started taking Losartan for blood pressure, added to the Clonidine I was taking already.  I was not recovering well and many of my pre gluten free symptoms were back  I was getting worse.  At first I thought it was caused a reaction to the anesthesia from the surgery, but that should have improved after two weeks.  Doctor thought I was just being a wimp. After three months I talked to my doctor about a break from the Losartan to see if it was causing it. It had not made any difference in my bp.  Except for clonindine, all of the previous bp meds tried had not worked to lower bp and had crippling side effects. One, I could not stand up straight; one wobbly knees, another spayed feet.  Inguinal hernia from the Lisinopril cough.  Had I contiued on those, I was destined for a wheelchair or walker. She said the symptoms were not from Losartan so I continued taking it.  Two weeks later I did not have the strength in hips and thighs to get up from sitting on the floor (Help, I can't get up😨).  I stopped AMA (not recommended).  Without the Losartan, a) bp did not change, after the 72 hour withdrawal from Losartanon, on clonidine only and b) symptoms started going away.  Improvement started in 72 hours.  After six weeks they were gone and I am getting better.  
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