Celiac, raynauds, b6 toxity, copper Deficiency

[Sassyred]

Hello I have celiac, now raynauds, b6 toxity, and copper Deficiency, malnutrition disorder anyone else get these problems after being diagnosed with celiac disease? I have other issues as well graves, hashimotos, syncope, bradycardia/tachycardia,  fibromyaligia, neuropathy, chronic pain syndrome, etc. My main concern is b6 toxcity I can't get my levels down. I need help. I don't take vitamins or any b6 supplements. Nerologist says it's due to my celiac disease. I'm scared my levels are very high. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  

[trents]

I have never heard of B6 toxicity. Generally, people with celiac disease are low in B vitamins.

Looked up B6 toxicity, there is such a a thing but it is always caused by extreme over dosage in supplementation and does not have other etiologies:

"All cases of vitamin B6 toxicity are from supratherapeutic dosing, either iatrogenic or laypersons self-treating with over-the-counter supplements. Daily dietary intake will not provide enough pyridoxine to cause toxicity. The daily dietary intake of vitamin B6 is approximately 1.9 mg/day in the United States.[2] Additionally, typical pyridoxine doses used for co-treatment with isoniazid are 10 to 25 mg/day. Pyridoxine toxicity typically manifests as neurologic symptoms, including paresthesias in the extremities and, in severe cases, difficulty with ambulation. This sensory neuropathy usually develops at doses of pyridoxine above 1000 mg per day. There are some case reports of sensory neuropathies at doses of less than 500 mg per day in patients taking supplements for months. However, none of the studies had sensory nerve damage at a daily intake below 200 mg pyridoxine per day."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554500/

Did the neurologist run any tests to determine if you have B6 toxicity or just assuming that? IMO, if not test have been run to confirm B6 toxicity then your symptoms suggest just the opposite, especially since you are not taking any supplements. The B vitamin group is especially important in healthy neurology and the malnutrition that typically accompanies long-term undiagnosed or untreated celiac disease is often the cause of various neuropathologies.

[Sassyred]

18 minutes ago, trents said:

I have never heard of B6 toxicity. Generally, people with celiac disease are low in B vitamins.

Looked up B6 toxicity, there is such a a thing but it is always caused by extreme over dosage in supplementation and does not have other etiologies:

"All cases of vitamin B6 toxicity are from supratherapeutic dosing, either iatrogenic or laypersons self-treating with over-the-counter supplements. Daily dietary intake will not provide enough pyridoxine to cause toxicity. The daily dietary intake of vitamin B6 is approximately 1.9 mg/day in the United States.[2] Additionally, typical pyridoxine doses used for co-treatment with isoniazid are 10 to 25 mg/day. Pyridoxine toxicity typically manifests as neurologic symptoms, including paresthesias in the extremities and, in severe cases, difficulty with ambulation. This sensory neuropathy usually develops at doses of pyridoxine above 1000 mg per day. There are some case reports of sensory neuropathies at doses of less than 500 mg per day in patients taking supplements for months. However, none of the studies had sensory nerve damage at a daily intake below 200 mg pyridoxine per day."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554500/

Did the neurologist run any tests to determine if you have B6 toxicity or just assuming that? IMO, if not test have been run to confirm B6 toxicity then your symptoms suggest just the opposite, especially since you are not taking any supplements. The B vitamin group is especially important in healthy neurology and the malnutrition that typically accompanies long-term undiagnosed or untreated celiac disease is often the cause of various neuropathologies.

Yes he ran tests that's how I found out. I didn't know such a thing about b6 toxcity.  I do not take vitamins but I do eat alot of foods high in b6 but have been cutting back. He doesn't think I'm absorbing my food right I have a lot of gi problems the doctors are working on it. I hope next week for another check up on b6 levels I'm hoping for good news. It's like I didn't know copper Deficiency went with celiac disease either and I have that also. Through blood test and 24hr urine test but that's easier to fix. I will update after more testing because this so confuses me on why it's happening. I also have appointment set up with a nutrition counselor so hopefully they can help me. I'm also low on b12 and b1 and iron. Can we post pictures on this page? I could post my levels if so. 

[Darcy Martinez]

I had b6 toxicity when I was diagnosed and I wasn't taking any vitamins.   I was low in everything else.

[trents]

Yes, you can post pictures. The attachment tool is under "edit" in the three horizontal dots upper right corner just above each post window. Choose edit from the menu and then you have access to the attachment tool. You have only 15 minutes to edit a post once it is submitted so if you want to add a picture after that then make a new post.

How were you diagnosed with celiac disease? Blood antibody tests? Endoscopy with biopsy or both? Can you share your antibody test numbers?

According to the article I linked you, it is impossible to get B6 toxicity from dietary consumption. So, I wonder if you have some metabolic issue going on.

Edited February 22, 2022 by trents

[trents]

16 minutes ago, Darcy Martinez said:

I had b6 toxicity when I was diagnosed and I wasn't taking any vitamins.   I was low in everything else.

So, what happened with that? Is there a therapy to correct it? Is it still a problem?

[Russ H]

3 hours ago, Sassyred said:

Yes he ran tests that's how I found out. I didn't know such a thing about b6 toxcity.  I do not take vitamins but I do eat alot of foods high in b6 but have been cutting back. He doesn't think I'm absorbing my food right I have a lot of gi problems the doctors are working on it. I hope next week for another check up on b6 levels I'm hoping for good news. It's like I didn't know copper Deficiency went with celiac disease either and I have that also. Through blood test and 24hr urine test but that's easier to fix. I will update after more testing because this so confuses me on why it's happening. I also have appointment set up with a nutrition counselor so hopefully they can help me. I'm also low on b12 and b1 and iron. Can we post pictures on this page? I could post my levels if so. 

What B6 food were you eating? The safe upper limit is 100 mg a day, which equates to 21 pounds of beef liver. If you are eating more than this amount of liver every day, I raise my hat to you.

[knitty kitty]

@Sassyred

Welcome to the forum!  We're glad to help! 

What sort of medications have you been taking?  Which medications were you given for your Hashimotos?  Have you been treated for parasites or cancer? Any antibiotics?  

Certain antibiotics, chemo drugs and drugs for Hashimotos can induce B6 toxicity and copper deficiency.

Certain genetic mutations can cause B6 toxicity, but those are extremely rare, and would have been noticed much earlier in life.  

 

8 hours ago, Sassyred said:

Hello I have celiac, now raynauds, b6 toxity, and copper Deficiency, malnutrition disorder anyone else get these problems after being diagnosed with celiac disease? I have other issues as well graves, hashimotos, syncope, bradycardia/tachycardia,  fibromyaligia, neuropathy, chronic pain syndrome, etc. My main concern is b6 toxcity I can't get my levels down. I need help. I don't take vitamins or any b6 supplements. Nerologist says it's due to my celiac disease. I'm scared my levels are very high. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  

 

[Wheatwacked]

15 hours ago, Sassyred said:

Nuerologist says it's due to my celiac disease.

It is his polite way of passing the buck.

Once you stop eating gluten your small intestine heals and nutrient absorption returns to normal, usually in 6 to 24 months. From then on it is more about the deficiencies in your diet than malabsorption. A good nutritionist familiar with the Gluten Free Diet might be helpful. 

16 hours ago, Sassyred said:

I have other issues as well graves, hashimotos, syncope, bradycardia/tachycardia,  fibromyaligia, neuropathy, chronic pain syndrome, etc.

The Graves and Hashimotos could be iodine deficiency. Iodine is absorbed in the small intestine. See if 1 to 3 sheets of Nori (=40 to 120 mcg iodine) a day helps. RDA is 150mcg(100%RDA) to 1100 mcg (upper limit RDA) per day. It takes 72 hours to start because of the Wolff-Chaikoff Effect. Get certified organic to avoid heavy metal contamination. Or three glasses of milk. If you want a test, urine is the only way to tell if you are ingesting enough. "The iodine urine test helps diagnose iodine deficiency or excess, as well as iodine-induced hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) and hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid). It is also useful in the diagnosis of autoimmune thyroid diseases, including Hashimoto's thyroiditis and Graves' disease.   https://www.walkinlab.com/products/view/iodine-random-urine-test"

The Standard American Diet has many vitamin and mineral deficiencies and the Gluten free version of it is worse. 

See an endocrinologist to see if you have secondary adrenal insufficiency. It would explain your pains.

I have been on prednisone since 2012 for what you describe as "fibromyalgia, neuropathy, chronic pain syndrome" and if I skip doses 5mg/day for too long or I get stressed the symptoms return. It actually started in 1984 but doctors could not find anything, so I just suffered. I wonder if I had been tested then? I am going to increase to 10 mg for a week to see if it helps my cold feet. I'll let you know. Since I reduced to 5 I haven't been sleeping well because of them but never made the connection until I read your post and it got me thinking.

 

Regarding the B6, it is likely a medication you were prescribed.  

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These factors have wide-reaching adverse effects and may be triggering a toxic reaction in certain susceptible individuals: Past history or current use of certain medications like benzodiazepines, gabapentin, Lyrica, BCP, SSRIs, fluroquinolone antibiotics, PPIs, diabetes medications, statins, blood pressure medications etc.?   https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/why-is-vitamin-b6-toxic-for-some-and-why-dont-symptoms-resolve-when-vitamin-b6-is-stopped/

Delayed onset of symptoms of Cipro and similar antibiotic toxicity.   https://www.hormonesmatter.com/fluoroquinolone-time-bomb-mitochondria-damage/

[Wheatwacked]

No need to wait. I took the extra 5 mg prednisolone last night and woke up four hours later with most of my "tells" improved. 1)when I flex my leg muscles while seated, they feel crunchy and creaky 2) toenails are sensitive 3) general achiness and pains like the flue, but I haven't had the flu or a cold since 2004 thanks to Cold-Eezz (zinc gluconate lozenges).

More on B6:  My lay person conclusion Perhaps supplementation with 840 mg Phosphatidyl Choline and 1000 mg Thiamine (or Benfotiamine may be quicker) will help. Cheap and safe. Almost half the US population does not consume enough choline anyway.   https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/

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the thyroid and thiamine share a reciprocal relationship. When the thyroid is suffering, mitochondrial damage is common and thiamine is low and vice versa.   https://www.hormonesmatter.com/question-doctor-lessons-learned-floxed-cipro/

This is hard to pin down but apparently B6 is used by the mitochondria to break down Lactate. Assumption: damaged mitochodria use less B6 leading to an excess.

Quote

Phosphatidylcholine (PC) is the most abundant phospholipid of the mitochondrial membranes    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5009247/

There has been some research for new drugs called Lipid Replacement Therapy to repair mitochondrial damage but "It should be clear that additional clinical studies are needed"   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6941554/    so don't expect any doctor to jump on that bandwagon.

Perhaps supplementation with 840 mg Phosphatidyl Choline and 1000 mg Thiamine (or Benfotiamine may be quicker) will help. Cheap and safe. Almost half the US population does not consume enough choline anyway.   https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/