Yeast Overgrowth Vs. 'systematic Candida'

[lorka150]

I read somewhere on the forum that candida overgrowth and systematic candida are different - or there are different types. The internet googling led me to a lot of 'product' websites, so I am unsure of what is what. Can someone clear up the differences for me, please?

Thanks!

[captainjack]

This is a topic I have personal knowledge of. Yeast overgrowth is typically contained in the G.I. tract, and can be triggered by many things. This is generally treated without to much difficulty. Systemic Cadida is entirely different, and is an advanced condition. The yeast overgrowth can transform into the fungal stage and it is at this stage penetration of the gut takes place. The fungus is free to spread to other organs in the body once it gains access to the blood stream. The toxins produced by the fungus combined with the effects of the leaky gut can cause serious brain fog, and other symptoms.

This condition ocurred to me in 2002. I had knee surgery, a root canal, and sinus surgery all in the same year. I was given very strong anti biotics for each event, and in addition steriods for both surgeries. My health rapidly deteriorated with each event, and my Dr. could not help me. I saw 5 specialists over the next year and 1/2. I finally got fed up with the regular Drs. and paid cash to see a food allergy specialist M.D. who is very open minded and diagnosed the problem with blood work. His treatment and dietary restrictions helped put the fire under control, but after 7 months it was not out.

He then put me on diflucan for 2 months, and I quickly recoverd from my most severe symptoms. It took another 6 months to feel close to 100% because the healing takes time. I may never be 100%, but I am committed to a healthier lifestyle now, and believe I can prevent that from happening again.

Most people don't get the help they need, or can't make the lifestyle changes required to overcome systemic candida. I think the natural aproach will work great for yeast overgrowth, however I do not believe I would have recovered from systemic candida without anti fungal drugs. The problem is finding an M.D. who has experience diagnosing, and treating it. Most M.D. physicians do not agknowledge it, and that is the sad truth. I hope this helps you. I am happy to share information so feel free to ask.

[lorka150]

Thank you so much - I think you answered it clearly! I am glad that someone could respond.

[smallwood449]

  captainjack said:

This is a topic I have personal knowledge of. Yeast overgrowth is typically contained in the G.I. tract, and can be triggered by many things. This is generally treated without to much difficulty. Systemic Cadida is entirely different, and is an advanced condition. The yeast overgrowth can transform into the fungal stage and it is at this stage penetration of the gut takes place. The fungus is free to spread to other organs in the body once it gains access to the blood stream. The toxins produced by the fungus combined with the effects of the leaky gut can cause serious brain fog, and other symptoms.

This condition ocurred to me in 2002. I had knee surgery, a root canal, and sinus surgery all in the same year. I was given very strong anti biotics for each event, and in addition steriods for both surgeries. My health rapidly deteriorated with each event, and my Dr. could not help me. I saw 5 specialists over the next year and 1/2. I finally got fed up with the regular Drs. and paid cash to see a food allergy specialist M.D. who is very open minded and diagnosed the problem with blood work. His treatment and dietary restrictions helped put the fire under control, but after 7 months it was not out.

He then put me on diflucan for 2 months, and I quickly recoverd from my most severe symptoms. It took another 6 months to feel close to 100% because the healing takes time. I may never be 100%, but I am committed to a healthier lifestyle now, and believe I can prevent that from happening again.

Most people don't get the help they need, or can't make the lifestyle changes required to overcome systemic candida. I think the natural aproach will work great for yeast overgrowth, however I do not believe I would have recovered from systemic candida without anti fungal drugs. The problem is finding an M.D. who has experience diagnosing, and treating it. Most M.D. physicians do not agknowledge it, and that is the sad truth. I hope this helps you. I am happy to share information so feel free to ask.

[smallwood449]

HI I just wondered how safe is it to take diflucan for 2 months? I didn't knwo that was possible. I am game if it would help. I will speak with myDr about it, anymore comments would be helpful, thanks

  captainjack said:

This is a topic I have personal knowledge of. Yeast overgrowth is typically contained in the G.I. tract, and can be triggered by many things. This is generally treated without to much difficulty. Systemic Cadida is entirely different, and is an advanced condition. The yeast overgrowth can transform into the fungal stage and it is at this stage penetration of the gut takes place. The fungus is free to spread to other organs in the body once it gains access to the blood stream. The toxins produced by the fungus combined with the effects of the leaky gut can cause serious brain fog, and other symptoms.

This condition ocurred to me in 2002. I had knee surgery, a root canal, and sinus surgery all in the same year. I was given very strong anti biotics for each event, and in addition steriods for both surgeries. My health rapidly deteriorated with each event, and my Dr. could not help me. I saw 5 specialists over the next year and 1/2. I finally got fed up with the regular Drs. and paid cash to see a food allergy specialist M.D. who is very open minded and diagnosed the problem with blood work. His treatment and dietary restrictions helped put the fire under control, but after 7 months it was not out.

He then put me on diflucan for 2 months, and I quickly recoverd from my most severe symptoms. It took another 6 months to feel close to 100% because the healing takes time. I may never be 100%, but I am committed to a healthier lifestyle now, and believe I can prevent that from happening again.

Most people don't get the help they need, or can't make the lifestyle changes required to overcome systemic candida. I think the natural aproach will work great for yeast overgrowth, however I do not believe I would have recovered from systemic candida without anti fungal drugs. The problem is finding an M.D. who has experience diagnosing, and treating it. Most M.D. physicians do not agknowledge it, and that is the sad truth. I hope this helps you. I am happy to share information so feel free to ask.

[aprilh]

Its pretty safe to take diflucan for 2 months you would just need to make sure your MD or ND monitors your liver enzymes. I have had success with taking herbal antifungals and have been on and off for a year now - treating a systemic candida infection. I also do that with the anti-candida diet.

Herbs like Oregano Oil and Olive Leaf are very strong and can do the trick for some people. You have to really watch your diet along with the antifungals. YOu cannot feed the yeast while trying to kill the yeast. Its also important to rotate antifungals because the yeast can be very stubborn and become immune to certain antifungals. I have heard anywhere from 5 days to 2 weeks, then switch. Pau D'Arco, caprylic acid, oregano oil, olive leaf, GSE, fresh garlic, ect are all antifungals.

If you find that each time your candida problem comes back after a rigorous effort of getting it under control, then you might need to look into "underlying" issues that stress the immune system. Candida is found in the gut normally, but its when the immune system is under constant stress that it allows the overgrowth to take over time and time again.

For me, it was IV antibiotics during delivery of both my children, then oral antibiotics that I took for all the sinus infections I got thereafter. (candida was causing the sinus issues - i just didn't know it at the time). But also around the same time I was exposed to mold and heavy metals which comprimised my immune system even further.

There is a candida thread under this section of the forum with more good information. We are trying to support eachother with the diet.

Also some more good resources are:

www.wholeapproach.com/diet

www.wholeapproach.com

www.yeastconnection.com

April

[moldlady]

Great Advice April,

I was on diflucan for a month but unfortunately I did not know about the diet at the time and it did not cure me. If I'd known about the diet, I think I would have been cured. I also had prescriptions for nystatin at the same time to clear the intestines. The nystatin does not go into the blood stream but the diflucan does.

Since fungus causes mycotoxin release when it is killed off you may experience some die off reactions if you are very systemic. Detox. baths are great for this or sweating to help the liver detox.

moldlady

[adrianpaul04]

  lorka150 said:

I read somewhere on the forum that candida overgrowth and systematic candida are different - or there are different types. The internet googling led me to a lot of 'product' websites, so I am unsure of what is what. Can someone clear up the differences for me, please?

Thanks!

I my name is Debbie I am from Phila. I have a lot of GI problems. I was diagnosed with Baterial Overgrowth, Mal absorption, colleagenous collitis. Everyday is an issue for me. It seems no matter what I eat I was running to the bathroom. I usually eat a prezel or bagel, or even cereal nothing heavy and still had to get to the bathroom in a hurry. I re-visited my GI doctor again and he decided to test me for celiac, so in the mean time I went on a gluten free diet and feel so much better. When I got my results back it was negative. I am going to stay away from gluten for I feel better. I think I am going to ask my family doctor to send me to a doctor to test me to see if I just have an allergy to gluten.

Can anyone suggest what else I should get tested for, and does happen to others? I have been suffering for years with diagnosis but no real cure

Please help

[moldlady]

  adrianpaul04 said:

I my name is Debbie I am from Phila. I have a lot of GI problems. I was diagnosed with Baterial Overgrowth, Mal absorption, colleagenous collitis. Everyday is an issue for me. It seems no matter what I eat I was running to the bathroom. I usually eat a prezel or bagel, or even cereal nothing heavy and still had to get to the bathroom in a hurry. I re-visited my GI doctor again and he decided to test me for celiac, so in the mean time I went on a gluten free diet and feel so much better. When I got my results back it was negative. I am going to stay away from gluten for I feel better. I think I am going to ask my family doctor to send me to a doctor to test me to see if I just have an allergy to gluten.

Can anyone suggest what else I should get tested for, and does happen to others? I have been suffering for years with diagnosis but no real cure

Please help

Your statements are a bit vague to me but I will try. The overgrowth of bacteria concerns me. Was it good bacteria or bad bacteria? Did they find any yeast/fungus overgrowth?

From what I've read, one has to be eating gluten for a while and then have the test in order to show a positive. You went off the glutin and then the test showed nothing. If you are to be tested again, be sure and eat gluten continually.

If you feel so much better when not eating gluten it probably calms down any inflmmation in the intestines. Maybe this is all you need????

Do you have any heavy metal issues?

moldlady

[dbmamaz]

Ok, a few yeast questions - i've had chronic vaginal yeast infections all my adult life, with a break after my first pregnancy. I had nystatin a few times, with good relief. More recently, a doctor gave me diflucan - i woke up in the middle of the night with awful cramping and D so bad I was clenching fingernails in to the tp roll trying not to scream, and i was covered w goosebumps. I assumed it was a bad reaction to the diflucan, and was going to ask for more nystatin . . . .but could it have been a major die-off instead?

also, i'd read that raspberry was also antifungal and i've started on raspberry leaf tea (plain) twice a day - its nauseating me a little, but was wondering if that was also die off related?

[moldlady]

  dbmamaz said:

Ok, a few yeast questions - i've had chronic vaginal yeast infections all my adult life, with a break after my first pregnancy. I had nystatin a few times, with good relief. More recently, a doctor gave me diflucan - i woke up in the middle of the night with awful cramping and D so bad I was clenching fingernails in to the tp roll trying not to scream, and i was covered w goosebumps. I assumed it was a bad reaction to the diflucan, and was going to ask for more nystatin . . . .but could it have been a major die-off instead?

also, i'd read that raspberry was also antifungal and i've started on raspberry leaf tea (plain) twice a day - its nauseating me a little, but was wondering if that was also die off related?

dbmamma,

Sometimes going gluten free will take care of yeast infections and inflammations. Get some good probiotics in there to re establish natural flora. Make sure it is human types. Natren has the best.

I don't know how much diflucan you are getting but it sounds like major die off reaction. Go slow at the beginning to take it easy on your system. If you are taking one a day, maybe alternate days for a week or so and then l a day. Take a detox bath to excrete toxins from the skin.

Activated charcoal at night with a glass of water will absorb toxins too. So do blueberries or cranberries. But do not take the AC with medications as it will absorb them and not let them get into your blood stream.

Nystatin in combination with diflucan is a sure way to get it all out of your system. Nystatin stays in the digestive tract killing off fungus and the diflucan is systemic killing. Eat very carefully not to feed any fungus (starve it), and then the drugs will kill it off.

How long are you on the diflucan? one month? two?

moldlady

[dbmamaz]

  moldlady said:

How long are you on the diflucan? one month? two?

moldlady

My ob-gyn gave me the diflucan - it was a one-pill treatment and she gave me 12 refills, telling me to take 1 every month if i needed to ( i said the yeast always comes back at ovulation ). When my a.l.c.a.t igg tests came back positive for candida among other things, i've tried to cut back on the sugar (no more 2-3 candy canes per day and several handfuls of marshmallows after every meal, but i'm still eating up the milk-free chocolates dh gave me for xmas - 1/day) - but cutting back on fruit is hard because the test showed me sensitive to over 50 foods, so theres so little i CAN eat.

Part of why i was thinking of working on the yeast was because i was sensitive to so many different foods, i figured its probably leaky gut, and the chronic infections pt that way too . . . so while i wouldnt be suprised the yeast clears up from going gluten free, i want to be sure to get healing as fast as possible so i can try reintroducing some foods back.

sometimes its all pretty overwhelming, because i alway said i wasnt really sick, i just got headaches most afternoons, was so exhausted all the time, had a sensitive stomach, and was very moody . . . . and so down on myself for not being able to keep up w the kids and the house . . . and the though of being able to be better ... kinda obsessing over it right now .. .

[moldlady]

  dbmamaz said:

My ob-gyn gave me the diflucan - it was a one-pill treatment and she gave me 12 refills, telling me to take 1 every month if i needed to ( i said the yeast always comes back at ovulation ). When my a.l.c.a.t igg tests came back positive for candida among other things, i've tried to cut back on the sugar (no more 2-3 candy canes per day and several handfuls of marshmallows after every meal, but i'm still eating up the milk-free chocolates dh gave me for xmas - 1/day) - but cutting back on fruit is hard because the test showed me sensitive to over 50 foods, so theres so little i CAN eat.

Part of why i was thinking of working on the yeast was because i was sensitive to so many different foods, i figured its probably leaky gut, and the chronic infections pt that way too . . . so while i wouldnt be suprised the yeast clears up from going gluten free, i want to be sure to get healing as fast as possible so i can try reintroducing some foods back.

sometimes its all pretty overwhelming, because i alway said i wasnt really sick, i just got headaches most afternoons, was so exhausted all the time, had a sensitive stomach, and was very moody . . . . and so down on myself for not being able to keep up w the kids and the house . . . and the though of being able to be better ... kinda obsessing over it right now .. .

Hmmmm.... Seems to me that the diflucan is not enough. Get some really good antifungals to take the rest of the time. You must stop feeding the fungus.... no sugars or it will just keep coming back. Basically, the plan is to starve the fungus and then to kill it off with antifungals and then put good bacteria in its place.

Feeling bad can be a reaction to just not being well and it takes a toll. If it is more than that you may have some other issues going on too. Have you had trouble with car sickness?

It is possible you may have heavy metal problems that have beat up your immune sytem to the point that it cannot keep the fungus in check.

Fungus can also mess with the brain. Have you had brain fog especially when eating a lot of sugar? If you are craving all the wrong things, you definately have fungus systemically.

moldlady

[dbmamaz]

I was on antibiotics for years for acne, and thats when the yeast started. i never put 2 and 2 together until this week. Also, i went thru a terribly stressful time 1-2 years ago and i'm just starting to recover. I think the stress kicked up all the mild health problems i was having. I have always had an immense sweet tooth - i would keep candy at my desk (not usually chocolate, just sugar candy, like peppermint patties and twizzler bites) and eat them slowly throughout the day. I've cut way back this week, and i'm feeling ok about it. I think the real sugar cravings started during my first pregnancy and i had yeast the entire time. I am also taking acidopholous, have been since the diflucan episode 6 mo ago. I always feel like i'm spacey, too - brain fog, i guess.

I'll try to get to a dr to get some antifungals soon . . .

[moldlady]

  dbmamaz said:

I was on antibiotics for years for acne, and thats when the yeast started. i never put 2 and 2 together until this week. Also, i went thru a terribly stressful time 1-2 years ago and i'm just starting to recover. I think the stress kicked up all the mild health problems i was having. I have always had an immense sweet tooth - i would keep candy at my desk (not usually chocolate, just sugar candy, like peppermint patties and twizzler bites) and eat them slowly throughout the day. I've cut way back this week, and i'm feeling ok about it. I think the real sugar cravings started during my first pregnancy and i had yeast the entire time. I am also taking acidopholous, have been since the diflucan episode 6 mo ago. I always feel like i'm spacey, too - brain fog, i guess.

I'll try to get to a dr to get some antifungals soon . . .

Mama,

Oh yeah those sugar cravings will really feed the fungus and mess up your immune system. Try and get off of that slowly as you will start to feel differently until your body adjusts. Try and substitute something healthy to snack on that will not do this. Grapefruit, blueberries, etc. Carrot sticks... but not too many of those. Just to get you off the candy.

I also had tons of antibiotics when I was young and killed off all the normal flora which sets us up for fungal overgrowth.

Keep up the the probiotics no matter what you do.

Your doc might not give you any more antifungals because they are being "watched" if they prescribe too much of this.

It would be nice to get a month's supply of diflucan and nystatin and eat no sugar or white processed anything. That would be huge! Don't be surprised if you can't get them ....

If you do get that then start off slowly. Maybe even a half a pill each day and build up to l and so forth.

moldlady

[adrianpaul04]

  moldlady said:

Your statements are a bit vague to me but I will try. The overgrowth of bacteria concerns me. Was it good bacteria or bad bacteria? Did they find any yeast/fungus overgrowth?

From what I've read, one has to be eating gluten for a while and then have the test in order to show a positive. You went off the glutin and then the test showed nothing. If you are to be tested again, be sure and eat gluten continually.

If you feel so much better when not eating gluten it probably calms down any inflmmation in the intestines. Maybe this is all you need????

Do you have any heavy metal issues?

moldlady

I guess it was bad bacterial, my Dr said I would have it forever. I was on Xifaxan, but my Dr said to go off of it since I was still suffering. I had only stopped eating a day without gluten,My Dr said that would not of made a difference, he was testing for Celiac. I have ommited gluten all together and do feel a whoe of lot better. I don't know if I should ask my Dr to send me to an allergist but I don't know if they have a test for that. If you know of one let me know

[moldlady]

  adrianpaul04 said:

I guess it was bad bacterial, my Dr said I would have it forever. I was on Xifaxan, but my Dr said to go off of it since I was still suffering. I had only stopped eating a day without gluten,My Dr said that would not of made a difference, he was testing for Celiac. I have ommited gluten all together and do feel a whoe of lot better. I don't know if I should ask my Dr to send me to an allergist but I don't know if they have a test for that. If you know of one let me know

He said you were stuck with the bad bacteria the rest of your life.??? I don't believe that. GEt some oregano oil that will kill off fungus and bad bacteria. The resupply the body with good probiotics. And just keep pumping that stuff into your system!

If you feel better after giving up the gluten then that's great! On the road to recovery already. Sometimes we know our own bodies better than the tests can show. All my tests came back inconclusive and I still felt terrible. So, tests do not always show what we need to know.

I get this ginger tea that really calms inflammation too. I get the ginger root tea from ... Alvita company. I can use 1 bad many times and still get some ginger out of it. Great stuff.

moldlady

[aprilh]

Good to know that ginger calms inflammation, Moldlady. I think I am having some inflammatory responses in my liver/ gallbladder area. I think I'll try that. I always have fresh ginger root on hand for cooking. I can boil it to make my tea.

adrian,

I agree with Moldlady. You can get rid of fungus. The only bacteria I have heard that can stick with you is C-diff and you can take a specific strain of probiotic to counteract this. I am not totally sure on this, I just remember another girl posting about this on another forum.

Do you remember ML? It was Chigirl. She had c-diff and maybe the reason she will always have it is because she works in a hospital where she is constantly exposed??????

Can you look back on your test results and find out what bacteria this was? I have a good reference book called, Bacteria For Breakfast, that might can help us point to what specific probiotics you will need for that.

April

[moldlady]

  aprilh said:

Good to know that ginger calms inflammation, Moldlady. I think I am having some inflammatory responses in my liver/ gallbladder area. I think I'll try that. I always have fresh ginger root on hand for cooking. I can boil it to make my tea.

adrian,

I agree with Moldlady. You can get rid of fungus. The only bacteria I have heard that can stick with you is C-diff and you can take a specific strain of probiotic to counteract this. I am not totally sure on this, I just remember another girl posting about this on another forum.

Do you remember ML? It was Chigirl. She had c-diff and maybe the reason she will always have it is because she works in a hospital where she is constantly exposed??????

Can you look back on your test results and find out what bacteria this was? I have a good reference book called, Bacteria For Breakfast, that might can help us point to what specific probiotics you will need for that.

April

Hi April,

Yes, I remember someone having that problem. I'm thinking that human probiotics from Natren are strong enough to push out that bad bacteria. Sometimes the bad bacteria and fungus form biofilms that work to symbiotically protect each other. Maybe this is what the doc was getting at??? If you knock out that fungus then the bacteria goes with it. Natren's healthy trinity packs a pretty good punch on that stuff. They also have a strain that produces H2O2 naturally that kills off fungus and bad bacteria and wipes them out.

Boy, I would keep trying to get the stubborn strains out and I would not give up. I truly believe that the body wants to be well if we can just give it a fightin' chance!!

moldlady