Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

And A Question About Enzymes


breavenewworld

Recommended Posts

breavenewworld Apprentice

I


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



Lisa Mentor
I’ve been reading about how digestive enzymes are manufactured, and my big question is wether or not celiacs should take enzymes. The answer could be yes, no, or SOME (which is what i suspect the answer is).

In the U.S., every enzyme company gets their enzymes from 3 source distributors, all of which use gluten-containing cereal grains and a form of mold/fungus like aspergillus orzae or aspergillus niger in the production of some digestive enzymes. the fungal organism is placed on trays of fermenting stuff that most always includes grains, they secrete enzymes, and then the whole mixture is put through a separation process which usually involves some of the following (none of which i understand): alcohol precipitation of the enzyme proteins, centrifugation, gel filtration, molecular sieving. So, there are many fungi-grain enzymes and I believe these are known as “plant-based”. But there are also some fruit-based enzymes extracted straight from food, and some animal-based enzymes like from the pancreas of pigs. At some point in the process MALTODEXTRIN is used when deriving and stabilizing the enzymes. This contains gluten and many celiacs react to it. Companies don’t have to include it on their ingredients lists because it’s not an “additive,” it’s just part of the process of deriving the enzymes. But some maltodextrin probably ends up being part of the enzyme matrix. ALL the raw enzymes distributors in the U.S. use maltodextrin in the process of obtaining MICROBIALLY-DERIVED enzymes.

The enzyme producers adhere to strict extraction guidelines and claim that none of the mold or grain is left in the finished product. But is a fact that people with a mold allergy react negatively to the “plant-based” enzymes including phytase and alpha-galactosidase made from aspergillus niger, so I don’t know if I believe the companies’ claims that none of it remains. There could, however, be some other thing happening in those people’s bodies when they take the enzymes such as a cross reaction with the enzyme itself if their immune systems have somehow associated the enzyme protein with the mold it came from. I don’t know.

This all leads me to suspect that a very sensitive celiac (me) who reacts to the slightest amount of gluten, including maltodextrin, might not be safe taking enzymes that were produced on and in big vats of gluten, then processed using maltodextrin.

So... zyme

Is there a chance that any part of the grains is in the enzymes, either because it could still remain after the extraction process or because the enzymes themselves might have some component of the grain somehow?

Would it be safer to only take fruit and animal-derived enzymes, or would they have just as likely a chance of containing grain stuffs?

Let me know your opinion, and feel free to forward to any enzyme experts you might know. Thank you so much!!

Would you kindly state your source. The bolded (by me) statement is untrue and I have serious concerns about the remaining statements.

jackay Enthusiast

I am definitely interested in learning more about this.

About 18 months ago I was put on a digestive enzyme because of some nutritional deficiencies. I thought I was tolerating it O.K. I started seeing a naturopath who said I didn't need it so I discontinued it. About six months ago I had GI panel done that suggested low pancreatic exocrine output. My doctor had me start the digestive enzyme again. This time around, it really bothered me with lots of gurgling, gas and pain. My doctor told me to quit using it.

The digestive enzyme I was using states it is formulated to be free of allergens derived from gluten, yeast, artificial colors and flavors. The brand is Ortho Molecular Products and contains pancreatin, betaine hcl, pepsin, ox bile and bromelain and papain. So does it or does it not contain gluten and yeast? Did I react to the digestive enzymes themselves, gluten or yeast?

It is tough knowing what to do. My GI panel indicates that I need digestive enzymes. Is taking them (any brand0 going to add to my problems? For the time being, I will not take them.

Lisa Mentor

When I initially took digestive enzymes (early into my gluten free diet) I could not handle it. I gave it up for a while and discovered one without dairy and I handled it quite well.

Many people highly recommend them.

breavenewworld Apprentice

i'm sorry i forgot to state the source!

one website is:

Open Original Shared Link

Lisa Mentor
i'm sorry i forgot to state the source!

one website is:

Open Original Shared Link

I believe there is more current, more reliable information out there.

Open Original Shared Link

You might find this interesting:

Specific Enzymes Produced by the Body to Aid Digestion

Our bodies produce numerous digestive enzymes. The following are enzymes and their actions:

* Amylase for carbohydrate digestion or breakdown into simple sugars

* Protease for large chain protein molecules to make smaller protein molecules

* Peptidase for small protein molecules to make amino acids

* Lipase for fat (triglycerides) breakdown

* Lactase for milk sugar (lactose) breakdown

* Cellulase for breaking down the fibrous plant matter cellulose

* Maltase for the breakdown of malt sugar

* Invertase for the breakdown of sucrose (table sugar)

* Chymotrypsin for large protein chains

* Trypsin for large protein chains

* Pancreatin for the breakdown of protein, carbohydrate, and fats

* The enzymes that have affect protein molecules are proteolytic enzymes.

Digestive Enzyme Supplements

Digestive enzymes are sourced commercially from animal or plants/fungi. The fermentation of various fungi produces the enzymes amylase, protease, peptidase, lipase, lactase, and cellulase. During production of digestive enzymes, microbial filtration ensures there is no fungal residue. Chymotrypsin, trypsin, and pancreatin are pancreatic enzymes, which are from animal products.

Plant based supplements are more stable and able to survive a greater pH than animal based or pancreatic enzymes. Gastric acid tends to destroy animal derived enzymes more easily than plant based enzymes. Some manufacturers, with the use of enteric-coated enzyme supplements, have overcome this problem. Enteric coating is a coating which inhibits the product from dissolving in the stomach. It dissolves in the intestine where there is less stomach acid. This may affect the clinical use of the product; however, as the enzyme supplement will not be effective for the stomach or upper small intestine. Additionally, plant-based digestive enzymes have a broader range of digestive enzyme activity.

Digestive Enzymes Health Benefits: Aid Digestion and Reduce Food Allergies

The main health benefit of general digestive enzyme supplements is in the support of the digestive process. A human and animal study found both fungal and pancreatic enzymes improved malabsorption and malnutrition, while producing a healthier stool weight and fat excretion. Theoretically, digestive enzymes can also work by breaking down dietary proteins that enter the bloodstream due to inflammatory conditions or a breakdown in the gut mucosa barrier. When these proteins travel from the gut to the bloodstream inappropriately, they can cause an immune reaction such as food allergies. Digestive enzymes may reduce this allergic reaction by breaking down these proteins and reducing an immune response.

Read more at Suite101: The Health Benefits of Digestive Enzymes: Enzyme Supplements Aid Digestion and Food Allergies Open Original Shared Link

Jestgar Rising Star

A quick google search turned up nothing to support the claims from that site. And I don't understand....maltodextrin is produced from corn starch, so how could it have gluten?


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



breavenewworld Apprentice

thank you guys for your feedback! i'm still checking all this out and deciding what i think :)

yes maltodextrin is corn derived in the US - i react to corn as well as gluten so for me that's an issue...

the gluten would come in to play because the organisms the enzyme companies use to are placed onto a food source mixture which includes grains. then they secrete enzymes which are gathered and mixed with maltodextrin which somehow stabilizes or preserves them. then they're brought through a purification process and theoretically would be just enzymes after that. but some people that have celiac react to them for some reason, and knowing that they've been in direct contact with grains and that the organisms they were gathered from had created them by digesting grains makes me nervous.

i think i will try the animal and fruit - derived enzymes for now. but i plan on finding an enzyme without ox bile because i hear that some people have trouble with that ingredient.

i found a supplement by metagenics that looks like it's derived from pig, but when i emailed to check the company said i have to have my physician write them for that information and purchase it through him. funny because i've ordered things from them online before!? anyway :)

as far as support for the claims of the site, jestgar, were you referring to the claims about how enzymes are made? i contacted an enzyme scientist at a soap company i'm affiliated with and here is what he had to say about the issue: there would be definite contact with gluten at the beginning of the enzyme creation process, but there is a purification process that renders the enzymes gluten free. but he wasn't sure if i would react or not because the organisms had ingested gluten while they made the enzymes. he thinks i would probably not react, but it may be safest to try animal derived.

i feel your pain jackay! i react to *everything* - so i'm nervous to start enzymes. could it be possible you were reacting to the ox bile ... ?

thank u Lisa for more info on the health benefits- i'm excited for the day when i finally find an enzyme i can try, i know they're super helpful!

:)

breavenewworld Apprentice

one more thought from my enzyme scientist friend-

i THINK he's saying there would be a theoretical way that what the fungi ingests would effect the make-up of the enzyme it creates...

"enzymes will bind additional substrates to themselves at other locations other than the active site, also called allosteric binding sites. These sites, once occupied, will continue to be occupied until the substrate is no longer available--even with purification, the substrate will generally remain attached to the enzyme."

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      130,279
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    cruzio
    Newest Member
    cruzio
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.3k
    • Total Posts
      1m

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Dora77
      Sorry for the long post. I’m 18, and I was diagnosed with celiac disease and type 1 diabetes (T1D). My transglutaminase IgA was >128 U/mL, EMA IgA positive twice, and I’m HLA-DQ2 and DQ8 positive. I’ve been completely asymptomatic since diagnosis, even when I cheated with gluten sometimes in the past and used to eat out(2-5 years ago) I don’t get the typical celiac reactions, which makes it really hard to know when (or if) I’ve been glutened. But for the past year, I’ve been the most strict with my diet, and that’s also when a bunch of new issues started. I eat completely glutenfree, never eat out, dont eat food that says „may contain gluten“.   Current Health Problems • Floating, undigested stools for over a year now. Dont think its related to celiac as it was like this since im 17 and not 13-16( i got diagnosed at 13). • Chronic back pain started gradually, worsens with movement, lots of cracking/popping sounds. Been ongoing for a year now. First noticed in the gym. • Abdominal bulge on the right side, not painful but seems to be getting slightly bigger. Doctor didn’t find a hernia on ultrasound, but it was done lying down (I’ve read those can miss hernias). Noticed it like 6 months ago, couldve been there longer. • extremely dry and mildly swollen hands (this started before I started excessive hand-washing), and bloated face. • Signs of inattentive ADHD (noticed over the past 3 years), now combined with severe OCD focused on contamination and cross-contact. • Growth/puberty seemed to started after going gluten-free. Before that I was not developing. Dont know if any of these are because of celiac as my dad doesnt have those and he is a lot less strict gluten-free then me. I also had pancreatic elastase tested four times: values were 46 (very low), 236, 158, and 306 (normal). Gastroenterologist said one normal value is enough and I don’t have EPI. Family doctor prescribed Kreon anyway (after I pushed for it), and I just started taking 1 capsule (10,000 units) with meals 2 days ago, but couldn‘t see effects yet because I’ve been constipated the last few days. Maybe because of thyroid. I don’t have Hashimoto’s. No thyroid antibodies. But I took levothyroxine for slightly low FT4 levels. My thyroid levels fluctuated between borderline low and low-normal. And recently lowered my dose so that may have caused the constipating. I probably didn’t need it in the first place, and am thinking about stopping it soon.   Current Diet Right now, I only eat a very limited set of “safe” foods I prepare myself: • Gluten-free bread with tuna or cheese • Milk and cornflakes • gluten-free cookies/snacks • Bananas (the only fruit I trust right now) I rarely eat other fruits or vegetables, because I’m scared of contamination. My dad, who also has celiac but doesn’t care about CC, buys fruits, and he might’ve picked them up right after handling gluten bread. That makes me feel unsafe eating them. Even fruit at stores or markets feels risky because so many people with gluten on their hands touch them.   My Home Situation (Shared Kitchen) We’re a family of 5. Only my dad and I have celiac. He eats glutenfree but doesn’t care about CC and sometimes (but rarely) cheats. My mom and siblings eat gluten bread at every meal. My mom is honest (so if i ask her to be cautious, she most likely would try to), but doesn’t seem to understand how serious celiac is. She: • Stopped using gluten flour • only cooks gluten-free meals (but they still heat up gluten bread and also cook gluten noodles) • Keeps separate butter/jam/jars for me • Bought me a stainless steel pan Bu we didn’t replace old wooden utensils, cutting boards, or other pans. The new they bought me pan was even carried home in a shopping bag with gluten bread in it, which triggered my OCD. It also has a rubber handle and I’m scared it might still hold onto gluten. Even if it’s washed well, it’s stored next to other pans that were used for gluten food/bread. Our kitchen table is used for eating gluten bread daily. My mom wipes it but not with soap. I’m scared tiny particles remain. If she made gluten-free bread dough on a board at the table, I’d still worry about cross contmaination contamination even with something under the dough and on the table as at one point the dough would probably touch the table. So I stopped eating anything she makes.   I know OCD is making it worse, but I can’t tell how much of my fear is real and how much is anxiety. Examples: • I wash my hands 20–30 times a day — before eating, after touching anything at home or outside, after using my phone/laptop. • I don’t let others touch my phone, and I’m scared to use my laptop because friends at school or my brother (who eat gluten) have touched it. And it annoys me a lot when others touch my stuff and feels like it got contaminated and is unsafe instantly. • I stopped eating while using my phone or laptop, afraid of invisible gluten being on them. • I wash my hands after opening food packaging (since it was on store cashier belts where gluten food is placed). • I avoid sitting anywhere except my bed or one clean chair. • I won’t shake hands with anyone or walk past people eating gluten. • At school, when switching classes, I wash my hands before getting out my laptop, again before opening it, etc. • I open door knobs with my elbows instead my hands   Job Concerns (Powder Coating, Sandblasting, Etc.) I’m working a temporary job right now that involves: • Powder coating • Sandblasting • Wet spray painting • Anodizing There’s also a laboratory. I don’t need this job, and my OCD makes me believe that dust or air particles there might contain gluten somehow. Should I quit?   Doctors Haven’t Helped My family doctor told me: “Asymptomatic celiac isn’t serious, if you have no symptoms, your intestines won’t get damaged, so you don’t need a gluten-free diet.” I knew that was wrong, but he wasn’t open to listening. I just nodded and didn‘t argue. My gastroenterologist (who’s also a dietitian) said: „If your antibodies are negative, there’s no damage. It might even be okay to try small amounts of gluten later if antibodies stay negative.“ Also said, pepper that says “may contain gluten” is fine if it only contains pepper. She was more informed than my family doctor but didn’t seem to fully understand celiac either.   Questions I Need Help With 1. Is it realistically safe to eat food my mom cooks, if we get separate pans/ and boards even if gluten is still used in the same kitchen? There will always be low risk of cc chances like that she will still touch stuff that was touched by her and my siblings after they ate gluten. And as there are gluten eaters in the house and she also prepares and eats gluten. So would opening the fridge then getting the food and touching the food be okay? So basically what i am doing, washing my hands multiple times while preparing food, she would only wash it once before, then touch anything else (for example water tap or handles) that were touched with gluteny hands, then also touch the food. I dont know if I ever could feel safe, I could try telling her how important cc really is. And I trust her so she wouldnt lie to me then be careless about cc, but idk how safe it really can be if she and everyone else keeps eating gluten and touching stuff in the house after eating. 2. Do I need to worry about touching doorknobs, fridge handles, light switches, etc. that family members touched after eating gluten? What about public places like bus handles or school desks? Or like if i went to the gym, I would be touching stuff all the time, so there will be small amounts of gluten and those would get transferred on my phone if I touch my phone while in the gym. But I want to knos if it would be enough to do damage. 3. Is an endoscopy (without biopsy) enough to tell if my intestines are healed? I’d pay privately if it could help and if i dont get a refferal. Or do i need a biopsy? 4. Could my job (powder coating, sandblasting, etc.) expose me to gluten or damage my intestines through air/dust? 5. Do I need certified gluten-free toothpaste, hand soap, shampoo, or moisturizer? (For example: Vaseline and Colgate don’t contain gluten ingredients but say they can’t guarantee it’s gluten-free.) 6. Is spices like pepper with “may contain traces of gluten” safe if no gluten ingredients are listed? Or does everything need to be labeled gluten-free?  7. Is continuing to only eat my own food the better choice, or could I eventually go back to eating what my mom cooks if she’s careful? 8. is cutlery from dishwasher safe if there are stains? Stuff like knives is used for cutting gluten bread or fork for noodles etc. I often see stains which i dont know if its gluten or something else but our dish washer doesnt seem to make it completely clean. 9. I wash my hands multiple times while preparing food. Do i need to do the same when touching my phone. Like if i touch the fridge handle, I wash my hands then touch the phone. I dont eat while using my phone but i leave it on my bed and pillow and my face could come in contact with where it was.  10. Do i need to clean my phone or laptop if theyve been used by people who eat gluten? Even if no crumbs fall onto my keybaord, i mean because of invisible gluten on their fingers. 11. Does medication/supplements have to be strictly glutenfree? One company said they couldn‘t guarantee if their probiotics don’t contain traces of gluten.  12. I had bought supplements in the past, some of them say glutenfree and some of them dont(like the brand „NOW“ from iherb). I bought them and used them when i wasnt washing my hands so often, are they still safe? As I touched and opened them after touching door knobs, water taps etc. It was like a year ago when i bought those and even though i was eating gluten-free, I never worried about what i touch etc. I know this post is long. I’m just extremely overwhelmed. I’m trying to protect myself from long-term health damage, but the OCD is destroying my quality of life, and I honestly don’t know what’s a reasonable level of caution anymore. Thanks for reading.
    • lmemsm
      I've been making a lot of black bean brownies lately because it's one of the few gluten free dessert recipes that actually tastes palatable.  I've also seen chocolate cake recipes with black beans.  Someone mentioned a cookie recipe using lentils in place of flour.  Just wondering if anyone's run across any tried and true recipes using beans, lentils or peas for desserts?  I've seen a lot of recipes for garbanzo flour but I'm allergic to garbanzo beans/chickpeas.  Was wondering if adzuki or pinto beans might be useful in replacing some or all of the flour in baking.  Since gluten free flours can be crumbly was hoping the beans might help produce a better, less crumbly consistency.  Any recommendations for recipes?  Thanks.
    • lmemsm
      I've seen a lot of recipes for chia pudding, so I decided to make some with chia, water, cocoa and honey.  Didn't like the taste, so I added ground sunflower and ground pumpkin seed to it.  It tasted okay, but came out more like frosting that pudding.  I used to make pudding with tapioca starch, milk powder, water and sugar.  It came out very good but I haven't figured out what to use to replace the milk powder to make it dairy free.  Most starches will work in place of tapioca starch but quantity varies depending on the type of starch.  If I didn't add enough starch to get a pudding consistency, I'd add gelatin as well to fix it.  Avocado and cocoa makes a good dessert with a pudding like consistency.  Unfortunately, I have a bad reaction to avocados.
    • lmemsm
      Seems like when I find a gluten free product I like, the producer stops manufacturing it and then I have trouble finding a new gluten free source for it.  What's worse, I've been contacting companies to ask if their products are gluten free and they don't even bother to respond.  So, it's making it very hard to find safe replacements.  I was buying teff flour at nuts.com and they no longer carry it.  I noticed Naturevibe has teff and soy flour.  However, I can't get a response as to whether their flours are safe for someone with celiac.  Can't get a response from Aldi if their peas are safe for someone with celiac either.  I know Bob's Red Mill has teff flour but was hoping to get a large quantity.  I've been using up the 20 ounce Bob's Red Mill teff flour too quickly.  Does anyone know of a good source for teff or soy flour?  Any recommendations where to get gluten free beans, peas or lentils?  I found some packages of gluten free beans at Sprouts but not much variety.  I've also been looking for lentil elbow macaroni and it seems like no one is making that now that Tolerant was bought out.  Any suggestions for safe sources for these types of ingredients.  Thanks.
    • chrish42
      All I can say is this site is great!
×
×
  • Create New...