Intestinal Yeast Overgrowth And Celiac

[WGibs]

Hi!

I'm hoping that someone can help me understand...I'm still waiting for the results of my second round of blood tests. (the first time around the doc wasn't looking for celiac and just happened to run a couple of the celiac tests as part of my routine blood work. One came back positive, but it wasn't one of the really good ones...AGA, I think.) I still really don't think I have celiac, but who knows? Even if my blood comes back positive, my doctor doesn't believe in going on a gluten-free diet, since I don't show signs of malabsorption. She says to just live on OTC tummy meds to relieve my gastro symptoms. That's a whole other issue of incompatibility between me and my doctor, but anyway...

I've been reading as much as I can, and I came across information on intestinal yeast overgrowth. It has a list of symptoms almost identical to celiac. I started looking into it because my BM this morning had a salty smell. Does salt smell? That's what I associated it with. That made me think of yeast, which I also associate with a salty smell.

So, I'm going to drop off a stool sample on Monday, since that seems to be the diagnostic tool here.

My question, though, is whether celiac causes candida overgrowth or whether candida overgrowth can be the thing that triggers celiac, if you have the genes for it. Or is it most likely one or the other or something else entirely?

My symptoms (all of which are listed under celiac and intestinal yeast overgrowth):

1) constant D

2) bloating, gas, cramps

3) loss of sex drive

4) skin rash

5) low energy -- not total lethargy, just a sense that after a full night's sleep, I'm still not bright-eyed and bushy-tailed

6) some difficulty concentrating

Any thoughts?

Thank you so much!

[Rachel--24]

  Even if my blood comes back positive, my doctor doesn't believe in going on a gluten-free diet, since I don't show signs of malabsorption.  She says to just live on OTC tummy meds to relieve my gastro symptoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is definately one of the worst things I've seen from a doctor on this forum. Well I've read alot of bad advice from doctors but that is just *wrong*!

First of all, thats like saying "well....you have Celiac Disease but just go ahead and ignore that fact and take these pills to mask the symptoms when you get them. Just nevermind about the fact that gluten is causing intestinal damage and will eventually lead to serious complications such as osteoporisis, cancer, autoimmune disease, neurological damage...etc."

If you're tests are positive then the first thing you need to do is get another doctor. In fact, I'd get a new one regardless because that one is just scary IMO.

Yes, yeast overgrowth is common in Celiac or Gluten Sensitivity. The fact that one bloodtest already came back positive indicates you probably have some intolerance to gluten and it could be the cause of your symptoms. You may or may not have celiac but if you are gluten intolerant w/out celiac you would still be causing harm to your body by not following the diet. The treatment is the same for both conditions.

As far as not having malabsorption...did your doctor test you for deficiencies or run a stool test for malabsorption? I dont think a doctor can make that assumption just by looking at you. Also there are plenty of Celiacs who don't show *signs* of malabsorption. You dont have to have weight loss to be Celiac...lots of celiacs are in fact overweight. Sounds like your doctor is unfortunately not up to speed about Celiac.

[WGibs]

Thanks for the quick response, Rachel!

Yes, my doctor is scary. She also told me that she had just given a talk on celiac, which is even scarier. Her lack of malabsorption theory is based on the fact that my routine bloodwork all looks good -- she says that if I had malabsorption, I would have really low cholesterol. I have healthy (non-high) cholesterol, but not absurdly low. Also, while my ferritin was low, she thought it was normal for a menstruating female. I'm not overweight, or underweight. People think of me as thin -- At the lower end of the BMI range for my height, but well within the healthy range. I eat right and exercise, and have always kept tabs on those things. Other than the GI stuff, I feel generally healthy, although when I tried gluten-free for four days, I felt better. I thought I was just in a good mood and didn't associate it with gluten because my GI syptoms continued. But when I went back on gluten for more testing, I felt rotten (worse than before) right away.

Anyway, don't worry because I am certainly not the type to try to cover up my body's signals with meds. I believe in listening to your body. But sometimes, we need the medical profession to help translate the signals.

Yesterday I had blood taken for IgA Ttg Ab and Total Ttg. I think that's right. My AGA came back high (or positive) and something else came back normal, but I can't remember what. I should have written it down or gotten a copy. I will get copies of everything the next time I go.

Thanks for your always helpful input. And for validating my feeling that the doc is nuts. It was surprising, because all the other doctors here in the Bay Area seem to have a healthy respect for natural approaches, even if they themselves are mainstream. I'm with Kaiser Permanente (I saw you're in NorCal, so you're probably familiar) and have been pleasantly surprised about the quality and philosophy of all the doctors until this woman.

Thanks again!

[Rachel--24]

I'm with Kaiser Permanente (I saw you're in NorCal, so you're probably familiar) and have been pleasantly surprised about the quality and philosophy of all the doctors until this woman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, unfortunately I am very familiar with Kaiser here in the Bay Area. Apparantly I've had the opposite experience as you though. Pretty much EVERY doctor I saw was about as knowledgeable as this woman you saw. I suffered for 3 years and my doctors were clueless. The specialists on the other hand are pretty decent. The first GI I saw wasn't that good...he didnt help at all. He sent me for an AIDS test and that was it.

I lucked out with the second GI...he is awesome and knowledgeable about Celiac and gluten intolerance.

I'm leaving Kaiser this month...switching to a PPO. I'm sad about leaving my Endocrinologist and this GI doctor but the GP's are the worst and I just cant deal with them anymore. I tried several different ones but was never able to find anyone half-way decent and my health suffered greatly because of it.

Its not surprising to me that they have killed a few people here in the Bay Area recently. They really need to take more responsibility for the lives they have in their care.

Hopefully I will have better luck in the future. I havent lost ALL faith in doctors yet.

I'm glad you are asking questions and educating yourself rather than blindly listening to your doc. Maybe Kaiser needs to focus more on properly diagnosing Celiac. My doc told me I was his "once in a lifetime" patient. He sent me to a nutritionalist to "help" me with the diet. When I got there she was scrambling for info because she mainly deals with Diabetics and wasnt prepared for me. This is very scary considering we are in the Bay Area and Celiac isn't uncommon or rare. If I'm a "once in a lifetime" patient I am really scared for any Celiac who is still undiagnosed at Kaiser. They may never get a diagnosis.

BTW...I was diagnosed by Enterolab.

[Guest nini]

intestinal yeast overgrowth is one of the symptoms of Celiac, NOT a completely separate condition.

This Dr. sounds really really scary. You had one blood test come up positive, you have tummy symptoms, so, at the very least You ARE gluten intolerant. At this point it really doesn't matter if it's full blown celiac with damage or just intolerance, either way the treatment is the same, the gluten free diet, and you can start it right away. you do not need a dr.s permission to start this diet. do you really want a dx "pre existing condition" of celiac on your health record anyway??? think about it.

[WGibs]

Well, up until this woman, I was really liking Kaiser -- two Ob-Gyn's and a GP have been great. One of the Ob-Gyn's actually told me that to get over an infection, I should spend time each day visualizing the virus leaving my body. I thought that was great that a mainstream doc would think that way.

My GP gave me a dx of celiac from the one blood test. She said I was only the second person she's ever seen get a positive result on the AGA. But I asked for a referral to GI since I thought more than one test was needed. Esp. the AGA -- it's not especially specific to celiac. I got a normal result on a test that was better matched (wish I could remember the name). That's how I ended up with the GI specialist who is crazy.

Rachel - Any chance you go to the Oakland Medical Center? I would love the name of your GI doc who knows about celiac. My open enrollment period just ended, so I'm stuck with Kaiser for at least another year. If things get awful, my parents will help with other options (my mother wants to send me straight to Mayo Clinic, since she thinks they are medical wizards)

I figure I'll get these blood results, and then, whatever they are, try a gluten-free diet (unless I'm getting a biopsy, in which case I'll wait). I did do gluten-free for 4 days, and while my GI stuff didn't change much, I felt more energetic and cheerful. On Day 2, my libido awoke from its slumber (I haven't felt an urge like that in almost two years). I hope this isn't too much info. For me, that was by far the most noticeable change, but I wasn't on the diet long enough to really know.

If I like the results of the gluten-free diet, I will do Enterolab, just for my own interest.

I know it's silly to try to find a dx, if we can find something that makes us feel better. I'm not saying I won't go gluten-free if that makes me feel better, but as far as dealing with family, etc...it's hard enough convincing people of the seriousness of an actual disease, but just not wanting to eat gluten? I just don't want to deal with the hard time they will give me if I don't have to.

Thanks -- I love that there are so many people who have gone before me on this board.

[RiceGuy]

Well, I can relate to what you're going through, and my family has always been unsupportive to say the least. None of the doctors I went to had the slightest clue, and any of their advice I ever followed made things worse.

I know from my own experience that yeast infection and gluten intolorence can and likely do go hand-in-hand. Here's a post I made on this very subject just this morning: Open Original Shared Link

I cannot overstress the importance of getting to the problem asap. Ironically, other members of my family have since experienced medical problems which have only just begun to make them rethink some things about health. They still don't acknowledge the possibility of such things as discussed in this forum though. Every time some natural remedy works better than a doctors prescription, they are so totally dumbfounded and practically in shock. You'd think after years of suffering they'd get the picture. Once I did, I knew I could not concern myself with what they thought of me, though putting up with it has been nearly indescribable.

[danikali]

Wow! I def. can relate to family not understanding you and not believing you. That is why I'm putting myself through all of this testing! Just to get a "positive" test to show EVERYONE I was right.........

My family say they are scared because they don't want me to diagnose myself.....hahha........WELL THE DOCTORS AREN'T DOING IT! It's been not a year, not several, but my WHOLE life! Numeruous doctors.............

So I finally did the "gluten challenge" and felt like I was killing myself.......I got the blood tests taken this morning and am gluten free from now on. I also did enterolab. I've never been tested for gluten yet, and I know there is a connection somwhere, so I'm just waiting for those results to shove in everyones faces at Christmas and in the meantime, fill up their e-mails! with results and info. to prove that I knew it all along! hahaha

So I know what you guys are saying about the family thinking you're a little "coo-koo" but hang in there and in the meantime, stick to your diets and keep checking into this forum.......THANK GOD FOR IT, am I right?

[Rachel--24]

That is why I'm putting myself through all of this testing! Just to get a "positive" test to show EVERYONE I was right.........

I've never been tested for gluten yet, and I know there is a connection somwhere, so I'm just waiting for those results to shove in everyones faces at Christmas and in the meantime, fill up their e-mails! with results and info. to prove that I knew it all along!  hahaha 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand how you feel given the lack of support from your family/freinds. However I think your #1 priority should be YOU. Do the tests for yourself...so that you can learn about your health and start the road to recovery. They may *still* not believe you even if any of your tests are positive. The important thing is not what they think but how YOU feel. Sometimes if we do things for the wrong reason they tend to backfire. Keep the focus on you and when you get better just the fact that you *are* better should be enough to conince anyone. IMO it would be more convincing than waving test results in their face.

[danikali]

Very true........I am starting gluten free again today actually, and staying that way, no matter what........but not only are the doctors laughing in my face, but I know my family are talking to one another about me and it's really an uncomfortable feeling. Don't get me wrong, we're close and they aren't rude to me or anything, but there is NO support and it's just not a good feeling..... . Of course I'm going to do what I'm going to do for myself, and that def. means not eating ANY gluten no matter what ANYONE says, but the tests are proof of the seriousness of this whole thing........

I love my Mom but if you knew her, you would understand why a positive test is important.........she won't take it TOO serious until she has PROOF that this is real. She would cook for me and be like "oh, well I forgot this has some bread crumbs in it, but a little bit won't hurt you!" -That's my Mom.

[RiceGuy]

...I am starting gluten free again today actually, and staying that way, no matter what...

Good for you!!

I have the same basic reactions from various family/friends. But as Rachel--24 noted, you have to take care of yourself first. You alone are the best person to say how you feel on any diet. Some people I know would not even take a doctor's test results as proof. Total denial is the reaction, and this is usually from those whom eat more of the no-no's we talk about.

[danikali]

Good for you!!

I have the same basic reactions from various family/friends. But as Rachel--24 noted, you have to take care of yourself first. You alone are the best person to say how you feel on any diet. Some people I know would not even take a doctor's test results as proof. Total denial is the reaction, and this is usually from those whom eat more of the no-no's we talk about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! You know people who got the posative test and still wouldn't believe it? That's scary!

Did you get the tests or was it a self-diagnosis for you riceguy? (I like your name by the way).......

It all doesn't really matter anymore. I'm glad I got the tests done, but I'm not stressing over them right now becuase the great thing about this is it's in the diet, and we can change that without permission from ANYBODY! And I'm already starting to feel a little better. I'm less " out of it" today, and my knees don't hurt as bad, etc. And that's only in the first day!

[RiceGuy]

Wow!    You know people who got the posative test and still wouldn't believe it? That's scary!

Did you get the tests or was it a self-diagnosis for you riceguy? (I like your name by the way).......

It all doesn't really matter anymore. I'm glad I got the tests done, but I'm not stressing over them right now becuase the great thing about this is it's in the diet, and we can change that without permission from ANYBODY! And I'm already starting to feel a little better. I'm less " out of it" today, and my knees don't hurt as bad, etc. And that's only in the first day! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None of the doctors I went to my whole life ever figured out the problem(s) I was having. I figured it out myself from research/trial and error. So yeah it's self-diagnosis.

Oddly, my knees have been a bit worse lately. Only thing I had different was some soy cheese I'm experimenting with for the first time. I guess that might be a new no-no

No, the doubters didn't get the test. What I meant is that when they or someone else would get a diagnosis which indicated a problem with certain foods, they simply didn't believe it, and ranted forever about how impossible/stupid the notion was. For themselves, they keep right on eating the same stuff, and when the problems get worse afterward, they say it's coincidence every time. They also have NO will-power to stay on ANY diet, and continue to eat foods that they know are bad for them, like eating cake when they are trying to lose weight. It's like every few days they have a no-no, and say "oh well, I don't like this diet anyway". If it's someone else, they say, "come on, that little bit won't hurt. You're just paranoid". Having to refuse a dinner they prepared is like a mortal sin or something. They get so insulted like I do it to hurt their feelings. I can't let anyone invite me to a dinner, and eating at a restoraunt is out of the question of course. Oh, but don't you know, that's my paranoid delusion talking. I must need a shrink.

[danikali]

That's so funny, and it reminds me of a lot of people I know, especially my MOM! Haha, are you from a Polish family? Or Italian? Or Greek? I'm from a huge Polish family, and that's just how they are! hahaha......and that reminds me so much of my Mom!!! I said that to my Mom once, I said why do you eat these foods that are bad for you when you know you shouldn't have them? It's like a fat person binging on McDonalds and then having a banana split for dessert! And she was like, yeah, you're right..hmmm ........but it didn't really change anything! hhaha

[Emme999]

Hey Everybody

I haven't posted in a while, but here is something that I put up a long time ago regarding Candida & Celiac:

"Now we come to what to me is the most interesting of the recent research regarding celiac. It seems fitting that the research again comes from Holland , where celiac disease was first linked to diet. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, from the research group TNO Nutrition and Food Research, published a paper in the June, 2003, Lancet. He links celiac disease with Candida albicans. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, knowing the actual sequence of proteins which trigger celiac disease from the published work of other scientists, had searched the databases available to him through TNO to see if the same sequence existed in other places. It turns out the identical sequence of proteins occur in the cell walls of Candida albicans. [15]"

The website is: Open Original Shared Link

I've been gluten-free for a little over 6 months now and am still struggling with the Candida thing. (Pisses me off, actually ) I'm currently seeing an integrative MD about it who has me on Lamisil which supposedly helps intestinal Candida because much of it isn't absorbed and actually goes through the intestinal tract. Here's hoping I've been on it for 10 days now & haven't seen much change

I'll post again if something fantastic happens. I've been battling this for about 16 months now.

- Michelle