WNT Signalling, Vitamin & Nutritional Deficiencies

[cyclinglady]

@knitty kitty and @Posterboy

You both have been concerned about vitamin and nutritional deficiencies.  I confess since I do not have any (based on lab tests), I have been skeptical about promoting it so much to newly diagnosed members. (I am also a bit worried about the lack of FDA oversight since we are having issues with even prescription drugs....but that is another topic.)     I found this new study that might very well support your concerns. 
 

“The results show that even though the intestinal villi structure and the number of inflammatory cells in celiac patients on a gluten-free diet were similar to those of healthy individuals, the groups differed significantly on the molecular level.”

“The gene expression levels in the small intestine of celiac patients on a gluten-free diet differed significantly from those of healthy individuals. In every case, the gene expression levels of celiac patients on a gluten-free diet were found to be halfway between that of healthy non-celiacs and gluten-challenged celiac patients. In particular, the number of genes necessary for the absorption of micronutrients and vitamins – such as zinc, calcium and folate – was significantly lower in patients on a gluten-free diet even though their gut structure was normal in other ways,” Research Director, Docent Keijo Viiri says.“

Your thoughts?  
 

https://www.tuni.fi/en/news/celiac-disease-gluten-free-diet-does-not-fully-restore-normal-intestinal-function-molecular

[trents]

Wow! That's blockbuster level information. Now I have some ammo to justify the expense of some extra B-vitamin supplements my wife was questioning the other day.

[knitty kitty]

Cyclinglady, 

Thank you so much for sharing the "blockbuster level information" as Trents called this study!  It's really cutting-edge!  I'm so glad to see in-depth studies like this being done.  

I admire you all the more for being open-minded to new information.  I must admit my first reaction was something my meemaw used to say "Well, knock me over with a feather!"  

I understand your concern about quality control and purity in supplements.  Perhaps this can help allay your concerns.  U. S. Pharmacopeia is an organization that "sets quality, purity, strength, and identity standards for medicines, food ingredients, and dietary supplements." 

https://qualitymatters.usp.org/what-us-pharmacopeia

The supplements with their USP Verified Mark have been scrutinised for quality, potency, and purity of ingredients.

https://www.quality-supplements.org

Thanks again, Cycling lady! Well done!

 

 

[Posterboy]

Cyclinglady,

Thanks for finding and posting that.  I think I might of found that a few months ago but wasn't sure what it meant or whether it would be accepted or not.

Then life happened and I got busy with other things.

The B-Complex's have been recently been studied and shown to down regulate inflammation in animals.

This would explain this latest research well....when we get low in B-Vitamins our immune system runs out of control.

Here is the research entitled "Vitamin B combination reduces fluconazole toxicity in Wistar rats"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30903555/

There would be no reasons it wouldn't work in humans but most doctors don't even think about Vitamins......only think in terms of "genetics" which  your research in my mind seems to call in question.

Genetics and your environment......is a two way street...and B-Vitamins.....makes sure we head in the right direction....on this two way street.

Only two years ago....it was shown at least for Thiamine aka B1....sepsis in the body (unchecked) IE inflammation might even be a symptom of low Thiamine levels.

See this link and I will quote the section on Low Thiamine levels and the Sepsis connection....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/thiamine-deficiency

See the paragraph entitled Volume 2...quoting

"Effect of Sepsis on Intestinal Thiamine Uptake

Thiamine deficiency is prevalent in patients with sepsis.15–17 This appears to be mediated in part via an effect of sepsis on intestinal thiamine uptake37 given recently reported observations of a significant inhibition in intestinal thiamine uptake in rat model of sepsis where the degree of (Thiamine) inhibition was shown to correlate with the severity of sepsis. Also, the inhibition was associated with a significant decrease in the level of expression of THTR-1 and THTR-2 in the gut mucosa. Sepsis also caused a significant inhibition in level of expression of the mitochondrial TPPT and in level of mucosal ATP.37"

It is worth noting again for those who skipped over the paragraph....the level of Thiamine deficiency correlated with Sepsis severity...

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

 

[Posterboy]

Cyclinglady and Knitty Kitty,

Similar mechanisms have been show to be at work in ME/CFS in patients who were low in Magnesium.

Because we get low in Magnesium....our ability to produce energy via the Krebs cycle is interrupted and chronic fatigue follows....

http://simmaronresearch.com/2015/08/epstein-barr-virus-the-magnesium-connection/

Dr. Londsdale summarizes this well in his article on how being low in nutrients like Thiamine interact in/with our immune response......low energy levels make us susceptible to a dis dis-regulated  immune response...

http://www.hormonesmatter.com/recurrent-fever-swollen-glands-febrile-lymphadenopathy-thiamine/

The Acetylcholine research as a triggering mechanism for our immune system shows how being low in Thiamine can cause or body to attack itself and set off an auto-immune reaction...

Cyclinglady I know you have read this before.....so it is for others who  might read this....

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321624#Safe-way-to-treat-inflammatory-disease?

It explains it well.....though it is new research it is good research....

quoting...

"Mesothelial cells communicate with the organs they line using small projections called microvilli, and the medium through which they send their message is the neurotransmitter acetylcholine"

When we are low in Acetycholine our Vagus nerve can't regulate our bowels....and leads to vagus  nerve disorders....throughout the body...and explains why celiac symptom's don't just happen in your GI tract....

https://www.md-health.com/Vagus-Nerve.html

and a Vagus nerve (IE low Acetylcholine) problem leads to a host of GI problems including but not limited too quoting...

"An underactive vagus nerve can lead to a condition called gasteroparesis. This condition leads to nausea, heartburn, stomach pains, spasms in the stomach and weight loss due to the digestive system having too little of the chemicals it needs to break down food"

Many if not most of the symptom's of those who develop IBS, Celiac disease or SIBO.

Cyclinglady et al....it is a little technical but it is a great Youtube video that explains these connections entitled...

"Why B1 aka Thiamine is Essential for Gut Health"

It is a little over an hour so you will have to pick a time when you have enough time to watch it.....but I believe it will be worth your time.

It might not convenience you.....but it will make good point(s) that, in part, at least Thiamine is an important part of a  healthy GI tract.  And your Vagus nerve can't function properly without it!

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:09 PM, trents said:

Wow! That's blockbuster level information. Now I have some ammo to justify the expense of some extra B-vitamin supplements my wife was questioning the other day.

Trents,

Try taking the Benfotiamine form of B1 with your B-complex.  I think it will help you.

It has much higher Bio-availability than the ThiaimineHCL often found in most supplements.

Best taken with food for better absorption.

Here is an article on it entitled "Pharmacokinetic study of benfotiamine and the bioavailability assessment compared to thiamine hydrochloride"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24399744/

Notice how much better Bentfotiamine is absorbed than the ThiamineHCL form.

People mistakenly think the RDA's of 100% means 100 percent absorption.....it does not.  Some forms of Vitamins absorb less than 10 percent.

Most always the oral dose of ThiamineHCL is absorbed at less than 10% of the dose and why people can take a B-Complex and feel like nothing happened......because they took the wrong form....and almost nothing was absorbed......so naturally they did not feel better or long enough (see below)

Or they didn't take it often enough (w/meals) for the best chance for elevated serum levels through out the day.

I wrote this about Niacinamide....but it will help you with taking your B-complex...the same rules apply...

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2109-whos-afraid-of-a-b-vitamin-you-neednt-bee-a-faq-on-niacinamide-and-how-to-take-niacinamide-and-why-you-would-want-to-in-the-first-place/ 

frequency and form is more important than dosage amount...

a B-complex taken 2/day will work 2x as fast as once day...

See this paragraph about B-Vitamin deficiencies in depressed people on how long to take B-Vitamins for best effect...from this article on "Understanding Nutrition.....with Depression"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2738337/

quoting their section o B-Complex's.

"B-complex vitamins

Nutrition and depression are intricately and undeniably linked, as suggested by the mounting evidence by researchers in neuropsychiatry. According to a study reported in Neuropsychobiology,[42] supplementation of nine vitamins, 10 times in excess of normal recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for 1 year improved mood in both men and women. The interesting part was that these changes in mood after a year occurred even though the blood status of nine vitamins reached a plateau after 3 months. This mood improvement was particularly associated with improved vitamin B2 and B6 status. In women, baseline vitamin B1 status was linked with poor mood and an improvement in the same after 3 months was associated with improved mood.

Thiamine is known to modulate cognitive performance particularly in the geriatric population."

I must stop for today/tonight but as always I truly hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

Cyclinglady et Al,

I came across this research a few months ago....but got caught up in life....

Having recently rediscovered it looking for something else I wanted to post it here for discussion.

It shows how B-Vitamins like Thiamine interaction in animals with your genes to predict heart related problems in Wet Beri Beri...

Entitled "Gene-environment interactions in wet beriberi: effects of thiamine depletion in CD36-defect rats"

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpheart.00182.2003

I don't know all what it means....but it does show that B-Vitamins play an important role Gene/Environment interactions.

It is not just a one way street....our Genes are interacting with our environment.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,