Jump to content

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Is My Biopsy Wrong?

jlaw

By jlaw
in Dermatitis Herpetiformis

Recommended Posts

jlaw Apprentice
jlaw
Posted

Hi friends, I have been in and out of this forum for a bit and now wanted to update you on the latest twist. After my skin biopsy, i have been gluten-free for nearly a year. After extremely extensive rash (scalp to soles) my skin is now nearly free of active lesions. Lots of the post-lesion marks though! 

We live in India but currently back home in Aus for various reasons for a couple of months. One of the main reasons was that there is a doctor here who specialises in DH right near my hometown. Before my appointment with him, I decided to have some tests done for routine check up. I wanted to have the kids tested for the coeliac genes and while I was there, I had mine done as well, just for fun. And we all came back negative. Yep, that's right. I have a positive DH biopsy, yet negative for the genes. 

So I take this to my DH expert (I really really like him and trust him a lot) who says I am a 'puzzle' but my skin actually looks a lot like lichen planus (anyone else with experience with this??). No mucosal changes though. So he says the only way I can be sure is a gluten challenge. Since I've never had the gut issues really (not that I can feel) I agreed. I have known since a baby I am gluten intolerant, so I'm expecting the usual headaches/fatigue but maybe worth it if I can rule out DH. I still have a lot to get my head around. I have spent a lot of time mentally adjusting to coeliac/DH and maybe all for nothing. Will keep you posted on the gluten challenge. He says it could take 4-6 weeks to get anything decent enough to biopsy, and if no rash comes I can assume it's lichen planus.

 

Any thoughts on this?

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


sisterlynr Explorer
sisterlynr
Posted

Go for it . . . I've not had success with Dapsone or being gluten-free since October of 2012.  Had this horrible rash from head to my feet since February 27, 2012.  I know that date!  My sister was here for vacation and flew home the same day that I broke out.  

 

I just posted about my experience this morning.  Hey, if this isn't responding to gluten-free and Dapsone, let's find out what is going on in my body!

 

Good luck and wish you the best!

 

~ Lyn ~

Adalaide Mentor
Adalaide
Posted

I hate to say it, but it is my opinion that there is no reason to go through the pain and suffering of a gluten trial for a new biopsy if you already had a positive one. The genetic test could actually be wrong. If they didn't do the right test, they wouldn't see the right parts of the genes, and it is now generally understood that there are almost certainly more than those two genes involved. There is no way that the science has entirely determined exactly every gene associated with celiac. And, if you are are going to continue with the challenge, just so you don't end up in the position again later don't stop at a skin biopsy. Go for broke and do both. There is no point walking through hell and only going halfway with the biopsies.

 

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21567/1/Ten-Facts-About-Celiac-Disease-Genetic-Testing/Page1.html

Open Original Shared Link

jlaw Apprentice
jlaw
Posted
  • Author

Lyn is it possible that you could have lichens planus??

 

Adalaide I've not heard of gene tests being inaccurate. Have you heard of cases like this? I'm into day 3 now and still doing ok...

bartfull Rising Star
bartfull
Posted

I wouldn't risk eating gluten if it meant a possibility that the DH would come back. If eating gluten-free cleared up your rash, what difference does it make? No matter if it was true DH or something else, it cleared up, right? And you said you had headaches and fatigue that cleared up too. So, maybe it's NCGI, but either way, you know gluten gives you problems. I'd stick to a gluten-free diet for life.

jlaw Apprentice
jlaw
Posted
  • Author

Thankks Bartfull, but I guess I'm looking at it from the other side. What if it's a chance I don't have DH? I think it's worth it, given that it's such a huge, life long change. Lichen Planus clears up by itself after running its course, so it was not necessarily eating gluten-free that cleared my rash. I will always be eating low gluten regardless because I have had issues since infancy. But there is a big difference in terms of vigilance and lifestyle changes between being intolerant and having coeliacs. 

Adalaide Mentor
Adalaide
Posted

Lyn is it possible that you could have lichens planus??

 

Adalaide I've not heard of gene tests being inaccurate. Have you heard of cases like this? I'm into day 3 now and still doing ok...

 

That first link I provided explains how a genetic test can miss even a DQ2 or 8 gene. The second explains that there is an additional gene involved, DQ7 which is more fully explained in that link. And yes, I have heard of people who are biopsy diagnosed who are then genetically tested and lacking a DQ2 or 8 and then getting a doctor all pissy at them and trying to rescind a diagnosis even though the biopsy was positive and they responded well to the gluten free diet. It isn't like we've exactly mapped the entire human genome... moron doctors.

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


Carol from NYC Newbie
Carol from NYC
Posted

Hi friends, I have been in and out of this forum for a bit and now wanted to update you on the latest twist. After my skin biopsy, i have been gluten-free for nearly a year. After extremely extensive rash (scalp to soles) my skin is now nearly free of active lesions. Lots of the post-lesion marks though! 

We live in India but currently back home in Aus for various reasons for a couple of months. One of the main reasons was that there is a doctor here who specialises in DH right near my hometown. Before my appointment with him, I decided to have some tests done for routine check up. I wanted to have the kids tested for the coeliac genes and while I was there, I had mine done as well, just for fun. And we all came back negative. Yep, that's right. I have a positive DH biopsy, yet negative for the genes. 

So I take this to my DH expert (I really really like him and trust him a lot) who says I am a 'puzzle' but my skin actually looks a lot like lichen planus (anyone else with experience with this??). No mucosal changes though. So he says the only way I can be sure is a gluten challenge. Since I've never had the gut issues really (not that I can feel) I agreed. I have known since a baby I am gluten intolerant, so I'm expecting the usual headaches/fatigue but maybe worth it if I can rule out DH. I still have a lot to get my head around. I have spent a lot of time mentally adjusting to coeliac/DH and maybe all for nothing. Will keep you posted on the gluten challenge. He says it could take 4-6 weeks to get anything decent enough to biopsy, and if no rash comes I can assume it's lichen planus.

 

Any thoughts on this?

I had a similar experience  I had a lichen planus diagnosis, too but tested negatively for DH.  (Not convinced the dr. did the biopsy correctly, however.) A few years earlier, I had a related condition that resulted in a few patches of permanent hair loss. Yet, I was covered with DH so I eliminated gluten and the DH sores went away.  The dr. couldn't explain the discrepancy but said since elimiInating gluten made the rash go away, I should stick with it.  I don't really mind being gluten free anyway.  Seems like people around me mind it more than I do! Oh, I also have another autoimmune condition, Hashimoto's Disease (thyroid). 

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):


  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      132,553
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    Irene Maresca
    Newest Member
    Irene Maresca
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):



  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):

  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Mari
      My only proof

      By Mari · Posted

      I think, after reading this, that you areso traumatized by not being able yo understand what your medical advisors have been  what medical conditions are that you would like to find a group of people who also feel traumatized who would agree with you and also support you. You are on a crusade much as the way the US Cabinet  official, the Health Director of our nation is in trying to change what he considers outdated and incorrect health advisories. He does not have the education, background or experience to be in the position he occupies and is not making beneficial decisions. That man suffered a terrible trauma early in his life when his father was assonated. We see now how he developed and worked himself into a powerful position.  Unless you are willing to take some advice or  are willing to use a few of the known methods of starting on a path to better health then not many of us on this Celiac Forum will be able to join you in a continuing series of complaints about medical advisors.    I am almost 90 years old. I am strictly gluten free. I use 2 herbs to help me stay as clear minded as possible. You are not wrong in complaining about medical practitioners. You might be more effective with a clearer mind, less anger and a more comfortable life if you would just try some of the suggestions offered by our fellow celiac volunteers.  
    • Jmartes71
      My only proof

      By Jmartes71 · Posted

      Thus has got to STOP , medical bit believing us! I literally went through 31 years thinking it was just a food allergy as its downplayed by medical if THEY weren't the ones who diagnosed us! Im positive for HLA-DQ2 which is first celiac patient per Iran and Turkey. Here in the States especially in Cali its why do you feel that way? Why do you think your celiac? Your not eating gluten so its something else.Medical caused me depression. I thought I was safe with my former pcp for 25 years considering i thought everything I went through and going through will be available when I get fired again for health. Health not write-ups my health always come back when you're better.Im not and being tossed away at no fault to my own other than shitty genes.I was denied disability because person said he didn't know how to classify me! I said Im celiac, i have ibs, hernia, sciatica, high blood pressure, in constant pain have skin and eye issues and menopause intensified everything. With that my celiac nightmare began to reprove my disregarded disease to a bunch of clowns who think they are my careteam when they said I didn't have...I feel Im still breathing so I can fight this so no body else has to deal with this nightmare. Starting over with " new care team" and waisting more time on why I think I am when diagnosed in 1994 before food eliminated from my diet. P.s everything i went through I did write to medical board, so pretty sure I will continue to have a hard time.
    • knitty kitty
      Supplements for those Diagnosed with Celiac Disease

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      @Scatterbrain, Thiamine Vitamin B1 and amino acid Taurine work together.  Our bodies can make Taurine from meats consumed.  Our bodies cannot make Thiamine and must consume thiamine from food.  Meat is the best source of B vitamins like Thiamine.   Vegetarians may not make sufficient taurine since they don't eat meat sources of taurine.  Seaweed is the best vegetarian source of taurine. Vegetarians may not consume sufficient Thiamine since few veggies are good sources.  Whole grains, legumes, and nuts and seeds contain thiamine.  Many of these sources can be hard to digest and absorb for people with Celiac disease.   You may find taking the forms of thiamine called Benfotiamine or TTFD (tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) and a B Complex will give the benefits you're looking for better than taurine alone.  
    • knitty kitty
      My only proof

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      @Jmartes71, I went to Doterra's site and had a look around.  The Doterra TerraZyme supplement really jumped out at me.  Since we, as Celiacs, often have digestive problems, I looked at the ingredients.  The majority of the enzymes in this supplement are made using black mold, Aspergillus!  Other enzymes are made by yeast Saccharomyces!  Considering the fact that Celiac often have permeable intestines (leaky gut syndrome), I would be very hesitant to take a product like this.  Although there may not be live black mold or yeast in the product, the enzymes may still cause an immune system response which would definitely cause inflammation throughout the body.   Skin, eyes, and intestines are all made from the same basic type of cells.  Your skin on the outside and eyes can reflect how irritated the intestines are on the inside.  Our skin, eyes, and intestines all need the same vitamins and nutrients to be healthy:  Vitamin A, Niacin B3 and Tryptophan, Riboflavin B2, Biotin B7, Vitamin C, and Omega Threes.  Remember that the eight B vitamins work together.  Just taking high doses of just one, vitamin like B12, can cause a deficiency in the others.  Taking high doses of B12 can mask a Folate B9 deficiency.  If you take B12, please take a B Complex, too.  Thiamine B1 can be taken in high doses safely without toxicity.  Thiamine is needed by itself to produce energy so every cell in the body can function, but Thiamine also works with the other B vitamins to make life sustaining enzymes and digestive enzymes.  Deficiencies in either Niacin, Vitamin C, or Thiamine can cause digestive problems resulting in Pellagra, Scurvy, and Gastrointestinal Beriberi.   If you change your diet, you will change your intestinal microbiome.  Following the Autoimmune Protocol Diet, a Paleo diet, will starve out SIBO bacteria.  Thiamine keeps bacteria in check so they don't get out of control as in SIBO.  Thiamine also keeps MOLDS and Yeasts from overgrowth.   Menopause symptoms and menstrual irregularities are symptomatic of low Vitamin D.   Doctors are not as knowledgeable about malnutrition as we need them to be.  A nutritionist or dietician would be more helpful.   Take control of your diet and nutrition.  Quit looking for a pill that's going to make you feel better overnight.  The Celiac journey is a marathon, not a sprint.   "Let food be your medicine, and let medicine be your food."
    • RUKen
      Are Lindt chocolate balls gluten free?

      By RUKen · Posted

      The Lindt (Lindor) dairy-free oat milk truffles are definitely gluten-free, and (last time I checked) so are the white chocolate truffles and the mint chocolate truffles. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.