Sandy poo

[Ansti]

Hi, I was Googling sandy, tarry stool and Celiac threads dominated the search results! I was wondering if I could ask the other parents here a question. In essence, it's 'Do any of your children have seasonal stool symptoms?'

I'll explain... My son has had a cluster of symptoms - chronic fatigue, emotional/behavioural problems, black sandy stool, foul smelling breath, joint aches, constipation etc - but it's very markedly worse between February and June. This has happened every year since he turned 2 (although the sandy stool only became obvious last year, so 2 years in a row now), so this is the fourth year that the pattern of ill health is repeating. I'd discounted Celiac as a possibility because of this seasonal pattern. Am I right? 

[Ennis-TX]

If he is eating gluten daily then celiac can be screened for easy enough. You have to be eating gluten every day and the doctors can run a celiac blood test to see if he has the antibodies.
https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/screening-and-diagnosis/screening/
Tar like stool can be many things but if it is black sticky tar, is there a chance it is blood? Upper digestive bleeding can cause black tar like stools. While lower digestive tract bleeding it stays red. Doctors can check with scopes for any kind of issues in his digestive tract.

Foul breath can be many things also, first thing with the stool is perhaps H Piyori or SIBO (Small Intestine Bacteria Overgrowth) if his diet goes more carb heavy/sugar laden during problem months this would be in line, as the bacteria would feed on sugar and carbs. Bit of a reference I found that consided with my hunches.
https://www.drstevenlin.com/bad-breath-stomach-causes/

[cyclinglady]

Please get your son to the doctor and ask for a celiac disease screening.  There is no other way to know if he has celiac disease without testing.  Celiac Disease causes damage in the small intestine, but can be systemic.  It is also like a Chameleon with symptoms changing.  When I was first diagnosed, I had no GI symptoms, but I did have allergies which would flare up in the Spring.  Now that I have managed my celiac disease with diet, My allergies have greatly reduced.  Celiac disease is an autoimmune disease (like MS, lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis).  I encourage you to learn more:

http://www.cureceliacdisease.org/screening/

 

[Ansti]

22 hours ago, Ennis_TX said:

If he is eating gluten daily then celiac can be screened for easy enough. You have to be eating gluten every day and the doctors can run a celiac blood test to see if he has the antibodies.
https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/screening-and-diagnosis/screening/
Tar like stool can be many things but if it is black sticky tar, is there a chance it is blood? Upper digestive bleeding can cause black tar like stools. While lower digestive tract bleeding it stays red. Doctors can check with scopes for any kind of issues in his digestive tract.

Foul breath can be many things also, first thing with the stool is perhaps H Piyori or SIBO (Small Intestine Bacteria Overgrowth) if his diet goes more carb heavy/sugar laden during problem months this would be in line, as the bacteria would feed on sugar and carbs. Bit of a reference I found that consided with my hunches.
https://www.drstevenlin.com/bad-breath-stomach-causes/

I think it is blood, it was positive on a urine dipstick and that's how I got his paeds referral. They're incredibly reluctant to run any tests on children though, my sisters have the same problem with their kids' doctors (loads of auto-immune disease in our family). Thanks for the link, it was interesting reading.

[Ansti]

16 hours ago, cyclinglady said:

Please get your son to the doctor and ask for a celiac disease screening.  There is no other way to know if he has celiac disease without testing.  Celiac Disease causes damage in the small intestine, but can be systemic.  It is also like a Chameleon with symptoms changing.  When I was first diagnosed, I had no GI symptoms, but I did have allergies which would flare up in the Spring.  Now that I have managed my celiac disease with diet, My allergies have greatly reduced.  Celiac disease is an autoimmune disease (like MS, lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis).  I encourage you to learn more:

http://www.cureceliacdisease.org/screening/

 

That's really interesting to hear. There's loads of auto-immune disease in our family, but none of us have this seasonal presentation. I had wondered whether there was a tree pollen link and that perhaps that an allergy aggravating his immune system might flare up an underlying condition like celiac or crohns. He has a mini flare for about a fortnight in August and he has itchy eyes then (ragweed season here). He doesn't have any allergy symptoms that I can see during winter/spring, but who knows... The doctors in our area don't like running tests on children, so I need to go to them with a really strong hypothesis and put pressure on. At the moment his paediatrician wants to see if his growth drops down any more percentiles before he runs any more tests... It's this seasonal thing that's really muddying the waters.

[Posterboy]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:22 AM, Ansti said:

Hi, I was Googling sandy, tarry stool and Celiac threads dominated the search results! I was wondering if I could ask the other parents here a question. In essence, it's 'Do any of your children have seasonal stool symptoms?'

I'll explain... My son has had a cluster of symptoms - chronic fatigue, emotional/behavioural problems, black sandy stool, foul smelling breath, joint aches, constipation etc - but it's very markedly worse between February and June. This has happened every year since he turned 2 (although the sandy stool only became obvious last year, so 2 years in a row now), so this is the fourth year that the pattern of ill health is repeating. I'd discounted Celiac as a possibility because of this seasonal pattern. Am I right? 

Ansti,

Some of the questions you bring up about "seasonal" factors is a good one. ...we are finding the more we study celiac disease that it is not all black and white ...sometimes it can be grey.

Here is some research that might answer some of your questions.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151102100302.htm

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20190215/Celiac-disease-may-be-caused-by-gastrointestinal-infection-in-childhood.aspx

recently EBV has been linked to Celiac disease and most doctor's are not aware of this connection/association. ...it might be when we are stressed  . ..our symptom's are worse/noticeable more.

It doesn't mean they are not there . .. just more worse/more noticeable certain "seasons" of the year like the Swedish research.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

2 Timothy 2: 7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Posterboy by the Grace of God,

[Posterboy]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:22 AM, Ansti said:

I'll explain... My son has had a cluster of symptoms - chronic fatigue, emotional/behavioural problems, black sandy stool, foul smelling breath, joint aches, constipation etc

Ansti,

I have broken my response up to your question(s) into two responses because they are two issues really. .. and to keep any one response from getting too long hopefully.

Many of your sons symptom's can be related to low stomach acid. ....I could of been your son ..I had GI problems from a very small kid (as long as I can remember)

see this dr. jockers article ...I will highlight point 2 in his article.

https://drjockers.com/symptoms-low-stomach-acid/

quoting  "2) H Pylori Infection: H Pylori is a common part of our microbiome, however, with the overuse of anti-biotics, chronic stress, poor diet, etc. we can cause a shift in the microbiome, a lowering of stomach acid and the overgrowth of H Pylori.

As H Pylori overgrowth occurs, these little guys produce an enzyme called “urease” which breaks down the urea in the stomach into carbon dioxide and ammonia.  This causes belching and halitosis (bad breath) for the individual and it neutralizes the acidifying effects of hydrochloric acid allowing for further growth of H Pylori and more stress on the GI system (2)."

It is me again. Dry mouth can also cause bad breath ...but often it is an overgrowth in your biome of nasty bugs/germs that have (Over) colonized your stomach and you no longer have a good 80/20 bad balance.

see also this howard hughes medical article

https://www.hhmi.org/news/excessive-growth-bacteria-may-also-be-major-cause-stomach-ulcers

Low stomach acid alone might not cause any one alone of these symptom's but when you have all these symptom's plus bad breath too boot ...H. Pylori is a good place to check/start with. ...but by the time you get to no stomach acid it is almost always an associated problem/condition.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

2 Timothy 2: 7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Posterboy by the Grace of God,