Reverse-Engineering Udi's Bread

[RiceGuy]

How would milk make a difference compared to using water?

AFAIK, milk would make a more moist consistency, and softer crust. Partly due to fat, and partly due to casein. Other components of the milk may play a part too, but those two would be the primary ones I'd think.

[Maggie Mermaid]

Yes, I always take bread out of the pan immediately.

This bread is amazing. DH said it felt like angel food cake in look & texture (but that's not a bad thing).

Thank you. Yes, the Udi's bread is very soft and fluffy, like wheat-based bread.

[Maggie Mermaid]

Maggie,

They have the egg white powder at WF and Sprouts

Janie

Aha! Thank you very much. Sprouts was next on my list. Henry's has 3 oz. for $7.50 or so. I am also going to call the fitness nutrition store just to see if they carry plain dried egg whites.

[Maggie Mermaid]

Thanks to RiceGuy and 2Boys4Me for tips on temps for getting dough to rise. It's about 60 or so in the house at night so a warmish oven (without drafts) sounds right.

[TrillumHunter]

Aha! Thank you very much. Sprouts was next on my list. Henry's has 3 oz. for $7.50 or so. I am also going to call the fitness nutrition store just to see if they carry plain dried egg whites.

I buy mine in bulk from an online bodybuilding store. It's ridiculously cheap.

I'm down with a bad cold and ear infections, so no baking for me.

[Wolicki]

I buy mine in bulk from an online bodybuilding store. It's ridiculously cheap.

I'm down with a bad cold and ear infections, so no baking for me.

It was NOT ridiculously cheap at Sprouts. $13.95 for a pot about the size of a small can of nuts

[TrillumHunter]

Yeah, I know. I used to pay that before I was gluten-free and used so many.

I paid about $15 for 2 pounds.

If you have a cake decorating store near you, you might find it in bulk there.

[halfrunner]

I can't blame it on being blond...I'm just a ditz.

I forgot to mention that I used 1/2 tsp. of cream of tartar to keep the egg whites stiff after beating so they'd hold up during the folding process. When the egg whites start turning white and slightly fluffy, add the cream of tartar and continue to beat until very stiff.

I'm also going to amend the recipe a pinch where I posted my original.

[RiceGuy]

If the powdered egg whites are so expensive, fresh ones will certainly work. Just remember to reduce the water by the total volume of the egg whites. According to the USDA, one egg white from a large egg is about 2 Tbsp. Jumbo eggs will probably be more. It seems best to simply measure them rather than guess.

[halfrunner]

If the powdered egg whites are so expensive, fresh ones will certainly work. Just remember to reduce the water by the total volume of the egg whites. According to the USDA, one egg white from a large egg is about 2 Tbsp. Jumbo eggs will probably be more. It seems best to simply measure them rather than guess.

If you go that route, it's best to weigh out the egg whites.

By the way, my bag of egg white solids say that 2 tsp. = 1 egg white, so you'd need 2 extra egg whites to compensate for the egg white solids.

[RiceGuy]

If you go that route, it's best to weigh out the egg whites.

By the way, my bag of egg white solids say that 2 tsp. = 1 egg white, so you'd need 2 extra egg whites to compensate for the egg white solids.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you adding up the gram weight of the ingredients?

[halfrunner]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you adding up the gram weight of the ingredients?

Basically, you want replace the weight of water with the weight of the egg whites. After several years of working as a candy maker I learned a few things about weights versus measures. Measuring the egg whites with a measuring cup will not accurately replace the same amount of water. Weighing the egg whites will give you an accurate volume measurement and be less likely to screw up the recipe.

[RiceGuy]

Basically, you want replace the weight of water with the weight of the egg whites. After several years of working as a candy maker I learned a few things about weights versus measures. Measuring the egg whites with a measuring cup will not accurately replace the same amount of water. Weighing the egg whites will give you an accurate volume measurement and be less likely to screw up the recipe.

I see. And I agree that there may need to be some sort of compensation to get the same actual amount of egg white. However, since it is the water content which is removed from the egg whites to yield the solids, why wouldn't it be the water which is adjusted to get the proper weight? Especially given the fact that more or less solids would yield a different amount of nutrients than would the number of fresh egg whites called for in the recipe.

[halfrunner]

I see. And I agree that there may need to be some sort of compensation to get the same actual amount of egg white. However, since it is the water content which is removed from the egg whites to yield the solids, why wouldn't it be the water which is adjusted to get the proper weight? Especially given the fact that more or less solids would yield a different amount of nutrients than would the number of fresh egg whites called for in the recipe.

Maybe I should clarify...I'm not suggesting that you replace all of the water with the egg whites. I'm just saying that if you want to use real egg whites, you need to reduce the water by the total volume of the egg whites. (ie, if you have 2 oz. of egg whites, you need 2 oz. less water.)

I've gotten to the point where the cost of the powdered egg whites is worth getting consistent results in a few of my recipes that use egg white solids. (I totally get that some can't or don't want to spend the money on dried egg whites.) But there does seem to be a very fine line when making substitutions in gluten-free baking and getting successful results.

On the upside, if the dough is really stiff and appears to be more like cookie dough that really thick cake batter (or banana bread batter), you can add more liquid to soften the batter (before you fold in the egg whites). I've found that the reverse is not true if you get too much water into the batter, given some of my failures in trying to get bread to come out well.

[Maggie Mermaid]

FWIW, here are the Wilton meringue powder ingredients: corn starch, egg whites, sugar, gum arabic (emulsifier), calcium sulfate, citric acid, cream of tartar, silicon dioxide (anticaking agent), & artifical flavors.

Nutrition Facts:

Serving Size: 2 tsp (6g)

Calories: 20

Total Fat: 0

Total Carbs: 3g

Sugars less than 1g

Protein: 2g

Calcium 4%

Also on their label:

2 tsp. Meringue powder + 2 TBSP water = 1 egg white

$4.99 for 4 oz. @ Michaels

Also comes in 8 oz. ($7.99) & 16 oz. ($16.99) containers

Haven't had time to try it out on the bread recipe but note that it does have sugar which needs to be taken into consideration as the recipe does call for sugar.

[RiceGuy]

Maybe I should clarify...I'm not suggesting that you replace all of the water with the egg whites. I'm just saying that if you want to use real egg whites, you need to reduce the water by the total volume of the egg whites. (ie, if you have 2 oz. of egg whites, you need 2 oz. less water.)

I've gotten to the point where the cost of the powdered egg whites is worth getting consistent results in a few of my recipes that use egg white solids. (I totally get that some can't or don't want to spend the money on dried egg whites.) But there does seem to be a very fine line when making substitutions in gluten-free baking and getting successful results.

On the upside, if the dough is really stiff and appears to be more like cookie dough that really thick cake batter (or banana bread batter), you can add more liquid to soften the batter (before you fold in the egg whites). I've found that the reverse is not true if you get too much water into the batter, given some of my failures in trying to get bread to come out well.

Oh! Yes, I agree. Seems we've both been saying basically the same thing, though I've been thinking water volume rather than water weight. Incidentally, how much does one egg white worth of the dry powder weigh?

[halfrunner]

Oh! Yes, I agree. Seems we've both been saying basically the same thing, though I've been thinking water volume rather than water weight. Incidentally, how much does one egg white worth of the dry powder weigh?

I have no idea. I measured it by the tsp. I need to make a loaf this weekend, so if you want, I can try to remember to check. I tend to only weigh out flours, sugar, and liquid ingredients for the most part.

[RiceGuy]

I have no idea. I measured it by the tsp. I need to make a loaf this weekend, so if you want, I can try to remember to check. I tend to only weigh out flours, sugar, and liquid ingredients for the most part.

According to the USDA, 1 tsp is about 2.33 grams. It will be interesting to see how much the product you have weighs. Hopefully it is stated on the label.

[halfrunner]

According to the USDA, 1 tsp is about 2.33 grams. It will be interesting to see how much the product you have weighs. Hopefully it is stated on the label.

The ones I buy come in bulk, so they come in a plastic bag. I'm lucky that they have instructions. I weighed them out when I made a loaf of bread for DH today. The 4 1/2 tsp. weighed 14 grams.

[RiceGuy]

The ones I buy come in bulk, so they come in a plastic bag. I'm lucky that they have instructions. I weighed them out when I made a loaf of bread for DH today. The 4 1/2 tsp. weighed 14 grams.

So that'd be slightly heavier than the one I located, which would be about 10.5 grams for 4-1/2 tsp. Any idea if they are glucose reduced? That's the only kind I could find info on.

[halfrunner]

So that'd be slightly heavier than the one I located, which would be about 10.5 grams for 4-1/2 tsp. Any idea if they are glucose reduced? That's the only kind I could find info on.

Mine are just egg whites. Nothing else.

[RiceGuy]

Mine are just egg whites. Nothing else.

Yeah, but apparently there's a certain amount of glucose in powdered egg white, which is often purposely reduced. I'm just wondering if that might account for the weight discrepancy. No big deal really.

[halfrunner]

Yeah, but apparently there's a certain amount of glucose in powdered egg white, which is often purposely reduced. I'm just wondering if that might account for the weight discrepancy. No big deal really.

That would make sense. But you'd think that the glucose would show up on the ingredients then.

[RiceGuy]

That would make sense. But you'd think that the glucose would show up on the ingredients then.

Not when it's naturally occurring.

[Maggie Mermaid]

Udi's White Sandwich Bread

Approximated Ingredients:

1/2 C Tapioca Flour/Starch

1/4 C + 1/2 Tbsp Rice Flour, brown

3 Tbsp Potato Starch

1-1/2 Tbsp Vegetable Oil

3 Egg Whites, large

1-1/2 Tbsp Sugar

1 tsp Yeast

3/4 tsp Xanthan Gum

1/2 tsp Salt

1/2 tsp Baking Powder

3/4 C Water

Here's how my recipe compares to Udi's Nutritionally:

	Calories	Total Fat	Sodium	Total Carbs	Fiber	Sugars	Protein

Udi's	140		4g		270mg	22g		1g	3g	3g

Mine	135		3.7g		263mg	23.2g		0.8g	3.2g	2.5g

As you can see, it's pretty close, especially considering that Udi's numbers are rounded off. Though obviously, that doesn't ensure a similar loaf. One thing I'm not sure of is the amount of water. Since water doesn't effect the nutrients given on the label, I can't calculate it. Plus, the starches are surely a determining factor. But, not using them myself, I can only make an educated guess. How does it look to you?

Another area I'm not totally confident about is the amount of xanthan gum. The eggs act as a binder, but the oil will reduce their effectiveness, as well as that of the gum. Opinions anyone?

Fourth or maybe fifth attempt results based on the above recipe but attempting to use meringue powder instead of dried egg whites with the following changes:

1/2 C Tapioca Flour/Starch

1/4 C + 1/2 Tbsp Rice Flour, brown

3 Tbsp Potato Starch (decreased to 2 1/2 TBSP because meringue powder has cornstarch as it's first ingredient)

1-1/2 Tbsp Vegetable Oil

3 Egg Whites, large (used 10 tsp meringue powder which is equivalent to 5 egg whites)

1-1/2 Tbsp Sugar (left out because meringue powder has sugar listed as it's 3rd ingredient, egg whites were 2nd)

1 tsp Yeast

3/4 tsp Xanthan Gum

1/2 tsp Salt

1/2 tsp Baking Powder

3/4 C Water (used 10 TBSP water because meringue powder required 2 TBSP water per 2 tsp meringue powder to equal 1 egg white)

(Added 1 tsp. apple cider vinegar to replace ascorbic acid which was on bread wrapper label)

Whipped meringue powder per directions until stiff peaks were formed and folded dry ingredients into egg whites.

Let it rise (until 1 1/2 times it's original size) & baked in a preheated oven.

On one hand, it browned nicely and the inside was baked into a reasonable texture, no gummy layer at the bottom. On the other hand, it did not rise nearly the height of the store-bought bread.

Does it need more yeast? Warmer water? Longer rise time? Any ideas?