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what is all about ?

grumbleguts
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grumbleguts Rookie
grumbleguts
Posted
  • Author
12 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

@grumbleguts,

Be aware that Metformin will cause B12, folate, and thiamine deficiency.  

I suggest you discuss with your doctor supplementing thiamine as well as B12 and folate.

B12 and thiamine deficiencies can cause symptoms of altered mentation before blood tests reveal deficiency.  

Diabetics, both type one and two, have been shown to have low thiamine levels.  Adding Metformin can cause outright thiamine deficiency.

Gestational diabetes is shown to be connected to low thiamine levels. 

Gastroparesis, slow emptying of the stomach, is another symptom of low thiamine levels.  Gastritis is also seen with insufficient Thiamine levels. 

Thiamine deficiency can have symptoms of altered mental status called Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  

Do you feel your mentality has changed in the time you've been taking Metformin? Having memory difficulty?  Fatigue? 

Since blood tests aren't an accurate measurement of thiamine stores, high dose Thiamine supplementation (>500 mg/day) for several days should produce improvement in symptoms.

The World Health Organization -WHO - says a thiamine deficiency can be diagnosed if supplementing with 500 mg thiamine hydrochloride brings improvement.  Some get improvement within hours.  

I took Metformin and got very ill and the doctors were clueless as to the interconnection between Celiac, Diabetes (yes, @trents, there is a connection with type two diabetes and Celiac*), and thiamine deficiency.

Do discuss thiamine deficiency with your doctor!

*  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639597/

 

I will. certainly check up thiamin info with her... 

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plumbago Experienced
plumbago
Posted

I would advise you checking with your doctor to see if you can get B vitamin levels checked. Just because metformin - a highly useful drug - can cause B vitamin deficiency doesn't mean it will or does in you specific case. If you have celiac disease, you may have malabsorption of those vitamins because of it.

Also, as you know as someone with type 2 diabetes, gastroparesis could occur due to some nerve impairment of the vagus nerve which facilitates digestion.

Plumbago

grumbleguts Rookie
grumbleguts
Posted
  • Author
3 hours ago, plumbago said:

I would advise you checking with your doctor to see if you can get B vitamin levels checked. Just because metformin - a highly useful drug - can cause B vitamin deficiency doesn't mean it will or does in you specific case. If you have celiac disease, you may have malabsorption of those vitamins because of it.

Also, as you know as someone with type 2 diabetes, gastroparesis could occur due to some nerve impairment of the vagus nerve which facilitates digestion.

Plumbago

Thank you. I will indeed have a word with my doc. nobody has ever spoken to me aboutthis before. the slow transit has been will me all my life since birth.  Lovely flower by the way. 

CJolly Newbie
CJolly
Posted
On 3/16/2022 at 10:16 AM, trents said:

I don't think that is the mechanism involved in generating celiac disease. It's not the slow transit that is the issue. It is the immune system misinterpreting gluten as an invader. See my previous post above. So, the real problem is that something in the immune system is haywire that causes it to mistakenly identify gluten as harmful.

By the way, the biopsies of your stomach may have been triggered by your anemia. There is a kind of anemia known as "pernicious anemia." With pernicious anemia, there is an autoimmune attack of the parietal cells that line the stomach. The parietal cells produce an enzyme know as "intrinsic factor" which is necessary for the absorption of B12, which in turn is necessary for the absorption of iron from our diet. And so, the result is iron deficiency anemia. One way to compensate for that is B12 injections. We have also discovered that large doses of B12 orally can also work as there is a secondary, less efficient pathway for B12 absorption by the body.

I have a very high WBC, over 13K for over a year now, with the symptoms of low Vit. D, B12, and weight loss, diarrhea etc... I am curious if others with celiac also have high WBC because of the inflammation. Thanks so much!

knitty kitty Grand Master
knitty kitty
Posted
4 hours ago, grumbleguts said:

Sorry to bother you again but would a problem with three different types of benign tumours i have had also be caused by a sightly deranged auto immune system? . No one else in my immediate family of parents and 8 siblings have ever had the health problems i have had?

I found this article....

Celiac Disease Associated with a Benign Granulomatous Mass Demonstrating Self-Regression after Initiation of a Gluten-Free Diet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5624261/

"...celiac disease can also be associated with benign small bowel thickening and reactive lymphadenopathy. These reactive changes do not always represent malignancy and often regress after the institution of a gluten-free diet (GFD) as the inciting antigen is removed."

 

trents Grand Master
trents
Posted
(edited)
1 hour ago, CJolly said:

I have a very high WBC, over 13K for over a year now, with the symptoms of low Vit. D, B12, and weight loss, diarrhea etc... I am curious if others with celiac also have high WBC because of the inflammation. Thanks so much!

That I am aware of, high WBC is not a typical symptom associated with celiac disease. But your other symptoms are classic for either celiac disease or NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) which is 10x more common than celiac disease. There is no diagnostic test for NCGS. celiac disease must first be ruled out. Sounds like you need to be tested for celiac disease.

Edited by trents
grumbleguts Rookie
grumbleguts
Posted
  • Author
1 hour ago, knitty kitty said:

I found this article....

Celiac Disease Associated with a Benign Granulomatous Mass Demonstrating Self-Regression after Initiation of a Gluten-Free Diet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5624261/

"...celiac disease can also be associated with benign small bowel thickening and reactive lymphadenopathy. These reactive changes do not always represent malignancy and often regress after the institution of a gluten-free diet (GFD) as the inciting antigen is removed."

 

One was in My stomach, one in womb and bilateral in latisimus dorssi. all having been exised. So  not applicable... really. Thank you.

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CJolly Newbie
CJolly
Posted
7 hours ago, trents said:

That I am aware of, high WBC is not a typical symptom associated with celiac disease. But your other symptoms are classic for either celiac disease or NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) which is 10x more common than celiac disease. There is no diagnostic test for NCGS. celiac disease must first be ruled out. Sounds like you need to be tested for celiac disease.

Thanks so much. This is all new to me. Such great knowledge on this website. 

plumbago Experienced
plumbago
Posted
8 hours ago, CJolly said:

I have a very high WBC, over 13K for over a year now, with the symptoms of low Vit. D, B12, and weight loss, diarrhea etc... I am curious if others with celiac also have high WBC because of the inflammation. Thanks so much!

Hi,

I have not had high WBC on a routine blood test. Not to say I never ever have had elevated WBCs, but during my celiac disease testing phase, my WBC were never elevated. What was elevated, was what was found on endoscopy: intra-epithelial lymphocytes (IELS), in my small intestines.

Of course, I've had low D - something that is practically epidemic in the modern world, regardless of Celiac status and B12, and yes, the diarrhea.

Plumbago

Wheatwacked Veteran
Wheatwacked
Posted

though the Power of the Internet:

300 Signs and Symptoms of Celiac Disease (adults and children)

Here is a list of some essential vitamins and minerals. image.png.01574952b901095b13a2b2e3577dc2f7.pngVitaminRDA

Wheatwacked Veteran
Wheatwacked
Posted
On 3/17/2022 at 8:40 AM, grumbleguts said:

I had a tumour that resulted in a partial gastrectomy

If you've had a partial gastrectomy, you may be able to get enough vitamins and minerals from your diet by eating foods that are high in nutrients – in particular, foods high in iron, calcium, and vitamins C and D.     https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gastrectomy/recovery/

Funny that article by the NHS does not mention B12.  I understand the no oral B12 is because the gastrectomy reduces absorbtion and injection guarantees that you get enough. But what of the others? Vitamin C, Zinc and others are essential to fighting infection.

Many of the deficiencies from celiac disease intersect with gastrectomy. Which came first? Does not matter at this point.

Post-Gastrectomy: Managing  the Nutrition Fall-Out

 

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    • Zuma888
      Hypothetical question about antibodies

      By Zuma888 · Posted

      Thank you so much.
    • knitty kitty
      Hypothetical question about antibodies

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      You have one gene for Celiac.  You have a second autoimmune disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is frequently found at a higher rate with Celiac.  HLA genes carry autoimmune disease genes like Celiac and Hashimoto's and diabetes and others.   You have Celiac symptoms of reacting after gluten.  You said "I am however still suffering from the effects of the gluten challenge (food sensitivities, slight brain fog, weird stool, fatigue, swollen thyroid, bodyaches)."  And your anti-thyroid antibodies increase after gluten exposure.  While tTg IgA does not directly attack the thyroid, gluten exposure does trigger the  immune system to produce antibodies against the thyroid in genetically predisposed individuals.  You did not eat sufficient gluten (10 grams of gluten per day for two weeks minimum) to raise the autoimmune antibodies to the point they can be measured in the blood, so your blood tests may well be inaccurate.  You could choose to continue the gluten challenge of 10 grams a day for at least two weeks and get retested.   At the very least, you know that gluten is harmful to your thyroid, and because you are genetically predisposed to Celiac disease, a strict gluten free diet would be beneficial for your overall health.  
    • Zuma888
      Hypothetical question about antibodies

      By Zuma888 · Posted

      Thanks @Scott Adams! I guess my question now is: do the celiacs who can get away with regular contamination without villi damage as you mentioned have to be strict about cross-contamination ? 
    • Zuma888
      Hypothetical question about antibodies

      By Zuma888 · Posted

      Thank you very much @knitty kitty! I'm glad you brought up the point about histamine. I have been taking an antihistamine after meals where I don't feel so good and never knew why it helped so much. At first I thought I might have a food allergy, but I recently did a food allergy test and I actually have ZERO food allergies. Regarding your last point about the stages of grief, are you saying it's likely that I have celiac? I have Hashimoto's BTW and I know for sure that gluten causes an autoimmune response to my thyroid as my anti-TPO and anti-Tg go up and my throat feels swollen. Could the symptoms be due to that autoimmune response?
    • knitty kitty
      Hypothetical question about antibodies

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      @Zuma888, The antibodies produced in response to gluten are made in the intestines.  When the body is provoked sufficiently, the antibodies overflow out of the intestines and into the blood stream.  Once in the blood stream, the antibodies can be measured with tTg IgA tests.  Three grams of gluten per day for two weeks minimum is enough gluten to make you feel the symptoms of having been glutened, but the antibodies are not in sufficient quantity to be measured in the blood. Ten grams of gluten per day for a minimum of two weeks is required to get the anti gluten antibodies at a high enough level in the blood stream to be measured by tTg IgA tests. So, no, occasional cross contamination or (heaven forbid) intentional cheat days will not be sufficient for tTg IgA testing.  You will still be making antibodies which will still be causing inflammation and damage to the intestines and body.  Histamine is released as part of the immune response to gluten.  High histamine levels lead to food sensitivities, brain fog, and body aches.   The damage done to the gastrointestinal tract affects the absorption of essential vitamins and minerals.  Malabsorption of fats can cause changes in stools.  Insufficient absorption of vitamins and minerals can cause damage to other organs like the thyroid if it can't get enough Selenium, iodine, iron, zinc, and Thiamine.  Brain fog and fatigue can be caused by low Thiamine and other B Complex vitamins.  Vitamin D is needed to regulate the immune system.  One gene is all that's needed to develop Celiac disease.  I know a Celiac diagnosis is a change that can be difficult to get your head around.  Many people go through the five stages of grief.  One stage is "bargaining".  Sounds like you're stuck there.  Every little cheat counts to your detriment.  But sticking to a gluten free diet, makes every meal a success.   Read the comments below the article... Best wishes!  Keep us posted on your progress!
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