Is it Even Possible or Likely for One Source of Gluten to Affect You More Than Another?

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

Hey all, 

l was actually going to post this in a NCgS related section but didn't see one-l'm pretty sure that's what l'm dealing with.  I haven't been here in a while but I did finally get the 23andMe health data, so along with other some genetic tests l got the "slightly increased risk" result (DQ 2.5). 

What l'm wondering is for either celiacs or those with NCGS alike, is there any reason l would feel basically normal while not intentionally following a gluten free diet but then seem to react, pretty reliably, to things like pizza and spaghetti pasta?

The usual issues that l've had, nothing drastic but l had to note that l get the very specific "behind the eye" headache and some eye watering, then within a day a definite mood change, feelings of just...anger, and some crying that was unprovoked. 

l'm pretty mentally stable despite having ADHD and being on an ssri for anxiety but the sharp mood swings are not common for me.

l am dealing with a family health emergency right now and so that could certainly contribute, at the same time l'm trying to keep my head together so when l noticed how quickly that seemed to happen it had me considered either going gluten free or just avoiding major trigger foods.

[GodsGal]

5 hours ago, BlackShoesBlackSocks said:

Hey all, 

l was actually going to post this in a NCgS related section but didn't see one-l'm pretty sure that's what l'm dealing with.  I haven't been here in a while but I did finally get the 23andMe health data, so along with other some genetic tests l got the "slightly increased risk" result (DQ 2.5). 

What l'm wondering is for either celiacs or those with NCGS alike, is there any reason l would feel basically normal while not intentionally following a gluten free diet but then seem to react, pretty reliably, to things like pizza and spaghetti pasta?

The usual issues that l've had, nothing drastic but l had to note that l get the very specific "behind the eye" headache and some eye watering, then within a day a definite mood change, feelings of just...anger, and some crying that was unprovoked. 

l'm pretty mentally stable despite having ADHD and being on an ssri for anxiety but the sharp mood swings are not common for me.

l am dealing with a family health emergency right now and so that could certainly contribute, at the same time l'm trying to keep my head together so when l noticed how quickly that seemed to happen it had me considered either going gluten free or just avoiding major trigger foods.

Hi, 

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through a family health emergency. That's hard. 

I am assuming that when you talk about sources of gluten you are probably talking about bread vs. pasta, and not corn vs. wheat/barley/rye/oats. Am I understanding that correctly? 

I don't have NCGS. I have celiac. I am not a medical professional. So, please don't take this as medical advice. I don't know if there are technically degrees of sensitivity or not. For me, all wheat, barley, rye, and oats are bad. I know that, for myself, when I am not feeling well, I don't handle stressful things well. So, if you suspect that you have NCGS, then I would recommend that you go gluten free.

Also, if you notice that certain foods seem to be triggers, I would avoid them. I know that it is hard. Especially if you are feeling stressed, and just needing something quick for dinner. Something that works well for me is to put some rice, a can of Bush's beans, and some frozen veggies in the rice cooker. 

Another thing that has really helped me during hard times is seeing a professional counselor. I believe that it takes a lot of courage to admit that there is a problem and ask for help. Do you have someone in your area that you can talk to?

Also, it sounds like you are under a lot of stress. Make sure that you give yourself grace. 

Please keep us posted on how you are doing.

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

1 hour ago, GodsGal said:

Hi, 

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through a family health emergency. That's hard. 

I am assuming that when you talk about sources of gluten you are probably talking about bread vs. pasta, and not corn vs. wheat/barley/rye/oats. Am I understanding that correctly? 

I don't have NCGS. I have celiac. I am not a medical professional. So, please don't take this as medical advice. I don't know if there are technically degrees of sensitivity or not. For me, all wheat, barley, rye, and oats are bad. I know that, for myself, when I am not feeling well, I don't handle stressful things well. So, if you suspect that you have NCGS, then I would recommend that you go gluten free.

Also, if you notice that certain foods seem to be triggers, I would avoid them. I know that it is hard. Especially if you are feeling stressed, and just needing something quick for dinner. Something that works well for me is to put some rice, a can of Bush's beans, and some frozen veggies in the rice cooker. 

Another thing that has really helped me during hard times is seeing a professional counselor. I believe that it takes a lot of courage to admit that there is a problem and ask for help. Do you have someone in your area that you can talk to?

Also, it sounds like you are under a lot of stress. Make sure that you give yourself grace. 

Please keep us posted on how you are doing.

Thank you. l'm in the process of dealing with going to visit my grandma in home hospice, so l haven't been letting myself jump too far ahead but from what l understand she has a few weeks.

l actually reworded  'source of gluten' about three or four times because l wasn't sure how l should explain, but l meant just different gluteny foods basically...like l'm sure l must be consuming some gluten on a regular basis since l'm not actively gluten free, and l feel fine and only seem to flip out like that with things like pasta, pizza, etc. 

l've never been a huge just bread eater so l don't have a ton of it in my diet, no particular reason (maybe l'm lucky l'm coincidentally not a huge fan lol).

Also the fatigue hits within about an hour too, l had a job where the boss ordered pizza nearly every day and wanted us all to stay  there and eat. l would fall asleep pretty reliable by 2-3 pm and be drooling on myself a little. l don't miss that job. 

So maybe the rest of the time l'm just consuming low levels and l'm fine? l know it makes more sense to just cut it out completely, l don't know why l convince myself that's it's harder to do than it really is and add a lot of unnecessary stress/planning when l have tried to go gluten free. 

But as soon as l got the ocular headache and eye watering l was like HELL NO, because l'm prone to migraines and dealt with the ocular headaches for years too. If there's something that specific that's a trigger like the pasta, l would cut it out for sure or buy gluten-free pasta because l wasn't experiencing that for awhile. 

[GodsGal]

2 hours ago, BlackShoesBlackSocks said:

Thank you. l'm in the process of dealing with going to visit my grandma in home hospice, so l haven't been letting myself jump too far ahead but from what l understand she has a few weeks.

l actually reworded  'source of gluten' about three or four times because l wasn't sure how l should explain, but l meant just different gluteny foods basically...like l'm sure l must be consuming some gluten on a regular basis since l'm not actively gluten free, and l feel fine and only seem to flip out like that with things like pasta, pizza, etc. 

l've never been a huge just bread eater so l don't have a ton of it in my diet, no particular reason (maybe l'm lucky l'm coincidentally not a huge fan lol).

Also the fatigue hits within about an hour too, l had a job where the boss ordered pizza nearly every day and wanted us all to stay  there and eat. l would fall asleep pretty reliable by 2-3 pm and be drooling on myself a little. l don't miss that job. 

So maybe the rest of the time l'm just consuming low levels and l'm fine? l know it makes more sense to just cut it out completely, l don't know why l convince myself that's it's harder to do than it really is and add a lot of unnecessary stress/planning when l have tried to go gluten free. 

But as soon as l got the ocular headache and eye watering l was like HELL NO, because l'm prone to migraines and dealt with the ocular headaches for years too. If there's something that specific that's a trigger like the pasta, l would cut it out for sure or buy gluten-free pasta because l wasn't experiencing that for awhile. 

I am so sorry to hear about your grandma. That's tough. 

Be gracious with yourself. Going gluten free is harder than it seems. Because of all of the hidden sources, cross contamination, and the lack of understanding about eating gluten free as a medical necessity in society as a whole, going gluten free is not for the faint of heart. It often requires extra planning and precautions. And it can be quite overwhelming. I tell people that when I started, it felt like I was trying to get a cup of water from a high pressure fire hose!

Another thing that I should mention is that if you want to get tested for celiac, you have to be actively eating gluten. You would need to be eating the equivalent of 2 slices of wheat bread per day for 6-8 weeks for the blood serum test, and you would have to eat the same amount of gluten for two weeks prior to an endoscopy. It is possible to go off of gluten and then do a "gluten challenge" before testing. 

Also, sometimes our bodies do some pretty crazy things with emotions. Sometimes they are triggered by what we eat. Other times they are triggered by what is happening in our lives. And then there are also times when it's "all of the above." It sounds like you are going through a lot of emotionally challenging things right now. The anger and tears may be a part of the grief process.

I hope this helps. Please keep me posted.

 

[Scott Adams]

Whether you have celiac disease, which you could due to your genetics, or NCGS, you would need to avoid all gluten for life, if you wish to avoid the negative health effects and/or symptoms caused by gluten. 

Note that many celiacs don't have noticeable symptoms at all, and are often diagnosed due to a blood test that shows low iron levels (anemia), or other deficiency like B12. They still face the same health risks if they keep eating gluten as those with symptoms. The health risks for NCGS are not fully understood at this point, and there isn't even a test to screen for this, although they are trying to develop one.

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

1 hour ago, Scott Adams said:

Whether you have celiac disease, which you could due to your genetics, or NCGS, you would need to avoid all gluten for life, if you wish to avoid the negative health effects and/or symptoms caused by gluten. 

Note that many celiacs don't have noticeable symptoms at all, and are often diagnosed due to a blood test that shows low iron levels (anemia), or other deficiency like B12. They still face the same health risks if they keep eating gluten as those with symptoms. The health risks for NCGS are not fully understood at this point, and there isn't even a test to screen for this, although they are trying to develop one.

Thank you. 

l actually saw that l had this variant on a free genetic health app a few years ago and wasn't sure how seriously to take it at the time.  Then when 23andme confirmed it too, l definitely took it into consideration since l was already desperate to "solve" my migraine  and the aura/ocular headaches for years. 

So l did the imaware test just to be safe, no active celiac disease. What l wonder is if l still need to be testing later on? Just doesn't seem like there's much info on what exactly to do in that case, l was thinking maybe l should mention the 23andme results to my doctor or just email them the report but l'm not really sure if that would even be of interest to them. 

 

 

[Scott Adams]

It would be of interest to me if I were a doctor, at least to not disagree about doing a periodic blood screening to make sure your gliadin antibodies don't one day shoot up. I know that first degree relatives of celiacs have an ~44% chance of also having it, and should be screened each year, but I'm not sure of the interval in your case. My guess would be that if you're having any unexplained symptoms going forward, get another test. 

But since you're having symptoms now, possibly NCGS (which some doctors believe is a pre-celiac stage in some people), it sounds like you may want to go gluten-free, at least for a few months to see if it helps with your symptoms. If you end up on a gluten-free diet then there would likely be non need for further testing, as you would need to do a gluten challenge for 6-8 weeks beforehand. 

[RMJ]

Theoretically speaking, it would be very reasonable to respond more when the dose of gluten was greater.  Human (and other animal) bodies often respond to substances in a dose-dependent manner.

[knitty kitty]

There's a difference between regular flour, cake flour and bread flour.  The difference is in the amount of gluten that will link with other gluten molecules.  

Bread flour has the most gluten linking resulting in those big bubbles or hollow spaces that capture the gas produced by yeast when rising and baking, resulting in chewy bread or pizza crusts.

Cake flour has the least gluten linking, resulting in smaller bubbles and in fewer big  linked gluten molecules.

Regular flour is in between.  

Those big clumps of linked together gluten molecules in chewy bread afford more places for our antibodies to identify them as something harmful that needs to be attacked.  During the attack, our intestines produce zonulin which results in leaky gut and the big gluten molecules can sneak out of our intestines and go to other places in our bodies where they are attacked by antibodies and our organs are the collateral damage victims.

@RMJ is correct about dose-dependence.  You might be able to cheat with a cupcake, but not the whole stuffed crust pizza... 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by knitty kitty
Typo correction

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

13 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

There's a difference between regular flour, cake flour and bread flour.  The difference is in the amount of gluten that will link with other gluten molecules.  

Bread flour has the most gluten linking resulting in those big bubbles or hollow spaces that capture the gas produced by yeast when rising and baking, resulting in chewy bread or pizza crusts.

Cake flour has the least gluten linking, resulting in smaller bubbles and in fewer big  linked gluten molecules.

Regular flour is in between.  

Those big clumps of linked together gluten molecules in chewy bread afford more places for our antibodies to identify them as something harmful that needs to be attacked.  During the attack, our intestines produce zonulin which results in leaky gut and the big gluten molecules can sneak out of our intestines and go to other places in our bodies where they are attacked by antibodies and our organs are the collateral damage victims.

@RMJ is correct about dose-dependence.  You might be able to cheat with a cupcake, but not the whole stuffed crust pizza... 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Thank you!

l will go gluten free and cut it all out regardless, but l was wondering why it would seem like only certain foods really having an effect, wondering if l was even really reacting to it or if it was just being carb-bombed or something.

That makes a lot of sense. l'm also a bagel fanatic and l tend to really overdo it when l eat them, to the point l just avoid buying them because l eat so many l'm stuffed anyway.

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

So it's like l sometimes can't make a fair judgement call if it's gluten or carb-binging  which can affect most people, probably. 

[BlackShoesBlackSocks]

Anyway, thanks for your answers guys. 

l wish l knew more about my family history on my dad's side but l've at least never heard of anyone being diagnosed with celiac disease, they do have a history of mental illness and he's severely bipolar so things like the drastic mood swings really stand out to me because l know it's something l don't tend to have. 

l've been pretty much fine this week, got some gluten free chick pea pasta just to try with alfredo. 

You have to wonder how much it could be an issue that affects people who never get diagnosed with it and end up with other problems or mentally ill later in life, l'm glad there's at least as much info as there is now.

[Scott Adams]

There is definitely a connection between mental issues and celiac disease, and  you can see the articles we've done on this here:

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/schizophrenia-mental-problems-and-celiac-disease/

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/cognitive-impairment-and-celiac-disease/

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/ataxia-nerve-disease-neuropathy-brain-damage-and-celiac-disease/