Canker Sores & Gluten

[anonymousplease]

Hi All,

Here's a question for you:

If celiac disease causes a reaction in the small intestine, why does my tongue break out in canker sores immediately after gluten touches it? 

Maybe this is silly and I'm missing an obvious reason but hear me out.

I kind of understand why I get canker sores (the bigger ones that last for weeks) a day or two after eating gluten. At that point, the gluten has made it down to my gut, a reaction / rejection has occurred, the damage is done and my system is in it's recovery mode - doing whatever it does, pulling water into my gut to flush it out, producing extra acid in my stomach (not sure why it does that but it does), etc. I always assumed the really bad canker sores had something to do with stomach acid, but not sure. 

I can't understand why canker sores, the smaller ones on the tongue that go away in a day or two, happen almost immediately if the main reactor to gluten is the small intestine. The food doesn't make it down there for hours (I have quite a slow digestive tract). Could there be a reaction to gluten that actually starts as soon as it's inside my mouth? We know a lot about celiac disease and gluten intolerances but we don't know everything. (Another example: we don't know why certified gluten free oats still make some people sick...they're certified! There is no gluten in them. They're similar, is the only answer. Hmm.). We also don't know much about canker sores and why some people get them and others don't or what actually causes them.

I think there is a lot of research still needed and a lot more to figure out. I hate to even say it but could it be something other than the gluten protein? Did we jump the gun on that explanation? Could the gluten reaction start earlier in the digestive process, like during step one - chewing. Could our saliva contain useful information in explaining a cause for gluten intolerance? 

Just some things I think about all day every day.

[cyclinglady]

Celiac disease, as you know is autoimmune that mainly causes damage to the small intestine, but is also systemic.  It can affect any organ in the body. 

Celiac disease is also under the umbrella of hypersensitivity (immune system).  It is one of four types and you can have more than one type.  This Wiki explanation is simple and to the point.  You can research the topic more from university and medical sites.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersensitivity

Why the fast reaction in regards to canker sores?  Researchers have linked cytokines (part of the immune system) as a culprit (some people vomit, etc.) 

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/8/eaaw7756

Remember that autoimmune diseases (over 80 identified and named) are linked.  I think medical should just say, “You have autoimmune disease.  It is currently attacking your small intestine.  We used to call it celiac disease.  The current treatment is a gluten free diet.    We will keep an eye out for other organs that could be attacked (like Crohn’s, lupus, MS, etc.) and we might need to treat those with medication.”

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by cyclinglady

[Awol cast iron stomach]

As cycling lady says those cytokines gear up pretty quickly for some of us. My cytokines flood more than my intestines. My mouth, esophagus, stomach, and muscles to start.

[kanucme2019]

On 4/9/2020 at 1:09 PM, Ali Rae said:

Hi All,

Here's a question for you:

If celiac disease causes a reaction in the small intestine, why does my tongue break out in canker sores immediately after gluten touches it? 

Maybe this is silly and I'm missing an obvious reason but hear me out.

I kind of understand why I get canker sores (the bigger ones that last for weeks) a day or two after eating gluten. At that point, the gluten has made it down to my gut, a reaction / rejection has occurred, the damage is done and my system is in it's recovery mode - doing whatever it does, pulling water into my gut to flush it out, producing extra acid in my stomach (not sure why it does that but it does), etc. I always assumed the really bad canker sores had something to do with stomach acid, but not sure. 

I can't understand why canker sores, the smaller ones on the tongue that go away in a day or two, happen almost immediately if the main reactor to gluten is the small intestine. The food doesn't make it down there for hours (I have quite a slow digestive tract). Could there be a reaction to gluten that actually starts as soon as it's inside my mouth? We know a lot about celiac disease and gluten intolerances but we don't know everything. (Another example: we don't know why certified gluten free oats still make some people sick...they're certified! There is no gluten in them. They're similar, is the only answer. Hmm.). We also don't know much about canker sores and why some people get them and others don't or what actually causes them.

I think there is a lot of research still needed and a lot more to figure out. I hate to even say it but could it be something other than the gluten protein? Did we jump the gun on that explanation? Could the gluten reaction start earlier in the digestive process, like during step one - chewing. Could our saliva contain useful information in explaining a cause for gluten intolerance? 

Just some things I think about all day every day.

It may not be gluten. It may be food allergy.  Have you tried eliminating other foods from your diet?  I have suffered from canker sores in my mouth for years.  I would get 5 or 6 of them at one time and they were very painful.  The dentist thought it might be the toothpaste or the mouthwash I was using.  The doctor thought it was either acid reflex, acidity food or the beer that I drank. Last year I finally figured out what it was and it was chocolate.  I did a lot of research on what causes canker sores, starting eliminating certain foods from my diet and it was definitely chocolate.  I gave up eating chocolate for a year and I have not had any problems with canker sores.  Recently I tried eating a very small piece of chocolate and the next day the sores were back.  I really miss chocolate but it wasn't worth a week of pain in my mouth with all those sores.  

[anonymousplease]

7 hours ago, kanucme2019 said:

It may not be gluten. It may be food allergy.  Have you tried eliminating other foods from your diet?  I have suffered from canker sores in my mouth for years.  I would get 5 or 6 of them at one time and they were very painful.  The dentist thought it might be the toothpaste or the mouthwash I was using.  The doctor thought it was either acid reflex, acidity food or the beer that I drank. Last year I finally figured out what it was and it was chocolate.  I did a lot of research on what causes canker sores, starting eliminating certain foods from my diet and it was definitely chocolate.  I gave up eating chocolate for a year and I have not had any problems with canker sores.  Recently I tried eating a very small piece of chocolate and the next day the sores were back.  I really miss chocolate but it wasn't worth a week of pain in my mouth with all those sores.  

Hey kanucme2019,

Thank you for commenting, I appreciate your input. For me, I'm not searching for the food or ingredient cause, I know my canker sores are directly related to gluten. I'm not currently having an issue with outbreaks or anything like that, just pondering how the gluten can take effect so quickly. I just feel like there is still so much we don't know and explain away based on what we do know, which leads to conclusions that might not be true. I just want the research to continue and go down new avenues. 

[knitty kitty]

Ali Rae,

Celiac Disease causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition (aka vitamin deficiencies).

Recurrent Aphthous Ulceration: Vitamin B1, B2 and B6 Status and Response to Replacement Therapy

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1941656/

 

Thiamine helps reduce cytokines.  

Long-Term Treatment by Vitamin B₁ and Reduction of Serum Proinflammatory Cytokines, Hyperalgesia, and Paw Edema in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5102562/

 

Thiamine Deficiency Promotes T Cell Infiltration in Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis: the Involvement of CCL2

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135011/

Hope this helps!

[Posterboy]

Ali Rae,

I don't have time to explain it in more detail today but here is a couple links that will help you....take some Lysine...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267202860_Clinical_success_of_lysine_in_association_with_serumal_and_salivary_presence_of_HSV-1_in_patients_with_recurrent_aphthous_ulceration

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6438572

I used to have your problems....If I ever get mouth sores today (rarely now)....but when it was a reoccurring thing taking the Amino Acid Lysine always got rid of them...

When our stomach acid get's low we can't digestion proteins down into the component amino acids and we have a problem absorbing all the amino acids we need to function properly...

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,